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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Mar 2007 : 22:29:59
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I'm about 45 pages or so in by now, and not only am I enjoying this book immensely, but I also find I have quite a few things to say about it.
First of all...I really wish (hope?) we can get some more background on the poor, unfortunate characters in the prologue. I just found I wanted to learn more about them, and more about how they work with (or against) each other. There are so many hints dropped there it'd be a crime not to explore them. Not that I'm against letting some things remain unknown--far from it. You seem to be the type of author who doesn't go out of his way to explain everything, and I do like that.
And of course, the new bunch of characters Twilight has ended up with piques my interest as well. I especially like the gold elven lady--she strikes me as strong and wise (and defiant) but with an amazingly tender side as well, and it's not often you see a beautiful old paired with an old human man. It's almost like a glimpse of some of the drawbacks of marrying a person who is bound to "get old on you" very, very fast. That, and I just like inter-racial relationships for some reason (I think because they tend to denote characters who have willingly stepped outside their comfort-zone, and I admire that). I like Davoren Hellsheart too, and I must say, his comments make me laugh. Actually, the name "Hellsheart" does too. But hey, that's not a bad thing. Overall the dialogue feels very fresh and lively, making the novel highly readable for me.
I also must agree with Beezer when he said this book has elements in it that are similar to the "Saw" movies--in fact I am very much reminded of the beginning of "Saw 2", where a band of totally different (and not necessarily heroic) strangers are forced to band together in a strange dungeon-like place just to survive. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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jespin
Acolyte
12 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 02:01:50
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| First off let me thankyou Erik, i find your style awsome! I'm already done it, realms novel go quicker then snow balls in hades around me. Your books have been great reads. as for the original party in the prologue, I like it when books feel like they start in the middle of the action, it make you feel like there is more going on in the realms than just what your reading. When the group catches up I do have a few questions but till then, Great Job! |
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TheGato
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 14:47:38
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She certainly does seem to want to keep that scar on her hand concealed, Erik. Could it be because she inflicted it on herself during that wild dream in Ten Day? Was it actually a dream though? hmmm... seems more like it was "someone" else actually doing it hmm...
Oh yea! I agree Rinonalyrna Fathomlin. Id love to read more about the group from the prologue as well. Especiall after reading That Time of the Tenday. They really seem like interesting companions and characters. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 15:17:32
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Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I'm about 45 pages or so in by now, and not only am I enjoying this book immensely, but I also find I have quite a few things to say about it.
Excellent! On both counts.
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First of all...I really wish (hope?) we can get some more background on the poor, unfortunate characters in the prologue. I just found I wanted to learn more about them, and more about how they work with (or against) each other. There are so many hints dropped there it'd be a crime not to explore them.
Well call me a criminal, then, as there isn’t a whole lot of explication about the original party in the novel itself. 
Their purpose in the first chapter was largely to set the tone, and because you expect them to win through – not get massacred. (That’s the tone, after all.)
And because I was occasionally accused of “playing too nice” with characters in Ghostwalker (i.e. “so-and-so just can’t die!”). Oh not so. 
That said, the party is featured in my webstory, however, if you go to that particular thread. It gets more information on the various peoples, and how they relate to one another. “That Time of the Tenday” takes place roughly 13-15 days before the first chapter of Depths.
Pages 56-57 are significant as well, and you’ll be wanting to get to chapter 11, which starts on page 117. I think, if you’re interested in the original party, you’ll get a kick out of that particular chapter.
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Not that I'm against letting some things remain unknown--far from it. You seem to be the type of author who doesn't go out of his way to explain everything, and I do like that.
I’m glad that style works for you!
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And of course, the new bunch of characters Twilight has ended up with piques my interest as well.
Oh excellent – I wanted to make them diverse without seeming over-diverse. In a sense, they have all the established roles between them (the old wizard, the wise priestess, the cheerful halfling thief, the dark and shadowy warlock, the naïve youngster, and the hulking warrior) but they go beyond those sort of clichés, I think.
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I especially like the gold elven lady--she strikes me as strong and wise (and defiant) but with an amazingly tender side as well, and it's not often you see a beautiful old paired with an old human man.
Lucky man, eh?
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It's almost like a glimpse of some of the drawbacks of marrying a person who is bound to "get old on you" very, very fast. That, and I just like inter-racial relationships for some reason (I think because they tend to denote characters who have willingly stepped outside their comfort-zone, and I admire that).
