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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Apr 2009 : 05:38:25
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Realmslore shows us that people in Faerūn don't make a deliberate choice about who to worship, often don't have a conscious 'patron' deity at all, don't see religion either in monolatristic terms or in such selfish, personal ones.
It's not unorthodox or uncommon; many characters are known to favour two or three deities approximately equally. Mages often worship Mystra alongside another primary god.
Power of Faerūn clarifies that:- 'Most folk in Faerūn embrace (or drift into) primary worship of one deity above -- even if only slightly above -- all others.' Except for priests, the distinction between your most-worshipped god and your second-most-worshipped god is only quantitative, not qualitative, and not everyone sees their most-worshipped god as their 'patron'. The FRCS's emphasis on patrons is a rules artefact. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 06:34:16
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Thanks Sage.. But in this cases, when they die, what will happen with their souls?
My next question:
If there is another planet at the primary plane like Abeir-Toril, which gods would rule there? Will that planet have the same gods? Or depends to whom they pray?
I think someday, my doubts will end... 'Til there, may I continue questioning? |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 07:27:34
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
My next question:
If there is another planet at the primary plane like Abeir-Toril, which gods would rule there? Will that planet have the same gods? Or depends to whom they pray?
This needs more of a clarification to me. :) Plus it depends on which cosmology you are using. In 1e and 2e, all the settings were within one cosmology. FR, or Realmspace, was just one of many solar systems/crystal spheres. So, each solar system had their own deities but some deities were multisphereic, like the demihuman deities for instance, as are Silvanus, Mielikki, Tyr, Oghma, Tyche, the Mulhorandi and Unther pantheons, and others, since they originally came from Earth or from other crystal spheres.
Most of the Faerun deities are only worshiped within Realmspace, which is the same as the Dragonlance or Greyhawk deities, for instance. However, the demihuman deities are multisphereic, meaning that they are the same deities both in FR and Greyhawk.
In 3e, that all changed and each setting had their own set of deities but they were not the same except for their names. So, there was a Corellon, for instance, in FR but he was not the same Corellon in Greyhawk.
In 4e, I have no idea except it seems Wizards has returned to the one cosmology for all settings, so I'd assume the deities are now multisphereic/planar and single sphereic/planar like they were in 1e/2e's cosmology.
Now, if you are asking if the races on the other planets within Realmspace venerate the deities of Toril, then the answer is that some of the planets within Realmspace do venerate the same deities, depending on which races exist on those planets. Some of the clergy from Toril have spread into space, bringing their deities with them.
My answer to the soul question would be: Either the deities come to an agreement about which deity receives the soul, or they split it so they manage to each receive part of the soul, or it goes to the plane of it's alignment.
There's really never been a canon answer on how FR souls are affected by the afterlife but most lore, and writers, overlook that FR is polytheistic. I'm not blaming them for that though because most of us have used to living in a society that is monotheistic. But this is getting to close to a religion debate, which really doesn't belong on the boards. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 21 Apr 2009 07:57:01 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 07:30:44
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
Thanks Sage.. But in this cases, when they die, what will happen with their souls?
My next question:
If there is another planet at the primary plane like Abeir-Toril, which gods would rule there? Will that planet have the same gods? Or depends to whom they pray?
I think someday, my doubts will end... 'Til there, may I continue questioning?
This reply comes from 2nd Edition, so it may no longer be valid, the prime material plane was subdivided into solar systems, each encased in a crystal sphere (TSR/WotC's other settings were each in their separate crystal sphere - Dragonlance, Greyhawk, etc.). Each crystal sphere had its own pantheon of gods (although one god could, in theory be part of several pantheons, and be worshipped in several worlds, it did not happen in the separate campaign worlds, although it was more common in the crossover campaign settings - Spelljammer and Planescape).
So, within Abeir-Toril's solar system, the same pantheon would be present. Of course, when 3rd edition came along, the cosmology was modified, and the above may no longer apply. |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 07:34:51
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You've answered well Kuje... That was exactly my question and the answer that I was expecting.
But...
Which ones are single sphereic/planar? Those who aren't at Greyhawk, Earth, etc?
And why some are multisphereic, and some not? |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 07:43:15
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
You've answered well Kuje... That was exactly my question and the answer that I was expecting.
But...
