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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 23:37:57
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Who are the best military commanders of today's Faerun?
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 23:43:47
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This is way to hard to answer because Faerun is such a large place.
However, I'm going to say that some of them are Mystra's Chosen, which Ed has discussed and so thats why I say some of her Chosen. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 23:49:36
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| Hmm. Scyllua Darkhope is credited with reversing the Zhentarim's fortunes in a very short space of time, and is meant to be quite an excellent commander. I think she would rank well in any list. |
Edited by - Uzzy on 06 Feb 2007 23:49:56 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 23:53:52
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I think the orcish general who went to the Crusade with Azoun is one of the best!
...well, at least one of the coolest anyways |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2007 : 23:54:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
This is way to hard to answer because Faerun is such a large place.
However, I'm going to say that some of them are Mystra's Chosen, which Ed has discussed and so thats why I say some of her Chosen.
I agree. And military proficiency can usually be divided into several areas -- like tactics and planning, offensive strategies, defensive strategies, deployment, command, etc.
And I'd have to say Mystra's Chosen, for the most part, rank somewhere among them as well. Ed's comments, and the few tidbits you can pick up from sourcebooks (like Seven Sisters) and from novels, illustrate the sound tactical mind most of Mystra's Chosen possess -- like the Simbul for example.
High-up members of Helm's, Tempus's, and the Red Knight's clergy, I'd say, would also be included.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 06 Feb 2007 23:55:13 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 00:07:36
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| Hehehe, the Simbul reminds me at times, like the kill first ask later type of gal... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 00:22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I agree. And military proficiency can usually be divided into several areas -- like tactics and planning, offensive strategies, defensive strategies, deployment, command, etc.
'Tis a very good point. I myself am quite good at tactics. But I draw vacuum at strategy... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 03:12:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I think the orcish general who went to the Crusade with Azoun is one of the best!
...well, at least one of the coolest anyways
Wow, an orcish general on Azoun's side? I really have to check out that book. |
Edited by - RodOdom on 07 Feb 2007 03:13:15 |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 03:28:06
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| I thought that Severil Miritar (sp? sorry) did a good job in the Last Mythal series... rats! I just remembered a very important fact about him! Oh well. Perhaps then a certain person he welcomed back to the realms... |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 04:00:53
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| What are the names of Dove's children. I read that her son or son's are supposed to be very good tacticians. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 05:20:24
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| Mr. Greenwood has indicated that Chosen are insane because of long life, as such it strikes me that none of the living or undead Chosen would be the best tactical or startigical milatary leaders "living" at current time. This does not mean they can win a battle drawing on knowledge, but long range goals are a matter that might be beyound an insane character ability. Im my opinion they should be removed from any consideration for the "best military commanders of today's Faeru". |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 06:06:30
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I don't completely agree with that interpretation.
Ed also tells us that Mystra's Chosen are capable of appreciating and understanding how important their roles are in both the maintaining of magic and the Weave, and in the greater order of things throughout the Realms. They are quite capable of carrying out any task Mystra orders -- even if they don't completely understand all the divine subtleties of such plans. Add to the fact that these plans may not necessarily lead to immediate results, or may in fact take years or even centuries to nurture, and we begin to see that Mystra's Chosen are in fact capable of long-term strategic planning and tactical focus.
The abilities involved in organising the agents of good against those forces of evil, are traits we regularly see Mystra's Chosen employ when the Realms are threatened. Consider also, Khelben's knack for planning things in the long run, and the fact that he was the type of guy who always had several contingencies in place for just about everything.
Again, this suggests that some of Mystra's Chosen do in fact possess the necessary levels of lucidity and mental focus required for tactical planning and strategies, even over the long term.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 07 Feb 2007 06:11:06 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 07:36:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Mr. Greenwood has indicated that Chosen are insane because of long life, as such it strikes me that none of the living or undead Chosen would be the best tactical or startigical milatary leaders "living" at current time. This does not mean they can win a battle drawing on knowledge, but long range goals are a matter that might be beyound an insane character ability. Im my opinion they should be removed from any consideration for the "best military commanders of today's Faeru".
