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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 03:08:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Erik, am I right in thinking that 'Light Explained to the rest of the how she and Taslin could tell what general time it is?
Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. I imagine Asson is familiar with how Taslin tells time (knowing about her abilities). But Twilight . . . she likely didn't go any farther than saying that she had a way of knowing when it was midnight (I believe). 'Twould be entirely out of character for her to reveal a secret like that.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 00:13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I'm glad I've successfully conveyed that impression! All those are dead-on. Disdain to cover up her jealousy -- insecurity in her ability to do so herself.
A messy, less-than-comfortable past.
That's one of the reasons I find her so interesting a protagonist. But I also think her co-stars are all equally intriguing.
quote:
Oh, it's all because of *Him.*
The question, really, is who *Him* is.
Cheers
That'd be a great name for a short story about that subject..."Him". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 02:07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de BieOh, it's all because of *Him.*
The question, really, is who *Him* is.
That'd be a great name for a short story about that subject..."Him".
Ooh! Thoughtsies in the Erik head! 
[Ahem. No more Slip talk for me tonight.]
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 19:49:19
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So I started DoM last night and got the first 3 chapters read up on this. So far it already has me rolling my eyes on some of the things Fox is doing. Good job on that!  I really liked how at the beginning no one has any idea what is going on and they don't even bother to ask one another. I have always been thinking of running a game like that where they wake up in a dungeon and go for there. So this will certainly be a memorable book for me. Will enjoy it like it's a cup of Maxwell house coffee.  |
Turox Antas Dragonslayer -
"People will believe anything they want to believe, or fear to believe."
Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2007 : 20:32:07
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quote:
Originally posted by turox
So I started DoM last night and got the first 3 chapters read up on this. So far it already has me rolling my eyes on some of the things Fox is doing. Good job on that!
Well, I'm glad you're rolling your eyes in a *good* way.
quote:
I really liked how at the beginning no one has any idea what is going on and they don't even bother to ask one another. I have always been thinking of running a game like that where they wake up in a dungeon and go for there.
Yeah -- they're seasoned adventurers. This is old-hat for them.
However, as time progresses and they *don't* immediately escape, questions will begin. In a sense, not thinkinga bout it is a defense mechanism against the dire situation as it really stands.
quote:
So this will certainly be a memorable book for me. Will enjoy it like it's a cup of Maxwell house coffee.
If you like,
"The best part of wakin' up . . . is gettin' kneed in the junk."
Heh. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Braveheart
Learned Scribe
Austria
159 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2007 : 14:25:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by shuman
I wonder what Disposessed means?
He's lost his 'Mech? 
(Okay, so a lot of you won't get that... Sorry!  )
Lol, Wooly, that's what I thought at first. Good one (sorry I'm late on that one, but I spent two weeks in Pennsylvania without Internet). |
Jarlaxle: "Do keep ever present in your thoughts, my friend, that an illusion can kill you if you believe in it."
Entreri: "And the real thing can kill you whether you believe in it or not." |
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initiate
Learned Scribe
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 22:44:49
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At last I have begun my delve into the very depths of madness. And what a delve it is. I've got a fair bit to add, (though I'm sure other scribes have already covered most of it thoroughly; I've been avoiding the book club for fear of spoilers), so, first. . .
characters:
Arandon etc: poor people, I kind of liked them, too. I'm not the kind of reader who requires that everything about a scenario be spelled out before hand, but I still maintain that reading "That Time of the Tenday" first does the opening of Depths a service. It just provides the beginning with the little bit of extra scope that I felt necessary to make it complete.
Tlork: Tlork funny. Tlork also in right spot. If had started with Tlork, without Prologue scene, Tlork might have upset tone of book, but as is Tlork break tension. ... Tlork funny. Also hard to right Tlork brain in present tense all time; my complements.