Which ones are single sphereic/planar? Those who aren't at Greyhawk, Earth, etc?
And why some are multisphereic, and some not?
There's to many to list about which are and aren't but the easiest way to list them is if they are setting specific, like most of the FR deities are, except if they came from Earth, then they are single sphereic. The demihuman deities are not because TSR basically decided that the demihuman deities are venerated in most settings, except where they aren't. Like in Dragonlance for example, all of their deities are single sphereic because they are only venerated in Dragonlance and none of the deities of the other settings are venerate there.
But at least 95% of the FR deities are single sphereic, again, except for the demihuman deities and those that came from Earth. Oh, I forgot add Loviatar to that multisphereic list. I knew there was one I was forgetting.
Or another way to think of a list is that if the deities are from the pantheons of Earth, then they are almost 100% multisphereic while deities from different campaign settings are almost 100% single solar system deities. Unless, again, they found worshipers in other solar systems, or are deities venerated by demihumans, humanoids, and other nonhuman races. But, of course, there are exceptions to this, like in Dragonlance. I know, I keep saying that but it's a complicated question. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 21 Apr 2009 07:49:34 |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 08:09:40
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quote:
Unless, again, they found worshipers in other solar systems, or are deities venerated by demihumans, humanoids, and other nonhuman races.
Well..
Lolth, Corelon and Gruumsh enter on this case?
So i got it!
But even so.. If a character of Dragonlance goes to the Plane of Shadows... He could find Mask or Shar there? "The Plane of Shadows" aren't an only-FR plane, right?
I have never read DragonLance, but if there's a god of the Shadows, could he be at this plane to? Or there is a similar plane for each setting/planet/world/crystal sphere? |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 08:13:22
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At the Time of Trouble, what happened to those multi-sphereic gods on those other settings?
(Well.. Now I think I pushed toooo hard) |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 08:20:46
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
At the Time of Trouble, what happened to those multi-sphereic gods on those other settings?
(Well.. Now I think I pushed toooo hard)
Actually, that's a good question. I have forgotten the answer to that one and am curious myself. Generally they said as little as possible about the non-human deity's activities during the time of trouble, but how did they explain gods like Tyr and Mielikki again? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 08:31:10
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
But even so.. If a character of Dragonlance goes to the Plane of Shadows... He could find Mask or Shar there? "The Plane of Shadows" aren't an only-FR plane, right?
I have never read DragonLance, but if there's a god of the Shadows, could he be at this plane to? Or there is a similar plane for each setting/planet/world/crystal sphere?
Yes, if you left Dlance's solar system, again, depending on which cosmology you are using, you could find the other deities of the other settings, and Earth, on the different planes. In 3e, this wouldn't happen because each setting had their own planes. Just like there was different Corellon's, there was different planes but they shared the same names.
Hells, for that matter in 3e FR had at least four different Astral Planes. One to Faerun. One to Maztica. One to Kara-tur. And one to Zakhara. But Zakhara's and Faerun's Astral's are connected to each other because of the elemental deities, since the elemental deities are venerated in both Faerun and Zakhara. However, none of these, unlike 1e and 2e, when there was one universal Astral that wrapped around all of the solar systems, connected to the other campaign settings.
As for the ToT's, all the FR deities were cast down to Realmspace and some of the multisphereic deities did die but Ao returned them to life. (I'm thinking Gruumsh was one of them. Edit: No, it was Clanggedin is who I was thinking of.) But this is mostly why only single sphere deities of Toril were killed off. Most of the elven deities ended up on Evermeet. The dwarven deities were with dwarves. Lolth ended up in Menzoberranzan. I forgot where the gnome and halfling deities ended up.
Sage, with some of our help, had written answers to some of these planar questions, which could be found in Section D of:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5109
I can't find the original file on Wizard's site on where the deities went. Edit: Wooly found the original, please see below.
Edit: Speaking of the planes, Sage, did you catch the entry in the Grand Hist about the Outlands? It's -489 on page 43. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 21 Apr 2009 18:46:09 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 14:22:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I can't find the original file on Wizard's site on where the deities went but Tom's file can be found here:
That's one of the ones on my list of handy links, though it's been a while since I've had to use it. 