Good, good! And the thing about Taslin and Asson is that they have been together for, I don’t know, 40-50 years – since he was a young, handsome man. You’re just seeing the later stages of their relationship, where they’re as close (perhaps closer) as a couple that’s past its 50-year anniversary. Felt very peaceful, that sense – a little sad, but also right. And that’s the feeling I wanted for Taslin and Asson.
(Incidentally, when I was writing them, the image of Drizzt and a very old Cattie-brie came into my mind, and I thought “maybe this is where they’d end up.”)
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I like Davoren Hellsheart too, and I must say, his comments make me laugh. Actually, the name "Hellsheart" does too. But hey, that's not a bad thing. Overall the dialogue feels very fresh and lively, making the novel highly readable for me.
Excellent. Yeah, Davoren’s an interesting character – it was tempting to make him “totally scary,” but there’s more to him than that. You get the sense that he’s “trying too hard”?
And it can’t be easy, trying to be intimidating when you’ve got someone like Twilight around.
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I also must agree with Beezer when he said this book has elements in it that are similar to the "Saw" movies--in fact I am very much reminded of the beginning of "Saw 2", where a band of totally different (and not necessarily heroic) strangers are forced to band together in a strange dungeon-like place just to survive.
A source of inspiration, indeed, in much the same way “Desperado,” “Tombstone” and “High Plains Drifter” inspired Ghostwalker.
Glad you’re enjoying the book!
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 21 Mar 2007 15:18:09 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 15:19:48
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Originally posted by jespin
First off let me thankyou Erik, i find your style awsome! I'm already done it, realms novel go quicker then snow balls in hades around me. Your books have been great reads. as for the original party in the prologue, I like it when books feel like they start in the middle of the action, it make you feel like there is more going on in the realms than just what your reading. When the group catches up I do have a few questions but till then, Great Job!
Glad you enjoyed, and thank you for the kind words!
I am a fan of the in media res -- "in the middle of things" -- style of writing as well. Hearkens back to Homer and the Iliad, which starts in the 10th year of the Trojan War, in the middle of Achilles's rage at Agamemnon.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 15:24:16
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quote:
Originally posted by TheGato
She certainly does seem to want to keep that scar on her hand concealed, Erik. Could it be because she inflicted it on herself during that wild dream in Ten Day? Was it actually a dream though? hmmm... seems more like it was "someone" else actually doing it hmm...
Hmm, indeed. That scar is indeed self-inflicted, from her "dream."
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Oh yea! I agree Rinonalyrna Fathomlin. Id love to read more about the group from the prologue as well. Especiall after reading That Time of the Tenday. They really seem like interesting companions and characters.
And that makes their passing all the harder, eh?
Don't worry -- they won't be going alone. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2007 : 23:42:12
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Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Well call me a criminal, then, as there isn’t a whole lot of explication about the original party in the novel itself.
Their purpose in the first chapter was largely to set the tone, and because you expect them to win through – not get massacred. (That’s the tone, after all.)
And because I was occasionally accused of “playing too nice” with characters in Ghostwalker (i.e. “so-and-so just can’t die!”). Oh not so.
That said, the party is featured in my webstory, however, if you go to that particular thread. It gets more information on the various peoples, and how they relate to one another. “That Time of the Tenday” takes place roughly 13-15 days before the first chapter of Depths.
Pages 56-57 are significant as well, and you’ll be wanting to get to chapter 11, which starts on page 117. I think, if you’re interested in the original party, you’ll get a kick out of that particular chapter.
I do plan to read that webstory, probably after I finish reading the book. And yes, I have to hand it to you--you do make all the characters (not just the side characters) in the book vunerable. Not that I thought you had "overpowered characters" in Ghostwalker, but I always like it when characters aren't "untouchable" by virtue of being main characters.
Believe it or not...I also liked the bit about Twilight having to relieve herself. I've mentioned before in a very recent thread about how elves--unlike just about any other race--often seem to be "airbrushed" and scrubbed clean of anything that isn't perfect and exquisite. It's refreshing to read about Twilight needing to do something, well, human.
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Oh excellent – I wanted to make them diverse without seeming over-diverse. In a sense, they have all the established roles between them (the old wizard, the wise priestess, the cheerful halfling thief, the dark and shadowy warlock, the naïve youngster, and the hulking warrior) but they go beyond those sort of clichés, I think.
I think so too, because I read their dialogue I just see a bunch of people, not "classes and races". There's an "oddness" about all of them that I like, too, and that's one way to keep me hooked. Although, I have to admit it is hard to think of Liet as a youngster when he is almost 30 years of age. After all, this "kid" is older than I am. I'm guess he has a youthful and naive type of personality, or lacks confidence in himself and thinks of himself as "young and untried" as a way of dealing with that.