Twilight: Eternally inscrutable. Excellent. Fairly frequent, teasing references are made to the various mysteries surrounding her: why the star on her back?, why is her sword named Betrayal?, her relationship with Erevan Ilisere, the precise identity of the "he". I find these mysteries fascinating; I just hope they are also fascinating to those who just pick up the book without having read Erik's replies or comments on line, and thus have no guide at all to go on.
Liet: I really like Liet, and I think he's well done. Odd how Twilight couldn't hear him breathing. Odd about that grey flesh on his arm. Odd how he got the key right the first time. The little hints that there's something not entirely normal about Liet are slipped in really nicely. Also, I enjoy the way he talks. This adjective may sound pretty stupid, but he sounds "Realmsian" to me. I've compared Erik Scott de Bie's writing to that of Ed Greenwood before, and now I'm going to do it again: Liet's speech is almost "Edesque". The other characters, of course, have their own unique voices and sound nothing like Liet, which makes his way of speaking all the more noticeable.
Slip: I like that there's a character like Slip around. She brightens the mood, but she's got just enough of her own problems to keep her interesting on a level with the rest of the characters.
Gargan: I greatly enjoyed the description given of Gargan, and an excellent job has been done thus far at hinting of more depth to the character. I'm hoping he gets his time in the spotlight soon, as he has a tendency to slip into the background relative to the other, far more vocal characters. Erik, was Gargan at all difficult to write due to his language barrier and tendency to hang back? [Also, as others have said, good to see goliaths popping up in the Realms. I'm not a huge fan of all the new races that have been introduced recently, but the goliaths really caught my eye.]
Taslin: Another interesting character, more so for those who have read the webstory due to the connections implied therein between her and Twilight. I've noticed a tendency in Taslin to wear her heart fairly openly. Also, though she seems a genuinely kind and caring person I notice that she angers easily, though that could just be all the stress of having to look after Assin while constantly being bothered by Davoren Hellsheart.
Assin: Nice old bloke. More "screen-time" wouldn't go amiss, but I still like him. Hopefully later chapters will reveal at least some hints of Taslin and Assin's story prior to being tossed into the Depths. Their's could be an interesting tale.
Davoren "Hellsheart": I hope the intention was not for the reader to like or sympathize with Davoren, 'cuz I don't. He's still interesting, though. When you first look at this character, you get the impression that he's a fairly stereotypical evil, self-absorbed fellow. He's got a lot of lines of dialogue which sound almost contrived, tailored to shout "Ooooh, I'm sooo evil!" Yet, the farther I read the more convinced I become that this is so by design, both on Erik's part and Davoren's. Davoren is genuinely evil and self-absorbed, and he wants the world to know about it. As someone said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if he made the name "Hellsheart" up himself. He really works hard to generate this evil persona distasteful to all, and trying to figure out why is one of the most interesting things about him. In short, though the fires with which I despise him burn with the heat of a million suns, I'm interested in the character and think his bullying, attention hungry nature is really well put together.
Plot Points:
The escape did initially strike me as a little bit easy, so I was intrigued and vindicated when Twilight mentioned such. The possibility that the group is being tested is an interesting one. Though I've never seen the movie, it strikes me as a very Saw-like scenario.
There seem to be a number of forces at play within the Depths. We've got the wights, (as well as what made them happen), the grimlocks, this Gestal who watches people while they sleep, ... Lots goin' on.
Observations:
During these earlier parts of the book I really got a sense of a D&D module being played through. This is an interesting form to take for a novel, and I'm really enjoying the opportunity it presents to throw disparate individuals together and see how they play off each other. If all or even close to all Realms novels were as narrowly focused on dungeon-crawling as this I'm certain I would, haha, go mad, but the beauty of Depths is that it is not just about the dungeon crawl -- it is about the people doing the crawling. I've actually read past these first seven chapters and, though I'll admit I was a bit worried for a while, the story catapults further into the realm of awesome once the character interactions get rolling.