The Avatar Trilogy: The Gods Walk Toril |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 14:33:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Edit: Speaking of the planes, Sage, did you catch the entry in the Grand Hist about the Outlands? It's -489 on page 43. :)
Yes, yes I did. I recently scoured Grand History when I was re-working the "Planar Changes" section for my Candlekeep FAQ file. I managed to note practically every [I hope] planar reference in the book. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 16:06:50
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As a sidenote on the Plane of Shadows, until 4e's use of the Shadowfel, they were a demi-plane, as in a plane that is tied to a specific setting, and only part of that setting. So Dragonlance and Darksun would each have their own planes of shadow.
Also as the plane of shadow is in each sphere, they are under the domain of the gods of that sphere, so the FR Plane of Shadows would most likely be involved with Shar etc.
Also I believe that if a multi-spheric deity dies in one realm it still exists in its other spheres but can no longer access the sphere in which it was slain. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 16:25:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyr
Also I believe that if a multi-spheric deity dies in one realm it still exists in its other spheres but can no longer access the sphere in which it was slain.
Correct. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 16:40:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyr
So Dragonlance and Darksun would each have their own planes of shadow.
While true, it's important to note that, unlike other campaign settings interpretations of the Plane of Shadow, the Shadow Plane in 3e DRAGONLANCE actually connects more frequently to the Abyss of the Krynnish cosmology, than any other plane. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 18:47:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Edit: Speaking of the planes, Sage, did you catch the entry in the Grand Hist about the Outlands? It's -489 on page 43. :)
Yes, yes I did. I recently scoured Grand History when I was re-working the "Planar Changes" section for my Candlekeep FAQ file. I managed to note practically every [I hope] planar reference in the book.
Nice. :) I saw it the other night when I read through the whole book looking for entries for my time line for my game. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 21:40:28
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| Well.. That's alot of information.. But I think I got it... Thanks. |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 10:59:27
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| does anyone have a complete list of matron baenres still living children.i know theres triel and gromph and quenthel but i cant remember the others. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 12:24:56
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| Jarlaxle, swifty. |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 12:31:59
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There's also Sos'Umptu, who looks after the house chapel. Although can't find anything further on her to state whether she has died.
Otherwise there's those above: Triel, Quenthel, Gromph and Jarlaxle. |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 12:37:40
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| Anyone knows how Triel lost the position to Quenthel? (4ed) |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 12:46:26
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| not sure, its probably somehow tied into her return after war of the spider queen when she became head of arach-tinilith. |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 12:49:18
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Yep. I thought about it, I've read WotSQ... That's while I want extra informations.. Don't you get curious too?  |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 12:54:12
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true, but it'll probably come out in one of the dragon articles assuming they decide to peel back the 100 year glaze.
But tbh I only read the campaign guide once, when it first came out and just lost interest so didn't even notice that Quenthel had taken over in 4e. |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 14:00:03
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Anyones knows anything else from Menzoberranzan?
My next question:
Which is the famous war of realms at Toril?
Damara and Vaasa with the witch king?
Thayans Vs Rashemin? |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Eye of Horus-Re
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 16:10:37
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
Anyones knows anything else from Menzoberranzan?
My next question:
Which is the famous war of realms at Toril?
Damara and Vaasa with the witch king?
Thayans Vs Rashemin?
There is a lot of info on Menzoberranzan. What are you looking for? RA's Drizzt series gives a lot of background info. (natural layout, hierarchy, etc.)Specifically Homeland.
There are a lot of famous wars. There is a lot of info on the Elven Crown Wars to be found. Thats what immidiately comes to mind for me. |
Long live 1384 and that which came before....!!! |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 16:35:33
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yeah, famous wars vary by region, so say the Thay vs Resheman war only really is famous around the Eastern Realms.
Though the Crown Wars was probably one of the biggest i think. |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 18:08:58
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quote:
There is a lot of info on Menzoberranzan. What are you looking for? RA's Drizzt series gives a lot of background info. (natural layout, hierarchy, etc.)Specifically Homeland.
I was talking about new infos, something after WotSQ. |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2009 : 18:25:25
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
quote:
There is a lot of info on Menzoberranzan. What are you looking for? RA's Drizzt series gives a lot of background info. (natural layout, hierarchy, etc.)Specifically Homeland.
I was talking about new infos, something after WotSQ.
The Underdark sourcebook contains info about lore after the WotSQ..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Questions for the Answerer
