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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 06:20:41
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I'm not sure why the font came out that way. Anyhow, you get the idea now.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 06:39:06
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| Your use of Moander reminds me that I ought to include something Moander-ish in my Current Clack scroll. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 06:53:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Your use of Moander reminds me that I ought to include something Moander-ish in my Current Clack scroll.
Moander approves.
I jokingly offed Elminster with bread.
That makes me think of bread mold.
Maybe the absurd death, while funny, isn't as useful as a grisly fate in the mouth of Moander?
I might go with this if I shift the Yellow Rot to the Dales/Cormanthyr region, instead of Evermeet.
It ties together rather nicely.
EDIT:
Hmmm, I note that Desertsedge Mountains (I think this is the same thing as the Desertmouth Mountains, yeah?) outside the Dales is one of the regions set aside for home game development, like Sembia.
.
I rather like the idea of using one of those regions.
I know from later published stuff that it's near some sites associated with Moander. I might cherry pick a few suitable bits from such later sources.
It's also near Anauroch, the Dales, and Cormyr, which looks pretty good to me.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 19 Jan 2015 07:57:28 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 09:39:14
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VERSION TWO
Here's a more compact version, with a tighter geographic focus:
Forgotten Realms-
DR 1357
Basis: the Old Gray Box, selected material from early run of Dragon articles, and some material taken from later sources
Some noteworthy changes:
• Elminster= deceased
According to his terrified scribe, the sage perished (INSERT RECENT DATE) in the ruins of Yulash, the victim of a “rotting monster, like a hill that walked”
Shadowdale locals avoid his abandoned home. At least five parties of robbers have died or vanished trying to break into the tower.
• Elven Court lands= Bad case of a yeast infection.
Moander never forgets. Moander repays.
The Yellow Rot spread with astonishing swiftness, bursting from puffballs hidden in temples and shrines of the Seldarine. Many elf clerics died first, and their loss hampered efforts to stop the pestilence. Infected refugees spread the plague to nearby lands.
• Knights of Myth Drannor= TPK during dungeon crawl
These adventurers perished in the dungeon known as Whisper’s Crypt, in 1355 DR.
• Yellow Rot (new):
Appeared first in 13XX (date TBD) DR.
The Yellow Rot affects half-elves and drow as it does surface elves; fatality resulting in seven of ten cases. The disease leaves elves who survive it scarred, sometimes also insane.
Humans experience the Yellow Rot as a rash; unsightly and painful but not fatal. It spreads by close contact.
Now, pity and disgust color public reaction towards elves in the nearby human lands.
Half-orcs appear to be completely immune to this pestilence.
'reserve' areas to be developed further in game:
Desertsedge Mountains (outside Dales)
possibly some notes on Sembia
Other possible changes:
Khelben Arunsun and the Simbul dead.
Maybe Alustriel.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 19 Jan 2015 09:50:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 15:23:27
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
EDIT- I think you might be a bit confused by one of my posts. That's no doubt my fault; I may not have provided enough context.
I wasn't writing that I killed Khelben in order to open a slot for a Masked Lord.
Nope.
That particular comment in my second post was a note about possible in-game ramifications of his demise.
I apologize if I was unclear about any of this earlier.
And thanks for the canon-lore checks.
Ah, okay. That makes more sense, then.
Not my cup of tea, these changes, but not my game, either. 
And the colors went wonky in your post because the forum code has issues with multiple nested quotes. |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 20:08:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
EDIT- I think you might be a bit confused by one of my posts. That's no doubt my fault; I may not have provided enough context.
I wasn't writing that I killed Khelben in order to open a slot for a Masked Lord.
Nope.
That particular comment in my second post was a note about possible in-game ramifications of his demise.
I apologize if I was unclear about any of this earlier.
And thanks for the canon-lore checks.
Ah, okay. That makes more sense, then.
Not my cup of tea, these changes, but not my game, either.
And the colors went wonky in your post because the forum code has issues with multiple nested quotes.
Kewl beans.
I just didn't want you to think I was ''shouting."
:)
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 23:41:20
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Have you thought about what the Yellow Rot will do to the drow of the Underdark?
Not specifically how it will effect the drow race (you addressed that) but to what extent the rot has found a foothold in the lands below? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 02:19:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Have you thought about what the Yellow Rot will do to the drow of the Underdark?
Not specifically how it will effect the drow race (you addressed that) but to what extent the rot has found a foothold in the lands below?
I like the idea of the puffballs spreading into the Underdark.
And, to address concerns up-thread that I'm just pounding on the good guys, let me tell you I certainly don't mind slapping some the drow cities and bases with something nasty. ;)
What might be interesting is myconids weaponizing the new species for use against the drow. They don't need to worship Moander.
