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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Sep 2014 : 21:35:16
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Ok so I'm looking to run a new D&D:Next / 5E campaign and while I hear good things about the published adventures for 5E, the wife wouldn't be too happy with me spending funds on new games with a baby only a few months away. Therefore I'm going to convert some of the free ones found online.
Which brings me to Curse of Menstaugher Manor (the link goes directly to the adventure PFD). In this adventure, written for 3E, it goes on to explain how these Giant adolescences get into a "haunted house" and become lost. And it's important for them to be found and unharmed for the two tribes will start war in the streets. There's also a lot of political intrigue and factions all in it for their own reasons like revenge and for coin and stuff like that.
The Adventure uses a lot of unique and non-human races which I'll mostly likely change to more common, non-human races. They talk about fey-like beings which I'll change to half-elves the Giant race to Orcs. I'm going to place the setting of the adventure in Phlan, along the Moonsea which ties into the whole backstory of Menstaugher. But I need more background when it comes to the politics of the city. Are the Zhents still in control? Practically nothing was given during 4E's run and while I don't wholly mind going at it with all my own ideas, I honestly don't have time for all the work. So, I'm taking suggestions on things like Government and religion.
For example, I'm thinking of having the Zhentarim practically running the show in Phlan and there's a group of insurgents of Torm sort of ruining their plans here and there. Stuff like that.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2014 : 22:12:45
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What a strange story.
I probably don't have any insights/sources on Phlan that you don't already have, so I'll ask the annoying questions instead. Why not pick a city that requires less work? And while you're at it, an adventure that won't require as many total rewrites of NPCs? ...told you they were annoying questions. 
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2014 : 03:53:54
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
What a strange story.
Indeed, it is pretty strange. I think it's largely due to the fact that SO many of the races are all sorts of non-humanoids from one specific setting. However I feel they're there just to integrate the races inside the book it's promoting. In all honestly, it's the political intrigue that seems like fun and I think I can twist that towards various factions warring for power in a local city.
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
I probably don't have any insights/sources on Phlan that you don't already have, so I'll ask the annoying questions instead. Why not pick a city that requires less work?
Well for starters I wanted to keep the plot about the man-turned-wraith/shadow etc. a Pirate hunter and the city as a coastal one. Phlan is far more seedy in it's dealings and is often known for skullduggery and cloak and dagger goings on. Not to mention that I like Phlan and have a beautiful map for it found HERE.
Additionally, since I was thinking about changing the Giants in the adventure to Orcs the Moonsea and especially Thar make a good backdrop from which the Orcs have come from.
Finally, I wanted to really touch on the Zhent strength in the region and possibly explore the idea of having the city being run by a Zhentarim warlord who's not terribly evil in the "Muahahahaha sense" but more of a less or two evils sense. The people actually sort of like the guy even though he does rule with an iron fist. And I like the idea of a religions rebellion dedicated to Torm (thinking Eye of Justice here) that have been foiling any Bane-based operations in the area.
But I started this thread to get feedback and if you have a better location and ideas I'd love to hear them. I thought about doing a Sword Coast city but none really come to mind that fit the description of dark and seedy besides Luskan and I'm sorta sick of reading and hearing about that particular city.
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
And while you're at it, an adventure that won't require as many total rewrites of NPCs? ...told you they were annoying questions.
Actually they're good points that you bring up, so thank you in that regard. As for the NPCs, I don't plan on doing many (of any) of their stats and just changing things around to fit a more Realms-based setting. Giants wil be Orcs, Spryte will be half-elves or maybe even a Moon Elf, and the Litorians (I'm assuming Cat-people) will be just be humans. The backstory of the town is pretty irrelevant to the adventure and more focused on the setting, which I'm changing anyways.
As for the monsters, that's not too difficult to just plug-and-play as they come up in the game. It's only for 1st and 2nd level characters SO I'm assuming it's easier to adjudicate the circumstances for the adventure.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2014 : 16:26:15
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Fair enough. I like the idea of a not-terribly-evil Zhentarim ruling the city... being pragmatic rather than evil-for-its-own-sake enables him/her to be an effective ruler. Efficient. Wastes no/little time on diplomacy, simply gets things done in the most expedient manner. I also like the idea of religious factions opposing him/her based more on the administration's perceived ties to Bane and the Zhentarim, with little/no factual grasp of this individual leader's reasoning/deeds. This almost makes the "good guys" pariahs who are marginalized or even quietly opposed by the local populace which admires the leader in spite of the affiliation with the Zhentarim. There might even be talk of the leader being "the first good thing out of Zhentil Keep" or counter-rumors that he/she can't possibly be Zhentarim, or maybe the Zhentarim isn't as bad as we thought, etc. It might be the first place in the Realms that a member of the Zhentarim is given a fair shake and *allowed* to be an individual instead of assumed to be evil based on keeping bad company. I'm reading a lot into your ideas, I know.
