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Blah99
Acolyte
13 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 13:06:30
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Hey, I'm not clear on how drows can levitate because in R.A Salvatore's novels they inherit the magic but in thr War of the Spider Queen series it's their house insignia. I was wondering which one is it?
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 13:45:47
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That depends much on the Edition, you see.
Under 2nd Ed. (and IIRC also under 1st) the drow possessed a number of inherit magical abilities. One was to levitate (another being the globe of darkness or fearie fire IIRC). As most books by Salvatore were written during the time of 2nd Ed. his darkelves possess this ability.
Now, under the new rules of 3rd Ed. they stripped the drows of some of those abilities. The sourcebook Underdark discribes a feat that gives drow the ability to levitate again (it's called 'Noble born' or 'Noble blood' or something like that, I think). However, those without this feat must rely on magical items to accomplish such a task as you have noticed in the War of the Spider Queen novels.
BTW, Salvatore is known to write along his somewhat own agenda, not caring much for game rules and stats and such. You can see this in his newer novels, where he still applies 2nd. Ed. rules rather than the new 3. Ed once. Another very obvious mistake is that in his books the drow still possess 'infravision' as in 2nd Ed. whereas in 3rd Ed. it should be 'darkvision'.
Don't have my sourcebooks at hands, so I lack the details here. Hope that clears the matter a bit anyhow.
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 21 Sep 2007 13:51:12 |
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malchor7
Seeker
62 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 16:27:24
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I believe Salvatore doesn't write based on the rules. He first played 1e, and the general way that system works is good enough for him.
"Why does the balor have this-or-that power? How about Drizzt being able to do such-and-such."
Because 1e balors did. Because 1e rangers could.
"Why can drow levitate naturally? Why does drow equipment disintegrate in daylight?"
Because that's the original way.
He doesn't go in for rule changes all that much, I don't think. |
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Phelp Der Zemit
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 20:24:41
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| you also have got to think that the first dark elf book's by Bob were written not only edtions ahead of the WotSQ series, but years, things change. But also in Homeland it spoke of the house insignia merely enhanceing these Su: abiliaties, so they can be used any number aday instead of the usual one. And if you notice Drizzt can't levitate anymore, having disgared his insignia when he realized that his mother was tracking him with it. |
"We are all creatures of ambition, even if that ambition is to free ourselves of responsibility. The desire to escape ambition is, in and of itself, ambitition, and thus ambition is an inescapable truth of ratational excistance."
-Drizzt Do'Urden-
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2007 : 10:40:56
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I have to speak up for RAS here, correcting my earlier post. I am just reading 'Road of the patriarch' and to my astonishment I stumbled over this text passages last evening :
(p. 244 f.) "...the second wizard rushed up beside the first, touched his insignia, levitated up into the magical chimney and... More warriors float through the breach... Jarlaxle tipped his great hat to enable its magical powers and ... came likewise through, ...."
There is not a word of 'inherit abilities to levitate' to be found anywhere in this text passages. This clearly shows us - RAS does use the rules and the newer rules at that it seems!
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 23 Sep 2007 10:43:40 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 10:06:27
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Alright - now I have my books at hand and will take this opportunety to provide a little more substential info on drow abilities.
In the 2nd. Ed. Drow had all the following magical abilities (as given in 'Drow of the Underdark' sourcebook, p. 6 ff):
The 'typical Drow' could use dancing lights, fearie fire and darkness 1/day.
Drow above 4th level gained 'mature powers' of levitiate, know alignment and detect magic.
Drow priests and priestesses also gained additional spell-like powers (in addition to their spells) through divine favor. These included clairvoyance, detect lie, suggestion, and dispel magic.
Drow of noble blood or name typically gained the ability to use all of their base and mature powers more than once a day. An additional daily use was granted at the end of each decade of life; senior noble drow therefore had practically unlimited use of their powers.