I really like how game abilities are integrated seamlessly. I personally could have done with a little bit more explanation of how, for instance, Twilight dances the shadows and Slip casts sacred spells without prayer, just to make the process seem less
mechanical. Yet there's a fine line to be walked between the extremes of, on the one hand, twisting "flavour text" this way and that, trying to make the game mechanics flow in the novel, and at
the other end of the spectrum just slapping them down and saying "them's the rules", and I think Depths walks this line well.
Truly, I feel pity for those who haven't read the webstory. I wouldn't know, as I haven't read the novel without it, and I couldn't experience the book for the first time twice in any case, but I believe that it has helped me get my bearings within the story. Yet elucidation is not the key to this madness; I'm sure those who didn't read "That Time of the Tenday" are having almost as much fun as I am, which is, of course,
how the story was designed.
I enjoy the crisp, descriptive prose in which these chapters are written. I first noticed the writing style in the prologue, and I find that its persisted throughout the book. To be honest, I almost prefer the dreamy, surreal, "creepy" style used in "That Time of the Tenday", but this precise tone certainly fits the life or death situation. Also, having read further, [in fact, I'm finished the book, and shall comment in the appropriate threads], I can say that surrealism does have its day, and oh, but it is glorious. My only mild problem with the style used in these first chapters is an occasional lack of clarity of setting. I wasn't always sure exactly what I was supposed to be "seeing". Perhaps this is intentional to a certain extent. . . dungeons shrouded in mystery and all that. Anyway, I can't think of any particular examples, so it obviously didn't bother me that much.
I return now to the Depths. Its easter 'round these parts, and I find that I need to read something gloomy and gritty and slithering and generally in the spirit of the occasion. I must escape the bunny-chocolate motif -- 'tis enough to drive a fellow ... quite mad!
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Edited by - initiate on 09 Apr 2007 23:06:14 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2007 : 23:25:50
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Wow -- I'm glad you're enjoying the book (or, rather, *have* enjoyed the book).
With such eloquence and deep thought, you wouldn't be interested in writing/posting a review, would you? (heh -- Guess I'm a sucker for reviews of the novel. I'm interested in making sure that people who will enjoy it, read it.)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2007 : 03:05:21
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Hello-
I just finished through C7 and am enjoying the book a great deal. :)
I must agree w/ the comments thus-far, on basically all counts!
One additional comment that comes to mind:
The final couple of lines about the escaping troll made me laugh. I was actually at work when I read that - and felt compelled to describe it to a couple of co-workers because I thought it was so funny. :)
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2007 : 03:11:18
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| Yes, the troll scene had a great deal of humor. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 14:04:05
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quote:
I really like the pairing of Taslin and Asson, diversity can be a great thing in relationships. Even thoug you get the question in your head, "What is a smokin hot gold-elf doing with that old decrepit Spell hurler?" (Can you say Erik and Shelly?? wink wink)
Maybe he has some nice spells in his book :-) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 16:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Lameth
quote:
I really like the pairing of Taslin and Asson, diversity can be a great thing in relationships. Even thoug you get the question in your head, "What is a smokin hot gold-elf doing with that old decrepit Spell hurler?" (Can you say Erik and Shelly?? wink wink)
Maybe he has some nice spells in his book :-)
It's not the size of your wand, it's the way you cast your spells.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2007 : 23:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lameth
quote:
I really like the pairing of Taslin and Asson, diversity can be a great thing in relationships. Even thoug you get the question in your head, "What is a smokin hot gold-elf doing with that old decrepit Spell hurler?" (Can you say Erik and Shelly?? wink wink)
Maybe he has some nice spells in his book :-)
It's not the size of your wand, it's the way you cast your spells.
Or -- as in the case of certain old mages who live in non-ostentatious towers in certain old dalelands -- it's both.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 00:57:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's not the size of your wand, it's the way you cast your spells.
Or -- as in the case of certain old mages who live in non-ostentatious towers in certain old dalelands -- it's both.
Cheers
I'll take your word for it. When it comes to mages whose robes I want to look up, Elminster isn't on the list. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lameth
Learned Scribe
Germany
196 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2007 : 20:07:28
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Great work. I love this book from the the first 10 pages.