Speaking of Liet...is it me, or does Twilight always seem to get overly involved with guys who are...well, on the dopey side? First there was Yldar, now Liet (I know there are others, of course, but these are the ones who I've read about). I had to laugh when she thought, in regards to Liet, "I thought humans reached adulthood at age 20". That's just so true and applicable--a guy about 30 who hasn't reached adulthood yet.
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Good, good! And the thing about Taslin and Asson is that they have been together for, I don’t know, 40-50 years – since he was a young, handsome man. You’re just seeing the later stages of their relationship, where they’re as close (perhaps closer) as a couple that’s past its 50-year anniversary. Felt very peaceful, that sense – a little sad, but also right. And that’s the feeling I wanted for Taslin and Asson.
(Incidentally, when I was writing them, the image of Drizzt and a very old Cattie-brie came into my mind, and I thought “maybe this is where they’d end up.”)
And any number of elf-human pairings. Anyway, I like both Asson and Taslin and I'm pulling for them both to survive the story. Heck, I don't really want anyone in the group to die, but I have the feeling that isn't going to happen.
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Excellent. Yeah, Davoren’s an interesting character – it was tempting to make him “totally scary,” but there’s more to him than that. You get the sense that he’s “trying too hard”?
Yes, I do. He definitely comes off as someone who is trying to force a certain (unlikable) image on everyone he comes into contact with. I wouldn't be surprised if he gave himself the name "Hellsheart". *chuckles*
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A source of inspiration, indeed, in much the same way “Desperado,” “Tombstone” and “High Plains Drifter” inspired Ghostwalker.
Glad you’re enjoying the book!
Cheers
Definitely. I wonder when the scary puppet will show up. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 21 Mar 2007 23:42:34 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2007 : 14:43:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
And yes, I have to hand it to you--you do make all the characters (not just the side characters) in the book vunerable. Not that I thought you had "overpowered characters" in Ghostwalker, but I always like it when characters aren't "untouchable" by virtue of being main characters.
Oh you have no idea. Oh!
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Believe it or not...I also liked the bit about Twilight having to relieve herself. I've mentioned before in a very recent thread about how elves--unlike just about any other race--often seem to be "airbrushed" and scrubbed clean of anything that isn't perfect and exquisite. It's refreshing to read about Twilight needing to do something, well, human.
Indeed so. I was glad that bit got left in, even if it's varying a little bit from the usual fantasy style ("Defecate? Me? Surely you freakin' jest!"). I can count on one hand the number of times anything regarding bodily functions is mentioned outside of it being the joke or focus of a passage. My theory is that people generally don't want to bother with such things when they're reading -- interrupts the flow.
I was inspired to write that passage by a reply on these very boards, actually, some months ago, by Ed of the Greenwood through the lovely Hooded One, talking about how adventurers "take care of business" in the wild. I believe Twilight mentions the very item she uses, and how glad she is she keeps a pair wound around her boots.
And it's a significant thing -- hunger and thirst are significant enemies in a situation like theirs (as you'll see), and it can't be easy to keep oneself clean. Those little "human-issues" we take for granted become significant when one's needs aren't exactly addressed.
(Though I do stop short of describing a battle where the character has an overwhelming urge -- if you catch my drift.)
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I think so too, because I read their dialogue I just see a bunch of people, not "classes and races". There's an "oddness" about all of them that I like, too, and that's one way to keep me hooked.
How marvelous.
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Although, I have to admit it is hard to think of Liet as a youngster when he is almost 30 years of age. After all, this "kid" is older than I am. I'm guess he has a youthful and naive type of personality, or lacks confidence in himself and thinks of himself as "young and untried" as a way of dealing with that.
Hmm. Yes -- I wonder every day if I did his character right.
I guess we'll see what you think by the end of the book.
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Speaking of Liet...is it me, or does Twilight always seem to get overly involved with guys who are...well, on the dopey side? First there was Yldar, now Liet (I know there are others, of course, but these are the ones who I've read about).
(Well, there aren't really any "others" until Wizards says so -- here's hoping I get the chance.)
No, you're definitely seeing a pattern, and it's definitely intentional. What one has to wonder is, "what attracts Twilight to that sort of man?"
Rather than me explaining, this is something that would make an excellent discussion. What do YOU think?
