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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3252 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2018 :  21:06:50  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

But.....then they drop a big bad dumb decision here - attack penalties. *ugh* Seriously I was HOPING we were done with these. Nothing bogs down combat more than rolling 3 d20's then trying to figure out which one the -2 , -4 , -6 etc applies to. It's dumb, overly penalizing to weapon-based classes, and has zero narrative reasoning behind it. This decision seriously makes me even consider playing the game it's THAT bad.

-Do people not roll one action/attack/whatever at a time? I've never once in my life made multiple action/attack/whatever rolls at the same time. It seems so counter-intuitive for the exact reason you just mentioned.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
8536 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2018 :  02:41:58  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

But.....then they drop a big bad dumb decision here - attack penalties. *ugh* Seriously I was HOPING we were done with these. Nothing bogs down combat more than rolling 3 d20's then trying to figure out which one the -2 , -4 , -6 etc applies to. It's dumb, overly penalizing to weapon-based classes, and has zero narrative reasoning behind it. This decision seriously makes me even consider playing the game it's THAT bad.

-Do people not roll one action/attack/whatever at a time? I've never once in my life made multiple action/attack/whatever rolls at the same time. It seems so counter-intuitive for the exact reason you just mentioned.



People do it all the time. They usually designate by color of dice (i.e. blue is the first, red the second, purple the third, etc...), write it down somewhere and just stick to it. Its a big time saver.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2382 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2018 :  21:29:58  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am just waiting for them to get their novels back on track. Of course, the same can be said for FR, so...

Sweet water and light laughter
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3737 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2018 :  22:47:26  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

But.....then they drop a big bad dumb decision here - attack penalties. *ugh* Seriously I was HOPING we were done with these. Nothing bogs down combat more than rolling 3 d20's then trying to figure out which one the -2 , -4 , -6 etc applies to. It's dumb, overly penalizing to weapon-based classes, and has zero narrative reasoning behind it. This decision seriously makes me even consider playing the game it's THAT bad.

-Do people not roll one action/attack/whatever at a time? I've never once in my life made multiple action/attack/whatever rolls at the same time. It seems so counter-intuitive for the exact reason you just mentioned.



For me I roll all at once because its easier but it also requires 4-7 different colored d20's. I personally don't like that, especially because I then have to mix/match the modifiers to the rolls per die. It's not terrible, but certainly annoying and I'd like to try to lessen annoying things.

Also I worry if they're going to keep the dumb 5-ft. step / full-attack matrix. A 1e Pathfinder Wizard can Gate in an entire Angelic host in 6 seconds but a highly trained Fighter can't get two attacks if he moves more than 5 ft??? *sigh*

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1258 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2018 :  11:03:37  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In nearly all systems I roll one at a time, because the result of the first attack can have immediate effect (crit? then the next attacks will have to find new targets) on the battlefield.


The 5 ft step is back in the form of a Step action, which is a slight movement that prevents reactions from triggering.

This nicely replaces the withdraw action as well, as a combatant can step out of reach with his first action, and use the following two actions that round to move away or around.

Movement and AoO's are also overhauled quite a bit with humans base speed being 25ft (elves get 30 while dwarves, halflings and gnomes get 20ft), making combat strides in melee a lot easier to perform and more of a gamble: its probably better to take the risk of the reaction of your goblin archer foe and reach and engage the bugbear then to stick to the archer and let the bugbear outflank your party.

My campaign sketches

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2382 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2018 :  19:22:29  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So is this playtest going to explain (or at least show) the changes they mention?

Sweet water and light laughter
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3737 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2018 :  13:31:41  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the Playtest is out, free on PDF and the hard copy is around $35.00 USD. Anyone have a look at it yet?

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4895 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2019 :  17:19:24  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing I have noticed that is a good idea that could do with further development. They have replaced move action s and standard actions and come up with a single action. You get 3 single actions in a round and presumably can use them to move and attack as you wish.

Of course they still kept free actions which is horribly open to abuse and really poorly defined and then you have one reaction a round (a missed opportunity for obvious stat increase there).