That raises the question of whether this warlord is actually loyal to the Zhentarim, and following orders as they're given, or whether they're being filtered/interpreted/procrastinated in the best interest of the town. Has the leader been grudgingly "won over" by the charms of the city and its hardy citizens, to where he/she begins to want to do what's best for the citizens rather than what's best for the Zhentarim? Or at least, is there a struggle to unite/blend those interests?
If the Zhentarim gets wind of the city's leader "getting soft" then they'll send spies to find out whether replacement is in order. The followers of Torm/whoever will also try to plant spies in the government, to get advance warning of the leader's plans and movements around the city. Adventurers may be hired by the Zhentarim and the churches for assassinations, and by the leader's government for defense purposes... so there will probably be lots of NPC adventurers, both individuals and groups.
I read the "rat people" as wererats, and I wouldn't want them to account for a huge percentage of the city's population but wererats are reasonable in a port city. There might even be quite a few of them in the dock district, and sewers if you give the city a Waterdeep-esque sewer network.
As far as locations, I don't have any distinctly better recommendations. Especially if you want to use the Zhentarim I think Phlan is a cool choice for the reasons you've given. Athkatla could probably work for the Sword Coast... or Velen, seeing as how it's near the Nelanther.
A city of Impiltur (Dilpur or Sarshel maybe) could be interesting, to flip the perspective... the leader could be a LN agent of the crown instead of an evil organization, perhaps looked at as a despot instead of "the first good Zhentarim" by the populace, and the outsiders would be agents of Soneillon instead of Torm. And you still have pirates.
Airspur in Chessenta is another place for intrigue, though I'm falling way back to 2e lore here. I guess everything on the south side of the Inner Sea went wacko in 4e, but if we're assuming that the Sundering is undoing the Returned Abeir bit then the area should revert somewhat to its 3e state, which means Airspur has human/orc/half-orc native populations, with spies from various other city-states trying to infiltrate/sabotage everything, plus the followers of Tchazzar trying to take over. And there are pirates in the area here too. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2014 : 21:22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Fair enough. I like the idea of a not-terribly-evil Zhentarim ruling the city... being pragmatic rather than evil-for-its-own-sake enables him/her to be an effective ruler. Efficient. Wastes no/little time on diplomacy, simply gets things done in the most expedient manner. I also like the idea of religious factions opposing him/her based more on the administration's perceived ties to Bane and the Zhentarim, with little/no factual grasp of this individual leader's reasoning/deeds. This almost makes the "good guys" pariahs who are marginalized or even quietly opposed by the local populace which admires the leader in spite of the affiliation with the Zhentarim. There might even be talk of the leader being "the first good thing out of Zhentil Keep" or counter-rumors that he/she can't possibly be Zhentarim, or maybe the Zhentarim isn't as bad as we thought, etc. It might be the first place in the Realms that a member of the Zhentarim is given a fair shake and *allowed* to be an individual instead of assumed to be evil based on keeping bad company. I'm reading a lot into your ideas, I know.
No that's pretty much spot on to what I'm looking to doing. I think it puts the player characters into a strange situation: Help the Zhent-controlled government which, by public opinion, hasn't been doing too bad OR help the righteous yet-unfavorable resistance because their dogma and beliefs clash with that of the ruler's theology and religion?
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
That raises the question of whether this warlord is actually loyal to the Zhentarim, and following orders as they're given, or whether they're being filtered/interpreted/procrastinated in the best interest of the town. Has the leader been grudgingly "won over" by the charms of the city and its hardy citizens, to where he/she begins to want to do what's best for the citizens rather than what's best for the Zhentarim? Or at least, is there a struggle to unite/blend those interests?
The idea sprouted from looking at Ruined Zhentil Keep and figuring out how it ties into the 1480's DR. With the center of Zhent's power demolished, is the ruler of Phlan even getting orders or has the ruling of the town been pretty much left up to him for the long haul? I'm going to assume that in the century that has passed since Zhentil Keep's destruction a LOT of refugees have come into Phlan and made it their home, swelling their population. And because of that, many of them bring the faith of Bane with them. In the struggling Moonsea, Might makes Right is a way of thinking and if Bane gives you that might, then there's a sense of strength for those people.
The way I'm envisioning it so far is that the original Zhent ruler, in 1375 pretty much was a puppet for the Black Network and that lasted until Shade went to war with the Zhentarim. When that occurred, he lost most of the behind-the-scene voice that guided him and he was pretty much on his own. So he governed the best he could under the beliefs he was raised upon and in that really difficult, struggling time its what was needed the most: a strong, unwavering "iron fist" ruler to keep order and remove dissent in a growing chaos and it was good enough that the people didn't complain.
This is supported by FR-Wikipedia in this passage:
"During the Shadowbane War of 1383 DR however, Cvaal forged an alliance with the dark fey of the Quivering Forest and managed to slay a shadovar prince, thereby ensuring that his city did not meet the same fate as Zhentil Keep. The hearts of his subjects softened thanks to his valiant defense of the city and they accepted his rule with little complaint, allowing his dynasty to claim rights as monarchs. In turn, the rule of Cvaal's government and that of the local Church of Bane also softened."