I might mention that it has occasionally happened in Twilight's past history that she's been involved in romantic entanglements with people who aren't "on the dopey side." And those haven't ended too happily for her. Nope, nope. 
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I had to laugh when she thought, in regards to Liet, "I thought humans reached adulthood at age 20". That's just so true and applicable--a guy about 30 who hasn't reached adulthood yet.
Indeed. You know those sort of people who are just "young at heart" (and in the head)?
Liet's definitely on the immature side -- or maybe he's not immature, but he definitely suffers from a lack of self-confidence and uncertainty in certain situations Twilight cannot fail to precipitate.
Hmm. I'm looking forward to seeing your evolving opinion.
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And any number of elf-human pairings. Anyway, I like both Asson and Taslin and I'm pulling for them both to survive the story. Heck, I don't really want anyone in the group to die, but I have the feeling that isn't going to happen.
Oh yeah -- I'm going to give the standard GRRM (specifically relating to A Song of Ice and Fire) warning: "Don't get too attached to any of the characters in this story."
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Excellent. Yeah, Davoren’s an interesting character – it was tempting to make him “totally scary,” but there’s more to him than that. You get the sense that he’s “trying too hard”?
Yes, I do. He definitely comes off as someone who is trying to force a certain (unlikable) image on everyone he comes into contact with.
You're on the right track here -- now the question is "Why?"
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I wouldn't be surprised if he gave himself the name "Hellsheart". *chuckles*
He probably thought it was really scary, but some people just laugh.
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Glad you’re enjoying the book!
Definitely. I wonder when the scary puppet will show up.
That depends which scary puppet we're talking about, but I imagine you mean the one on page 136-7.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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TheGato
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2007 : 15:04:15
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Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
(Well, there aren't really any "others" until Wizards says so -- here's hoping I get the chance.)
No, you're definitely seeing a pattern, and it's definitely intentional. What one has to wonder is, "what attracts Twilight to that sort of man?"
Rather than me explaining, this is something that would make an excellent discussion. What do YOU think?
I might mention that it has occasionally happened in Twilight's past history that she's been involved in romantic entanglements with people who aren't "on the dopey side." And those haven't ended too happily for her. Nope, nope.
I was thinking about this pattern as well.
I think its something like, given 'Light's mischievous personality and the games she likes to play; toying with a naive boy is all the more fun and easy.
Or perhaps, since she herself is so young, in elven terms and in heart/mind that she finds a sort of link/attraction to that in her lovers/companion/plaything.
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Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Oh yeah -- I'm going to give the standard GRRM (specifically relating to A Song of Ice and Fire) warning: "Don't get too attached to any of the characters in this story."
Thats one of the things I love about your writting style, Erik. Its down and dirty when it comes to a characters survival or even just unforsaken, ugly things that can happen to them. So much more realistic. And something that I havnt seen a lot of in stories from the realms. (not that Im even close to an expert on the realms stories) |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2007 : 15:22:53
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Originally posted by TheGato
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
No, you're definitely seeing a pattern, and it's definitely intentional. What one has to wonder is, "what attracts Twilight to that sort of man?"
I was thinking about this pattern as well.
I think its something like, given 'Light's mischievous personality and the games she likes to play; toying with a naive boy is all the more fun and easy.
Excellent theory. I wonder if there's a touch of insecurity there? Fear of a lasting commitment/relationship?
It should also be noted that not all her romantic entanglements have been with naive boys (or girls, for that matter) -- some have been much deeper and more complicated. Could she be going for relief? Taking it easy when selecting bedfellows?
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Or perhaps, since she herself is so young, in elven terms and in heart/mind that she finds a sort of link/attraction to that in her lovers/companion/plaything.
That could indeed be. How old, by your estimation, is Twilight?
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Thats one of the things I love about your writting style, Erik. Its down and dirty when it comes to a characters survival or even just unforsaken, ugly things that can happen to them. So much more realistic.
Why thank you.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 00:33:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Indeed so. I was glad that bit got left in, even if it's varying a little bit from the usual fantasy style ("Defecate? Me? Surely you freakin' jest!"). I can count on one hand the number of times anything regarding bodily functions is mentioned outside of it being the joke or focus of a passage. My theory is that people generally don't want to bother with such things when they're reading -- interrupts the flow.
I was inspired to write that passage by a reply on these very boards, actually, some months ago, by Ed of the Greenwood through the lovely Hooded One, talking about how adventurers "take care of business" in the wild. I believe Twilight mentions the very item she uses, and how glad she is she keeps a pair wound around her boots.
