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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 20 May 2008 : 14:17:14
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Well...
They did it. 
WotC has gotten rid of their FR forum. If you want to discuss FR, you must now do so over in the 4e boards. Here is the main forums page - they said they were, and they did.
Can you feel the love? 
I guess it's official... the Realms are dead.
Mod Edit: Added "WotC" to the title to keep it clear. 
User Edit: Added "3e" to the title to make it even clearer. 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 May 2008 19:46:11
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 16:49:11
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They ARE cool and Awesome...
until August. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 16:53:03
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With all due respect, Markus, you are exaggerating a bit here.
The FR forums have been reduced to one board, which is in the much larger 4E section. That's less than what a lot of us want, but it's not nothing, as your post seems to imply. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 20 May 2008 16:59:40 |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 17:11:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They ARE cool and Awesome...
until August.
Oh, and by the way, WOTC cannot ruin the old realms. Not for me at least.
they can encourage me not to update my CS, though. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 17:33:03
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I'd just like to step in as a Mod here for a moment.
I know the discussion made by WotC to re-arrange the FR boards will likely generate even deeper feelings of disappointment among many of our scribes here. And while there are some of you who will no doubt feel deeply hurt by this move, I think it's important for us all to realise, and accept, that each of us are entitled to our own opinions about this decision and what it may mean for the future of the Realms. Simply put, some of us may agree with the decision, while others will not.
In the end however, those distinctions really shouldn't matter all that much to us here. This is Candlekeep -- THE Library of Forgotten Realms Lore. First and foremost, we're a happy and healthy community of devoted Realms fans. And I'd like to see it remain as such.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 17:48:36
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Kind of sad thing is this: with many of us "oldtimers" not switching over to 4e, many newcomers asking lore questions here might well receive crickets and tumbleweed instead of answers.
Wizards have successfully divided the fandom with 4e Realms. Not that I don't agree with the change per se, it is the way stuff was explained and all, but you knew I'd say that anyways |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 17:49:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
With all due respect, Markus, you are exaggerating a bit here.
No.
The FR forums have indeed been taken down.
The forum you are referring to is a 4e forum, and is not new. The threads from the FR forum has been moved to the 4e forum - the one that focuses on FR.
They were two seperate things, and now they have been combined, but under the heading of 4e, which clearly indicates the type of conversations WotC is interested in hosting there. There is no longer a seperate place for fans of 1e/2e/3e Realms to go to at WotC.
Everyone is expected to move on to the new setting.
Just because the FR sub-forum is now under the 4e boards I have absolutely NO interest in contributing anything further.
Also, the Forum has been 'down-sized' to be just like all the other dead settings - Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, etc... just one board for everything... and like I said, it already had its own 4e FR community before we got 'lumped in' to them.
A clear message, indeed. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 17:56:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
No.
The FR forums have indeed been taken down.
The forum you are referring to is a 4e forum, and is not new. The threads from the FR forum has been moved to the 4e forum - the one that focuses on FR.
They were two seperate things, and now they have been combined, but under the heading of 4e, which clearly indicates the type of conversations WotC is interested in hosting there.
I still stand by my opinion that your topic post was misleading, especially because of the title. However, I don't think you intended it to be misleading.
Also, it's not like fans of the 4E Realms weren't present at the old boards. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 20 May 2008 18:01:49 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 18:59:10
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| That, and most, if not all, of the old threads just got ported over to the new section, they are still there. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 19:30:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I guess it's official... the Realms are dead.
To me the Wotc started dying.. 
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BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2008 : 19:44:09
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@Rinon - I looked back over my OP, and I couldn't see where it was misleading - I pointed out the fact that the threads were moved.
However, after reviewing, I realize you were referring to the thread title itself, which I will admit was designed to get people's attention - I have since corrected it; sorry for the confusion.
@Hawkins - Yes, as I've just stated, I mentioned the fact that the threads were moved... to 4e Forum.
I reiterate - there is NO FR forum. There is a 4e forum, on which there is an FR board. If you follow the link I provided with my OP, you willl remember that just yesterday there was an entire forum called "The Forgotten Realms" with it's own icon on that page - a picture of Elminster smoking his pipe - which is now gone. Anyone looking for FR info and going to the WotC site must now go through those forums and look for the one and only FR board buried on the 4e forum.
And as both of you have nmentioned, that forum already existed for the 4e people. It is THEIR home, not mine - we are interlopers, if you will.
How is anything I know about in FR - all my hours of reading the 1e/2e/3e books - going to help anyone? My lore has become useless, so there's no reason for me to be there.
I do not begrudge those people their forum - more power to them. They have a right to enjoy their setting, just as I do mine. Thats why I refuse to go there and be all 'negative' - its not productive.
Let them enjoy themselves - if they didn't know about FR before, or thought there was something wrong with it, then they will probably enjoy all of the books that WotC plans to produce for the setting.
Both of them.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2008 : 00:22:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Rinon - I looked back over my OP, and I couldn't see where it was misleading - I pointed out the fact that the threads were moved.
