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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 06:49:05
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There's this series of books by one of our funny local writers...'THE 1001 Books You Should Read Before...' First is before you surrender your virginity (which I know is a No-No topic here at the 'Keep), then before you raise a dog, followed by before you slaughter a pig or chicken, then before you decide to go to hell ---er, be vegetarian (yes, that's the title, with the '-er'), before you face the altar and say 'I frickin' do,' before you decide to have literally bouncing babies, before you cut your husband's *****, and finally the TOPIC of this thread....
If you were to make your own list of 1001 Books You Should Read Before You DIE for someone or some people, would you include your TOP 3 FR novels in it? What would they be? And most importantly, why?
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 10 Nov 2010 07:53:35
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 08:03:08
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Ooh. Yes, I would. I'd pick Evermeet, Elmisnter: Making of a Mage, and Homeland. Why? All three are pure FR goodness. They are some of the iconic characters/locations/stories, and they are all incredibly well-written, and great fantasy examples, to boot.
Non-FR, I'd pick Dragonquest, The Queen of the Damned, and On a Pale Horse. And a few classics like Dracula, 20,000 Leagues, and The Time Machine. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 11:46:28
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| Azure Bonds and Elfshadow for two, definitely... Maybe Ring of Winter for the third. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 12:43:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ooh. Yes, I would. I'd pick Evermeet, Elmisnter: Making of a Mage, and Homeland. Why? All three are pure FR goodness. They are some of the iconic characters/locations/stories, and they are all incredibly well-written, and great fantasy examples, to boot.
Non-FR, I'd pick Dragonquest, The Queen of the Damned, and On a Pale Horse. And a few classics like Dracula, 20,000 Leagues, and The Time Machine.
I second Elmisnter: The Making of a Mage. It's always a fun experience knowing the beginnings of a great wizard whose daily job is saving the world from extinction.
Unholy is on my list, too. Most often than not, people don't get to choose between good and evil, but rather between what is greater evil, and what is lesser evil. This is a 'good' example of such maxim. Moreover, we get to see how possible it is to set aside differences and animosities for the sole purpose of uniting against something no single individual can hope to face.
Lastly, The Siege. War sometimes doesn't make sense, and is waged for nothing but 'selfish' reasons. But this book in a way disproves that. It justifies how war is a necessary step towards something which may not be good, but the last means to get what is someone's rightful place. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 12 Nov 2010 18:43:44 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 13:56:53
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Realms Novels: Elfshadow, Homeland, Blackstaff (and runner-up: The Simbul's Gift).
Non-Realms works: plenty of those, so I'm just going to shoot the ones that come to mind. In the Fantasy genre: Lord of the Rings, The Shadow Out of Time and At the Mountains of Madness (not books per se, but I feel a bit silly writing "The Collected Works of H.P. Lovecraft"); Elric Of Melniboné (Moorcock), The Great Book of Amber (Zelazny) (all the Amber Chronicles in one volume), Swords of Lankmar (Leiber).
Non-fantasy fiction: The Trial (Kafka), The Count of Monte Cristo (Dumas), Dracula (Stoker).
Non-fiction: The Prince (Macchiavelli), Hitler (Ian Kershaw), Diplomacy (Kissinger). |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 16:13:50
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| Blackstaff and Spellfire |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 21:20:27
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For me: Spellfire, Elfshadow, and Elminster: The Making Of A Mage.
If I get a second three: Cormyr A Novel, Swords of Eveningstar, and a tie between City of Splendors and Elminster Must Die!
Then I'd turn to: Downshadow, Homeland, and City of the Dead.
(And of course my opinion and tastes are right, whereas all others are... )
BB |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 23:56:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
For me: Spellfire, Elfshadow, and Elminster: The Making Of A Mage.
If I get a second three: Cormyr A Novel, Swords of Eveningstar, and a tie between City of Splendors and Elminster Must Die!
Then I'd turn to: Downshadow, Homeland, and City of the Dead.
(And of course my opinion and tastes are right, whereas all others are...)
BB
Heh, there's only one in your list I agree on.  |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe
Canada
161 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2010 : 01:15:37
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Well, different strokes for different folks, dennis.
Blueblade's list is almost identical to my own, except that I'd move Homeland up into thr second trio (actually quartet), and drop City of Splendors down.
And yes, I've read and re-read ALL of the Realms novels published so far. Most of them half a dozen times (with a few "didn't like" exceptions, that I've only re-read the twice).
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2010 : 01:26:31
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I'm not saying his 'choices' are bad. And if it appears so, that's not my intention.
