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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 12:33:11
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Brand new from the product listings over at WotC: "A Grand History of the Realms".
quote:
The Grand History of the Realms chronicles the rich history of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, presenting a detailed timeline accompanied by essays from Elminster of Shadowdale and other Realmslore experts. Although not a game supplement, it serves as a handy reference guide for players and Dungeon Masters seeking information on specific historical events. In addition, the book features an exclusive Forgotten Realms short story by best-selling author R.A. Salvatore and new revelations for Realmslore aficionados.
BRIAN R. JAMES is a senior usability engineer in the software industry. In the evenings, he is an active member of the Forgotten Realms online community and an eager student of Realmslore. Brian lives in Montana with his high school sweetheart Toni and their four children.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/9780786947317
Not a RPG product, not a novel. What is it and who will buy it? Hum...
Bocklin
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Edited by - Bocklin on 02 Feb 2007 12:33:32
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 12:47:33
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Well as to what it is; from all I can see its an official and extended version of Brian R James fantastic history book.
As to who will buy it? Me! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 17:09:10
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| It's a RPG product.... not sure why you said it isn't. They showed it at Gencon 06 and many of us are looking forward to it. Brian did a great job on it and we have offered our congrat's to him before. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 02 Feb 2007 17:10:21 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 17:22:20
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I think the phrase "not a game supplement" is deceptive, here. To me, it is a game supplement. It may not have rules, PrCs, feats, and other such stuff, but it is a wonderful resource and can only help both DMs and players.
Who will buy it? I'll leave work on my lunch break to go get it. I won't wait for the end of the day. I quite want this, more than a lot of other 2007 releases. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 21:13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
It's a RPG product.... not sure why you said it isn't. They showed it at Gencon 06 and many of us are looking forward to it. Brian did a great job on it and we have offered our congrat's to him before. :)
I probably read too much in the "not a game supplement" bit I guess, as Wooly noticed.
I just have difficulties figuring what this product actually is... Could you enlighten me a bit?
Bocklin |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 21:30:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Bocklin
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
It's a RPG product.... not sure why you said it isn't. They showed it at Gencon 06 and many of us are looking forward to it. Brian did a great job on it and we have offered our congrat's to him before. :)
I probably read too much in the "not a game supplement" bit I guess, as Wooly noticed.
I just have difficulties figuring what this product actually is... Could you enlighten me a bit?
Bocklin
It is a supplement in that it offers much background material on the setting. Brian has worked on this thing for quite a long time, and it has undergone many revisions.
The WotC release will obviously have a lot more material in it, but you can get an idea of what to expect by perusing the existing pdf version (which is undoubtedly what put him on WotC's radar): A Grand History of the Realms. It is, quite simply, the most detailed and comprehensive Forgotten Realms timeline that we know of. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 22:18:04
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| The currently available Grand History is a great compilation of published references, but not such a good summary of Realms history, much of which isn't known in any detail -- an even history would omit parts of Brian's timeline and add new bits. So I wonder how the book will change and what its exact purpose is. And how much it will footnote sources: a Realms tradition dating back to Ed's gates article but sadly waned. |
Edited by - Faraer on 02 Feb 2007 22:18:48 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 22:48:03
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| The Elminster essays are what is making me long for this product...perhaps more than anything else. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 23:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The currently available Grand History is a great compilation of published references, but not such a good summary of Realms history, much of which isn't known in any detail -- an even history would omit parts of Brian's timeline and add new bits. So I wonder how the book will change and what its exact purpose is. And how much it will footnote sources: a Realms tradition dating back to Ed's gates article but sadly waned.
Indeed.
Considering also, that it is a product tailored for DMs as well, suggests that specific historical events that have just been hinted at on Brian's timeline may indeed be greatly expanded in this volume, with whatever current lore exists on such events.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 23:23:01
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| For instance, putting together my own unfinished Dales timeline, which is more detailed than Brian's but much more limited, pointed out a lot of uncertain areas, such the founding of half of the Dales. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 23:42:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
For instance, putting together my own unfinished Dales timeline, which is more detailed than Brian's but much more limited, pointed out a lot of uncertain areas, such the founding of half of the Dales.
