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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 17:37:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Nice to see they aren't publishing too many 'splat' books on races & such... 
Indeed! Not since the latter books of the PHBR series from 2E have we had a book devoted to a single PC race. Progress! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 17:40:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Nice to see they aren't publishing too many 'splat' books on races & such...
Indeed! Not since the latter books of the PHBR series from 2E have we had a book devoted to a single PC race. Progress!
HHAHAHA. I just kind of rolled my eyes at another Underdark book. Seriously, there's about.... four of them now? I know, someone will come by and go "But there's not one for 4e! So, we need another one." Uh huh..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 18:15:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Nice to see they aren't publishing too many 'splat' books on races & such...
Indeed! Not since the latter books of the PHBR series from 2E have we had a book devoted to a single PC race. Progress!
HHAHAHA. I just kind of rolled my eyes at another Underdark book. Seriously, there's about.... four of them now? I know, someone will come by and go "But there's not one for 4e! So, we need another one." Uh huh.....
FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark (2E)
Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark (2E)
Underdark (3E)
Drow of the Underdark (3E)
Underdark (4E)
... Did I miss any? I think it's a pretty safe bet there will be a 4E drow book, too.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 18:46:44
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You could probably put Menzoberranzan along with those (despite it not having Underdark in the title).
Oh, and there's the novel REALMS OF THE UNDERDARK  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 18:50:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Nice to see they aren't publishing too many 'splat' books on races & such...
Indeed! Not since the latter books of the PHBR series from 2E have we had a book devoted to a single PC race. Progress!
Let's look at the 3.xE PC Race books (all detailing multiple races)
Races of Stone (dwarves, gnomes and the other one (brain fart))
Races of Destiny (Illumians, Humans and Half-Elves and Half-Orcs)
Races of the Wild (Elves, Halflings, and the other one (brain fart))
So for each book at about 35$ you pay about 10$ per race. So the going price per race hasn't changed much, except now you can pay less if you only care about dwarves and hate gnomes lol.
I guess you can add Races of Faerun to that list (which was the best one and one of the best all time FR products, especially for finally fleshing out the HUMAN subraces). |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 19:04:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Nice to see they aren't publishing too many 'splat' books on races & such...
Indeed! Not since the latter books of the PHBR series from 2E have we had a book devoted to a single PC race. Progress!
HHAHAHA. I just kind of rolled my eyes at another Underdark book. Seriously, there's about.... four of them now? I know, someone will come by and go "But there's not one for 4e! So, we need another one." Uh huh.....
FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark (2E)
Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark (2E)
Underdark (3E)
Drow of the Underdark (3E)
Underdark (4E)
... Did I miss any? I think it's a pretty safe bet there will be a 4E drow book, too.
Don't forget City of the Spider Queen. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 20:03:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
ENworld reports that Amazon has two new books on the catalog.
Underdark and Dragonborn. Underdark is hardcover for 30 dollars and dragonborn is 10 dollars for softcover.
http://www.amazon.com/Underdark-4th-D-Supplement/dp/078695387X/
http://www.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Races-Dragonborn-Supplement/dp/0786953861/
Well that is good to know. I had heard about the newest Underdark title from BRJ's Ask thread. Didnt know about the Dragonborn Book just yet. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 21:29:55
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I will be interested in seeing what the Dragonborn book response will be.
It's pretty common that, as a gaming company releases more books, power creep takes hold so that the 'newest shiny' is the most powerful thing available. This is good for marketing (heh... Warhammer's BASED continued success is BASED on this), since most players want the most for their characters. However, it's generally bad for the game since previous books are now 'weaker'.
I think WotC is playing it perfectly though, with spreading the books out so that there's a new release every month or so, but they aren't too unbalancing. Just enough to keep players buying the books.