Skills are not different at all really, some consolidation of actions into other skills but another missed opportunity of simplification (not to the degree of 5e though).

Still need to figure out magic, but I suspect it is the same as before.

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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2945 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2020 :  23:37:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm running this now and really enjoying it. It's fresh and simple to play, but it requires reading a lot of the core rulebook to really get before you can appreciate it. It is obviously much more rules heavy than 5e, but it's faster and clearer than 3e/PF1e. One thing to note is that we STILL don't have all of the rules: the GameMastery Guide coming out in a few months is going to have the rules for NPCs and monster creation. It's difficult to do more than reflavour published things until then.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2382 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2020 :  01:04:47  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia

I'm running this now and really enjoying it. It's fresh and simple to play, but it requires reading a lot of the core rulebook to really get before you can appreciate it. It is obviously much more rules heavy than 5e, but it's faster and clearer than 3e/PF1e. One thing to note is that we STILL don't have all of the rules: the GameMastery Guide coming out in a few months is going to have the rules for NPCs and monster creation. It's difficult to do more than reflavour published things until then.



Has there been any major changes to the setting (for example, like 4e did with Forgotten Realms), or are things pretty much the same? I am only somewhat familiar with Pathfinder (I started to get into it, playing a couple times, and reading some of the novels, but then that novel line went on hiatus, too), but I just want to know if there are major changes I should be aware of.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32829 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2020 :  01:37:02  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

quote:
Originally posted by Arivia

I'm running this now and really enjoying it. It's fresh and simple to play, but it requires reading a lot of the core rulebook to really get before you can appreciate it. It is obviously much more rules heavy than 5e, but it's faster and clearer than 3e/PF1e. One thing to note is that we STILL don't have all of the rules: the GameMastery Guide coming out in a few months is going to have the rules for NPCs and monster creation. It's difficult to do more than reflavour published things until then.



Has there been any major changes to the setting (for example, like 4e did with Forgotten Realms), or are things pretty much the same? I am only somewhat familiar with Pathfinder (I started to get into it, playing a couple times, and reading some of the novels, but then that novel line went on hiatus, too), but I just want to know if there are major changes I should be aware of.



I've ordered the new setting book, but it's not arrived yet. I saw something about the Worldwound being closed, though.

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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2945 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2020 :  02:44:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

quote:
Originally posted by Arivia

I'm running this now and really enjoying it. It's fresh and simple to play, but it requires reading a lot of the core rulebook to really get before you can appreciate it. It is obviously much more rules heavy than 5e, but it's faster and clearer than 3e/PF1e. One thing to note is that we STILL don't have all of the rules: the GameMastery Guide coming out in a few months is going to have the rules for NPCs and monster creation. It's difficult to do more than reflavour published things until then.



Has there been any major changes to the setting (for example, like 4e did with Forgotten Realms), or are things pretty much the same? I am only somewhat familiar with Pathfinder (I started to get into it, playing a couple times, and reading some of the novels, but then that novel line went on hiatus, too), but I just want to know if there are major changes I should be aware of.



I've ordered the new setting book, but it's not arrived yet. I saw something about the Worldwound being closed, though.



Right! So the way continuity works in the official Pathfinder setting of Golarion is that they only update it when they release new versions of the core setting guide. Every year they produce two six-month adventure series (called adventure paths or APs) that often end with big repercussions (like the Worldwound being closed at the end of the Wrath of the Righteous AP) but those don't get folded in and made canon for other products until the next time the setting as a whole is updated. Because this is the first time the setting has been updated in eight years, there were about sixteen APs worth of changes to include. So there are new nations, changes in leadership, a couple deity changes, returned evils and so on.

Now, these changes are regional, only affecting part of the world. There's nothing like say the Time of Troubles or the Spellplague going on. Pathfinder 2e has a bunch of rules changes, but they're largely evolutionary and additive in terms of how the setting is perceived. Has the Pathfinder setting changed in a bunch of ways? Yes, but they're all following ideas that had been previously developed and created for the setting. I think I'd compare it to the 2e-3e change to the Realms, some new stuff, some old stuff getting resolved, some things got discarded. Similarly, if you want to just play 2e using the 1e setting, you'd be perfectly fine. You might need to improvise some rules until they get things updated to 2e, but using say the 1e setting book you have will work great.