It's just the pragmatic Lawful Netrual 'shroom man approach to de-dark-elf-ication of cavern space. Sort of like humans in our world using fungicides.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 20 Jan 2015 02:19:56 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 02:25:31
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I am curious about the real motivation behind your Yellow Rot.
I'm not quite an elf-hater, but I certainly have no love for elves. Call me, perhaps, an elf-disliker. Elves in themselves are just another annoying creature I have no difficulty accepting, alongside leprechauns and kender and Manshoons. Elven dominance of the Realms, in a recurring thematic context, anyhow, is what bugs me. PCs overenthused with uninformed elf-love bugs me. Drow walking openly in the surface world bug me. But I realize my bias for what it is and wouldn't impose it upon my entire world, wouldn't impose it upon my players (unless we could all unreservedly assent to the notion). Like it or not, elves are deeply embedded within the Realms, and removing them by any means (surgical, genocidal, or apocalyptic) will echo subtle and profound effects on the Realms as a whole.
The Dark Sun comparison might be alluding to the complete extinction of a once-powerful race which had mastery of the world. And even there, while they as a people are long gone and half forgotten, they continue to shape the peoples and the world on which they once dwelled. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 02:31:51
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| It'd be interesting (to me, as a player) if Moander's Yellow Rot rode the souls of dead elves to Arvandor, so that it could begin its real purpose: rotting out the elven pantheon and leaving a real mess behind that Moander could occupy and so raise his power level by several orders of magnitude. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 02:55:39
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| That is a pretty ambitious plan, Jeremy. I dig it. |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 03:09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
It'd be interesting (to me, as a player) if Moander's Yellow Rot rode the souls of dead elves to Arvandor, so that it could begin its real purpose: rotting out the elven pantheon and leaving a real mess behind that Moander could occupy and so raise his power level by several orders of magnitude.
Ooooooohhhhhh...
Me likely.
:()
RE: some power balance and canon lore stuff people asked about upthread:
I'm drafting some alternate approaches to reducing some of the "mega" NPCs and related metaplot without killing quite so many people. I'd super dooper appreciate feedback on that. It's coming up very soon, as in the next few minutes.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 04:19:01
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Alternate possibilities:
1- Toning down the Seven Sisters without changing Gray Box canon:
Ignore all that later stuff about “The Seven Sisters” and base the family of “famous sisters” on what’s revealed in the Gray Box. If this source doesn’t assign something extraordinary that is revealed or invented in later publications, then make different assumptions. So, they aren’t Chosen of Mystra with lots of special powers, they aren’t quasi-immortal and they aren’t hundreds of years old.
Nor are they all claiming Mystra as patroness (at least one has Milill as her patron).
There’s no drow sister. There may not be a full seven of them.
2- Elminster the Godless, deceased in Yulash, recent event:
The Gray Box lists him as having no patron god. Fine, let’s roll with that. He had come to think of himself as not needing the patronage of one of the Powers. He doesn’t deny the existence of the gods, but he no longer pays them the worship and service that most people do. That overconfidence and impiety may have contributed to his demise in the ruins of Yulash.
Ignore all canon about him being the lover of Mystra, a Chosen, and all that stuff not detailed in the Gray Box.
His death sets up the “rob Elminster’s house—if you dare!” adventure possibility.
4. Write my own version of Alustriel
I don’t see a full NPC listing for her in the Gray box’s DM’s Guide to the Realms.
I could keep the tub full of acid, but say she survived the attempt on her life. This event could be tied to whatever chain of events (probably not well known to people outside elite circles) that led to the deaths of those three archmages.
5. Leave the Knights of Myth Drannor Alive
If I’m going to kill Elminster, Khelben, and The Simbul, maybe I’ll leave the Knights alive to carry on the good fight. They’ll have their hands full, and may be travelling a bit further from Shadowdale to deal with bad guys and evil plots.
6. Whisper’s return
Bring him back as a ghost or some sort of undead.
7. Kill Manshoon?
I haven’t got anything against him. He looks like a perfectly “good” evil overlord type. He’s also ten levels lower than Elminster, and thus likely not a personal match for any of the “big three” I’m whacking. But I don’t have any strong investment in him, either. If people are really concerned that killing Elmsinter, The Simbul, and Khelben stacks the deck too much in favor of the Zhentarim, I am down for the Harpers managing a counterstrike that takes out Manshoon. This would probably set off some kind of power struggle inside the Zhentarim, which would blunt their relative advantage until the new leadership had established firm control.
--Any or all of these might be used in combination. Thoughts?
