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NiTessine
Acolyte
Finland
34 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 20:57:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Verghityax
Are there any cities/villages/important places mapped?
There's a map of Wheloon and another one of southeast Cormyr, but it's a really small one. |
http://nitessine.wordpress.com/
Worlds in a Handful of Dice |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 22:18:56
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| I think 3e FR art would feel more appropriate and interesting if it had a rough overall direction, an identifiable mood or atmosphere, even within a single sourcebook. Honestly, Eberron uses pretty much the same artists, but it's the way the pieces fit together that make the images feel like they belong in the same world. Also, More landscapes or backgrounds incorporated into character images would give a better view of the world rather than just singular characters void of context. I'm pleased to see this Cormyr adventure contain scenic pieces. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 22:21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Archwizard
I think 3e FR art would feel more appropriate and interesting if it had a rough overall direction, an identifiable mood or atmosphere, even within a single sourcebook. Honestly, Eberron uses pretty much the same artists, but it's the way the pieces fit together that make the images feel like they belong in the same world. Also, More landscapes or backgrounds incorporated into character images would give a better view of the world rather than just singular characters void of context. I'm pleased to see this Cormyr adventure contain scenic pieces.
I agree. We've seen such a diverse range of styles it's hard to get a feel for the Realms, even if the Realms is a bit of a melting pot. Some of it I like, some I don't, a lot I'm fairly nonplussed by.
Can somebody explain this 'delve' format to me? I'm afraid I'm totally ignorant of what it is. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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NiTessine
Acolyte
Finland
34 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 23:24:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
I agree. We've seen such a diverse range of styles it's hard to get a feel for the Realms, even if the Realms is a bit of a melting pot. Some of it I like, some I don't, a lot I'm fairly nonplussed by.
Can somebody explain this 'delve' format to me? I'm afraid I'm totally ignorant of what it is.
Here's an article explaining it.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060317a |
http://nitessine.wordpress.com/
Worlds in a Handful of Dice |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 23:47:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I'm not saying illustrations maketh the book but they are something we've come to expect. The sages here have very rarely, in my time here, criticised artwork.
I have. I've not liked most of the artwork we've gotten for the last several years. Most I simply don't like; it's not like I actively dislike it. However, there has been some stuff -- particularly recent and upcoming novel covers -- that I've actively disliked, or even loathed.
That rather nicely sums up my own thoughts on 3e artwork for FR sourcebooks.
I really don't have anything more to add.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2007 : 23:58:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Reefy
Can somebody explain this 'delve' format to me? I'm afraid I'm totally ignorant of what it is.
Basically it helps to set up what a lot of DMs do when they read through an adventure to get it ready. For each major encounter, there will be a tactical map to show where the encounter will likely happen, and sections calling out any special conditions that might go on during the fight (i.e. if the ground is slippery, if there is fog an thus concealment, that sort of thing).
It will also have any variables that might depend on HOW the encounters start, like if an NPC spellcaster casts any spells on themselves if they are alerted to the party before hand.
The point is to take all the stuff that can get lost in the text of the adventure and call it out specifically when the encounters start. Its good for keeping track of a lot of information, and it helps cut down on DM prep time, but it does take up a lot more space than the old style adventure where you just figured out how the encounter played out when you see that X lives in room Y. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2007 : 21:45:12
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| Ok, thanks KEJR and NiTessine. I've had a read of it and looked at the examples they provided. I can see the advantage of 'everything in one place', but equally I can see it taking up a lot more room, which concerns me slightly. I hope that it is combined with an overview so that you don't lose sight of the big picture while focusing on the details. Good DM preparation helps a lot anyway, as I found out when I had to run a session almost totally on the fly last week, having completely forgotten I was supposed to be running one. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2007 : 23:36:58
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Who cares about the art? I'm personally disappointed in this book. It's because it's the beginning of a loooong line of more disappointing FR books.
Whatever happened to regional FR books and miscellaneous FR info books like Serpent Kingdoms, Lost Empires of Faerun, and such? I really miss those. This year sucks for FR books and I'm not really interested in Expedition to Undermountain nor Grand History of the Realms (especially since it's free, if it's the same one here.)
Instead we have 4 super adventures this year for FR, all of which are going to be used once before they're left and forgotten on the shelves.
Are they killing the FR line or something?