So Cvaal's legacy continued as his heirs took control of the city and with each generation (into it's 3rd by now) the ties to the evil, iron-fisted Zhentarim have somewhat dwindled. They're still there and even the church of Bane operates openly but it's not the conniving tyranny that it once was.
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
If the Zhentarim gets wind of the city's leader "getting soft" then they'll send spies to find out whether replacement is in order. The followers of Torm/whoever will also try to plant spies in the government, to get advance warning of the leader's plans and movements around the city. Adventurers may be hired by the Zhentarim and the churches for assassinations, and by the leader's government for defense purposes... so there will probably be lots of NPC adventurers, both individuals and groups.
This is an excellent idea. I'm not sure what fashion the Zhentarim will take in 5E but suffice to say that because it's a faction within the game already, I can only assume it's attempting to retake the mantle for "most evil organization around". And if they catch wind of the newest ruler of Phlan becoming soft and not fulfilling Bane's and Zhent ideals, a replacement is a possibility. Thanks for the idea.
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
I read the "rat people" as wererats, and I wouldn't want them to account for a huge percentage of the city's population but wererats are reasonable in a port city. There might even be quite a few of them in the dock district, and sewers if you give the city a Waterdeep-esque sewer network.
My thoughts exactly. Not too hard to create as there are no Lycanthropes in the basic rules yet.
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
As far as locations, I don't have any distinctly better recommendations. Especially if you want to use the Zhentarim I think Phlan is a cool choice for the reasons you've given. Athkatla could probably work for the Sword Coast... or Velen, seeing as how it's near the Nelanther.
Athkatla is an interesting idea. I'd have to look up info on it and it gives me a nice reason to start playing Baldur's Gate: Shadow of Amn 
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
A city of Impiltur (Dilpur or Sarshel maybe) could be interesting, to flip the perspective... the leader could be a LN agent of the crown instead of an evil organization, perhaps looked at as a despot instead of "the first good Zhentarim" by the populace, and the outsiders would be agents of Soneillon instead of Torm. And you still have pirates.
Airspur in Chessenta is another place for intrigue, though I'm falling way back to 2e lore here. I guess everything on the south side of the Inner Sea went wacko in 4e, but if we're assuming that the Sundering is undoing the Returned Abeir bit then the area should revert somewhat to its 3e state, which means Airspur has human/orc/half-orc native populations, with spies from various other city-states trying to infiltrate/sabotage everything, plus the followers of Tchazzar trying to take over. And there are pirates in the area here too.
All great suggestions. I'll run through them and talk to my one buddy who's going to be playing too to get his take on them. Thanks for the ideas. |
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Christianmichael
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 07:18:47
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Hi all,
I'm the guy who wrote Curse of Menstaugher Manor. The reason why it had all sorts of strange races was because it was for Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed which used the 3.0 ruleset at the time that I wrote it. The module is over 11 years old I think. Arcana Unearthed had giants, faen (kind of fairies), sibbecai (anthro-dogs), litorians (anthro-lions), and some other races, different classes, tons of different feats, and tons of different spells. It was an enjoyable read. If I had my choice of converting the modules to the Realms, I would:
1. Make all the races fairly much human with the exception of the Merkan Wildstrider in which I would make him a wild elf in which he's part of a tribe that was at war with another tribe.
2. Lir-Tan and Ja-Rein were the giant houses, I would make them human or possibly dwarven (outcasts). Both houses are definitely neutral evil, but they will honor their agreements with the PC's. Their kids are chaotic neutral.
I think Phlan is a good place to place the adventure, but a coastal city is better like Luskan, because Luskan is a total slum, is ruled by various merchant captains and the arcane wizards and there's quite a few gangs that run the rest of the city. That's where I would set this module. If you set the module in Luskan, Merkan Wildstrider should be human from an Uthgardt tribe.
I did get a chance to run this adventure with my gaming group. It was too tough for them back with 3.0, but I'm not familiar with 5E (the wife doesn't let me play anymore), so I'm not sure if the monsters in here would end up still being too tough for a party of six. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 08:27:33
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Thanks for the insight and suggestions Christianmichael. Much appreciated.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 09:12:01
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| Wow, thanks for the insight and suggestions. We just got copies of all the books for 5e so when I get a chance to pull everything together, I'll start converting the adventure. And putting it in Luskan is a cool idea. |
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Christianmichael
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 16:03:38
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| I did get to see a blog where someone had posted their play-by-play experience. Their blog is gone now, but they did a couple of things that I thought was cool. The first was they took my map and blew it up to gaming table size for miniatures. The second was the story of Calessa and made her a ghost who would frighten the hell out of the PC's, but yet provide some measure of help. |
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Curse of Menstaugher Manor - 5E Conversion