EDIT
Really divergent (from Gray box) possibility-
Simply make Elminster a sage, as readers of the earliest FR-related articles in Dragon might have assumed based on the limited information they had about him. (I don't recall which article it is that Greenwood first drops heavy hints about him being very high level and very old; but I think's possibly the one with magical cloaks).
Sure, he likely knows some spells, but mainly he relies on knowledge, not magical might. He's not hundreds of years old. He's not the prince of a lost realm. He's not Mystra's lover. None of that stuff that was revealed or developed later.
I like this idea, but I'm not sure if it would work in play. Players might just be too attached to the official version, love it or hate it,to make the separation.
If you were a player, would you prefer:
Elminster was a hyper-powerful, ancient mage, who is now all kinds of dead.
Elminster is a mortal sage of modest magical power but considerable knowledge, who wants to be left alone but sometimes helps adventurers or asks them to do stuff for him.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 20 Jan 2015 04:56:14 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jan 2015 : 23:43:12
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| Have the best of both worlds and make Elminster a lich in disguise? Szass Tam gets away with the deception (at least in public) while front and center in a wolfpack of suspicious scheming ruthlessly amoral (and magically powerful) Red Wizards. Elminster could easily deceive a bunch of half-inbred uneducated simpletons who reside in the Dales. Perhaps other wizards of note - Khelben and the Seven and crusty old Vangerdahast - are also liches/undead in disguise, perhaps they aren't but (like the Reds vs Szassy) they aren't foolish enough to suicide themselves by openly calling Elminster out. |
[/Ayrik] |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2015 : 04:33:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Have the best of both worlds and make Elminster a lich in disguise? Szass Tam gets away with the deception (at least in public) while front and center in a wolfpack of suspicious scheming ruthlessly amoral (and magically powerful) Red Wizards. Elminster could easily deceive a bunch of half-inbred uneducated simpletons who reside in the Dales. Perhaps other wizards of note - Khelben and the Seven and crusty old Vangerdahast - are also liches/undead in disguise, perhaps they aren't but (like the Reds vs Szassy) they aren't foolish enough to suicide themselves by openly calling Elminster out.
LICH-MINSTER.
Nice.
:) |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 00:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
--Any or all of these might be used in combination. Thoughts?
Regarding all of those--and Elminster in particular--I say that if your goal is to present at the outset to your players all these changes as part of selling your campaign (on the assumption they'll like/be satisfied by the de-powering) then go for it.
However, if all of this won't come up at the gaming table, I say either forget about all these high-powered NPCs or elect to keep them as aces up your sleeve to burn when you need an out, or when you need entertainment (Elminster slowly roasting on a spit while some hungry rot-infested elves that now serve Moander salivate nearby, for example).
I was thinking about Moander in general--I really like it as a deity--and this idea struck me: what if Moander went all in?
Suppose it divested itself of its divine home and emerged out of all the portals in Myth Drannor at once, overwhelming the elves, consuming their magic, the mythal, and the immense power guarded by the baelnorns and contained in the many crypts below the city.
So the yellow rot becomes divine: it's literally Moander's essence supercharged by magic beyond measure, slaying elves and any Chosen trying to keep the deity from doing so much damage to the Weave. This would explain how the rot spread so fast and was so effective.
This is also how the rot can ride spirits into the afterlife, because no active divinity was meant to linger on the Prime for long.
For PCs, the classic high level/epic adventure is to confront the big bad evil guy on its home plane. If Moander's not there, then when the PCs get through the rot-infested woods of Cormanthor, survive the dangers of Myth Drannor and its defenses all turned against them, and they walk through any of the city's portals--because they all lead to Moander's (now empty) home plane--they'll get far enough into it to discover he's not there right as it starts falling apart around them.
Without a divine anchor, Moander's home won't last forever. So a plan to slay a god becomes a plan to escape.
After that, the PCs can figure out how to get to Arvandor to deal with Moander while the gods literally battle all around them (fun backdrop, that; I know from experience running something like it) and maybe tip the balance one way or the other, which is what heroic characters are supposed to do. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 22 Jan 2015 00:55:49 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 02:13:08
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That's some pretty cool Moander stuff, dude.
I like it.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 07:12:09
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Also, a safer way to have deities/avatars involved in an adventure... they're fighting their own battles, perhaps mostly offstage, and the PCs are around the edges as agents/infiltrators/negotiators/assassins. Rather than the PCs directly confronting gods -- "does a 27 hit Lathander's AC?" -- they're more like sappers, enabling the deities to be larger than life and the 4th wall to remain intact. Lots of intrigue, and opportunities for not realizing who they're actually helping.
I admit I'm just rambling off onto my own tangents. But I dig it too. |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2015 : 20:12:43
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That is a good idea Jeremy Grenemyer!
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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FR game based on Gray Box, some changes