In 3rd Ed. this changed (for stats see 'Underdark' sourcebook, p. 11):
All drow with Int 13 or higher can use dancing lights, fearie fire and darkness 1/day.
To use the 'mature powers' the charcter has to have the feat 'Highborn drow' (p. 25), which grants the spell-like abilities levitiate, detect good and detect magic 1/day.
As can be seen, all drow could still possess the power to levitate if they are of noble blood and have 'taken' the feat. But still, they can only use the abilities only once per day. Therefore it makes much more sence in 3rd Ed. rules to rely first and foremost on magic items to levitate. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 24 Sep 2007 10:08:44 |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 14:17:28
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| Bob uses the new rules when the new rules exist. He didn't make up a reason or dance around the reason why they weren't, he just kept writing with what he had until a new mechanic replaced the old. ;) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
Edited by - SirUrza on 24 Sep 2007 14:18:16 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2007 : 15:54:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Also, Drow items do not become useless when on the surface. Liriel Baenre used the Windwalker and enabled anything Drow (magic and items) to work without fear of their spells goin amuck or their items disintergratin.
Unless, like me, you use the drow item property that is in the Underdark sourcebook. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 00:05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Also, Drow items do not become useless when on the surface. Liriel Baenre used the Windwalker and enabled anything Drow (magic and items) to work without fear of their spells goin amuck or their items disintergratin.
Unless, like me, you use the drow item property that is in the Underdark sourcebook. :)
As has been said before, Liriel's Windwalker theory is just that, her in-novel theory why drow can use their equipment on the surface.
There is no reason to believe that drow weren't able to use "normal" magical items as well, i.e. a +1 longsword just like a surfacer. Keep reminding yourself that in AD&D as well as 3E only items tempered with faerzress or created with special rules ("drowcraft") will disintigrate if they are subjected to direct sunlight.
Do also note that the save for these items - given the caster level to create them - is pretty easy to succeed.
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Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 25 Sep 2007 00:06:51 |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 13:01:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Also, Drow items do not become useless when on the surface. Liriel Baenre used the Windwalker and enabled anything Drow (magic and items) to work without fear of their spells goin amuck or their items disintergratin.
Unless, like me, you use the drow item property that is in the Underdark sourcebook. :)
As has been said before, Liriel's Windwalker theory is just that, her in-novel theory why drow can use their equipment on the surface.
There is no reason to believe that drow weren't able to use "normal" magical items as well, i.e. a +1 longsword just like a surfacer. Keep reminding yourself that in AD&D as well as 3E only items tempered with faerzress or created with special rules ("drowcraft") will disintigrate if they are subjected to direct sunlight.
Do also note that the save for these items - given the caster level to create them - is pretty easy to succeed.
How can it be a 'theory' when she succeeded in doin just that?? Drow items no longer disintergrate on the surface, therefore, it is considered Canon. When she found the Windwalker, she decided to enable her magic to work on the surface as well as within the Underdark, without any dire consequences. However, she did not realize that when she took a piece of the Faezress, that ALL Drow magic and items would retain their luster and magic as they do in the Underdark. She also cured Fyodor's rages. This happened in Tangled Webs. You might want to review the books, you'll find that I am correct. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 14:55:46
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could someone discribe what exactly happened in those novels that might have had/did have an impact on how magic items of drow react when exposted to sunlight? And what exactly is Liriel's theory? I have not read those books, so I have no idea?!?
(anyone answering might want to consider spoiler warnings.......) |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 16:49:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
How can it be a 'theory' when she succeeded in doin just that?? Drow items no longer disintergrate on the surface, therefore, it is considered Canon. When she found the Windwalker, she decided to enable her magic to work on the surface as well as within the Underdark, without any dire consequences. However, she did not realize that when she took a piece of the Faezress, that ALL Drow magic and items would retain their luster and magic as they do in the Underdark. She also cured Fyodor's rages. This happened in Tangled Webs. You might want to review the books, you'll find that I am correct.