The characters are great and I think some of them will be dead at the end of the "trip". or maybe mad *g* |
Edited by - Lameth on 15 Apr 2007 20:08:15 |
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whyfight
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2007 : 06:07:05
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| i guess ive waited to long to read the book and reply to this thread as everything i had to say has been said, But anyway i would just like to say nice job so far, im through to about chapter 9 and i must say i am liking it a lot. All the charcters are so different and all have so many questions there actions bring about. Its like im confused but its a non frustrating controled confused lol. You also have outdone yourself on your battle writing style, is still one of if not my favorit. Im very much looking foward to the finishing of your book, my only complaint is that you dont have your own seriese yet =) |
An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2007 : 16:47:02
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quote:
Originally posted by whyfight
i guess ive waited to long to read the book and reply to this thread as everything i had to say has been said, But anyway i would just like to say nice job so far, im through to about chapter 9 and i must say i am liking it a lot.
Awesome! Any additional comments you think of would be more than welcome. I hope you're finding these threads useful.
quote:
All the charcters are so different and all have so many questions there actions bring about. Its like im confused but its a non frustrating controled confused lol.You also have outdone yourself on your battle writing style, is still one of if not my favorit.
Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad you like it!
quote:
Im very much looking foward to the finishing of your book, my only complaint is that you dont have your own seriese yet =)
Heh. I appreciate the vote of confidence!
I hope you enjoy the rest of the book!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Elven Avenger
Acolyte
Brazil
27 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 15:06:42
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This book shows me a very very strange relationship that I thought I would never see someday, a Sun Elf Cleric of Corellon Larethian married with an Human Wizard. Not impossible to happens of course, just strange to the lore I am used to read about elves, anyway it was cool to see in a novel.
About Davoren, just one thing: I wanna play Warlock!
Very nice book as far as I've read (reaching chapter 14 now) , and I am afraid of Twilight just as Liet is lol.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2007 : 15:24:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Elven Avenger
This book shows me a very very strange relationship that I thought I would never see someday, a Sun Elf Cleric of Corellon Larethian married with an Human Wizard. Not impossible to happens of course, just strange to the lore I am used to read about elves, anyway it was cool to see in a novel.
Heh. Sun elves do have something of a reputation, eh? I think that's largely a stereotype, though: elves are tall and haughty, sun elves especially, much like dwarves are short and grubby.
quote:
About Davoren, just one thing: I wanna play Warlock!
Complete Arcane, my friend. And there is a writeup of Davoren on the Wizards' site--could be considered a spoiler of sorts, so you might not want to read it until after you're done with the novel: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070314
quote:
Very nice book as far as I've read (reaching chapter 14 now) , and I am afraid of Twilight just as Liet is lol.
Thank you -- I'm glad you're enjoying it.
And I rather think you're justified in being afraid of Twilight.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Elven Avenger
Acolyte
Brazil
27 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2007 : 20:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Complete Arcane, my friend. And there is a writeup of Davoren on the Wizards' site--could be considered a spoiler of sorts, so you might not want to read it until after you're done with the novel: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070314
I intend to do that, but with Neverwinter Nights 2! :) |
Edited by - Elven Avenger on 01 May 2007 20:58:04 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2007 : 02:52:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Elven Avenger
I intend to do that, but with Neverwinter Nights 2! :)
Ah yes -- I've heard good things about the warlock in NWN2. A friend of mine really enjoys his.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
747 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2007 : 07:52:47
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| Just to say, I have received this tome only yesterday, along with the first two re-printed Sembia books and the YotRD trilogy. However, also included in that internet order was the LotR special extended boxed set, and I've only just started playing NWN2, so I can't promise I'll be able to attend to this within the next two weeks. If I do, you, Master de Bie, will be the first to know my thoughts on it, as you know how much I enjoyed Ghostwalker. Your book is on the top of the pile though, but may be read intermittandly with the Sembia anthology -- a single short story after all is quicker to take up and finish with limited time -- whenever I'm not actively playing NWN2 or being kept busy by RL. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2007 : 15:57:16
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Hey -- it's NWN2. I totally understand!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 00:23:12
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I really enjoyed the book! The Mad Sharn, the Goliaths, Davoren Hellsheart (warlocks rock!), and of course Twilight herself, the mystery lady...
