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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 07:37:35
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Well, I assume some don't know the story, so here are the basics:
The Risen Sun heresy is the belief that the time of Lathander's transformation is nigh and Amaunator is about to return. The Brotherhood of the Glorious Sun has long existed within the church of Lathander, tolerated by other followers of the Morninglord and preaching that Lathander is the reincarnated form of Amaunator. Believers of the Risen Sun take this one step further into heresy.
Sunlord Daelegoth Orndeir, the leader of the Brotherhood, has embraced the Risen Sun heresy and since 1374 DR has sought to make it the core belief system of those faithful to Lathander. He has accomplished this by recruit converts to the faith of Amaunator through preaching and performing miracles.
On Midsummer of 1374 DR he performed a miracle, creating a second sun over the city of Elversult that never sets, viewable from 150 miles away. Converts flocked to the city in droves while the church of Lathander pondered on what to do. Sometime over the next century, Amaunator replaced Lathander just as Daelegoth predicted.
So, supposedbly, the beleif of the Risen Sun heresy, that Amaunator would replace Lathander came true. It was a prophecy, and should have happened.
But what if that isn't what really happened? What if Amaunator replaced Lathander, simply because all of Lathander's beleivers started beleiving he had given his power to Amaunator? We know gods can lose their power if they lose their followers. So what if it was simply the effect of people beginning to beleive in Amaunator rather than Lathander? Kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. 'We know Amaunator replaces Lathander, so we now have to pray to Amaunator'. Somewhat like the Christian crisis towards 1000, beleiving the world was ending?
This would mean, of course, that Lathander and Amaunator are separate deities, and that Lathander still exists, just like Amaunator did.
Any thoughts?
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"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 09:22:30
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Aumanator and Lathander are one and the same,LAthander is the Lord of the DAwn, and Amuanator is the Lord of the Noon Day Sun.
and by the noon day sun stop spreading more heresies , we have enough already. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 09:30:19
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That's the Official version of 4e, or course. And that's exactly what I'm arguing about: There is another, perfectly logical explanation.
Besides, I find it suspicious that the same god was worshipped as two different aspects at the same time. How come there was still worship of Lathander after Daelegoth cast his miracle? Shouldn't it have shown everybody that the transition hapened? |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 12:33:06
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I LOVE the risen sun heresy! I had a worshiper who went one further; since Myrkul use to be dusk, she was convinced that now Bhaal was waiting to be resurrected, and was going to show as the deity of dusk beside Lathander's light, since in 3rd edition there was ONLY Lathander.
In regards to 4th edition, that's just it. This is one of the only things that makes sense. Back when Myrkul was dusk, and Amaunautor was high noon, they were separate gods but seen as part of the same whole. If Amaunautor took his place beside Lathander, both would still be worshipped because neither would subsume the other's church by force.
In other words, people will still believe in Lathander, thusly, he still has worshipers and still exists as Lathander. |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
Edited by - Rabiesbunny on 26 Mar 2009 12:33:47 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 13:28:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Rabiesbunny
In regards to 4th edition, that's just it. This is one of the only things that makes sense.
I disagree. Putting aside the fact that I hate the idea of the tripartite sun deity, I don't think that 100 years is long enough to transition from being a "young, vigorous deity" to an entirely different one. If Lathander was still young despite having been around for centuries, then the transition should have taken much longer -- several centuries, at least. |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 14:07:26
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It seems your worshipper was a beleiver of the 'Three Suns heresy'.
Wooly, I understand your objection to the Three Suns heresy - I never felt good with it either. I never understood how Lathander, Amaunator, and Myrkul could be together. But what about my theory? If you hate the idea of a tripartite sun deity, what about a dual-part sun deity? Because that's basically what the official version claims. I'm suggesting that what happened was a shift of worshippers over a period of about 20-50 years, causing the disappearence of Lathander, as any who prayed or beleived in him beleived they were praying or beleiving in Amaunator. |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 14:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]
I disagree. Putting aside the fact that I hate the idea of the tripartite sun deity, I don't think that 100 years is long enough to transition from being a "young, vigorous deity" to an entirely different one. If Lathander was still young despite having been around for centuries, then the transition should have taken much longer -- several centuries, at least.
Well, I certainly am not the biggest fan of it. It basically thumbed it's nose at all established lore, but then, so did most of 4th edition. :(
It's just one of the things I can see a lot better. Certainly more than "Banehold" and Asmodeus as a deity. |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 15:22:18
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I'm with Wooly--I think this plotline was done in a wonky and half-baked fashion.
And, I liked Lathander and saw no reason for him to be replaced by Amaunator. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 26 Mar 2009 15:22:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 15:44:04
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Well, the tripartite thing is not a 4E development -- that idea's been around for a while.
Part of the reason I don't like it is because we don't have anything that corresponds to it for the moon. The moon has phases, but only one deity.