However, after reviewing, I realize you were referring to the thread title itself, which I will admit was designed to get people's attention - I have since corrected it; sorry for the confusion.
Good idea on correcting it, thank you.
quote:
And as both of you have nmentioned, that forum already existed for the 4e people. It is THEIR home, not mine - we are interlopers, if you will.
I don't quite feel that way, at least not yet. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2008 : 18:44:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Kind of sad thing is this: with many of us "oldtimers" not switching over to 4e, many newcomers asking lore questions here might well receive crickets and tumbleweed instead of answers.
Wizards have successfully divided the fandom with 4e Realms. Not that I don't agree with the change per se, it is the way stuff was explained and all, but you knew I'd say that anyways
Aye, it will indeed be an odd time and it will be interesting to see how Candlekeep fares.
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Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2008 : 19:38:56
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I'm surprised that Alaundo hasn't gone out of his way to say this -
I do NOT want the people of Candlekeep treating any 4e FR fans BADLY - this is THE place for Realmslore, whatever the edition, and if someone comes on here expecting an answer, we should still try to be as helpful as we can.
There are bound to be numerous history questions coming up, and I have high hopes that many of the new fans will want to delve deeper into the setting. Also, folks like Brian J. are here, along with Ed himself (through THO), who may actually be able to answer some of those 4e queries.
I would hate for this site to start looking like the current WotC boards, with battlesides drawn - as long as posters are civil, then we should be expected to be civil back. I don't like French food, but I wouldn't be rude to a Frenchman just because he enjoys it.
The negativity I am feeling is aimed at the poor decisions I feel were made by WotC, not any particular group of fans, designers, or authors. And if they truly did make a mistake with this new setting, then the ones who will suffer the most are the ones that made the decision, so there's no need to 'punish' anyone.
Anti-rant over. 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2008 : 20:33:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm surprised that Alaundo hasn't gone out of his way to say this -
I do NOT want the people of Candlekeep treating any 4e FR fans BADLY - this is THE place for Realmslore, whatever the edition, and if someone comes on here expecting an answer, we should still try to be as helpful as we can.
Well, that's a given. And the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct explicitly states "Always be courteous and polite to other members". |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2008 : 23:29:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm surprised that Alaundo hasn't gone out of his way to say this -
I do NOT want the people of Candlekeep treating any 4e FR fans BADLY - this is THE place for Realmslore, whatever the edition, and if someone comes on here expecting an answer, we should still try to be as helpful as we can.
Well, that's a given. And the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct explicitly states "Always be courteous and polite to other members".
Well met
Exactly, Wooly. It is expected that all members follow the Code of Conduct at all time. Views on editions of the Realms doesn't alter Candlekeep's view towards any fans, whichever edition(s) they support.
Furthermore, Candlekeep has no plans to exclude 4e and discussions of ALL editions of FR will be permitted. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 02:48:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm surprised that Alaundo hasn't gone out of his way to say this -
I do NOT want the people of Candlekeep treating any 4e FR fans BADLY - this is THE place for Realmslore, whatever the edition, and if someone comes on here expecting an answer, we should still try to be as helpful as we can.
Well, that's a given. And the Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct explicitly states "Always be courteous and polite to other members".
Well met
Exactly, Wooly. It is expected that all members follow the Code of Conduct at all time. Views on editions of the Realms doesn't alter Candlekeep's view towards any fans, whichever edition(s) they support.
Furthermore, Candlekeep has no plans to exclude 4e and discussions of ALL editions of FR will be permitted.
I hope this is the case Alaundo, because the 4e SUCKS conversations have taken over as of late, IMO. I have been part of the realms since virtually the beginning of published material and plan on contributing my 2 cents in 4E and beyond.
Everyone has opinions of course, but I have been envisioning torches and pitch forks when anyone mentions anything post spellplague. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 03:25:01
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
I hope this is the case Alaundo, because the 4e SUCKS conversations have taken over as of late, IMO. I have been part of the realms since virtually the beginning of published material and plan on contributing my 2 cents in 4E and beyond.
Everyone has opinions of course, but I have been envisioning torches and pitch forks when anyone mentions anything post spellplague.
There have been an awful lot of those conversations, of late. I'll admit that while I participated in some, I've backed off from them rather much. Not only have I grown resigned to what's going on, I don't like harping on something forever. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 May 2008 03:29:46 |
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capnvan
Senior Scribe
USA
592 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 08:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
.I don't like French food, but I wouldn't be rude to a Frenchman just because he enjoys it.
Ah, mon ami, if you do not like French food, eet ees only because you have not had real French food, but some kind of snooty impostor!
Hmm. That seems like it might make its way into my metaphors for 4E FR...
I mean, the French may be cheese-eating surrender-monkeys (I kid! I kid! It's the Simpsons!), but they know how to cook. |
"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing." |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 09:05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The negativity I am feeling is aimed at the poor decisions I feel were made by WotC, not any particular group of fans, designers, or authors.