Just one question about Fox-at-Twilight: is she Erevan's Chosen, as strongly implied, or just a thief devoted to the elven trickster deity? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 00:54:23
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Erik will likely have more...
As I see it, Twilight's status has yet to be "fully and officially" confirmed completely in canon -- in other words, it's not actually something stated in the novel or in sourcebooks. For now, it's just an interpretation the reader picks up from Twilight's published appearances so far.
In some of the Candlekeep Book Club [or was it in Erik's 'Questions' scroll] discussions regarding Twilight's status, Erik tell us that he established a pretty strong connection for the "special" relationship that exists between Twilight and Erevan through several passages in Depths of Madness. And that's mostly what I thought when I read through them myself.
That's enough for me to believe that Twilight does in fact enjoy a unique status of sorts among Erevan's faithful, and that Erik will elaborate further on that status if and when he has the opportunity to do so. And so long as it isn't contradicted by WotC in future FR source material, 'tis likely to remain that way. Whether she's an actual Chosen of Erevan, isn't completely known, yet.
And this from Erik -
"Yup. It has not been established one way or another, and until it is, I can't comment one way or another.
From many things Twilight has *said*, it's a reasonable assumption. But there isn't any particular reason to trust anything she says. There's also one particular scene in Depths that seems to contradict her "chosen" status.
Cheers"
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 00:57:32
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And, to be honest, I actually prefer the "vagueness" regarding Twilight's status as a Chosen. Maybe she is, and maybe she isn't. It adds a new level of mystery to her character... a level that I'd prefer not to receive a great deal of attention in the possible future books to come.
It reflects my overall attitude regarding how most of the non-Mystran Chosen should actually be handled in the fiction. These characters should really just occupy a special, yet not completely defined, place in the faith of their god, not necessarily a Chosen, nor a mere mortal worshipper either.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 13 Jun 2007 01:02:20 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 23:55:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, to be honest, I actually prefer the "vagueness" regarding Twilight's status as a Chosen. Maybe she is, and maybe she isn't. It adds a new level of mystery to her character... a level that I'd prefer not to receive a great deal of attention in the possible future books to come.
It reflects my overall attitude regarding how most of the non-Mystran Chosen should actually be handled in the fiction. These characters should really just occupy a special, yet not completely defined, place in the faith of their god, not necessarily a Chosen, nor a mere mortal worshipper either.
I agree on both counts. And I also give Erik credit for putting Twilight through the ringer. Same goes for Everis Cale--I don't mind that he's a "Chosen" of Mask because that doesn't seem to make Cale's life any easier--in fact, his life is harder because of it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 21:33:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ardashir
I really enjoyed the book! The Mad Sharn, the Goliaths, Davoren Hellsheart (warlocks rock!), and of course Twilight herself, the mystery lady...
Welcome, and I'm glad you enjoyed! It was a very fun book for me to write as well.
Did you have a particular favorite scene or character? Sounds like Davoren was a hit.
quote:
Just one question about Fox-at-Twilight: is she Erevan's Chosen, as strongly implied, or just a thief devoted to the elven trickster deity?
Ah, one of the big questions. And one which I will not and cannot answer. My apologies!
I would happily point out, however, that as a divine seeker, she derives certain divine powers from Erevan (whether she really accepts them or not), so it's clear she isn't just any old thief.