It's a theory because there's never been a exact comment saying that those events are what caused drow magic to do that and as you can see, the FR Underdark sourcebook does have a canon property that decays drow items on the surface and the Underdark came out after Elaine's novels.
And furthermore the event that Liriel did only affected her drow items, not ALL drow items. So, no we don't need to reread the book because it's clearly written in the book. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 18:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
How can it be a 'theory' when she succeeded in doin just that?? Drow items no longer disintergrate on the surface, therefore, it is considered Canon. When she found the Windwalker, she decided to enable her magic to work on the surface as well as within the Underdark, without any dire consequences. However, she did not realize that when she took a piece of the Faezress, that ALL Drow magic and items would retain their luster and magic as they do in the Underdark. She also cured Fyodor's rages. This happened in Tangled Webs. You might want to review the books, you'll find that I am correct.
It's a theory because there's never been a exact comment saying that those events are what caused drow magic to do that and as you can see, the FR Underdark sourcebook does have a canon property that decays drow items on the surface and the Underdark came out after Elaine's novels.
And furthermore the event that Liriel did only affected her drow items, not ALL drow items. So, no we don't need to reread the book because it's clearly written in the book.
Shakti Hunzrin's items stayed intact on the surface, that merc band from Skullport, their items stayed intact, the Drow that traveled to the surface in the WotSQ and Lady Penitent series items stayed intact. Its safe to say that Liriel was successful in what she did. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 20:59:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
How can it be a 'theory' when she succeeded in doin just that?? Drow items no longer disintergrate on the surface, therefore, it is considered Canon. When she found the Windwalker, she decided to enable her magic to work on the surface as well as within the Underdark, without any dire consequences. However, she did not realize that when she took a piece of the Faezress, that ALL Drow magic and items would retain their luster and magic as they do in the Underdark. She also cured Fyodor's rages. This happened in Tangled Webs. You might want to review the books, you'll find that I am correct.
It's a theory because there's never been a exact comment saying that those events are what caused drow magic to do that and as you can see, the FR Underdark sourcebook does have a canon property that decays drow items on the surface and the Underdark came out after Elaine's novels.
And furthermore the event that Liriel did only affected her drow items, not ALL drow items. So, no we don't need to reread the book because it's clearly written in the book.
Shakti Hunzrin's items stayed intact on the surface, that merc band from Skullport, their items stayed intact, the Drow that traveled to the surface in the WotSQ and Lady Penitent series items stayed intact. Its safe to say that Liriel was successful in what she did.
Or, they just didn't have the dark elven property. So it's not safe to say that. :) One does not equal the other. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 10:55:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
How can it be a 'theory' when she succeeded in doin just that?? Drow items no longer disintergrate on the surface, therefore, it is considered Canon. When she found the Windwalker, she decided to enable her magic to work on the surface as well as within the Underdark, without any dire consequences. However, she did not realize that when she took a piece of the Faezress, that ALL Drow magic and items would retain their luster and magic as they do in the Underdark. She also cured Fyodor's rages. This happened in Tangled Webs. You might want to review the books, you'll find that I am correct.
It's a theory because there's never been a exact comment saying that those events are what caused drow magic to do that and as you can see, the FR Underdark sourcebook does have a canon property that decays drow items on the surface and the Underdark came out after Elaine's novels.
And furthermore the event that Liriel did only affected her drow items, not ALL drow items. So, no we don't need to reread the book because it's clearly written in the book.
Shakti Hunzrin's items stayed intact on the surface, that merc band from Skullport, their items stayed intact, the Drow that traveled to the surface in the WotSQ and Lady Penitent series items stayed intact. Its safe to say that Liriel was successful in what she did.
Or, they just didn't have the dark elven property. So it's not safe to say that. :) One does not equal the other.
