Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 Running the Realms
 New 10 level Mischiefmaker PrC 3.5 ED
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2017 :  22:05:55  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
The Mischiefmaker (specialty cleric of Erevan Ilesere)

The Mischiefmaker represents all that is chaotic and free. They bring change and excitement where ever they go be it for good or ill. They live on the edge in a constant state of self-reinvention. They thrive to puncture the self-righteousness, sanctimony, and pretension that pervades orderly society with mischievous pranks that both amuse and enlighten. They enjoy causing trouble for its own sake and have the ability to take care of themselves should a prank prove to be deadly or go awry. Most Mischiefmakers are Moon or Copper elves, but even Gold, Wild and Star elves take this class when the call of Erevan sings strongly in their hearts. Most Mischiefmakers are famous or infamous Rogue/Clerics in the favor of Erevan Ilesere and serve as his mortal right-hand. They are deadly-romantic in their charm and subtlety of skill. Brave and yet flighty. They are champions of trickery and modest in ability. To underestimate a Mischiefmaker is to court the surety of becoming the victim to an amusing, well thought, elaborate hoax that could end up costing you and being at your cost.

Hit Die: d8.

Requirements: To qualify to become a Mischiefmaker, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race: Character must be a Elf or Half Elf.

Skills: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Disguise 5 ranks, Disable device 6 ranks, Bluff 6 ranks, Hide 6 ranks, Move silently 6 ranks, sleight of hand 5 ranks, Concentration 2 ranks, Spellcraft 1 rank, Escape Artist 2 ranks.

Feats: Any Metamagic feat, Sacred Outlaw.

Spellcasting: Ability to cast 3'rd level Divine spells. Must have either the chaos, trickery or luck domain.

Special: +2d6 Sneak attack ability. Must have Erevan Ilesere as a Patron Deity.

Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Disable Device, Escape artist, Heal, Hide, Intuit direction, Jump, Knowledge (religion), Listen, Move silently, Open lock, Sleight of hand, Profession, Search, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble, Use magic device, Use rope, Wilderness lore.

Skill points at each level- 6 + Int mod.

Class Features: Weapon & Armor Proficiency: Mischiefmaker's are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. MM's are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Spells per day: A Mischiefmaker's training focuses on divine magic. Thus, when a character gains a new level of MM, she gains new spells per day as if she also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not however gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.

Divine Scoundrel: At 1'st level the MM gains the ability to add her Mischiefmaker class levels to stack with her Sacred Outlaw feat. For example, a 5'th level cleric/ 3'rd level rogue/ 3'rd level Mischiefmaker Turns undead as a 11'th level cleric, and deals +6d6 points of damage on a successful sneak attack.

Granted Domain: At 2'nd level, the MM gains access to one domain chosen from among those her deity offers, and with it the granted power of that domain. Mischiefmakers who were once clerics essentially gain a third domain this way and can prepare their domain spells at each level from the new domainís list if they wish.

Mock Law: At 3'rd level, the MM gains a +2 divine bonus on saving throws against any spell with the law descriptor, as well as the spell-like or supernatural abilities of outsiders. In addition the MM also gains a +2 divine bonus to the DC of all spells he casts with the chaos, Luck and trickery Domains.

Shadow Trick: Beginning at 4'th level, once a day you can call forth the power of shadow, enveloping yourself in a clinging, concealing shroud of darkness. While this spell-like ability is in effect, you gain a number of benefits. The shadows wrapping your form grant you a +4 competence bonus on Escape Artist, Hide, and Move Silently checks. Your shadowy form also provides you with concealment. This shadowy concealment is not negated by a see invisibility spell, but a true seeing spell counteracts the effect. Standing within the radius of a daylight spell or in bright natural sunlight temporarily suppresses the concealment effect. In addition, if you have 5 ranks in Escape Artist, you can attempt to slip through a solid object or barrier up to 5 feet thick with a DC 20 Escape Artist check, though doing this ends the spell as soon as the attempt is completed (regardless of success). If you have 10 ranks in Escape Artist, you can attempt to pass through an object or barrier up to 10 feet thick. If you have 15 ranks in Escape Artist, you can attempt to pass through a barrier composed of magical force (or similar magical obstacles). This ability lasts 1 minute/ level of MM class, and requires 1 standard action to use.

Side Slip: At 5'th level, you become supernaturally elusive. Five times per day as an immediate action, you can transfer yourself from your current space to another up to 20 feet away. This ability otherwise works like the dimension door spell, except that you cannot transport other creatures with you.