Another thing I dislike about it is that to me, there's just not enough about the sun to divide it among three separate deities. Not only that, but we have morning, noon, and dusk every day -- so why only one of those deities at a time? (Note: I regard Lathander as being more about rebirth and renewal, with him covering dawn because of its association with those things -- not him covering them because they tie to dawn. I'm cool with dawn as an aspect, because it's quite symbolic.)
Lastly, I really like Lathander -- he's one of my fave good-aligned deities. So him changing into anything else is not good, for me.
All that aside... As I said, Lathander has always been described as acting young -- impulsive, brash, eternally optimistic. He's the teenager who has had a good life, has the whole world in front of him, and who knows he'll never get old. Considering that gods are immortal, I don't see that a century is enough time for him to turn into the harsh but fair, letter of the law, lawful neutral Amaunator. A millenium, maybe, but not a century.
So basically, it's not that I dislike it because of 4E -- I dislike that it's an idea I find unnecessary and undesirable, happening in an ubelievably short time. |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 18:06:29
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I've always felt that the risen Sun Heresy has...potential. I like the idea that at certain points in Faerunian history, the Sun god changes aspects: No doubt in reaction to the relative conservativism/liberalism of his followers. I see it as an extension of that quip from Twain 'God created man in his image; and man, being a gentleman, returned the favor.'
Having said that, I have two observations: 1) IIRC, the two aren't actually the same deity according to canon, Menelvagor- I read somewhere ( I don't recall where right now, and am AFB) that Amaunator was floating in the Astral, almost dead, and LEoF states that he dies from lack of worshippers b/c the Netherese blamed him for not averting the Fall and 2) Even if they ARE the same being (which I prefer), considering that Lathander answered the prayers of Amaunator's faithful for all those years, I'm willing to bet that A would answer the prayers of those belonging to the 'Morning Sun Heresy',so you could still play a cleric of Lathander. Which, from a gameply aspect, is all that really matters.
Separately, I always assumed that the Dawn Cataclysm was Lathander's attempt to bring Amaunator and himself to power simultaneously, in the same 'body' i.e., to combine the power of two greater powers as one.
O, and Rabiesbunny, why would Bhaal be the dusk aspect? What's wrong with Kelemvor?  |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 26 Mar 2009 18:07:49 |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 22:53:15
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| I like these kind of herecies... but only as that: herecy. I'd really prefer it if they didn't start coming true because worshippers made it true. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 22:58:06
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According to Eric Boyd, the sun god is a tripartite deity with three aspects including a Dawn, Midday, and a Dusk aspect. He has described the tripartite sun god as something like a 4-sided die revolving on a lazy susan. If you are looking edge on, you can usually see two faces of the die at any given time, but never all three at once. And for brief instances every third of a revolution you can only see one face for a moment.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 23:41:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
According to Eric Boyd, the sun god is a tripartite deity with three aspects including a Dawn, Midday, and a Dusk aspect. He has described the tripartite sun god as something like a 4-sided die revolving on a lazy susan. If you are looking edge on, you can usually see two faces of the die at any given time, but never all three at once. And for brief instances every third of a revolution you can only see one face for a moment.
But that doesn't seem to be what we have in 4E. We went from one to one, without any two at once. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 00:08:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Part of the reason I don't like it is because we don't have anything that corresponds to it for the moon. The moon has phases, but only one deity.
Not sure why the moon should have anything to do with the 3 sun god deities (like comparing apples with oranges?)
Anyhoo you do have two aspects of the moon, Selune (full and bright), and Shar (new and dark); (with Mystra/Mystral being the third of that group by being 'born of both')
Re the Dusk God of the sun cycle - I have always assumed Jergal rather than Myrkul. He took a 'back seat' when Myrkul arose to godhood, seems a much more sensible option to have Jergal as dusk, as the dawn/day are in ascendency at the moment and he is in 'shadow'.
I really really really like the three sun god idea  - it adds loads of roleplaying possibilities  IMHO. Now, whether I like how it was done (Lathander into Amaunator) is another matter entirely....
Just my thoughts
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 00:10:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
According to Eric Boyd, the sun god is a tripartite deity with three aspects including a Dawn, Midday, and a Dusk aspect. He has described the tripartite sun god as something like a 4-sided die revolving on a lazy susan. If you are looking edge on, you can usually see two faces of the die at any given time, but never all three at once. And for brief instances every third of a revolution you can only see one face for a moment.
But that doesn't seem to be what we have in 4E. We went from one to one, without any two at once.
It's a shame that Eric didn't have the opportunity to follow through with this kinda material. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 00:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It's a shame that Eric didn't have the opportunity to follow through with this kinda material.
I concur entirely Sage - too much good work missed and sitting gathering cyber dust on a hard drive  (need to prod George some more to see if he wants to brush some dust off?)