And, the reason I'm bring this up is, since WotC is almost anti-fluff anymore, I don't picture the Dragonborn book being a cultural book, but rather a list of powers, feats and subraces. Thus making Dragonborn more powerful than other races. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 23:47:54
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My question with all the themed class/environment/etc. books not tied to explicit settings is 'What's so interesting about what this group of staff designers has to say about the subject?' As compared with Ed Greenwood on the Realms or Keith Baker on Eberron, or John Rateliff on Middle-earth or other known experts.
Aside from that, the books' only appeal is official rules material. So it's limited to those who like to amass such stuff, which rules me out, for one, even if I played that version of the game. (I've been selling off most of my non-Realms 2E books for this reason.) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 01:01:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Nice to see they aren't publishing too many 'splat' books on races & such...
Indeed! Not since the latter books of the PHBR series from 2E have we had a book devoted to a single PC race. Progress!
HHAHAHA. I just kind of rolled my eyes at another Underdark book. Seriously, there's about.... four of them now? I know, someone will come by and go "But there's not one for 4e! So, we need another one." Uh huh.....
FOR2 The Drow of the Underdark (2E)
Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark (2E)
Underdark (3E)
Drow of the Underdark (3E)
Underdark (4E)
... Did I miss any? I think it's a pretty safe bet there will be a 4E drow book, too.
Forget that, originally, 2002 was the "Year of the Drow" at WotC. It would seem more appropriate to suggest that these last nine years have been the "Decade of the Drow." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 01:15:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Nice to see they aren't publishing too many 'splat' books on races & such...
I know. Although, at 32 pages that dragonborn book sounds awfully skimpy anyway. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 04:56:13
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Actually $10 per race book sounds about right. You figure a DM needs everything, but a player shouldn't have to buy anything that they won't use, so now they need merely buy the book for the race the are interested in playing.
This, I think, is a positive, and actually a step in the right direction.
As for yet another Underdark book... <we need a vomiting smiley>
Let us not forget the Liriel series of novels, some of the Drizzt books, WotSQ, and you could even throw-in Night Below if you wanted to be thorough. Undermountain stuff (including Skullport) if you wanted to be uber-thorough.
Yeah... way too much information on an area only about 10% of the campaigns use. 
Drow remind me of earings on dudes - they were cool, until everybody started doing it.
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I know. Although, at 32 pages that dragonborn book sounds awfully skimpy anyway.
No more so then some adventures I could think of, and $10 sounds about right these days.
While it's true 50 pgs. would have been better, its still a bargain compared to the $35 book players would have had to buy if they hadn't decided to do the races individually.
For a DM it works out almost the same - By the end of 3e the books were only 160 pgs, and the race books had some info on more then just the main three covered, plus a lot of 'filler' (Huge stat-blocks, useless Feats and PrCs, etc...) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 May 2009 05:04:05 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 05:24:48
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| Well, when I made my comment I was also thinking of the 1e books that include the underdark. So there's probably about a dozen or so underdark books in existence now. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 13:47:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Well, when I made my comment I was also thinking of the 1e books that include the underdark. So there's probably about a dozen or so underdark books in existence now. :)
Ah, but the only 'legal' book will be the 4th Edition one. Didn't you get the memo from WotC about how the previous editions no longer exist?
(that's a big J/K, BTW) |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 14:42:49
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| I like the idea of one book per race as well. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 15:58:17
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Thinking further on this, the best solution is to make these new race books mostly crunch. Then take the 3e fluff (perhaps slightly modified, especially in the case of the Dragoborn) and give us an additional 20 pages of pure fluff available on the web, and only available to DDi customers.
The fluff already exists (ad nauseum) for every race and culture, so all they need do is spruce it up a little and present it again for 'free' (but only free to subscribers). This will eliminate redundant fluff in books (so that the 35 pages would be 'meaty'), generate 'good will' by having older material available for free (rules-free, which just saves WotC on page counts, and costs them nothing), and also lure many more 4e players to the DDi.