Well, I am not sure I agree with you as there are more than enough "great" generals and commanders through history that has shown signs of insanity and madness in different forms.
There is also the question of which abilities one wants to focus on when talking about "best". Alustriel would be a great tactician, but is she among the best strategists? Alusair is inspiring, but is she a great tactician ? Brandon Battlemaster is said to be a legendary tactician, but he usually leads small forces. Gayrlana, the lady Bloodsword, having earned his respect, must have abilities, but these would be specialised around the Mindulgulphs. Zaranda Star of Tethyr and some of the mercenary commanders could also be candidates to the title "best commander". |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 08:29:46
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I think the orcish general who went to the Crusade with Azoun is one of the best!
...well, at least one of the coolest anyways
Wow, an orcish general on Azoun's side? I really have to check out that book.
And well you should, the trilogy is great |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Aureus
Learned Scribe
Luxembourg
125 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 10:29:47
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and if we include those who died recently?
SPOILER WARNING
I would suggest the dwarf General Dagna and his son Dagnabit(sp?), but I don't remember the son's rank |
That is not the weirdest thing that happened to me |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 13:17:53
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| In terms of sheer experience and accomplishment, perhaps there are a few candidates in the Border Kingdoms. |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
573 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 14:03:03
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| I think that Emerus Warcrown is a shoe-in. He won his citadel by strength of arms with speed and timing two things that dwarves are not typically known for. When determining who is the best, you must look at relative strengths and weaknesses. Warcrown certainly embodies the traditional dwarven military virtues, but managed to combine it with speed and timing which are typically dwarven weaknesses. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Lawfire
Acolyte
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 15:03:06
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| Are there any known, high-ranking members of the Red Knights clergy? I'm sure they would be good tacticians, no? |
Faerun Roleplaying
http://www.faerunrp.com/forum/index.php |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 18:20:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Again, this suggests that some of Mystra's Chosen do in fact possess the necessary levels of lucidity and mental focus required for tactical planning and strategies, even over the long term.
I agree...which is why I don't understand how the Chosen can be "insane" in the clinical sense of the term (if not in the colloquial sense). Obviously, living for centuries must be a rather horrible experience for most people, so I can understand how that would drive someone insane, but what I don't get is how you can be lucid and capable, and be "insane" at the same time. Not that I wanted to drag this thread off-topic, but I've always wondered what degree of insanity is being talked about in the case of the Chosen.
Seiveril, a great military commander? I would argue against that on more than one account. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Feb 2007 18:22:45 |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
573 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 18:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Again, this suggests that some of Mystra's Chosen do in fact possess the necessary levels of lucidity and mental focus required for tactical planning and strategies, even over the long term.
I agree...which is why I don't understand how the Chosen can be "insane" in the clinical sense of the term (if not in the colloquial sense). Obviously, living for centuries must be a rather horrible experience for most people, so I can understand how that would drive someone insane, but what I don't get is how you can be lucid and capable, and be "insane" at the same time. Not that I wanted to drag this thread off-topic, but I've always wondered what degree of insanity is being talked about in the case of the Chosen.
Seiveril, a great military commander? I would argue against that on more than one account.
I would as well. Seiveril appears to have been a great motivator and initiator of that military action. He seems, however to have relied heavily upon the combat sense of Fflar and on his regimental commanders. Nothing about his campaign struck me as particularly brilliant.
This may be because he was fighting against a non-traditional foe (the fey'ri), but even his defense of the Shadowdale seemed lack luster. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 18:52:38
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I would as well. Seiveril appears to have been a great motivator and initiator of that military action. He seems, however to have relied heavily upon the combat sense of Fflar and on his regimental commanders. Nothing about his campaign struck me as particularly brilliant.