And it's a significant thing -- hunger and thirst are significant enemies in a situation like theirs (as you'll see), and it can't be easy to keep oneself clean. Those little "human-issues" we take for granted become significant when one's needs aren't exactly addressed.
(Though I do stop short of describing a battle where the character has an overwhelming urge -- if you catch my drift.)
*smiles* I like these references. I like it when fanasty stories don't portray humans (and similar creatures) as machines who don't require any "creature comforts" or necessities. I don't think it breaks the flow as long as it's well written and appropriate...and I liked what Twilight kept in her boots.
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Speaking of Liet...is it me, or does Twilight always seem to get overly involved with guys who are...well, on the dopey side? First there was Yldar, now Liet (I know there are others, of course, but these are the ones who I've read about).
(Well, there aren't really any "others" until Wizards says so -- here's hoping I get the chance.)
No, you're definitely seeing a pattern, and it's definitely intentional. What one has to wonder is, "what attracts Twilight to that sort of man?"
Rather than me explaining, this is something that would make an excellent discussion. What do YOU think?
I might mention that it has occasionally happened in Twilight's past history that she's been involved in romantic entanglements with people who aren't "on the dopey side." And those haven't ended too happily for her. Nope, nope.
Not that Taslin's opinion is necessarily more than just an opinion, but apparently Taslin sees Twilight as a bit of a child, herself. So maybe there is a chemistry there that works thanks to Twilight being on the childlike/childish side herself (and I would agree that she has that side to her). Or maybe she likes having a man she can take charge of more easily. *shrug* Having some experience with romantic partnership myself, sometimes reasons for attraction are hard to fathom.
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Indeed. You know those sort of people who are just "young at heart" (and in the head)?
Oh, sure. At times, I can be like that myself (though NOT like Liet!).
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Liet's definitely on the immature side -- or maybe he's not immature, but he definitely suffers from a lack of self-confidence and uncertainty in certain situations Twilight cannot fail to precipitate.
Hmm. I'm looking forward to seeing your evolving opinion.
Thanks. I have to admit though, that I'm very surprised at (and respectful of) the fact that Liet hasn't cracked under the circumstances he's in, considering his apparent personality. He's probably stronger than he appears to be.
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Oh yeah -- I'm going to give the standard GRRM (specifically relating to A Song of Ice and Fire) warning: "Don't get too attached to any of the characters in this story."
I'll try. Unfortunately I tend grow quite attached to characters I really like.
I'm still loving the book (I'm on Chapter 9 now), and I look forward to learning all the answers to my niggling questions. I do have one last question though...
Why does Twilight see human sleep as "barbaric"? It just strikes me as odd for her to describe it in such a pejorative way, since she seems to be pretty open-minded and cosmopolitian otherwise and not the type of elf to be, well, racist. Did she mean sleep is barbaric partly because it is human? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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TheGato
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 12:59:47
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Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Excellent theory. I wonder if there's a touch of insecurity there? Fear of a lasting commitment/relationship?
It should also be noted that not all her romantic entanglements have been with naive boys (or girls, for that matter) -- some have been much deeper and more complicated. Could she be going for relief? Taking it easy when selecting bedfellows?
OH yea that would make good sense. The others are or become far too "serious" for her so shes something much lighter. I think that could really fit her.
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That could indeed be. How old, by your estimation, is Twilight?
hmmm.... Im thinking shes under 200. Perhaps somewhere between 130 and 168? |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 13:57:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Not that Taslin's opinion is necessarily more than just an opinion, but apparently Taslin sees Twilight as a bit of a child, herself. So maybe there is a chemistry there that works thanks to Twilight being on the childlike/childish side herself (and I would agree that she has that side to her). Or maybe she likes having a man she can take charge of more easily. *shrug* Having some experience with romantic partnership myself, sometimes reasons for attraction are hard to fathom.
It rather seems like Twilight is most interested in "fun" in her relationships, rather than any kind of deep connection.
And Taslin isn't far wrong -- Twilight is a fairly young adult (though she is an adult). It's also reasonable to assume that an elf might see Twilight's tendency toward impatience and variety of emotion as an "immature" thing. She reacts impulsively and emotionally, more so than an elf. 'Twould be like calling a woman in her mid-twenties/early thirties like an adolescent -- Twilight, like Liet, seems to be young at heart.
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I have to admit though, that I'm very surprised at (and respectful of) the fact that Liet hasn't cracked under the circumstances he's in, considering his apparent personality. He's probably stronger than he appears to be.