Here's to hoping 2008 is much better for the Realms. |
Edited by - Razz on 14 Mar 2007 23:38:26 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 00:01:03
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I can understand that it might "suck" from your point of view. I know we all have our ideas on what would make for our ideal sourcebooks (I'm still waiting for Dwarves of Faerun, Faiths of Faerun, and the Complete History of Every Sneaky Thing Khelben Has Ever Done). But I think you are being a bit too harsh by judging these products before they are even out.
I know that Realms adventures past have had plenty of inspirational material beyond their immediate use as adventures. Given the authors involved, I am looking forward to seeing what they have come up with, and I doubt that they will get forgotten on my shelves.
Now, do I think that they went into overkill putting out this many adventures in one year? Yeah, I do. But I also remember about two years ago a large number of FR fans complaining that there weren't any FR adventures since City of the Spider Queen and that WOTC should put some more out again. Granted, I don't think anyone at the time thought that they would get four hardcover adventures in one year . . .
I'm more than willing to wait and see what each of these has in it, and honestly, I am REALLY looking forward to Grand History of the Realms. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 00:40:40
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Nothing wrong with prebuilt adventures. They help DM's who perhaps lack time for any number of reasons and they help new DM's. Now, I too feel that perhaps all three big releases this year being adventures is a bit much, but the reason for releasing them together is obvious. No point in making people wait a year for the second and third parts of the adventure. No one would buy it!
Sure, the lack of art disappointed me, but I'm willing to give these adventures a shot.  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 00:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Nothing wrong with prebuilt adventures. They help DM's who perhaps lack time for any number of reasons and they help new DM's. Now, I too feel that perhaps all three big releases this year being adventures is a bit much, but the reason for releasing them together is obvious. No point in making people wait a year for the second and third parts of the adventure. No one would buy it!
Sure, the lack of art disappointed me, but I'm willing to give these adventures a shot.
WOTC learned that lesson with the Spider Queen module. So many people wouldn't use it until they found out how the novels ended. So, it makes sense that they are releasing the trilogy in the same year. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 00:50:04
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| Good point Kuje. Even though the adventure is only peripherally tied to the events in the WOTSQ books, I'm betting quite a few people held on just in case Kiaraunsalee or any of the events of the adventure were mentioned in the series, which tended to scuttle the value of the adventure as far as standing on its own merits. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 00:58:39
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Good point Kuje. Even though the adventure is only peripherally tied to the events in the WOTSQ books, I'm betting quite a few people held on just in case Kiaraunsalee or any of the events of the adventure were mentioned in the series, which tended to scuttle the value of the adventure as far as standing on its own merits.
I know I did and so did many of the table top DM's I had. They were ticked that they had to wait 2 or 3 years to find out how the novels ended because they didn't feel comfortable using the module since it tied in with the novels. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 01:24:56
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| Exactly. The last thing you want is to be waiting for months on end before your able to continue the storyline. Your PC's (and players) have moved on. What you want in an ideal situation is for the next adventure to be coming out a few weeks before your group has finished the first part, so that the DM has time to seemlessly intergrate it into the sessions. Which would appear to be what WOTC is aiming for. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 01:33:14
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Okay, we seem to be deviating somewhat from the actual topic of this scroll.
Let's leave the discussion about WotC marketing practices for a more appropriate scroll, eh?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 03:21:00
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| Excerpts are up. |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 05:22:35
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SPOILER
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One of the previewed encounters, the one on the Plane of Shadow, mentions an NPC named Esvele. Could that be Esvele Graycastle, the Sharran priestess statted out in Lords of Darkness? I like it when Non-novel NPCs get some play. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 10:50:59
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Esvele is such a bad girl.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 12:52:04
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Excerpts are here.
Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave Excerpts
Looking pretty good. Nice to see Esvele used, purely for the nostalgia of it. At least they spelt the name right this time! |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 13:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Esvele is such a bad girl.
-- George Krashos
What makes this funnier to me is that one of the pc's that I will be running through this module is named Esvelle, and is an Aasimar Bard and so ought to be able to make use of the harp provided in the encounter by Esvele the bad girl. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 15:49:27
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Heh, and I have a player from Cormyr whose name is "Graycastle." When I first saw Esvele, I thought that I needed to work out some kind of familial relationship between the two, but I had forgotten about her until this came up . . . 