Shakti Hunzrin has all Drow equipment and a skeletal snake whip blessed by Lloth herself. As for the other Drow, lets take Pharaun and Ryld as an example, their items stayed intact on the surface and they had equipment that was of Drow make. However one wants to say it, one can't deny that logic that was written by those authors. So, I say again, Liriel was successful in what she did. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 13:31:52
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The discussion is very interesting, I admit! However, this makes me all the more curious as to what happened in those novels. therefore could someone please be so kind and enlighten me:
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
could someone discribe what exactly happened in those novels that might have had/did have an impact on how magic items of drow react when exposted to sunlight? And what exactly is Liriel's theory? I have not read those books, so I have no idea?!?
(anyone answering might want to consider spoiler warnings.......)
Thanks in advance!  |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 13:45:46
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In the following books, Elfshadow and the Windwalker Legacy (just giving it a name), Drow items lost their luster and soon lost all the magic that was woven into them.
In Elfshadow, when Arylin obtained a piwafwi from that Fence, he told her that it would lose its properties when in contact with the sun.
In Daughter of the Drow, Liriel used the Windwalker to bring and effectively use her Drow magic on the surface. Though, when Nisstyre took the Windwalker from her, she lost access to her magic and spells. She tied her 'spellbook' to the Windwalker.
In Tangled Webs, she learned Rune Crafting and developed a Rune with the aid of Fyodor and carved it into the Tree of Life (can't think of the actual name, but it starts with a Y), and enabled all Drow magic and items to work on the surface.
In Windwalker, Drow magic and items retained their potency and the evidence that supports my claims are obviously written in the novels. Shakti Hunzrin had items blessed by Lloth with her and they did not lose their potency on the surface.
Also, in WotSQ, all the items that were taken from the Underdark to the surface retained their potency. The same thing in The Lady Penitent trilogy. Q'arlynd still has his Drow equipment and they remain intact in potency and luster.
The evidence is all there and it backs up this post and my previous posts. It is no 'theory' when it is a fact. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Rizogue
Acolyte
4 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 16:26:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Shakti Hunzrin has all Drow equipment and a skeletal snake whip blessed by Lloth herself. As for the other Drow, lets take Pharaun and Ryld as an example, their items stayed intact on the surface and they had equipment that was of Drow make. However one wants to say it, one can't deny that logic that was written by those authors. So, I say again, Liriel was successful in what she did.
That's all well and good but it still doesn't make it true. So, I'll repeat myself for the third time. Those items probably just weren't infused with the dark elven weapon property. And since I use newer sources over older sources, Underdark came out AFTER Elaine's novel. Item's blessed by Lloth are not the same as items that are drow crafted, so that's a nonissue for this discussion. Items that are made by drow are not the same as dark elven property items, so that's also a nonissue for this discussion.
I have read all three novels and the events didn't affect all dark elven items, especially since a sourcebook shows us that some dark elven items do decay if they have the dark elven property.
Do note: The only items that decay are items that are enchanted with faerzress. If they are not enchanted with faerzress, then it doesn't matter since those items act just like normal items. So, that would include items enchanted by deities or normal dark elven made items that are not enchanted by faerzress.
So, you can continue your argument but I'm not convinced that you are showing me enough proven examples to convince me of your theory.
Edit: Now, looking through my author replies, Elaine did say she wrote a partial explanation for the 3e rule changes, however, that was still before the Underdark sourcebook came out. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Sep 2007 16:45:09 |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 16:57:35
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quote:
Do note: The only items that decay are items that are enchanted with faerzress.
Every item that is made in the Underdark is 'tainted' by the Faezress. There is no escaping that point. As for my previous posts, you still miss the point that is being brought across. Every Drow item is enchanted by Drow magic and Drow magic is tied to the Faezress, therefore, they used to become useless when brought to the surface. Since Liriel's successful transition of bringing Drow magic to the surface without the consequences that used to come when usin Drow magic.
If you still can't see that this is not a theory, then, thats on you. The evidence is there and it supports my posts. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
Edited by - Drakul on 26 Sep 2007 17:19:14 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 17:32:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
quote:
Do note: The only items that decay are items that are enchanted with faerzress.