Go here for Eric's thoughts on the tripartite sun god.
And here and here for more thoughts on the 3 phases
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 27 Mar 2009 00:33:11 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 00:51:15
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Part of the reason I don't like it is because we don't have anything that corresponds to it for the moon. The moon has phases, but only one deity.
Not sure why the moon should have anything to do with the 3 sun god deities (like comparing apples with oranges?)
Anyhoo you do have two aspects of the moon, Selune (full and bright), and Shar (new and dark); (with Mystra/Mystral being the third of that group by being 'born of both')
Well, the moon goes thru like four or five phases, depending on how you look at it... But there's only one deity for it, whether it's full, half, waxing, waning, or new. Shar is darkness; she's not the new moon.
So if one celestial body is considered to have phases and thus need a different deity for each one, why not the other celestial body that has multiple phases?
Besides, I personally don't think that times of day -- other than day and night -- are distinct enough to mandate coverage by a deity. And if they are, why only three? What about midmorning? What about afternoon? |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 01:11:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Shar is darkness; she's not the new moon.
From the OGBS:
Shar: Mistress of the Night; Goddess of Darkness, Night, Loss, Forgetfulness.
"Shar battles continually with Selune, slaying her often (i.e. every new moon)"
I have always seen Shar as the new moon, compared to Selunes full moon.
YMMV of course
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 01:18:31
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Shar is darkness; she's not the new moon.
From the OGBS:
Shar: Mistress of the Night; Goddess of Darkness, Night, Loss, Forgetfulness.
"Shar battles continually with Selune, slaying her often (i.e. every new moon)"
I have always seen Shar as the new moon, compared to Selunes full moon.
YMMV of course
Damian
Shar doesn't gain power from the new moon -- she gains power from the absence of the moon. Not the same thing.
And even if it was, there's still no one covering the half moon, the waxing moon, or the waning moon. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 01:59:35
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quote:
Shar doesn't gain power from the new moon -- she gains power from the absence of the moon. Not the same thing.
And even if it was, there's still no one covering the half moon, the waxing moon, or the waning moon.
Is this a matter of perspective? The OGBS seems very clear to me ("she slays every new moon").
IIRC From the AD&D comic, Luna (Selune) managed to defeat Shar with The Staff of the Moon (or whatever it was called) and I am sure it had 4 moon phases as the headpiece of the Staff (1/4, 1/4 1/2 and full I think), which suggests to me that Selune covers all aspects of the Moon except the new (dark) moon.
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 27 Mar 2009 02:02:09 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 02:16:52
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Shar doesn't gain power from the new moon -- she gains power from the absence of the moon. Not the same thing.
And even if it was, there's still no one covering the half moon, the waxing moon, or the waning moon.
Is this a matter of perspective? The OGBS seems very clear to me ("she slays every new moon").
That doesn't -- or even imply -- that she gains any power from the new moon. Since the moon is not visible, it makes sense that the moon deity is going to be at her weakest.
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
IIRC From the AD&D comic, Luna (Selune) managed to defeat Shar with The Staff of the Moon (or whatever it was called) and I am sure it had 4 moon phases as the headpiece of the Staff (1/4, 1/4 1/2 and full I think), which suggests to me that Selune covers all aspects of the Moon except the new (dark) moon.
That would represent the visible part of the moon.
Either way, it backs up my earlier point -- one moon deity covering multiple phases of the moon. So why three sun deities? |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 02:50:07
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| Has to agree with Wooly here, I've never seen Shar as a goddess of the moon. That's Selune all the way. Shar, to me, has always just been about the night and darkness. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 04:07:02
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IMG, I gave Shar her own moon.
Its black, and has a purple corona... cause ya' know... thats just cool. 
Oh... and on the nights of a full 'Bad Moon', natural Lycanthropes CANNOT change forms...
Just to be different.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Mar 2009 04:08:00 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 04:53:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Has to agree with Wooly here, I've never seen Shar as a goddess of the moon. That's Selune all the way. Shar, to me, has always just been about the night and darkness.
Agreed.
After all, the New Moon Pact of Selûnite lycanthropes oppose Shar and her dark agents. 'Twould be somewhat difficult to explain this if Shar also represented an aspect of the moon itself. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 05:22:52
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I made up some lore on this by expanding on the Shar/Selune thing.
Basically, (in Netherese lore) Amaunator was the sun god. Shar attempts to snuff him out by cloaking him in darkness. Selune tries to stop her sister by tearing off a big piece of her essence and hurling it at Shar. Shar's dark mantle is destroyed, Mystryl is born from the chaos and the freed Amaunator is reborn as Lathander.