Indeed -- he may indeed have some inner strengths. Twilight eventually addresses this.
quote:
quote:
Oh yeah -- I'm going to give the standard GRRM (specifically relating to A Song of Ice and Fire) warning: "Don't get too attached to any of the characters in this story."
I'll try. Unfortunately I tend grow quite attached to characters I really like.
Understood -- one can't always help doing that.
quote:
Why does Twilight see human sleep as "barbaric"? It just strikes me as odd for her to describe it in such a pejorative way, since she seems to be pretty open-minded and cosmopolitian otherwise and not the type of elf to be, well, racist. Did she mean sleep is barbaric partly because it is human?
As I recall, she doesn't think *sleep* is necessarily barbaric (though its effect upon her is not as restful as the Reverie, so she doesn't prefer it to the elven sleep), but that the *dreams* she has (most of them involving Liet) are barbaric. And that is for their content, not their nature as dreams.
quote:
Originally posted by TheGato
OH yea that would make good sense. The others are or become far too "serious" for her so shes something much lighter. I think that could really fit her.
Sounds good to me.
quote:
quote:
That could indeed be. How old, by your estimation, is Twilight?
hmmm.... Im thinking shes under 200. Perhaps somewhere between 130 and 168?
Solid.
In my conception, Twilight is in her early 130s.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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TheGato
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 16:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Solid.
In my conception, Twilight is in her early 130s.
Hehe... Do I win a prize?? Ill take the [spoiler removed] cupie doll! |
Edited by - TheGato on 23 Mar 2007 18:29:10 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 17:10:03
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Woah -- such a jest might be construed as a spoiler for those who haven't read that far (i.e. are only in the chapter 1-7 thread).
quote:
Originally posted by TheGato
Hehe... Do I win a prize?? Ill take the [SPOILER SPOILER] cupie doll!
Oh my -- I can see the mechandising now:
"Davoren Hellsheart, complete with real flames that spring from his hands!"
"Asson and Taslin two-pack - body parts removable."
"Malibu Fox-at-Twilight, now with flirting action and complete with shiny amulet of mystery!"
"Recreate your own scenes of awkward sexual tension -- the sky's no limit to your imagination!"
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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TheGato
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 18:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Woah -- such a jest might be construed as a spoiler for those who haven't read that far (i.e. are only in the chapter 1-7 thread).
Jenkies!!! For some reason I was thinkin this was in the other thread when I posted that!
quote:
Oh my -- I can see the mechandising now:
"Davoren Hellsheart, complete with real flames that spring from his hands!"
"Asson and Taslin two-pack - body parts removable."
"Malibu Fox-at-Twilight, now with flirting action and complete with shiny amulet of mystery!"
"Recreate your own scenes of awkward sexual tension -- the sky's no limit to your imagination!"
LMAO yea.
..."New from Blamo!" |
Edited by - TheGato on 23 Mar 2007 18:27:14 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2007 : 19:33:07
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quote:
Originally posted by TheGato
Jenkies!!! For some reason I was thinkin this was in the other thread when I posted that!
Well edited! Many thanks.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2007 : 03:51:10
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Erik, I am really enjoying the pacing of this so far.(Except it is hard to put it down to write this!)
I also got a kick out of the webstory. I was very pleased to see 'Light have a Human with Auburn Hair for her love interest, but oh well.....It only took him like 3 pages to die in the novel. I'm not sure he rep'd us Redheads fairly!!!
In all seriousness though, it was cool to see the "good guys" suffer what I would refer to as "An Old Fashioned Irish Ass-Whippin' ". Not many authors have the bravado to risk turning off readers early. I think it worked out Smashingly for you!!
I really like the pairing of Taslin and Asson, diversity can be a great thing in relationships. Even thoug you get the question in your head, "What is a smokin hot gold-elf doing with that old decrepit Spell hurler?" (Can you say Erik and Shelly?? wink wink)
I am also hoping 'Light makes great use of the old mans name in a good jest......"I'll tell you what she's doing with an old man like -him...didn't you see the Ass-on him?????......"
I really think you could second guess every character's motives in this novel. I think you did a reat job of making Nothing as it seems.
Like the Halfling who seems to be able to access just as much "magic" as she needs to by. Interesting. I leave questions un-asked for know and she which you answer for us later.
Tally Ho!!
P.S. Thanks for the tip of the cap to the scribes of Candlekeep...
That was very Cool!! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 25 Mar 2007 03:57:51 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 00:29:28
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Question for those who have it
Are the novels date stamped at all? (Ideally at the start of each chapter??) |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 01:23:50
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I have to say this has been a very fast moving, interesting read so far.