Every item that is made in the Underdark is 'tainted' by the Faezress. There is no escaping that point. As for my previous posts, you still miss the point that is being brought across. Every Drow item is enchanted by Drow magic and Drow magic is tied to the Faezress, therefore, they used to become useless when brought to the surface. Since Liriel's successful transition of bringing Drow magic to the surface without the consequences that used to come when usin Drow magic.
If you still can't see that this is not a theory, then, thats on you. The evidence is there and it supports my posts.
Sorry but no, not every item made by dark elves are enchanted with faerzress, otherwise there's no point for a separate property in the Underdark sourcebook. So, no, I don't believe your theory because you aren't supplying me the evidence to believe it while I have enough evidence to say otherwise.
And your not reading my point because as I said, a sourcebook that came out six months after Elaine's last novel changed her novel, that's the problem with a shared world. Yes, you can use her novel as evidence but there is later material that changes what she wrote.
"Drowcraft items were once common but they have falllen out of favor in some drow cities. A drowcraft weapon is energized by local earth nodes and the surrounding area of faerzress. As long as it remains within an earth node or a zone of faerzress, it grants its wielder a +2 luck bonus on attack and damage rolls, in addition to its normal enhancement bonus. Outside a faerzress zone (for example, above ground), the weapon does not grant the luck bonuses, but it otherwise works normally.
A drowcraft weapon exposed to sunlight must make a DC 8 Fort save or dissolve utterly. A new save at the same DC is required for each day of exposure. Sheathed weapons or weapons exposed to indirect light (such as indoors) are still vulnerable to this effect, but a drowcraft weapon can be kept safe indefinitely inside a lead-lined case. A drowcraft weapon treated with darkoil is immune to the effects of sunlight."
Thus, as it's clearly stated in Underdark, which came out in Oct 2003, not ALL dark elven weapons/items are drow crafted. Elaine's novel came out in April 2003. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Sep 2007 17:51:28 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 17:55:05
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In 2E every item that came from the Underdark, that was crafted and enchanted in the Underdark became useless on the surface. However, yes, the Underdark book states that Drowcraft items become useless on the surface, provided that you roll a save for it. Again, however, that does not change the fact that what I mentioned in my previous posts did happen. The system holds inconsistencies, that much is obvious, but it does not refute the facts.
Wooly, I am not arguing. I am trying to make a point, which people know that these events happened in the books, but deny it anyways. Canon is Canon, regardless of the form its in.
To Kuje:
quote:
Thus, as it's clearly stated in Underdark, which came out in Oct 2003, not ALL dark elven weapons/items are drow crafted. Elaine's novel came out in April 2003.
You discredited yourself by posting a LARGE gap between sources. Piwafwis have been used on the surface and did not become useless, and they are... Drowcrafted. My facts still hold more accuracy. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
Edited by - Drakul on 26 Sep 2007 18:04:52 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 18:06:07
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Yes, but I'm not debating 2e rules/lore.
And yes, Elaine's novels, as I said, more then once, did say that but, as I said, more then once, a material that came out after her novels changed canon. So, until Underdark came out, the lore in her novels was correct, now it is no longer correct.
For some reason you aren't excepting this when it's a fact.
You aren't showing me where the dark elven capes are drow crafted. Please show me a 3/3.5e source saying that they are. Until you can show me actual material, I don't believe you. You keep saying these events are true but you aren't showing me the evidence.
And you are discrediting yourself actually because you are using a source that is out of date, namely Elaine's novel. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Sep 2007 18:18:04 |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 18:13:58
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I already acknowledged some of what you have said, which you obviously missed. As far as Cunningham's sudden change, well, she is an excellent author, but she only has 3 books that have to do about the Drow. Salvatore has more and even he had Drowcrafted items remain intact and retains their potency. Look at the battle at Mithril Hall and Settlestone. Every Drow weapon that was used, did not become useless on the surface. The system is broken when it comes to this subject, however, my facts are still facts and not even close to being theories.