My thoughts, exactly--Seiveril spent most of the campaign relying on the advice of others (especially Fflar). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 19:14:16
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| Great Milatary Commanders do not always win. Unless you use sucess solely as a measure of "Great". The best use of tactics and startigy is what should be the neasure of a great leader. The williness to consider advive of others clearly should be consider as a posible great atibute. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 19:40:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I would as well. Seiveril appears to have been a great motivator and initiator of that military action. He seems, however to have relied heavily upon the combat sense of Fflar and on his regimental commanders. Nothing about his campaign struck me as particularly brilliant.
My thoughts, exactly--Seiveril spent most of the campaign relying on the advice of others (especially Fflar).
Has been at least a dozen books ago since I read Last Mythal, and from what I remember there was nothing at all that made Seiveril a great military commander... he was more the deluded visionary so to speak, especially if you consider how, well, stupidly he ran into that last trap...anyone with at least a tad of tactical thinking would've waited until the area is secure and then proclaim victory... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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WalkerNinja
Senior Scribe
USA
573 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 19:51:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Great Milatary Commanders do not always win. Unless you use sucess solely as a measure of "Great". The best use of tactics and startigy is what should be the neasure of a great leader. The williness to consider advive of others clearly should be consider as a posible great atibute.
Let us then compromise and say that Seiveril was a great military administrator. As a commander he was clearly a borrower and a beggar having no strength of his own, but able to appreciate the strength of others. |
*** A Forgotten Realms Addict since 1990 ***
Treasures of the Past, a Second Edition Play-by-Post game for and by Candlekeep Sages--http://www.rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=52011 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 22:00:09
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quote:
Originally posted by WalkerNinja
I think that Emerus Warcrown is a shoe-in. He won his citadel by strength of arms with speed and timing two things that dwarves are not typically known for. When determining who is the best, you must look at relative strengths and weaknesses. Warcrown certainly embodies the traditional dwarven military virtues, but managed to combine it with speed and timing which are typically dwarven weaknesses.
Speed and timing are dwarf weaknesses? O_O
Sir, you must not have met the same dwarves I met! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 22:04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
My thoughts, exactly--Seiveril spent most of the campaign relying on the advice of others (especially Fflar).
Relying on the advice of capable subordinates (i.e. surrounding yourself with the best) and inspiring your troops into action are in my opinion great leadership skills and show an ability to command effectively. |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 22:33:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
My thoughts, exactly--Seiveril spent most of the campaign relying on the advice of others (especially Fflar).
Relying on the advice of capable subordinates (i.e. surrounding yourself with the best) and inspiring your troops into action are in my opinion great leadership skills and show an ability to command effectively.
I agree. It's not dissimilar to politics, in which great leaders are not necessarily the main man or woman, but do a great job in bringing the best out of others and keeping those that surround them in check.
It's a very broad question. In the above sense, I'd say Seiveril did a great job. He was inspiring and gave hope as well. Equally, his skill as a military strategist and tactician left a lot to be desired, in my opinion, but he countered this weakness by relying on Fflar, who is good at those things. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2007 : 23:20:16
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| Purple Dragon Knight put into words what I left unsaid. Any special military unit applies certain tactics for certain circumstances. The leader of these units always has subordinates who have been chosen for their ability to take note of variables which may influence how a tactic may play out. No one person can forsee all ends, so the more minds at work to solve a problem, the better. I think Seiveril was a succesful military commander, but he also made a mistake. His fault wasn't in that he relied upon others to help him, it was that he himself ran into the fray as opposed to letting others do it for him. |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 03:49:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawfire
Are there any known, high-ranking members of the Red Knights clergy? I'm sure they would be good tacticians, no?
There's a Lady Kaitlin Tindall Bloodhawk, detailed in the Champions of Valor sourcebook. She was the Red Knight's avatar during the Godswars. |
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Lawfire
Acolyte
USA
38 Posts |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2007 : 22:45:47
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| My vote would be on Duke Eltan and Scar from the 'Flaming Fist'. As leaders of the biggest and most elite mercenary company in Faerūn, they MUST be masterful tacticians and commanders... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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The best living military commanders
