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 The Trickster armor of Vezzenvazzel Ahmaquissar
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

555 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2019 :  08:20:53  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
The Trickster armor of Vezzenvazzel Ahmaquissar; Relic. Crafted in the year -23,0150 DR, by the infamous cleric of Erevan Ilesere himself. This +5, Death Ward, black leather armor of freedom, is a boon to any rogue that dons it with an alignment of CN, CG, or CE.

*This armor is also equipped with a Greater Crystal of Mind Cloaking: This augment crystal grants you a +5 competence bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells and abilities. In addition, if you fail a save against a mind-affecting spell or ability, you can choose to reroll the save as an immediate (mental) action. This ability functions once per day.

Price (Item Level): 180,150 gp (20th)
Body Slot: Body
Caster Level: 20th
Aura: Strong; (DC 25) Illusion
Activation: —
Weight: 10 lb.

Relic If you have established the proper divine connection, many times per day you can cause the elven leather armor to disguise you as you see fit depending on your HD.

HD 1-5 = Alter self 5/day.
HD 6-10 = Change self 5/day.
HD 11-15 = Shape Change 2/day (any creature under 15 HD)
HD 16-20 = Shape Change 5/day (any fey creature of 20HD or less only.)

Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 12 Sep 2019 00:54:12

LordofBones
Senior Scribe

941 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2019 :  01:04:59  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Divine connection to who? Titania? The Queen of Air and Darkness?
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

555 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2019 :  11:07:06  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Divine connection to who? Titania? The Queen of Air and Darkness?


Erevan Ilesere.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

555 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2019 :  00:19:37  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Test playing this armor on this coming saturday night. Any suggestions before I give it a go?
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Delnyn
Seeker

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2019 :  22:24:31  Show Profile Send Delnyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

Test playing this armor on this coming saturday night. Any suggestions before I give it a go?



Maybe the armor only attunes to a Tel'Quessir, drow excluded. The penalty perhaps would be a
baleful polymorph in a twist of its useful powers.
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

555 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2019 :  19:44:07  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn

quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire

Test playing this armor on this coming saturday night. Any suggestions before I give it a go?



Maybe the armor only attunes to a Tel'Quessir, drow excluded. The penalty perhaps would be a
baleful polymorph in a twist of its useful powers.



That is actually a good idea. Thank you. I will make the changes by tonight.
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LordofBones
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941 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  15:35:13  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How did you get 18k when the base cost for +5 armor enhancement is 25k?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32291 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  19:40:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd make the date of crafting something vague. Even if the creator had kept detailed notes, being able to trace something to a specific year that long ago is something of a stretch. I'd go with something more vague -- "Believed to have been crafted around X years ago", for example.

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Diffan
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USA
3656 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2019 :  22:41:30  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So the item pricing is pretty off.

• Masterwork leather - 160 gp
• +5 armor enhancement - 25,000 to
• Death Ward armor enhancement (+1 bonus) - +11,000 for +6 total enhancement bonus
• armor of Freedom (+5 bonus) - ? Since this is effectively a +11 enhancement bonus armor and the chart only goes to +10, so at minimum 100,000.
• Crystal of Mind Cloaking - 10,000 go.

So excluding that there's no official pricing of items past +10 enhancement (maybe the ELH has more info on that?) we can only assume it's get exponentially higher in cost. I tried extrapolating the cost vs bonus from +6 to +10 but it's...weird. I'd say a round park number is +25,000 for a +11 total enhancement bonus.

With that all added up, you're looking at an item that has a price of $135,160 gp. Then you're adding magic spell-like abilities to them based on HD....I dunno maybe another could of thousand? So roughly $140 to $150,160 gp?

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

555 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  00:55:58  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

So the item pricing is pretty off.

• Masterwork leather - 160 gp
• +5 armor enhancement - 25,000 to
• Death Ward armor enhancement (+1 bonus) - +11,000 for +6 total enhancement bonus
• armor of Freedom (+5 bonus) - ? Since this is effectively a +11 enhancement bonus armor and the chart only goes to +10, so at minimum 100,000.
• Crystal of Mind Cloaking - 10,000 go.


I'm sorry about the typo. It was supposed to be 180,150 gp. I just noticed it. Thank you!
So excluding that there's no official pricing of items past +10 enhancement (maybe the ELH has more info on that?) we can only assume it's get exponentially higher in cost. I tried extrapolating the cost vs bonus from +6 to +10 but it's...weird. I'd say a round park number is +25,000 for a +11 total enhancement bonus.

With that all added up, you're looking at an item that has a price of $135,160 gp. Then you're adding magic spell-like abilities to them based on HD....I dunno maybe another could of thousand? So roughly $140 to $150,160 gp?




I'm sorry about the typo. It was supposed to be 180,150 gp. I just noticed it. Thank you!

Edited by - Copper Elven Vampire on 12 Sep 2019 02:37:52
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3656 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  01:11:22  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No prob, and 180k seems about right. Otherwise, solid divine item.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1466 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  02:11:24  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, let's ignore the relic ability.

Key rule:
Use the guidelines for nonepic magic items to determine the market price of an epic magic item, with one addition: If the item gives a bonus beyond the limit allowed in for normal, nonepic magic items, multiply the portion of the market price derived from that characteristic by 10. Some epic characteristics, such as caster level, don’t trigger this multiplier.

So, for nonepic, a +11 armor would be 11 * 11 * 1,000 = 121,000 gp. However, Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses).

Since +5 armor would be worth 25,000 gp, that means the true cost is 25,000 + (121,000 - 25,000) * 10 = 25,000 + 960,000 = 985,000 gp.

Then on top of that, you want to add a +10,000 gp property. That constitutes a "multiple different ability."
Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

That adds 10,000 * 1.5 = 15,000 gp.

So total cost is 1,000,160 gp.

Now, the relic ability doesn't actually cost anything, but you didn't specify it correctly:

Here's a sample paragraph:

To use the relic power, you must worship Obad-Hai and either sacrifice a 4th-level divine spell slot or have the True Believer feat and at least 7 HD. If you sacrifice a 6th-level divine slot (or have the True Believer feat and at least 11 HD), you can use the relic power two times per day.

So you are putting multiple shapechange slots on the armor, which is a 9th level spell. I would guess the language is something like this, but I can't find an epic relic example.:

To use the relic power, you must worship Erevan and either sacrifice a 9th-level divine spell slot or have the True Believer feat and at least 17 HD. If you sacrifice 2 9th-level divine slots (or have the True Believer feat and at least 21 HD), you can use the relic power two times per day.

--Eric

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

555 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  22:04:34  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

So, let's ignore the relic ability.

Key rule:
Use the guidelines for nonepic magic items to determine the market price of an epic magic item, with one addition: If the item gives a bonus beyond the limit allowed in for normal, nonepic magic items, multiply the portion of the market price derived from that characteristic by 10. Some epic characteristics, such as caster level, don’t trigger this multiplier.

So, for nonepic, a +11 armor would be 11 * 11 * 1,000 = 121,000 gp. However, Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses).

Since +5 armor would be worth 25,000 gp, that means the true cost is 25,000 + (121,000 - 25,000) * 10 = 25,000 + 960,000 = 985,000 gp.

Then on top of that, you want to add a +10,000 gp property. That constitutes a "multiple different ability."
Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

That adds 10,000 * 1.5 = 15,000 gp.

So total cost is 1,000,160 gp.

Now, the relic ability doesn't actually cost anything, but you didn't specify it correctly:

Here's a sample paragraph:

To use the relic power, you must worship Obad-Hai and either sacrifice a 4th-level divine spell slot or have the True Believer feat and at least 7 HD. If you sacrifice a 6th-level divine slot (or have the True Believer feat and at least 11 HD), you can use the relic power two times per day.

So you are putting multiple shapechange slots on the armor, which is a 9th level spell. I would guess the language is something like this, but I can't find an epic relic example.:

To use the relic power, you must worship Erevan and either sacrifice a 9th-level divine spell slot or have the True Believer feat and at least 17 HD. If you sacrifice 2 9th-level divine slots (or have the True Believer feat and at least 21 HD), you can use the relic power two times per day.

--Eric




Yikes! lol. Wow, I'm not even close to coming to all that math as well and specific as that. :) I'm very grateful to you for this extra information. Yes, I totally forgot the Relic requirements and will certainly remedy that with this Armor and my Chaotic swords thread http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22751.

After doing the math with you and Diffan earlier, I get it now and am glad for it. Thanks. I've still a lot to learn even after 20 years of making PrC's and base classes for FR as homebrew.

I really wouldn't mind a critique on "The Chaos-bringers of Vezzenvazzle Ahmaquissar" either. lol. I'll make the changes to this armor after I'm done moving this weekend. Thanks for your help.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
1466 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2019 :  23:46:29  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

So you are putting multiple shapechange slots on the armor, which is a 9th level spell. I would guess the language is something like this, but I can't find an epic relic example.:

To use the relic power, you must worship Erevan and either sacrifice a 9th-level divine spell slot or have the True Believer feat and at least 17 HD. If you sacrifice 2 9th-level divine slots (or have the True Believer feat and at least 21 HD), you can use the relic power two times per day.

--Eric




After thinking about this, I would amend it 2 ways. First, it really should have been an 11th level spot, not 2 9th level spots. I forgot you can create an 11th slot with Improved Spellcasting Ability.

Second, I think I would require a new epic feat, Epic True Believer to access that level of power.I might even require an intermediate feat, called Improved True Believer to access a significant level of power. So I might come away with something like:

To use the relic power, you must worship Erevan and either sacrifice a 9th-level divine spell slot or have the Improved True Believer feat and at least 17 HD. If you sacrifice an 11th-level divine slot (or have the Epic True Believer feat and at least 21 HD), you can use the relic power two times per day.

Epic True Believer is an epic feat and has Improved True Believer as a pre-req. Improved True Believer has True Believer as a prereq. You can probably deduce the flavor text, etc.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

555 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2019 :  03:05:53  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd

So you are putting multiple shapechange slots on the armor, which is a 9th level spell. I would guess the language is something like this, but I can't find an epic relic example.:

To use the relic power, you must worship Erevan and either sacrifice a 9th-level divine spell slot or have the True Believer feat and at least 17 HD. If you sacrifice 2 9th-level divine slots (or have the True Believer feat and at least 21 HD), you can use the relic power two times per day.

--Eric




After thinking about this, I would amend it 2 ways. First, it really should have been an 11th level spot, not 2 9th level spots. I forgot you can create an 11th slot with Improved Spellcasting Ability.

Second, I think I would require a new epic feat, Epic True Believer to access that level of power.I might even require an intermediate feat, called Improved True Believer to access a significant level of power. So I might come away with something like:

To use the relic power, you must worship Erevan and either sacrifice a 9th-level divine spell slot or have the Improved True Believer feat and at least 17 HD. If you sacrifice an 11th-level divine slot (or have the Epic True Believer feat and at least 21 HD), you can use the relic power two times per day.

Epic True Believer is an epic feat and has Improved True Believer as a pre-req. Improved True Believer has True Believer as a prereq. You can probably deduce the flavor text, etc.




That's actually a mechanically great idea that would work better with both game play and flavor as well. I'm having issues with the disguise spells, or alter spells or shape change spells. It makes the armor, but I can't figure out how to imply that with the relic ability only being used 2 times a day at max.
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