I assume you will be making this available to scribes here once you're finished? I, for one, would certainly be interested in seeing such a work. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2007 : 23:43:32
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| Me too. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 00:01:11
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| I'm certainly looking forward to picking this up! The pdf version has been of great value to me in creating my current campaign. WotC: Consider my money spent! |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 00:44:41
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Hello again everyone. I’m very excited to see the official WotC announcement for the Grand History of the Realms. Again, I thank all my friends at Candlekeep.com for their support over the years. And a big thank you to Richard Baker at WotC, who got the ball rolling. Below are some thoughts on some questions I've read about the product.
When WotC says it’s "not a game supplement", I presume they imply the Grand History will not include game mechanics like prestige classes, spells, and the like. This book is solidly in the 'fluff' category.
Though the published Grand History will indeed contain the familiar timeline, the accompanying essays will afford Ed and others the opportunity greater flesh out pieces of Toril's history in greater detail. WotC is loosly marketing this more as a coffee table book than a reference guide.
This product focuses strictly on the history of the Forgotten Realms. I am unsure if sub-setting events from Kara-Tur, Maztica, etc.. will make it into the final product, though I did include them in the manuscript.
Yes, I suspect that WotC will request the online edition of the Grand History be removed any day now, so download it while you still can!  |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 01:57:44
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| Thanks for the info, it's good to know. I'm actually getting excited about this product. And I should probably check to see if I have the most recent version downloaded currently. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 03:06:47
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Hi Brian, with 160 pages, will the book have mostly new material?
I really hope this product does well. Would love to see books that detail the geography, architecture, costumes, etc. |
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Bocklin
Learned Scribe
Germany
151 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 08:05:54
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Okay, I understand that a bit better now.
I am actually familiar with Brian's PDF file and use it so often that I feel embarassed at not having made the mental-link myself directly. :)
I am just not so sure about the "coffee table book" approach, but I might let myself convinced. I know that when I hold a nice, good-looking, FR book it's hard for me to resist...
Bocklin |
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Brenigin
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
117 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 09:49:39
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| Perhaps WotC is taking a leaf out of the Games Workshop book (no pun intended) and experimenting with rules-free fluff books? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 17:41:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenigin
Perhaps WotC is taking a leaf out of the Games Workshop book (no pun intended) and experimenting with rules-free fluff books?
They've done it before, at least as TSR... The artbooks had no rules, and though they did slide a few things into the Volo's Guide series, that was all about lore... The PG set of Player's Guides were more lore-based "welcome to this setting!" books than anything else, and little in the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog had any rules-based value, save for separating players from their gold.
Oh, and there were also the TM series of Trail Maps... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Feb 2007 17:42:44 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2007 : 22:14:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Brenigin
Perhaps WotC is taking a leaf out of the Games Workshop book (no pun intended) and experimenting with rules-free fluff books?
They've done it before, at least as TSR... The artbooks had no rules, and though they did slide a few things into the Volo's Guide series, that was all about lore... The PG set of Player's Guides were more lore-based "welcome to this setting!" books than anything else, and little in the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog had any rules-based value, save for separating players from their gold.
Oh, and there were also the TM series of Trail Maps...
Aye, maybe this is their way of testing the water again and seeing if there is a market out there currently. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Prince Forge of Avalon
Learned Scribe
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 06:44:59
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I just wanted to say to Brian here Im sorry for not remembering it was you who did The Grand History of the Realms and congrats on getting published!! You most certainly deserve it!!
PFoA |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 13:33:37
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Ha! Great to read this - I did not look into this thread earlier, cause I thought it was one of those discussions about 'what happend when' - a subject I have mostly little to contribute to due to my lack of knowledge on those matters. But now after reading this, I am stunned. Great work there Brian! I always considered your 'unofficial' version to be worth publishing and I even find it better to see that a fan's dedicated work is finally appreciated also from the game's publishers.
Good luck with this product and count on me for increasing the sales statistics.