(Speaking strictly on a hypothetical basis, we do realize that her Chosen/non-Chosen status would absolutely be NDA territory, were I to publish more about Twilight, yes? . . . Not that I'll say whether or not she's going to reappear.)
quote:
As I see it, Twilight's status has yet to be "fully and officially" confirmed completely in canon -- in other words, it's not actually something stated in the novel or in sourcebooks. For now, it's just an interpretation the reader picks up from Twilight's published appearances so far.
Yup, yup--that's the dealy. I think Sage has definitely hit upon what I intended all along.
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In some of the Candlekeep Book Club [or was it in Erik's 'Questions' scroll] discussions regarding Twilight's status, Erik tell us that he established a pretty strong connection for the "special" relationship that exists between Twilight and Erevan through several passages in Depths of Madness. And that's mostly what I thought when I read through them myself.
It's certainly not your cut-and-dried, worshipper-god relationship. Twilight has made certain outrageous claims regarding their relationship, specifically its "intimate" nature (see "The Greater Treasure"). But then, there's that dream in Depths . . .
Who knows.
(Except me. And I'm not telling. )
quote:
That's enough for me to believe that Twilight does in fact enjoy a unique status of sorts among Erevan's faithful...
It should be noted that the remainder of Erevan's faithful is probably just as hard to fathom (if not harder) as Twilight herself is. So she may be a hero or mighty figure to some, and others may not know her at all, or she may want nothing to do with Erevan's faithful.
To answer Lyrna:
quote:
And I also give Erik credit for putting Twilight through the ringer. Same goes for Everis Cale--I don't mind that he's a "Chosen" of Mask because that doesn't seem to make Cale's life any easier--in fact, his life is harder because of it.
Nothing about Twilight's interaction with Erevan's church (or any of the various forces allied with him) has made her life easier. Perhaps a little more interesting, perhaps richer, but not easier. Definitely not.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2007 : 00:58:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
It should be noted that the remainder of Erevan's faithful is probably just as hard to fathom (if not harder) as Twilight herself is. So she may be a hero or mighty figure to some, and others may not know her at all, or she may want nothing to do with Erevan's faithful.
I think that has a lot to do with the overall nature of Erevan himself -- as a finicky and unpredictable deity. A great many elves and/or lay worshippers of other races may find successfully serving most of the Trickster's mortal interests, difficult to attend to. Erevan's faithful can probably never be too sure with just how, or even whether, they're actually serving Erevan's interests in the way he intended, or not. Therefore, it's difficult for outsiders to ascertain just who they are dealing with when they encounter a member of Erevan's church.
Add to this, the rather loosely structured church itself, comprised of significant numbers of rogues and pranksters [character types who personify "hard to fathom" aspects in the Realms]. Thus, we can indeed see why Twilight's overall status in the church of Erevan is just as perplexing to us, as it probably is to other members of the church, and also, to people who aren't part of the clergy.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 15 Jun 2007 01:07:32 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2007 : 18:36:14
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If I might lift a couple somethings from Sage's wonderful observations:
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Erevan's faithful can probably never be too sure with just how, or even whether, they're actually serving Erevan's interests in the way he intended, or not.
Heh. That hits on a particularly important aspect of serving a trickster deity--whether your actions, even if they're meant to disrupt the deity's desires, aren't in the end serving the deity.
Erevis Cale, in his relationship with Mask, is similar, in a sense--try as he might, he seems to be helping Mask as much as hindering him.
I think of the two characters as opposites in many ways, particularly in core motivation: Cale's priority seems to be controlling his own destiny, whereas Twilight is deathly afraid of taking responsibility for her own actions (hence constant fleeing).
quote:
Therefore, it's difficult for outsiders to ascertain just who they are dealing with when they encounter a member of Erevan's church.
Not to mention, of course, that many of them would regularly be in disguises, perhaps two or three layers deep, either subtle or opaque, the better to go about their tricksy deeds.
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Thus, we can indeed see why Twilight's overall status in the church of Erevan is just as perplexing to us, as it probably is to other members of the church, and also, to people who aren't part of the clergy.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Depths of Madness: Prologue & Chapters 1 - 7