I like the fact that, as Erik pointed out, in a way a lot of the characters are "textbook party members," in that they are all more or less stereotypes of their positions in the group, but yet, as the story has unfolded so far, all of them seem to be deeper than their initial "role."
Still trying to figure out what is going on with Slip. Everyone has secrets, but its interesting that she is apparently "roguish," and reveres Yondalla, but is hesitant to say that she is a divine caster of any sort . . . its one of those puzzles that keeps turning in my head.
Oh, RF, in my opinion, if you read the webstory, Arandon kind of fits the Yldar/Liet template that you and Erik were discussing.
I'm interested to see what Liet's story is as well. Sure, I'm wanting to see everybody's secrets, but I call out Liet more or less because he managed to stand firm with Davoren when he was manifesting his little "fiendish influence." |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 04:12:24
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| I just started this book, so I'm barely into it, but I had to jump online and say thanks for the goliath! Out of all the "new" races, this is the one that really grabbed me and has been completely absorbed into our Realms campaigns. Aside from that, all of the characters thus far are immensely interesting and I can't wait to read more of this book. Granted I am barely into this book, but I am curious if Erik has seen the movie Cube. I haven't seen Saw II which has been mentioned in this thread, but Cube immediately came to mind as I was reading. |
War to slay, not to fight long and glorious.
Aermhar of the Tangletrees
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Anthologies and Tales Overviews
Check out my custom action figures, hand-painted miniatures, gaming products, and other stuff on eBay.
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 14:29:28
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| I was reminded of Cube also. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 23:36:43
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Whew! Go out of town for a wedding over the weekend and look what happens!
Keep 'em coming, folks! I'm glad you're enjoying the novel!
To start with the answers:
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I also got a kick out of the webstory. I was very pleased to see 'Light have a Human with Auburn Hair for her love interest, but oh well.....It only took him like 3 pages to die in the novel. I'm not sure he rep'd us Redheads fairly!!!
Yeah, probably not. But he wasn't a bad guy, really . . . just unlucky enough to get involved with a bad girl.
quote:
In all seriousness though, it was cool to see the "good guys" suffer what I would refer to as "An Old Fashioned Irish Ass-Whippin' ". Not many authors have the bravado to risk turning off readers early. I think it worked out Smashingly for you!!
Why thank you. I thought it was just the perfect scene to set the necessary tone.
quote:
I really like the pairing of Taslin and Asson, diversity can be a great thing in relationships. Even thoug you get the question in your head, "What is a smokin hot gold-elf doing with that old decrepit Spell hurler?"
Well, I think elves are turned off by age considerably less than humans are -- or perhaps they have a different view of it.
Also, Taslin originally hooked up with Asson when he was a younger, handsome, and not-as-frail man. (This would be about 50-60 years ago.)
quote:
(Can you say Erik and Shelly?? wink wink)
Hey -- I am not *that* old.
quote:
I am also hoping 'Light makes great use of the old mans name in a good jest......"I'll tell you what she's doing with an old man like -him...didn't you see the Ass-on him?????......"
Ha! I think I dropped the ball on that one -- and it's not necessarily bad that I did. Probably would have been too jarring.
quote:
I really think you could second guess every character's motives in this novel. I think you did a reat job of making Nothing as it seems.
I like mysteries and puzzles. And my two main inspirations for the tone/feel of this novel ("Saw" and "The Thing") are both.
quote:
Like the Halfling who seems to be able to access just as much "magic" as she needs to by. Interesting. I leave questions un-asked for know and she which you answer for us later.
I should note that Slip was, from the beginning, my editor's *favorite* character.
quote:
P.S. Thanks for the tip of the cap to the scribes of Candlekeep...
That was very Cool!!
And very much deserved. For without you, my readers and colleagues, this novel would not have been possible.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 23:43:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Question for those who have it
Are the novels date stamped at all? (Ideally at the start of each chapter??)
I don't believe the novel is date stamped, but the webstory (which takes place a tenday or so before) is stamped as Uktar, 1374. Depths itself takes place in Nightal, 1374.
The individual chapters are purposefully not date-stamped, as the characters have no way of telling time. It's one of those subtle little tricks.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 23:48:18
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I have to say this has been a very fast moving, interesting read so far.
I'm glad you're enjoying it.
quote:
Still trying to figure out what is going on with Slip. Everyone has secrets, but its interesting that she is apparently "roguish," and reveres Yondalla, but is hesitant to say that she is a divine caster of any sort . . . its one of those puzzles that keeps turning in my head.