Now, I wonder if we will see this product in shelves with the same 'opening words' by Alaundo as can be read in the pdf version.  |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2007 : 23:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think the phrase "not a game supplement" is deceptive, here. To me, it is a game supplement. It may not have rules, PrCs, feats, and other such stuff, but it is a wonderful resource and can only help both DMs and players.
Who will buy it? I'll leave work on my lunch break to go get it. I won't wait for the end of the day. I quite want this, more than a lot of other 2007 releases.
Me too! I have printed the pdf-file, but I WILL buy this book for three reasons:
1) To support Brian's unselfish work all these years (and also to support "fluffy-only" tomes :)
2) For its great content - I have referenced the timelines during every gaming session as the DM
3) For its handy format - a book is always better than a big pile of prints.
GREAT work, Brian!   |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 00:54:21
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Brian
Are you going to include the events of Baldurs Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal in the published version of Grand History of the Realms? I noticed you only included events from the BG1 in GHotR.pdf |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 01:34:13
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I have yet to read the novelization of those events, so I didn't include them in the .pdf nor the manuscript I turned over for the print edition. I do own both novels, however, so there still may be time to get these event included. Was there some specific event in the novels you'd like to draw my attention to Dargoth?
-Brian.
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Brian
Are you going to include the events of Baldurs Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal in the published version of Grand History of the Realms? I noticed you only included events from the BG1 in GHotR.pdf
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 01:50:47
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There are infact 3 novels
Baldurs gate
Baldurs gate 2
BG2: Throne of Bhaal
The first 2 are by Phil Athans and Throne of Bhaals by Drew "Kapshwyr"
One of the major issues is Saradush
In Throne of Bhaal (The expansion to BG2, there is a Throne of Bhaal novel but I never bought it) the city of Saradush is razed to the ground by a Fire Giant Bhaalspawn and his army (This is unavoidable event in the game has nothing to do with any choice the player makes)
However theres no mention of this in the FRC and Saradush has the same population it had in 2ed which has always led me to believe that the the BG games arent Canon (several major events in the games and novels arent reflected in the Timeline) if the games are Canon then Sarasush today (circa 1374) should be in similar state as Zhentil Keep.
There also isnt any mention of the damage Irenicus did to the Elven city in the Forest of Tethyr (this is a BG2 event)
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 09 Feb 2007 01:53:23 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 02:00:00
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Well, the novels are canon -- so says WotC and the authors of the novels.
And, of course, the games cannot be considered FR canon, as the author, Drew Karpyshyn says, "because of their multiple endings, the BG games can't be considered 'official' in the FR world."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 02:08:13
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| Are we still having this argument? Gees, why do you keep insisting on bringing this up, Dargoth? The games are not canon while the novels are. We've told you this for at least two years now. Especially since the novels have been referenced in more then one 3/3.5e sourcebook. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 02:11:22
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Well, the novels are canon -- so says WotC and the authors of the novels.
And, of course, the games cannot be considered FR canon, as the author, Drew Karpyshyn says, "because of their multiple endings, the BG games can't be considered 'official' in the FR world."
These are not multiple ending events they happan regardless as to what the player does
Also Im pretty sure I saw some material or the deaths of some of the rulers of Baldurs Gate city in a source book (Power of Faerun?) and in the game the rulers dont have to die if the players quick so the FR designers have already made a descision on an variable event in the games so I dont see that as a hinderence |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2007 : 03:33:06
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I'm going with what we've been told by the game designers... The events of the Bhaalspawn saga as depicted in the novels are canon. We have an entire sourcebook dedicted to the novels -- Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II -- as well as the reference in PoF, along with the characters from the novels being stat’d up in DRAGON #262 for 2e and the Bhaalspawn template for 3e in DRAGON #288. And LEoF.
WotC lists them as taking place in 1368 DR and 1369 DR. Jim Butler has also told us the events are canon in 2000 on the FR Mailing List. And finally, Rich Baker, Ed Greenwood and Ed Bonny have all confirmed this as well. For me, that grounds the novels, and only the novels, into the firm bedrock of Realms canon.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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A Grand History of the Realms (product)