The philosophy I put behind it is that Amaunator represents life, Shar represents death (or despair); Shar being the night swallowing the sun, while Selune represents hope (waxing and waning but always leaving a sliver) and Lathander; the dawn, represents rebirth or redemption. Mystryl represents determination or the strife of two opposing forces. (My Mystra is chaotic Neutral, btw.)
It fits nicely with their portfolios. |
Edited by - BlackAce on 27 Mar 2009 05:25:25 |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 05:40:02
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While this is quite interesting, I don't beleive I've heard many people's opinions on my theory.
And Knight of the Gate: I don't understand what you're saying. Are you agreeing with my theory? Or are you saying it doesn't make sense according to canon? |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 10:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Either way, it backs up my earlier point -- one moon deity covering multiple phases of the moon. So why three sun deities?
I think we are back to comparing apples with oranges again.
Why the seven sisters born of Mystra but no seven sisters born of Auril? Just because one aspect of the Realms has multiples doesn't mean another (somewhat similar) aspect must follow suit.
Re Shar and Selune - we will agree to disagree. We are obviously interpreting the god entry from the OGBS differently (just like mortals of Faerun do!  )
To me Selune has always been the bright (visible) face of the moon, whilst Shar has been the non visible dark side of the moon, both theologically and physically (i.e the real moon (Selune) that you can see by standing on Toril and looking up at night). This is similar to Tymora and Beshaba being the two faces of Tyches Coin.
As the moon is brighter more often than it is dark Selune is regarded as the Moon Goddess by most mortals much to Shar's disgust and her ongoing attempts to blot out the light of her sister, so that mortals recognise her as part of the moon is what drives her on. I would say that AO devised this to ensure that Selune did not become all powerful, so he invested some aspect of the moon into Shar to act as a counter to Selune similar to how Mystra's power is distributed between Azuth, the Chosen, The Magister etc. It limits an otherwise powerful Goddess of the Moon and Magic from ruling without anything to check her (plus it keeps Shar busy trying to outdo her sister and wasting lots of time and effort which otherwise might be put to better use destroying the world).
Just my thoughts
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 27 Mar 2009 10:45:23 |
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Rabiesbunny
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 12:51:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Knight of the Gate
O, and Rabiesbunny, why would Bhaal be the dusk aspect? What's wrong with Kelemvor?
He's a dull spoilsport, that's what. xP |
"Then I was right. Jobe has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making his movies. There is no god." |
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Ghost King
Learned Scribe
USA
253 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 13:00:21
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Just to correct one thing: Mystra didn't need the other deities of magic. She was the one and only deity of magic, she just happened to eleviate a few mortals to deities, because she fancied them. Azuth was the First Magister of Magic, so that is why he was raised to become a deity. I forget when and how Savras was raised, but he also had Mystra's favor. Anyways, that is the only correction I see fit to mention.
As for Amaunator and Lanthander, I think they are one in the same, but he just has more than one name. In fact, since Myrkul (sp?) was the god of dusk, I could see him eventually trying to gather up that portfolio. I'm unclear if another deity has that at the moment, don't have my books handy to look it up. But I only know up to about 3.5 anyways, and what gods are still left in 4e.
However, it could be a self fulling prophecy as you say, but maybe Amaunator just renewed his fan base under a different name to keep his followers just under a different guise. Wouldn't be the first time a deity has pretended to be another in the history of Toril.
That is my two cents at least. |
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Iliyan
Acolyte
Croatia
42 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 13:13:41
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I've got a question that is somewhat related to all this. Thing is I can't seem to dig up when exactly Amunuator( sp?) first appeared... It might have a peace of the puzzle as to which came first and how do they intertwine.
First off, I remember that in Baldur's Gate 2 there was the whole temple thing of Amunuator where you fought the shadows and the shadow dragon and the wraith thingie( can't remember exactly any more). Now, this was my first contact with the name, I'm not pulling any strings to BG2 though... it is hardly a reliable source, but I suppose that the deity must have existed somewhere before that for it to be integrated in BG2. Since I highly doubt that it was invented for Bg2.
So, any clues as to when( FR date or/and book in which it was released) Amunuator first appeared? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 13:33:20
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Either way, it backs up my earlier point -- one moon deity covering multiple phases of the moon. So why three sun deities?
I think we are back to comparing apples with oranges again.
It's not at all apples and oranges -- we're talking about two celestial bodies that go thru phases.
quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Re Shar and Selune - we will agree to disagree. We are obviously interpreting the god entry from the OGBS differently (just like mortals of Faerun do! )
I'm not even looking at that entry. I'm looking at all the other lore, including the 2E deity books. Even with that entry in place, it doesn't imply that Shar draws strength from the new moon. As I said, it's only logical that the goddess of the moon isn't as strong when the moon is not at all visible -- and that the goddess of the night is strongest when there's no light in the sky. |
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Lathander, Amaunator, and the Risen Sun 'Heresy'