Yes, she's a mysterious one, isn't she? Hardly the happy little prankster.
If anyone is interested in the game mechanic behind Slip, it's that she's a Favored Soul (Complete Divine), not a Cleric. Thus she has divine powers but no real training in an established church (though she's clearly a worshipper).
quote:
Oh, RF, in my opinion, if you read the webstory, Arandon kind of fits the Yldar/Liet template that you and Erik were discussing.
Once again, the pretty/fun sort of man, who can be enjoyed without overly investing yourself. (Though clearly Twilight has some feelings for said individuals.) 'Light keeps her relationships short and . . . well . . . light.
I wonder what happens when Twilight stumbles upon someone who's a little deeper . . .
quote:
I'm interested to see what Liet's story is as well. Sure, I'm wanting to see everybody's secrets, but I call out Liet more or less because he managed to stand firm with Davoren when he was manifesting his little "fiendish influence."
Indeed. And what was up with the wights? He just *scared* them off?
Secrets!
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2007 : 23:56:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
I just started this book, so I'm barely into it, but I had to jump online and say thanks for the goliath! Out of all the "new" races, this is the one that really grabbed me and has been completely absorbed into our Realms campaigns.
You're very welcome, sir!
Gargan was an interesting character for me. As I was designing the party, I thought "hmm, need some melee support, as Twilight and Taslin just don't cut it . . . and Liet's a wuss, more or less, so . . ." And voila. My head split open and he sprang, full-forged, out of my head, bringing all his wonderful permutations to the story.
And if you like the goliaths/goliath culture, you're really going to like these two chapters I'm thinking of . . . keep reading.
quote:
Aside from that, all of the characters thus far are immensely interesting and I can't wait to read more of this book.
Excellent! I hope they continue to be so. Interesting, that is.
quote:
Granted I am barely into this book, but I am curious if Erik has seen the movie Cube. I haven't seen Saw II which has been mentioned in this thread, but Cube immediately came to mind as I was reading.
I have not seen "Cube," but have been frequently told that I should.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 01:28:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Once again, the pretty/fun sort of man, who can be enjoyed without overly investing yourself. (Though clearly Twilight has some feelings for said individuals.) 'Light keeps her relationships short and . . . well . . . light.
Well I'm on Chapter 17 right now (and I won't spoil anything, don't worry!) but I am definitely getting the impression that Twilight doesn't like to get very close to people or invest too much in them. She also appears to have a certain disdain (perhaps jealousy?) for those who have no trouble or problem with having close relationships.
It all makes me wonder what the heck happened to her (and if she's a lot more sensitive and easily hurt than she lets on). It's a shame that she's all closed up when she hasn't even lived that long for an elf.
And thanks for the comments and answers from before. And KEJR, I'll check out that webstory when I'm done with the book. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 27 Mar 2007 01:30:00 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 02:07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I have not seen "Cube," but have been frequently told that I should.
Is it anything like this Cube? |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 02:48:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Well I'm on Chapter 17 right now (and I won't spoil anything, don't worry!) but I am definitely getting the impression that Twilight doesn't like to get very close to people or invest too much in them. She also appears to have a certain disdain (perhaps jealousy?) for those who have no trouble or problem with having close relationships.
I'm glad I've successfully conveyed that impression! All those are dead-on. Disdain to cover up her jealousy -- insecurity in her ability to do so herself.
A messy, less-than-comfortable past.
The thing about Depths that makes this a perfect vehicle for conveying these things about Twilight's persona is that she's caught underground, cut off from her usual escape route -- running away (ala "tGT").
quote:
It all makes me wonder what the heck happened to her (and if she's a lot more sensitive and easily hurt than she lets on). It's a shame that she's all closed up when she hasn't even lived that long for an elf.
Oh, it's all because of *Him.*
The question, really, is who *Him* is.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2007 : 03:02:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I don't believe the novel is date stamped, but the webstory (which takes place a tenday or so before) is stamped as Uktar, 1374. Depths itself takes place in Nightal, 1374.
The individual chapters are purposefully not date-stamped, as the characters have no way of telling time. It's one of those subtle little tricks.
Cheers
Erik, am I right in thinking that 'Light Explained to the rest of the how she and Taslin could tell what general time it is?
P.S. Thanks for continuing to you feverishly answer any and all questions! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 27 Mar 2007 03:07:34 |
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Depths of Madness: Prologue & Chapters 1 - 7
