Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Lathander, Amaunator, and the Risen Sun 'Heresy'
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 6

Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  07:37:35  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Well, I assume some don't know the story, so here are the basics:

The Risen Sun heresy is the belief that the time of Lathander's transformation is nigh and Amaunator is about to return. The Brotherhood of the Glorious Sun has long existed within the church of Lathander, tolerated by other followers of the Morninglord and preaching that Lathander is the reincarnated form of Amaunator. Believers of the Risen Sun take this one step further into heresy.
Sunlord Daelegoth Orndeir, the leader of the Brotherhood, has embraced the Risen Sun heresy and since 1374 DR has sought to make it the core belief system of those faithful to Lathander. He has accomplished this by recruit converts to the faith of Amaunator through preaching and performing miracles.
On Midsummer of 1374 DR he performed a miracle, creating a second sun over the city of Elversult that never sets, viewable from 150 miles away. Converts flocked to the city in droves while the church of Lathander pondered on what to do. Sometime over the next century, Amaunator replaced Lathander just as Daelegoth predicted.

So, supposedbly, the beleif of the Risen Sun heresy, that Amaunator would replace Lathander came true. It was a prophecy, and should have happened.
But what if that isn't what really happened? What if Amaunator replaced Lathander, simply because all of Lathander's beleivers started beleiving he had given his power to Amaunator? We know gods can lose their power if they lose their followers. So what if it was simply the effect of people beginning to beleive in Amaunator rather than Lathander? Kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. 'We know Amaunator replaces Lathander, so we now have to pray to Amaunator'. Somewhat like the Christian crisis towards 1000, beleiving the world was ending?
This would mean, of course, that Lathander and Amaunator are separate deities, and that Lathander still exists, just like Amaunator did.
Any thoughts?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."

sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1742 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  09:22:30  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aumanator and Lathander are one and the same,LAthander is the Lord of the DAwn, and Amuanator is the Lord of the Noon Day Sun.

and by the noon day sun stop spreading more heresies , we have enough already.

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  09:30:19  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's the Official version of 4e, or course. And that's exactly what I'm arguing about: There is another, perfectly logical explanation.
Besides, I find it suspicious that the same god was worshipped as two different aspects at the same time. How come there was still worship of Lathander after Daelegoth cast his miracle? Shouldn't it have shown everybody that the transition hapened?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
Go to Top of Page

Rabiesbunny
Learned Scribe

USA
93 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  12:33:06  Show Profile  Visit Rabiesbunny's Homepage  Send Rabiesbunny an AOL message Send Rabiesbunny a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I LOVE the risen sun heresy! I had a worshiper who went one further; since Myrkul use to be dusk, she was convinced that now Bhaal was waiting to be resurrected, and was going to show as the deity of dusk beside Lathander's light, since in 3rd edition there was ONLY Lathander.

In regards to 4th edition, that's just it. This is one of the only things that makes sense. Back when Myrkul was dusk, and Amaunautor was high noon, they were separate gods but seen as part of the same whole. If Amaunautor took his place beside Lathander, both would still be worshipped because neither would subsume the other's church by force.

In other words, people will still believe in Lathander, thusly, he still has worshipers and still exists as Lathander.

"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god."

Edited by - Rabiesbunny on 26 Mar 2009 12:33:47
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26523 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  13:28:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny


In regards to 4th edition, that's just it. This is one of the only things that makes sense.


I disagree. Putting aside the fact that I hate the idea of the tripartite sun deity, I don't think that 100 years is long enough to transition from being a "young, vigorous deity" to an entirely different one. If Lathander was still young despite having been around for centuries, then the transition should have taken much longer -- several centuries, at least.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  14:07:26  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It seems your worshipper was a beleiver of the 'Three Suns heresy'.

Wooly, I understand your objection to the Three Suns heresy - I never felt good with it either. I never understood how Lathander, Amaunator, and Myrkul could be together. But what about my theory? If you hate the idea of a tripartite sun deity, what about a dual-part sun deity? Because that's basically what the official version claims. I'm suggesting that what happened was a shift of worshippers over a period of about 20-50 years, causing the disappearence of Lathander, as any who prayed or beleived in him beleived they were praying or beleiving in Amaunator.