Surprise Spells: At 6'th level, a Mischiefmaker can add his sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, as long as the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage. The additional damage is of the same type as the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage. The additional damage is only applied once per spell.

Metamagic Trick: At 7'th level, you understand how to apply the principle of tricks to your spellcasting. Once per day you can apply the effect of any one metamagic feat you know to a spell as you cast it without altering the spellís effective level. The spell slot adjustment of the metamagic feat canít exceed four.

Invisible Thief: Beginning at 8'th level, the MM can become invisible, as if under the effects of greater invisibility, as a free action. She can remain invisible for a number of rounds per day equal to her MM level. Her caster level for this effect is equal to her full character caster level. These rounds need not be consecutive.

Tricky Magic : At 9'th level once per day as a swift action, you can add your Charisma Modifier as a luck bonus on the save DC of all spells you cast until the start of your next turn.

Scoundrel's Shadow: At 10'th level, the MM has mastered the art of Trickery and Divine spells. The MM can become incorporeal once per day. A MM can remain incorporeal for a number of rounds equal to 5 + her Wis Mod. As an incorporeal creature, the MM can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, +1 or better magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. She is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, the MM has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for force effects, such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). An incorporeal MM has no natural armor but has a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier. An incorporeal MM can pass through solid objects at will, but not force effects. Her attack passes through (ignores) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. An incorporeal MM moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if she doesn't wish to be. While incorporeal, the MM has no Strength score, so her Dexterity modifier applies to both her melee and her ranged attacks.

(All spell-like abilities are cast at total character caster level)


The Mischiefmaker TABLE 1:1

       Base
       Attack
Level  Bonus      Fort  Ref  Will      Special                    Spellcasting
1st	+0	   +0	+2    +2       Divine Scoundrel               +1  spellcasting level
                                       
2nd	+1	   +0	+3    +3       Granted Domain           +1  spellcasting level                     
                                             
3rd	+2	   +1   +3    +3       Mock Law                  +1  spellcasting level                
                                       
4th	+3	   +1   +4    +4       Shadow Trick           +1  spellcasting level                     
                                       
5th	+3	   +1	+4    +4       Side Slip                    +1  spellcasting level

6th     +4         +2   +5   +5       Surprise Spells          +1 spellcasting level

7th     +5         +2   +5   +5       Metamagic Trick       +1 spellcasting level

8th     +6/+1      +2   +6   +6          Invisible Thief            +1 spellcasting level

9th     +6/+1      +3   +6   +6          Tricky Magic              +1 spellcasting level

10th    +7/+2      +3   +7   +7           Scoundrels Shadow      +1 spellcasting level


All comments and critique are welcome,

CEV

Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 16 May 2017 18:02:46

LordofBones
Senior Scribe

405 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2017 :  10:04:41  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why exactly does a divine trickster class get such powerful spell bonuses? Surprise spells, Metamagic Trick and Tricky Magic are better than many arcane prestige class features. Not even the Arcane Lord gives a 1/day +10 DC bonus.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2017 :  21:05:18  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Why exactly does a divine trickster class get such powerful spell bonuses? Surprise spells, Metamagic Trick and Tricky Magic are better than many arcane prestige class features. Not even the Arcane Lord gives a 1/day +10 DC bonus.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Surprise spells and Metamagic Trick are not that powerful imo. There are much more powerful abilities in many PrC's that deal with divine or arcane casters. I see what you mean when it comes to Tricky Magic giving +10 DC bonus at 10'th level. So in that case, I propose a DC bonus of 5 + Wis Mod 1/day for Tricky Magic.
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Senior Scribe

405 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2017 :  07:48:32  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What kind of divine casters do you have where 5 + Wis mod is less powerful than a flat +10 DC? A primary caster can have up to 37 in his base casting stat at level 20.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2017 :  16:35:39  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

What kind of divine casters do you have where 5 + Wis mod is less powerful than a flat +10 DC? A primary caster can have up to 37 in his base casting stat at level 20.

What kind? Many to be honest. I don't know what type of gaming you're used to playing, but this seems fair and balanced to me and to my gaming group. Maybe you play a light-magic campaign, I don't know. And when a PC is level 20 they are pretty much an epic level player so yes it seems right. But thank you LoB for your questions and opinions. :)
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Senior Scribe

405 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2017 :  03:55:37  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's not a matter of whether it's a light magic campaign or not, it's a matter of Tricky Magic being blatantly overpowered. All a cleric needs is a three level dip in rogue, and by level 20 he has 9th level spells and either a +10 DC or a +18 DC (if we use your suggested change) bonus 1/day as a swift action. This is in addition to full sneak attack progression.