I generally agree with this, but I must point out that certain designers and authors (those with decision-making authority regarding the 4e Realms)should be included in any negativity directed towards WotC. There is no justification to exclude them from any criticism leveled against WotC concerning changes in fluff (corporate strategy-such as the WotC forum design-is out of their hands, however). |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2008 : 13:49:35
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quote:
Originally posted by lowtech
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The negativity I am feeling is aimed at the poor decisions I feel were made by WotC, not any particular group of fans, designers, or authors.
I generally agree with this, but I must point out that certain designers and authors (those with decision-making authority regarding the 4e Realms)should be included in any negativity directed towards WotC. There is no justification to exclude them from any criticism leveled against WotC concerning changes in fluff (corporate strategy-such as the WotC forum design-is out of their hands, however).
Never did, never will... all who deserve it, will get it  |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 03:45:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Simply put, some of us may agree with the decision, while others will not.
Frankly I do not know any realms fans that like it
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
This is Candlekeep -- THE Library of Forgotten Realms Lore. First and foremost, we're a happy and healthy community of devoted Realms fans. And I'd like to see it remain as such.
No matter what the dopes at WoTC do, we will always have the 'keep |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 06:48:01
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Simply put, some of us may agree with the decision, while others will not.
Frankly I do not know any realms fans that like it
There has been a few people here at the 'Keep. As long as they call themselves Realmsfans they are just that. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2008 : 19:42:28
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I believe Merrikale's post referenced Sage's post, which was a response to WotC's board reorganization (as per the topic), in which case Merrikale is quite correct - it does appear that the one thing that ALL Realms fans can agree on is that ONE board is ridiculous for the Forgotten Realms.
They actually managed to annoy the 4e fan-boys as well this time out.
You got to give them credit - they are thorough when they set out to do something. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 May 2008 21:53:23 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2008 : 18:44:19
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
No matter what the dopes at WoTC do, we will always have the 'keep
Unless of course Candlekeep was destroyed by Spell Plague. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 25 May 2008 18:46:11 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2008 : 19:18:07
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I actually asked that exact question, back when changes were first announced, and the official answer was "it should be fine".
Not very specific, and that was months ago. I have a feeling that if they have done something to it since then, it was to undermine this site's credibility, for whatever reason. That may sound pretty far-fetched, but what other reason would they have to remove it, when they have already said the North came through the Spellplague almost completely unharmed? It would be to remove any connection to previous lore, and thats it.
After all, if there's no Candlekeep in the 4e world, then 4e players may find it harder to relate to this site, where they can get tons of help running an 'old school' game.
I'm not saying thats what will happen, but if they changed their mind and nuked the 'real' CK, thats what I'm going to think, for sure. After all, their primary goal with the 'new & improved' setting is to eliminate all previous lore (or at least, the need for it), and we here may be viewed as a 'loose end'.
However, I don't really believe they will do that, and we should be just fine. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 May 2008 19:33:10 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2008 : 19:47:27
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Fine is a matter of perspective... as I said before, the timejump more than even the switch to 4e in terms of a game might divide the Realms fanbase to a point where the knowledge and advice from CK might not be needed.
I, for one, cannot give any pointers on how to run a post-spellplague game since I won't bother with the lore. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2008 : 20:54:06
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Absolutely correct - I, and many others here, won't be able to answer post-Spellplague questions.
But if some of those new players want to know about the original Netherease Empire, or Unther, or Imaskar, or Halruaa <snif>, then we have an obligation to enlighten them as to what was 'lost' in the past.
And tell them just how good it was...
The way I see it, with just two sourcebooks and an adventure, those poor b_____ds are going to need all the help they can get.
If we force them to rely on the DDi, they wil get the idea the whole setting reads like a bad Halloween story. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 May 2008 20:55:01 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2008 : 21:08:41
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| I wonder, though, with Councellors & Kings OOP, will there be any mention of those old empires? IF GHotR remains in print much info can be found there, but will the guides actually mention those places? In my mind that would be redundant: WotC or Hasbro want to sell the new Realms, the new Realms is a blank slate, why should they bother with lore that has been, quite literally, obliterated? |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2008 : 21:33:27
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Read your journal, and I say we are on the same page. I just don't see ANY decisions being based on the "good of the game" anymore.
What I see coming is a never-ending flow of near-useless splatbooks and empty promises.
To keep this on topic, they say the reorganization of the boards (more like down-sizing) was done to help with miniamlizing things and making room for the new content.
The content they have said will come sometime down the road, AFTER they start charging for the DDi...
What, exactly, are they expecting people to pay for? Empty promises? 
I would really like to be a fly on the wall over at the WotC/Hasbro headquarters for just one day, just to see if they are nearly as self-deluded as they appear to be.
It just doesn't make sense... NO ONE could be that short-sighted. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 May 2008 21:34:40 |
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Topic |
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No more WotC 3e FR boards
Topic Locked