This brings me to another big change with 2e, which is that none of the game lines are setting-neutral any more. 1e had kind of a Chinese Wall between the core rulebook line and the rest of the products, so most of the Pathfinder rulebooks were written to be setting agnostic. They eventually got rid of this policy by the end of 1e, and now all rulebooks are written with Golarion as the default setting. The 2e core rulebook has a setting chapter on Golarion, there's more specific setting detail about Golarion written through say the ancestry (race) descriptions, and so on. (This doesn't mean the rulebooks don't support creating your own setting, adventures, or ideas however!)

You might think this makes adapting 2e for say the Realms a lot harder, but they made one big change that makes it a lot, lot easier. Everything is now explicitly tagged with a rarity trait (common, uncommon, rare, or unique) that describes how available it is in your game, and it is made very clear that GMs and players should change the rarity of game items to fit their setting and playstyle. (Common options are always available, uncommon options are sometimes available depending upon the part of the setting or context you're in, rare options require GM consent, and unique options can only be introduced by the GM.) A good example is the goblin ancestry, which is now straight up in the Core Rulebook and accessible for all players. They count as common. This makes sense for Golarion, it's a prominent mascot race for Paizo and they did a lot of work to make goblins more acceptable in many civilizations. It doesn't make a lot of sense in the Realms, where we don't have a lot of civilized goblins in the same way. We've had goblin PC stats in pretty much every edition, but they're always tagged with "ask your DM." So for the 2e game I'm running in Westgate I changed goblins to rare, requiring a player to discuss including them with me before using that ancestry. And we have a goblin, but I was able to talk through goblins in the Realms with the player first and put us both on the same page. It's really that simple.
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keftiu
Learned Scribe

140 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2020 :  02:48:40  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

quote:
Originally posted by Arivia

I'm running this now and really enjoying it. It's fresh and simple to play, but it requires reading a lot of the core rulebook to really get before you can appreciate it. It is obviously much more rules heavy than 5e, but it's faster and clearer than 3e/PF1e. One thing to note is that we STILL don't have all of the rules: the GameMastery Guide coming out in a few months is going to have the rules for NPCs and monster creation. It's difficult to do more than reflavour published things until then.



Has there been any major changes to the setting (for example, like 4e did with Forgotten Realms), or are things pretty much the same? I am only somewhat familiar with Pathfinder (I started to get into it, playing a couple times, and reading some of the novels, but then that novel line went on hiatus, too), but I just want to know if there are major changes I should be aware of.



Every adventure path is assumed to have happened and ended with the PCs triumphant. This means the Worldwound is closed, Nocticula has been redeemed, Casandalee is a goddess now, Korvosa is independent, and a few other things. It also had the colonial regime of Sargava overthrown by a revolution, and now Vidrian is a new nation in its place run by native Mwangi.

Oh, and Tar-Baphon is free. He destroyed Lastwall.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.

Edited by - keftiu on 15 Jan 2020 02:49:12
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2382 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2020 :  03:49:20  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you, Arivia and Keftiu!

Sweet water and light laughter
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3083 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2020 :  13:30:22  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't forget the Runelords are back and have established New Thassilon in Varisia.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3102 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2020 :  14:27:24  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Whispering Tyrant was my favorite "Villain" when I was into Golarion. Cool!

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
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Renin
Learned Scribe

USA
231 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2020 :  15:12:59  Show Profile Send Renin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A new hobgoblin nation was formed, occupying the mountains near Molthune and Nimrathas. Instead of being continual oppressors, they are now working on diplomatic and trade ties(from Ironfang invasion).

It's a place where events matter, days and years progress, and no baby was thrown out with the bath water with the edition changes.

Good, continued quality which always leads trying to meet fan desire, while being very open with their plans. It's why they get my money and Wotc doesn't.
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