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
Go to Top of Page

Rabiesbunny
Learned Scribe

USA
93 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  14:39:27  Show Profile  Visit Rabiesbunny's Homepage  Send Rabiesbunny an AOL message Send Rabiesbunny a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

[quote]

I disagree. Putting aside the fact that I hate the idea of the tripartite sun deity, I don't think that 100 years is long enough to transition from being a "young, vigorous deity" to an entirely different one. If Lathander was still young despite having been around for centuries, then the transition should have taken much longer -- several centuries, at least.



Well, I certainly am not the biggest fan of it. It basically thumbed it's nose at all established lore, but then, so did most of 4th edition. :(
It's just one of the things I can see a lot better. Certainly more than "Banehold" and Asmodeus as a deity.

"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god."
Go to Top of Page

Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  15:22:18  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm with Wooly--I think this plotline was done in a wonky and half-baked fashion.

And, I liked Lathander and saw no reason for him to be replaced by Amaunator.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 26 Mar 2009 15:22:38
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26523 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  15:44:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the tripartite thing is not a 4E development -- that idea's been around for a while.

Part of the reason I don't like it is because we don't have anything that corresponds to it for the moon. The moon has phases, but only one deity.

Another thing I dislike about it is that to me, there's just not enough about the sun to divide it among three separate deities. Not only that, but we have morning, noon, and dusk every day -- so why only one of those deities at a time? (Note: I regard Lathander as being more about rebirth and renewal, with him covering dawn because of its association with those things -- not him covering them because they tie to dawn. I'm cool with dawn as an aspect, because it's quite symbolic.)

Lastly, I really like Lathander -- he's one of my fave good-aligned deities. So him changing into anything else is not good, for me.

All that aside... As I said, Lathander has always been described as acting young -- impulsive, brash, eternally optimistic. He's the teenager who has had a good life, has the whole world in front of him, and who knows he'll never get old. Considering that gods are immortal, I don't see that a century is enough time for him to turn into the harsh but fair, letter of the law, lawful neutral Amaunator. A millenium, maybe, but not a century.

So basically, it's not that I dislike it because of 4E -- I dislike that it's an idea I find unnecessary and undesirable, happening in an ubelievably short time.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  18:06:29  Show Profile  Visit Knight of the Gate's Homepage  Send Knight of the Gate a Yahoo! Message Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've always felt that the risen Sun Heresy has...potential. I like the idea that at certain points in Faerunian history, the Sun god changes aspects: No doubt in reaction to the relative conservativism/liberalism of his followers. I see it as an extension of that quip from Twain 'God created man in his image; and man, being a gentleman, returned the favor.'
Having said that, I have two observations: 1) IIRC, the two aren't actually the same deity according to canon, Menelvagor- I read somewhere ( I don't recall where right now, and am AFB) that Amaunator was floating in the Astral, almost dead, and LEoF states that he dies from lack of worshippers b/c the Netherese blamed him for not averting the Fall and 2) Even if they ARE the same being (which I prefer), considering that Lathander answered the prayers of Amaunator's faithful for all those years, I'm willing to bet that A would answer the prayers of those belonging to the 'Morning Sun Heresy',so you could still play a cleric of Lathander. Which, from a gameply aspect, is all that really matters.
Separately, I always assumed that the Dawn Cataclysm was Lathander's attempt to bring Amaunator and himself to power simultaneously, in the same 'body' i.e., to combine the power of two greater powers as one.
O, and Rabiesbunny, why would Bhaal be the dusk aspect? What's wrong with Kelemvor?

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco

Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 26 Mar 2009 18:07:49
Go to Top of Page

Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe

USA
387 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  22:53:15  Show Profile  Visit Nerfed2Hell's Homepage Send Nerfed2Hell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like these kind of herecies... but only as that: herecy. I'd really prefer it if they didn't start coming true because worshippers made it true.

Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile.
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31260 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  22:58:06  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to Eric Boyd, the sun god is a tripartite deity with three aspects including a Dawn, Midday, and a Dusk aspect. He has described the tripartite sun god as something like a 4-sided die revolving on a lazy susan. If you are looking edge on, you can usually see two faces of the die at any given time, but never all three at once. And for brief instances every third of a revolution you can only see one face for a moment.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26523 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2009 :  23:41:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

According to Eric Boyd, the sun god is a tripartite deity with three aspects including a Dawn, Midday, and a Dusk aspect. He has described the tripartite sun god as something like a 4-sided die revolving on a lazy susan. If you are looking edge on, you can usually see two faces of the die at any given time, but never all three at once. And for brief instances every third of a revolution you can only see one face for a moment.




But that doesn't seem to be what we have in 4E. We went from one to one, without any two at once.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1051 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  00:08:15  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Part of the reason I don't like it is because we don't have anything that corresponds to it for the moon. The moon has phases, but only one deity.


Not sure why the moon should have anything to do with the 3 sun god deities (like comparing apples with oranges?)

Anyhoo you do have two aspects of the moon, Selune (full and bright), and Shar (new and dark); (with Mystra/Mystral being the third of that group by being 'born of both')

Re the Dusk God of the sun cycle - I have always assumed Jergal rather than Myrkul. He took a 'back seat' when Myrkul arose to godhood, seems a much more sensible option to have Jergal as dusk, as the dawn/day are in ascendency at the moment and he is in 'shadow'.

I really really really like the three sun god idea - it adds loads of roleplaying possibilities IMHO. Now, whether I like how it was done (Lathander into Amaunator) is another matter entirely....

Just my thoughts

Damian


So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31260 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  00:10:37  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

According to Eric Boyd, the sun god is a tripartite deity with three aspects including a Dawn, Midday, and a Dusk aspect. He has described the tripartite sun god as something like a 4-sided die revolving on a lazy susan. If you are looking edge on, you can usually see two faces of the die at any given time, but never all three at once. And for brief instances every third of a revolution you can only see one face for a moment.




But that doesn't seem to be what we have in 4E. We went from one to one, without any two at once.

It's a shame that Eric didn't have the opportunity to follow through with this kinda material.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1051 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  00:20:57  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It's a shame that Eric didn't have the opportunity to follow through with this kinda material.



I concur entirely Sage - too much good work missed and sitting gathering cyber dust on a hard drive (need to prod George some more to see if he wants to brush some dust off?)

Go here for Eric's thoughts on the tripartite sun god.

And here and here for more thoughts on the 3 phases

Cheers

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005

Edited by - crazedventurers on 27 Mar 2009 00:33:11
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26523 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  00:51:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Part of the reason I don't like it is because we don't have anything that corresponds to it for the moon. The moon has phases, but only one deity.


Not sure why the moon should have anything to do with the 3 sun god deities (like comparing apples with oranges?)

Anyhoo you do have two aspects of the moon, Selune (full and bright), and Shar (new and dark); (with Mystra/Mystral being the third of that group by being 'born of both')



Well, the moon goes thru like four or five phases, depending on how you look at it... But there's only one deity for it, whether it's full, half, waxing, waning, or new. Shar is darkness; she's not the new moon.

So if one celestial body is considered to have phases and thus need a different deity for each one, why not the other celestial body that has multiple phases?

Besides, I personally don't think that times of day -- other than day and night -- are distinct enough to mandate coverage by a deity. And if they are, why only three? What about midmorning? What about afternoon?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1051 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  01:11:42  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Shar is darkness; she's not the new moon.


From the OGBS:

Shar: Mistress of the Night; Goddess of Darkness, Night, Loss, Forgetfulness.
"Shar battles continually with Selune, slaying her often (i.e. every new moon)"

I have always seen Shar as the new moon, compared to Selunes full moon.

YMMV of course

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26523 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  01:18:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Shar is darkness; she's not the new moon.


From the OGBS:

Shar: Mistress of the Night; Goddess of Darkness, Night, Loss, Forgetfulness.
"Shar battles continually with Selune, slaying her often (i.e. every new moon)"

I have always seen Shar as the new moon, compared to Selunes full moon.