Erevan isn't even a god of magic. He's a god of mischief and rogues. Why is he giving out such insane bonuses to spellcasting?

Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2017 :  18:20:35  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

It's not a matter of whether it's a light magic campaign or not, it's a matter of Tricky Magic being blatantly overpowered. All a cleric needs is a three level dip in rogue, and by level 20 he has 9th level spells and either a +10 DC or a +18 DC (if we use your suggested change) bonus 1/day as a swift action. This is in addition to full sneak attack progression.

Erevan isn't even a god of magic. He's a god of mischief and rogues. Why is he giving out such insane bonuses to spellcasting

Who knows why Erevan does what he does? I've had several gamers tell me it's a well balanced PrC. There are SOOO many PrC's that are far, far more powerful than this PrC.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2017 :  15:31:07  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe this adjustment will be more along the lines of what you find balanced... At 9'th level once per day as a swift action, you can add your Charisma modifier as a luck bonus on the save DC of all spells you cast until the start of your next turn.

Is this more to your liking?

Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 26 Apr 2017 14:13:12
Go to Top of Page

Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
465 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2017 :  04:22:36  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Spell Save DCs already count your Wisdom modifier, I wouldn't go that way. It might be better as a luck bonus of 1/3 of your level in the PrC, i.e. get +1 at 3rd level, +2 at 6th and +3 at 9th. I'd do it differently, though.

I agree with Lord of Bones that the class is too powerful - take that as you will, the choice to use it or not is personal and if you want a powerful PrC that's not wrong. If you'd like it to be more in line with other PrCs, though, I'd make some suggestions:

1- Remove the +2 divine bonus to domain spells from the Mock Law ability.

2- Don't allow Sneak Attack damage from Surprise Spells to apply to more than one target - ever.

3- Have Metamagic Trick have a maximum of one spell level. Awesome for doing those Silent, Still spells, not that much more. Alternatively, have it apply only to certain feats that make sense for a mischiefmaker (by the way, if it takes a swift action, does that mean you effectively can't do it with Quicken Spell? I'm rusty on those late 3e mechanics).

4- Remove your version of Tricky Magic, substitute it for a +2 DC on all spells with the Chaos descriptor.

5- drop the hit die to d6 and skill point per level to 4+int (compare to arcane trickster - it keeps the worse hit die and bumps the worse skill point allowance by 2)


Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955

My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2017 :  14:20:54  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I changed Tricky Magic to adding your Charisma Mod as a luck bonus.

It seems this PrC is looking too powerful for FR game play, but the folks on the Pathfinder boards say it's a great PrC as it is after the changes I've made. lol. Still, keep the suggestions and comments coming. I don't mind constructive criticism. :)
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2017 :  17:29:11  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq

Spell Save DCs already count your Wisdom modifier, I wouldn't go that way. It might be better as a luck bonus of 1/3 of your level in the PrC, i.e. get +1 at 3rd level, +2 at 6th and +3 at 9th. I'd do it differently, though.

I agree with Lord of Bones that the class is too powerful - take that as you will, the choice to use it or not is personal and if you want a powerful PrC that's not wrong. If you'd like it to be more in line with other PrCs, though, I'd make some suggestions:

1- Remove the +2 divine bonus to domain spells from the Mock Law ability.

2- Don't allow Sneak Attack damage from Surprise Spells to apply to more than one target - ever.

3- Have Metamagic Trick have a maximum of one spell level. Awesome for doing those Silent, Still spells, not that much more. Alternatively, have it apply only to certain feats that make sense for a mischiefmaker (by the way, if it takes a swift action, does that mean you effectively can't do it with Quicken Spell? I'm rusty on those late 3e mechanics).

4- Remove your version of Tricky Magic, substitute it for a +2 DC on all spells with the Chaos descriptor.

5- drop the hit die to d6 and skill point per level to 4+int (compare to arcane trickster - it keeps the worse hit die and bumps the worse skill point allowance by 2)



Oh my goodness, those suggestions just won't work with this class. I'm of the mind that this PrC is not too powerful and quite good even. But thank you, I appreciate your feedback very much.
Go to Top of Page

RDS
Seeker

USA
19 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2017 :  12:33:57  Show Profile Send RDS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the Prc CEV.