I think I should also include on my list books 1 and 2 of The Haunted Lands trilogy. Great characterization and plot. It speaks of what a Fantasy book should be. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 12 Nov 2010 18:46:01 |
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe
Norway
377 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2010 : 22:28:05
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A difficult choice! The list should be far longer but i'll try to narrow it down to the essentials :)
Homeland. This was the first FR book i read back in 95 or something, and it had a major impact on a youngster :)
Evermeet: Island of Elves. A wonderful read filled with rich FR history, intriguing plots, battle, love, heck, even gods!
Elminster The Making of a Mage. A classic that i'd recommend in a heartbeat.
And if i may be so bold as to suggest a couple more?
Shadowrealm (or any other of Kemp's books)
Elfshadow
Azure Bonds
Cormyr: A Novel |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2010 : 23:37:01
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| It seems like a lot really like Evermeet. How I wish I could have even the slightest inclination to read it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 07:33:24
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| Evermeet: Island of Elves, Last Mythal Trilogy, Lady Penitent Trilogy, & War of the Spider Queen Series. Great stuff on the elves. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 11:07:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
You really should dennis. Even if you don't care much for elves, it's a great book. Elaine's best, IMO.
I'll have to ponder on it a little more...'Tis a long time (May, I think) since I read and FINISHED a Realms novel. I started Darksvision weeks ago but sadly couldn't find the drive to finish it. I was disappointed. I gave it to a friend instead. And NOW, I'm disappointed. Again. Aware of all the hype since its release, I DID expect Elminster Must Die! to be quite interesting and fun, and maybe prompt me to include it on this list. But I was wrong. I can't say my final evaluation yet as I am only halfway through. Though lacking ample gusto, I will still finish it---if not for sheer enjoyment, at least for knowing some important lore only Ed could deliver. (Incidentally, this book tells the worst joke among all the Realms novels I've read. And that's 'Emperor Manshoon.' I almost dropped the book upon seeing it. No kidding.) |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 12 Nov 2010 18:49:03 |
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Tren of Twilight Tower
Seeker
51 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 14:29:06
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
If you were to make your own list of 1001 Books You Should Read Before You DIE for someone or some people, would you include your TOP 3 FR novels in it?
Yes.
quote:
What would they be?
Hm, that is a question that has no easy answer. It feels like heresy when trying to separate one, or few, FR novel(s) out of many...
Would definitely need to think more about it. From this point of view, I believe that Annotated Elminster would be one-of-three.
Please note that even in the case of Annotated Elminster, I would like to read it once more before making this judgment. It has been some time since I last read it.
quote:
And most importantly, why?
There are few, very biased, reasons:
- First, it came from Ed.
- Second, it gives a reader insight of how, in my biased mind, the mightiest mage in realms came to be.
- Third, it provides a good fill on what FR setting and atmosphere is alike - now, please take this comment with a grain of salt as, in my mind, there is no such a thing as universal rule regarding FR environment and atmosphere. Every corner of FR is/should-be unique in its own way.
- Fourth, it contains a healthy portion of lore.
Cheers,
Tren |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 15:11:16
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Some books come to mind (Fantasy)
FR :Evermeet (its the Elven bible), Elminster:Making of a mage, Homeland, Elfshadow, Greenwood's and Cunnigham's books in general
non FR :Dune , the Night Angel trilogy (yeah all three they just rock) |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 15:12:22
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Heh. I rather suspected you'd sour on ELMINSTER MUST DIE! when you hit the Manshoon scenes, dennis.
If it makes you feel any better, all of Manshoon's vainglorious boasting and preening is due in large part to this (I'm quoting Ed here):
The Simbul is the most visibly insane character in the book (the barking, drooling, babbling of slurred nonsense), and we already know El's sanity is long gone; he's clinging to apparent normalcy by the tips of his fingernails. Yet by far the most insane character onstage is Manshoon. We won't see the depths of that until the third of the "New Elminster" books, but the hints are there for all to spot, if they're so inclined.
So saith Ed. Who also commented that "there are much larger deceptions in this book" than Manshoon's facade of sanity. We'll get hints of them in BURY ELMINSTER DEEP, but they won't "burst out" until that third book . . .
love,
THO |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 16:21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Heh. I rather suspected you'd sour on ELMINSTER MUST DIE! when you hit the Manshoon scenes, dennis.
If it makes you feel any better, all of Manshoon's vainglorious boasting and preening is due in large part to this (I'm quoting Ed here):
The Simbul is the most visibly insane character in the book (the barking, drooling, babbling of slurred nonsense), and we already know El's sanity is long gone; he's clinging to apparent normalcy by the tips of his fingernails. Yet by far the most insane character onstage is Manshoon. We won't see the depths of that until the third of the "New Elminster" books, but the hints are there for all to spot, if they're so inclined.