The only thing that I saw in the preview that didn't thrill me was a dragon with a "nickname" again, but the dragon's name isn't too bad, and at least its not based on its color or its breath weapon. I was very happy to see that they addressed what jumped out at me fairly quickly when reading the description of the adventure . . . a temple of Mystra in Cormyr? Since when . . . now we know,
The preview definately has me more interested, and looking forward to it arriving in the mail when it finally makes its way here. |
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BobROE
Learned Scribe
Canada
106 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 16:42:54
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
The preview definately has me more interested, and looking forward to it arriving in the mail when it finally makes its way here.
Ya, I was going to wait until I heard what people here thought of it first. But it's starting to look like it's a good adventure. I'm still somewhat worried about the format. All the "go back to page X" at the end of the encounters has me worried. I thought the new format was suppose to cut down on page flipping. |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 17:51:24
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Hello-
I have this now. :)
I flipped through - read the intro - and then all of the sidebars - as most are just comments about this and that (I like that - insight) and I think it is quite viable.
I also see why it is not tied to a particular timeline point.
Overall - at first glance - not bad.
The section at the end about general area info is, of course, probably too short for most. I'm just glad its there at all!
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
575 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 18:00:06
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you've got it allready? Mail order?
Does it seem appropriately scaled for the levels advertised? I recall that SoG was a real meat grinder for 4th level adventurers. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 18:05:08
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Hello-
I work in a bookstore - and it came in yesterday.
I am not really a good judge of scaling - as I am still pretty new at the 3/3.5 rules.
It is supposed to take PCs from 4-6 or possibly 7th through the adventure. There did not seem to be 14*3 encounters - so most of them must be a bit tougher to mount up the XP.
I did notice that there was some 'story-style' Xp awards - for finding X, or somesuch, that were not directly related to combat - but the numbers I saw when skimming were not high (like 200XP).
I did think that some of the monsters may have been a bit tough - but - they are more near the end - presumably - after the PCs gain the levels and are 6/7th. Would not be as bad then. :)
Dhomal |
I am collecting the D&D Minis. I would be more than willing to trade with people. You can send me a PM here with your email listed - and I can send you my minis list. Thanks!
Successfully traded with Xysma! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 20:35:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
This year sucks for FR books and I'm not really interested in Expedition to Undermountain nor Grand History of the Realms (especially since it's free, if it's the same one here.)
I have often wondered why they won't publish more regional books in the "core" or popular areas. Western Heartlands? Nope. Cormyr? Nope. The Dalelands? Nope. Sword Coast? Nope. Western Heartlands? Nope. Only Waterdeep and the Silver Marches are areas where *I* would run a campaign. Shining South? Unapproachable East? Who decided to make these books, and why?
On the other hand, perhaps WoTC has wanted to show us more about more "vague" areas in the Realms? IMHO Serpent Kingdoms and Underdark were good choices and excellent "regional" accessories both! And let's not forget that we got Dragons of Faerūn and Power of Faerūn - neither are regional books, but deal with very important (from every DM's perspective) issues and lore about the Realms!
Still, despite my certain misgivings about this subject, I am really glad about these "super adventures". Razz, I do not see why you couldn't use these books to pick the "best parts" out of them and use them in your campaign (i.e. NPCs, maps, adventure ideas...) I have done so many times - in fact, I used a portion of Undermountain as the second level of the Haunted Halls (with minor modifications). Also, I would buy ANY sourcebook written by Steven, Eric or Ed!  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 20:47:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
Looking pretty good. Nice to see Esvele used, purely for the nostalgia of it. At least they spelt the name right this time!
*GRRRR*! I still haven't forgiven Esvele for tricking my character into participating in (and receiving the blame for) a Sharran assasination plot in New Olamn!  
Otherwise this module looks very promising... the only thing bothering me is that previous Realmslore has described the origin of the Vast Swamp being the plane of Minauros. Hopefully this adventure won't change that, since I have used the story of Orva and Minauros (and the gates leading to that plane!) in my own campaigns... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 21:15:35
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| I don't know that the origin of the Vast Swamp will come into play too much . . . it seems more like the trek to the Vast Sawmp with quickly shift into the Plane of Shadow and the shadow version of the place. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2007 : 23:33:24
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Yup, I'm a bit thick skulled from time to time . . . Despayr isn't a new idea, but was mentioned in Elminster's Ecologies and Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark. That'll teach me to make a comment about a dragon without consulting the consolidated list o' dragons.
Now, with that in mind, I'm even more interested in this book, because it shows some ties to older products and what they say about a given region. Kudos to the designers for using existing villains! |
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Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave
