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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 04:14:48
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Does anyone know any listing of official/actual magical gesturing and/or command words when casting spells? The only time Ive seen anything close to this would be in the FR games (Baldur's Gate, ect) when a spell is cast. My thanks
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Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 04:26:45
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I think its been very intentional that specific "magic words" and "magic gestures" have never been introduced. While several novels brook the subject (becuase it gets boring to just keep saying "he cast the spell"), but the rulebooks and sourcebooks shy away from it.
One of the thing that many D&D detractors have said over the years is that D&D "teaches those who play it magickal rituals." Many supposed experts swear the D&D "presents real world rituals." Then the rest of us ask how M, S, V, teaches you how to cast a spell. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 05:53:55
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| Haha aye, I have heard such thoughts as well. Rediculus. |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 14:19:12
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While there are few actual incidents of complete spell incantations being written out, you can probably get some "flavor" from reviewing some of the "Elminster" series. There are several points where things like command words or the single word to complete a spell are bantered about.
I'm thinking that KE Jr has the right of it and the lack of full presentation is probably something that has been conciously avoided, but for the sake of your own campaigns, something of this nature might add flavor.
(*Side personal note as a sometimes semi-practicing almost pagan, I find the thought of shouting gibberish to achieve a magikal effect ludicrous. Might as well howl at the moon while yer at it.*) |
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 23:39:09
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I remember reading something, I think it was an old Dragon article, that had a few suggestions on this.
I only remember because it was so silly.
One suggestion was to use the command word "Zippo" for a fire based spell.
(*side personal note, as a neo-pagan and unofficial student of the practices of the tradition of the Golden Dawn and other similar traditions, I find the idea of using words to achieve a magical effect true to flavor of the wizard*) |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 00:45:40
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There is some information in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical about words of activation for items on p.32 & 33. It even has a list of magic words. It is available for free download from the WotC downloads site. Check it out at this link here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_downloads/tsr9535.zip
I thought that there was maybe something about verbal components in there too but I couldn't find it.
Maybe in Kuje's compilation of Ed's Answers there might have been some info about verbal components of spells.
Somewhere online is a chart of latin names for spells in the SRD. I thought that list makes for really good verbal components. A quick google search yields this link here: http://www.gamewyrd.com/archives/latin.php |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 02:32:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Maybe in Kuje's compilation of Ed's Answers there might have been some info about verbal components of spells.
Not directly. There are a few references though to verbal components as an aspect of spellcasting.
Still, this would make a very intriguing question to pose to Ed. I'd certainly look forward to reading what he has to say on the subject.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 14:12:44
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Just a stray thought here....
Yes, the spells with a verbal component need something. Depending on your school of thought, it's got to be one particular word or it's got to be however you learned it.
From my POV, I'm thinking that the intent and the emotion/drive/energy behind it is far more important than the actual words. This is how characters can cast without words--they're more focused (or they've taken some jim-dandy feat) and don't need to speak their intents out loud.
One way to play with it on personal / character levels is this idea:
Tie each spell the person knows to an emotion or a feeling;
link that emotion/feeling/spell to a person that character knows;
use the other character's name as the activating word.
Thus, for a charm spell, "I'll always think about Alarua, that lovely farmer's daughter on whom I had my first crush. For every fire-based spell, I'll use the many nicknames I had for my first wife, the tempermental harpy..." ad nauseum... 
As I said, just an idea..... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 15:22:27
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Yes, in earlier editions it did seem more like "you memorize these words and gestures and do it exactly like this and the spell happens," but in third edition we did get a more interesting explanation, that is you spend in hour in the morning doing the real work, getting the spells primed and set up, and then what you do when you want them to go off is use some kind of trigger.
Which works much better with what the esteemed Steven has said. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 18:03:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
There is some information in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical about words of activation for items on p.32 & 33. It even has a list of magic words. It is available for free download from the WotC downloads site. Check it out at this link here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_downloads/tsr9535.zip
I thought that there was maybe something about verbal components in there too but I couldn't find it.
Maybe in Kuje's compilation of Ed's Answers there might have been some info about verbal components of spells.
Somewhere online is a chart of latin names for spells in the SRD. I thought that list makes for really good verbal components. A quick google search yields this link here: http://www.gamewyrd.com/archives/latin.php
Ah, I shall have to take a look at that tome more closely. My thanks. As well to the other scribes who posted their own thoughts and views. Interesting ideas. |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 20:13:16
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quote:
When my players were in the mood for “full” roleplaying, they’d make up incantations (usually a nonsense “Abracadabra”-like word for a word of activation or the last/trigger word, preceded by a rhyming couplet (here’s the one for fireball, which has no last trigger word: “By tongue of bat and sulphur’s reek/And the mystic words I now do speak/Where I wish to strike my bane/Let empty air burst into -- FLAME!”).
The version in All Shadows Fled is:quote:
By dung of bat and sulphur’s reek
And mystic words I now do speak—
Ashtyn orthruu angcoug laen—
Let empty air burst into—flame!
And a Tymoran one for detect evil, in Spellfire:quote:
By Tymora’s power and Tymora’s grace,
Be revealed now wherever I face,
All lives and things that evil be
Unveiled truly now before me!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 21:25:50
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Personally, for spells and command words, I prefer the made-up, "gibberish" words.
Why? Two reasons.
One: I don't care for rhymes, especially forced rhymes. I also don't want to have to think up some silly little peom just to cast a spell.
Two: Going for the made-up words makes it different, more mysterious. The poetic approach makes it seem like any person who could recite a poem could create a spell -- no mystery or work, there. Having to say "Skibn tassarik milsen gederth" or somesuch puts it outside the realm of what anyone could do, and it invokes the unknown. It is to me, the more flavorful approach. It feels like magic, not poetry. |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 22:07:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Personally, for spells and command words, I prefer the made-up, "gibberish" words.
Why? Two reasons.
One: I don't care for rhymes, especially forced rhymes. I also don't want to have to think up some silly little peom just to cast a spell.
Two: Going for the made-up words makes it different, more mysterious. The poetic approach makes it seem like any person who could recite a poem could create a spell -- no mystery or work, there. Having to say "Skibn tassarik milsen gederth" or somesuch puts it outside the realm of what anyone could do, and it invokes the unknown. It is to me, the more flavorful approach. It feels like magic, not poetry.
Oh, c'mon, Wooly....
I just know that you must've uttered "By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth!" a few times when casting an ice storm or "By the Flickering Flames of Faltine!" for a fireball....
Steven
Who's only favorite rhyming spells are Doctor Strange's....though the lovely ladies on CHARMED, while silly, make it awfully easy on the eyes toward accepting rhyming spells.... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2005 : 22:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
.though the lovely ladies on CHARMED, while silly, make it awfully easy on the eyes toward accepting rhyming spells....
I must have a jandiced eye, "lovely ladies" ?
As for ryming goes, that might be a factor of one version of the rede that calls for incantations to rhyme. I say might because they got so many other things wrong. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2005 : 01:25:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Oh, c'mon, Wooly....
I just know that you must've uttered "By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth!" a few times when casting an ice storm or "By the Flickering Flames of Faltine!" for a fireball....
Steven
Who's only favorite rhyming spells are Doctor Strange's...
'Tis funny you mention the Sorcerer Supreme's penchant for rhyming spellcasting phrases because that is exactly the model I've used on some occasions.
During the early 90's, the then-current writer of the comic published an entire full page (in the letters section) of some of Strange's most memorable command words for spells. I refer to it regularly, sometimes replacing the names of Hoggoth, Faltine, Citorack, or Vishanti, with Realms-appropriate titles. It works well enough to make my players believe that these are actual FR-based phrases for spells.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2005 : 01:32:53
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| Heh, I was just thinking of the old Dragon articles with El and Dalamar and Mordenkainen, and extrapolating the meeting to see Doctor Strange and Doctor Fate popping in for a visit as well . . . |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 00:37:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Personally, for spells and command words, I prefer the made-up, "gibberish" words.
Why? Two reasons.
One: I don't care for rhymes, especially forced rhymes. I also don't want to have to think up some silly little peom just to cast a spell.
Two: Going for the made-up words makes it different, more mysterious. The poetic approach makes it seem like any person who could recite a poem could create a spell -- no mystery or work, there. Having to say "Skibn tassarik milsen gederth" or somesuch puts it outside the realm of what anyone could do, and it invokes the unknown. It is to me, the more flavorful approach. It feels like magic, not poetry.
I agree |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Forge
Learned Scribe
USA
218 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2005 : 14:59:23
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Another angle here... Divine spells are, in essence, just a prayer to the patron diety in question, and may well be phrased as a common-words prayer, rhyme(sp) or chant. In "Song of the Saurials" a priestess of Melil cast a spell by simply concentrating and humming the appropriate tune.
In contrast, Arcane spells are ones composed of words of power in combination or alone (as in "Power Word: X"). Perhaps it makes sense for these to be "gibberish" as they were not MEANT to be understood or retained by the uninitiated. |
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Spell Gesturing and Command Words