I hate to say it, but if every book they put-out had a lot more fluff and it was all put into Web-enhancements on the DDi, the DDi would really take-off. It would also give them a venue to present setting-specific information for each core book (the way Etan's articles used to, or how some of the later 3e splats had the "In the Realms..." sidebars). If they really wanted to put some time and effort into it, they could even present different campaign-specific WE's for each book. That is the optimal solution, I think, with the universal 'crunch' in the hard-copies, and most of the fluff online - thats a win-win for everyone. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 May 2009 15:59:00 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 16:29:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thinking further on this, the best solution is to make these new race books mostly crunch. Then take the 3e fluff (perhaps slightly modified, especially in the case of the Dragoborn) and give us an additional 20 pages of pure fluff available on the web, and only available to DDi customers.
The fluff already exists (ad nauseum) for every race and culture, so all they need do is spruce it up a little and present it again for 'free' (but only free to subscribers). This will eliminate redundant fluff in books (so that the 35 pages would be 'meaty'), generate 'good will' by having older material available for free (rules-free, which just saves WotC on page counts, and costs them nothing), and also lure many more 4e players to the DDi.
I hate to say it, but if every book they put-out had a lot more fluff and it was all put into Web-enhancements on the DDi, the DDi would really take-off. It would also give them a venue to present setting-specific information for each core book (the way Etan's articles used to, or how some of the later 3e splats had the "In the Realms..." sidebars). If they really wanted to put some time and effort into it, they could even present different campaign-specific WE's for each book. That is the optimal solution, I think, with the universal 'crunch' in the hard-copies, and most of the fluff online - thats a win-win for everyone.
That's a good idea... But only if they have enough crunch for each book (wow, I can't believe I typed that! ). With say 64 pages, that's a lot of crunch, unless it's filled with useless stat blocks -- which even some crunch-happy people dislike. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 18:52:07
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| Don't forget it is 4e! It will come with 4 pages of feats, 6 of powers, 4 paragon paths, 1 adventure and 8 images. (race book) |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 19:20:37
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
Don't forget it is 4e! It will come with 4 pages of feats, 6 of powers, 4 paragon paths, 1 adventure and 8 images. (race book)
True |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 20:51:39
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quote:
Originally posted by edappel
Don't forget it is 4e! It will come with 4 pages of feats, 6 of powers, 4 paragon paths, 1 adventure and 8 images. (race book)
That leaves 9 pages of filler. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Tyr
Learned Scribe
225 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 23:16:41
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| or really big pictures, with atleast 1 for each section. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 01:32:23
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Ack! The tendency for 4e books is for the chapter art to cover 1½ pages. 
Don't forget the first and last page tends to be blank, and we could get an ad on the last page (like the 3e books), and the table of contents takes up a page...
That 32 pages is looking more and more meager. 
Aren't comic-books thicker then that? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 May 2009 01:34:26 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 03:48:44
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[SARCASM]They dont want to overload the short attention spans of the intended target audience.  shiny[/SARCASM] 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 04:15:38
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Have some of you scribes not tried Pathfinder yet?  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 04:26:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
They dont want to overload the short attention spans of the intended target audience. shiny
Hey!
You're not allowed to make fun of anything form WotC! Aren't you a '4e guy', or has that changed?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 May 2009 04:28:26 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 06:02:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Have some of you scribes not tried Pathfinder yet?
Unfortunately, I haven't. The printed releases have been awfully slow here, and scattered for the most part. I've lost track of which sourcebooks have been released, as well as which ones I'd want/need.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 06:16:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
They dont want to overload the short attention spans of the intended target audience. shiny
Hey!
You're not allowed to make fun of anything form WotC! Aren't you a '4e guy', or has that changed?
No equal opportunity hater.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 06:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Have some of you scribes not tried Pathfinder yet?
The rules? No need. The setting? It's not the Forgotten Realms. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Wizard's 2010 releases