But I agree with Mapolq that surprise attack with area effect spells is a bit much and I think it goes against the tenets of a precise strike to a vital area.

And the 1/3rd your level luck bonus speaks of progressing through the Prc rather more than a flat bonus does.

RDS
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2017 :  15:13:32  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RDS

I like the Prc CEV.

But I agree with Mapolq that surprise attack with area effect spells is a bit much and I think it goes against the tenets of a precise strike to a vital area.

And the 1/3rd your level luck bonus speaks of progressing through the Prc rather more than a flat bonus does.

Yes, I also agree with Mapolq about the area of effect sneak attack, I just haven't had the time to fix that little problem yet. What 1/3 level luck bonus are you referring to? Thank you very much RDS.
Go to Top of Page

RDS
Seeker

USA
19 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2017 :  16:46:26  Show Profile Send RDS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

quote:
Originally posted by RDS

I like the Prc CEV.

But I agree with Mapolq that surprise attack with area effect spells is a bit much and I think it goes against the tenets of a precise strike to a vital area.

And the 1/3rd your level luck bonus speaks of progressing through the Prc rather more than a flat bonus does.

Yes, I also agree with Mapolq about the area of effect sneak attack, I just haven't had the time to fix that little problem yet. What 1/3 level luck bonus are you referring to? Thank you very much RDS.



I was typing lazy in a hurry. The Mock law bonus'. Tying them into levels of the prc as Mopolq mentioned (+1 at 3rd, +2 at 6th, and +3 at 9th) shows growth through the prc. I've always favored that over a static bonus.

What I didn't say before though was I liked how you didn't stack a lot at the 1st level of the prc. Too many our bottom heavy and just ripe for Cherry Picking.

RDS
Go to Top of Page

LordXenophon
Learned Scribe

USA
107 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2017 :  14:25:02  Show Profile  Send LordXenophon an AOL message Send LordXenophon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I object to the name, "Mischiefmaker," not being a Gnome priest of Baravar Cloakshadow.

Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2017 :  14:57:02  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon

I object to the name, "Mischiefmaker," not being a Gnome priest of Baravar Cloakshadow.

You're thinking of Hoodwinker of Baravar Cloakshadow. The Mischiefmaker is a specialty Cleric of Erevan Ilesere from the 2ED Demi-human deities.
Go to Top of Page

Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
534 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2017 :  16:07:30  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I play PF and this PrC would never be allowed at my table. I love the concept, but I'd love it more as a hybrid class. I think it would scale MUCH better. Rogue/Cleric hybrid is a gap in PF right now.

It would be pretty easy to look at the other hybrid class progressions for sneak attack and spell progression to make this balanced against the existing classes.

Sneak attack on AoE spells is a deal killer.

I would try it out as a hybrid class, give it rogues BAB, weapon and armor proficiency (with deity weapon of course), 6 skill points with bard skills, warpriest spell progression, and a slayers sneak attack progression. Sprinkle in a few bonus feats and scribe scroll. Keep your abilities as "capstone" or "milestone" abilities within the class at the appropriate levels.

I think this gives a lot more flexibility for builds as well.

Any thoughts?

*EDIT* I'd love to work with you on this, if you are interested in a Pathfinder perspective. I would also be willing to pay test this for you in my current Realms campaign.

Edited by - Cards77 on 17 May 2017 00:36:32
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2017 :  20:20:30  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

I play PF and this PrC would never be allowed at my table. I love the concept, but I'd love it more as a hybrid class. I think it would scale MUCH better. Rogue/Cleric hybrid is a gap in PF right now.

It would be pretty easy to look at the other hybrid class progressions for sneak attack and spell progression to make this balanced against the existing classes.

Sneak attack on AoE spells is a deal killer.

I would try it out as a hybrid class, give it rogues BAB, weapon and armor proficiency (with deity weapon of course), 6 skill points with bard skills, warpriest spell progression, and a slayers sneak attack progression. Sprinkle in a few bonus feats and scribe scroll. Keep your abilities as "capstone" or "milestone" abilities within the class at the appropriate levels.

I think this gives a lot more flexibility for builds as well.

Any thoughts?

*EDIT* I'd love to work with you on this, if you are interested in a Pathfinder perspective. I would also be willing to pay test this for you in my current Realms campaign.

Yes that sounds great. Let's see your idea.
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

371 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2017 :  02:29:03  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Play tested this last night with several friends and this PrC works well and is balanced by all accounts around the table.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000