Its also funny that you think I have discredited myself, when I gave the perfect example of Piwafwis becoming useless on the surface. In Elfshadow, Arylin used a Piwafwi that she obtained from a Fence and it lost its potency and became useless. Therefore, it is Drowcrafted. Also, nothing much has changed when it comes to Piwafwis. They were Drowcrafted in 2E and since there has been no change to that fact, its remains the same in 3/3.5E. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
Edited by - Drakul on 26 Sep 2007 18:20:00 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 18:21:15
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Mithril hall and Settlestone and Arylin's cloak were not written about in 3/3.5e rules/lore. They were written about in 1e or 2e rules/lore, which has been changed.
And just because those three items are drow crafted doesn't mean that ALL dark elven items are drow crafted, which is clearly written in the 3/3.5e Underdark sourcebook.
Now you are just mix and matching your lore and rules to try to "prove" your point.
Sigh.
I'm still waiting for current material that says the dark elven cloaks are ALL drow crafted as well as current rules that says ALL dark elven weapons and armor are drow crafted. I can't find any such material, so if you have it, do supply it. However, there are a few examples of drow crafted items in Underdark but that isn't proof that ALL drow enchanted items have the drowcraft property, unless you want them to.
Furthermore,
Races of Faerun, page 173, "Greater Piwafwi: These dark-colored cloaks have all the abilities of a cloak of elvenkind and also provide the benefit of endure elements (fire), negating 5 points of fire damage per round. (Lesser piwafwi are simply cloaks of elvenkind).
Caster level: 5th. Prereq's: Craft wondrous item, endure elements, invisibility, creator must be dark elven. Market price: 6,100GP. Weight 1 lb."
Of course Races was printed in March 2003, so the drow craft property didn't exist yet, because it came out in Oct 2003, but there is nothing saying that, and WOTC hasn't updated them, as far as I know, that says the cloaks have the drowcraft property.
However, Underdark only says that the drow craft property works on armor and weapons, not other magical items like cloaks, rings, spellbooks, etc.
Now, I really have to boogie cause I'll be late for class. I'll continue this later! |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 26 Sep 2007 18:48:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 21:38:00
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I don't care who is right and who is wrong. Either this debate ends now, or I lock the thread. If you feel obligated to keep it up, take it to PM.  |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Blah99
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 09:40:28
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Thanks for the answers guys but I have another few more questions. Drizzt asks himself in Homeland if all drow children are born innocent but are turned evil by the society of the drow. Is this true? We know Drizzt wasn't unique because Liriel Baenre wasn't completely evil (or was she? I haven't read any of her novels so if someone could fill me in that would be great). Are drow good because of their 'blood' because Drizzt's father Zaknefein was good as was his sister Vierna before she was corrupted by Lloth's teachings? How did Liriel retain her 'goodness', I remember reading a short story about her where it said that she was sheltered from the evils of the drow society by her mother so does that mean her mother was good as well??? This is all quite confusing for me and I hope some of you can fill my in so I can continue to discuss this matter with you which I find very interesting.
Thanks guys. |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 10:13:27
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Are all Drow born innocent?? Well, every child that is born is innocent. They are a sponge and soak up anything and everything they see. They are innocent until they are old enough to either grasp what they are learning or rise above it to become a better person. Liriel was similar to Drizzt, though she was much different from him. She flaunted power and reveled in it, Drizzt just wanted to be himself, regardless of his race. Liriel is an opportunist, just like Jarlaxle, however, she let her emotions get the best of her, emotions that most Drow disregard. She loved.
I would say more, but I would be spoiling too much. I hope this helps. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 14:53:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Are all Drow born innocent?? Well, every child that is born is innocent. They are a sponge and soak up anything and everything they see. They are innocent until they are old enough to either grasp what they are learning or rise above it to become a better person.
I second that. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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The Drow *possible spoilers*