YMMV of course

Damian



Shar doesn't gain power from the new moon -- she gains power from the absence of the moon. Not the same thing.

And even if it was, there's still no one covering the half moon, the waxing moon, or the waning moon.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1051 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  01:59:35  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:

Shar doesn't gain power from the new moon -- she gains power from the absence of the moon. Not the same thing.

And even if it was, there's still no one covering the half moon, the waxing moon, or the waning moon.


Is this a matter of perspective? The OGBS seems very clear to me ("she slays every new moon").

IIRC From the AD&D comic, Luna (Selune) managed to defeat Shar with The Staff of the Moon (or whatever it was called) and I am sure it had 4 moon phases as the headpiece of the Staff (1/4, 1/4 1/2 and full I think), which suggests to me that Selune covers all aspects of the Moon except the new (dark) moon.

Cheers

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005

Edited by - crazedventurers on 27 Mar 2009 02:02:09
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26523 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  02:16:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers

quote:

Shar doesn't gain power from the new moon -- she gains power from the absence of the moon. Not the same thing.

And even if it was, there's still no one covering the half moon, the waxing moon, or the waning moon.


Is this a matter of perspective? The OGBS seems very clear to me ("she slays every new moon").


That doesn't -- or even imply -- that she gains any power from the new moon. Since the moon is not visible, it makes sense that the moon deity is going to be at her weakest.

quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers

IIRC From the AD&D comic, Luna (Selune) managed to defeat Shar with The Staff of the Moon (or whatever it was called) and I am sure it had 4 moon phases as the headpiece of the Staff (1/4, 1/4 1/2 and full I think), which suggests to me that Selune covers all aspects of the Moon except the new (dark) moon.




That would represent the visible part of the moon.

Either way, it backs up my earlier point -- one moon deity covering multiple phases of the moon. So why three sun deities?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7887 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  02:50:07  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has to agree with Wooly here, I've never seen Shar as a goddess of the moon. That's Selune all the way. Shar, to me, has always just been about the night and darkness.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
11344 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  04:07:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IMG, I gave Shar her own moon.

Its black, and has a purple corona... cause ya' know... thats just cool.

Oh... and on the nights of a full 'Bad Moon', natural Lycanthropes CANNOT change forms...

Just to be different.


The World of Ark - Roleplay in the Age of Legends!
Red Aegis - One of the most innovative RPG concept in years!

"Maps I'll find for you both old and rare. Maps will I seek for you of lands both dark and fair."



Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2009 04:08:00
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31260 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  04:53:41  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

Has to agree with Wooly here, I've never seen Shar as a goddess of the moon. That's Selune all the way. Shar, to me, has always just been about the night and darkness.

Agreed.

After all, the New Moon Pact of Selûnite lycanthropes oppose Shar and her dark agents. 'Twould be somewhat difficult to explain this if Shar also represented an aspect of the moon itself.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

BlackAce
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
337 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  05:22:52  Show Profile Send BlackAce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I made up some lore on this by expanding on the Shar/Selune thing.

Basically, (in Netherese lore) Amaunator was the sun god. Shar attempts to snuff him out by cloaking him in darkness. Selune tries to stop her sister by tearing off a big piece of her essence and hurling it at Shar. Shar's dark mantle is destroyed, Mystryl is born from the chaos and the freed Amaunator is reborn as Lathander.

The philosophy I put behind it is that Amaunator represents life, Shar represents death (or despair); Shar being the night swallowing the sun, while Selune represents hope (waxing and waning but always leaving a sliver) and Lathander; the dawn, represents rebirth or redemption. Mystryl represents determination or the strife of two opposing forces. (My Mystra is chaotic Neutral, btw.)

It fits nicely with their portfolios.

The best backstories are longer than a sentence and shorter than a page.

Edited by - BlackAce on 27 Mar 2009 05:25:25
Go to Top of Page

Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2009 :  05:40:02  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While this is quite interesting, I don't beleive I've heard many people's opinions on my theory.
And Knight of the Gate: I don't understand what you're saying. Are you agreeing with my theory? Or are you saying it doesn't make sense according to canon?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 6 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2014 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000