So saith Ed. Who also commented that "there are much larger deceptions in this book" than Manshoon's facade of sanity. We'll get hints of them in BURY ELMINSTER DEEP, but they won't "burst out" until that third book . . .
love,
THO
Before reading it I knew the cockroach was going to 'flap his rotting wings' (another way of saying would irritate me), so I DID try to prepare my myself mentally. Unfortunately, some things simply beat whatever necessary preparation one has made... What's with the "This time Elminster Aumar, Sage of Shadowdale, you are going down." monologue?! I can't recall any archvillain, or even a minor, insignificant villain, ever saying such a ********, or something remotely similar.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the book---there's nary a Realms novel penned by Ed that I hate (with the potential exception of KoMD; potential because I haven't read it, as I avoid 'knighty' novels as much as I doggedly avoid 'elfy' and 'Manshoony' ones)---but I just hope things were a little bit different; foremost of which is the use of Manshoon as the bad***. Maybe I expected too much from this novel... Considering that it's been quite a very long while since we've seen an Elminster novel (as opposed to the ubiquitous Drizzt), I thought his 'comeback' to the limelight would be delivered with a BANG...Sadly, I experienced a different bang.
You might have noticed I haven't yet mentioned the good things I find in this book. There are, I assure you. But I'll reserve those till I'm done reading. I'm almost done, actually. You can expect a new thread about this book once I finished; I'll throw some questions, and most probably, RANT. Just a little. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 12 Nov 2010 18:58:28 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 18:55:11
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I strongly suspect that THO is hinting that Manshoon's cackling "I am so mighty, and so BAAAAD!" dialogue is because of his insanity, and that there's more to this than meets the eye (remember, before this book, in Ed's ouevre, only Elminster spoke with any hints of our real-world dialogue...because he'd been "here"). Ed's signalling that something's going on that's largely hidden from us.
Me, I think Ed's doing a lot of misdirection here. IS Mystra back? Really? Hmmm....
BB |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2010 : 19:12:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
So what was the joke? I don't remember that...
Emperor and Manshoon shouldn't be used in the same sentence. That's a s**k joke. Unless people now use king and cockroach in the same convoluted sentence.
I need a break from reading this book. I'm afraid I might write a 3,000-word all-rant thread...Guess I'll just resume reading tomorrow, or god-knows-when...I need a break, a cup of coffee---oh, make that seven---and a Karen Miller novel. Good thing I have them all. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 05:54:51
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
So what was the joke? I don't remember that...
Emperor and Manshoon shouldn't be used in the same sentence. That's a s**k joke. Unless people now use king and cockroach in the same convoluted sentence.
I need a break from reading this book. I'm afraid I might write a 3,000-word all-rant thread...Guess I'll just resume reading tomorrow, or god-knows-when...I need a break, a cup of coffee---oh, make that seven---and a Karen Miller novel. Good thing I have them all.
Just because you dislike Manshoon, for unknown and perhaps unknowable reasons, doesn't mean that he's incompetent: Ed (and others) have had to portray him as bumbling and weak for years because of TSR's moral code, or whatever they called it, that involved every bad guy losing every time, as a general thing. Consider his pre-publication resumé, in which he's founded a massive organization of competent (these aren't the novels, remember) ne'er do wells, maintained control of them, and established a theoretical method of immortality that doesn't involve all the inconveniences of lichdom.
He's evil, and a schemer, but never mistake the farcically altered Manshoon you see in older Realms novels for Manshoon, Lord of the Zhentarim. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 06:29:40
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| Once a cockroach, always a cockroach... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 07:07:45
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For me... Evermeet, Elfsong, Realms of Shadow and the Knights of Myth Drannor books.
For Non Realms fantasy, I have far too many to list here. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 07:29:12
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| Hmm, Realms of Shadow...There are a few short stories in that anthology that I really like. Darksword, Too Long In The Dark,, and Trial by Ordeal, which delved deeper into the customs of Netheril. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 07:34:02
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| It's one of the few anthologies where I liked the vast majority of the stories in it and I think that it gives a nice quick look at the Realms as a place where a lot of very different stories can find a home. |
Rants and reviews that interest no one may be found here. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 08:18:37
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Indeed. In fact, it's the only anthology that I bothered to read from cover to cover. In the rest of the anthologies, I read only those written by most of my favorite authors. Heh, in Realms of War I only read Continuum, and in Realms of Magic, just Red Ambition. I'm not into short stories, but Realms of Shadow completely drew me in. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2010 : 15:11:06
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| I'm changing my third choice from Ring of Winter (which I was iffy on, anyway, for the purposes of this list) to Cormyr: A Novel. |
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1001 Books You Should Read Before You DIE
