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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Aug 2011 : 21:50:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
True... But I prefer my Bane is really Xvim in disguise theory. 
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 06:45:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Never cared for Cyric, at all. Too much of a boring one-note.
Indeed. His name alone irks me.
My vote goes to Myrkul. Whatever happened to his plans? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Synthalus
Learned Scribe
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2011 : 18:54:06
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quote:
originally posted by Slayer
I sort of like the way things turned out, Cyric is the de-facto bad-guy and was set-aside via his imprisonment by the triad. But it's clear he still has his hand's on the strings as he unleashed Kezef on the planes and can still manifest his avatar outside of Pandemonium. Myrkul was a good "evil god" but as the god of death, wasn't doing his job, he just threw the faithful souls to the fiends... I'm sure the gods have many more petitioners to their realms with Myrkul gone... Cyric was the big opportunist though, he was just all about absorbing other gods and hence went on a killing-spree, and understandably so.
The way I see it Cyric had the initiative that the other evil gods lacked, who was REALLY insane in the ToT? Cyric murdering other deities to absorb their portfolios or Mystra bum-rushing Helm at the stairway to heaven knowing damn well she wasn't going to survive the encounter as a mortal...? Cyric's madness was merely imposed upon him by other greater powers, "madgod" was just a nickname, Cyric knows he's smarter then even most of the ancient deities, but his elevation to a greater deity during the ToT probably went to his head. The gods of illusion did what they could, but in the end were assimilated by Cyric's clearly superior deception and power. I think Cyric earned his stolen portfolios fair and square, even if his tactics are considered "repulsive" by even his evil peers. He knew he was more powerful as a mortal then the removed gods' mortal avatars and that it was perfect timing to become a god himself.
Slayer i believe put it best. What is wrong with cyric with cyric is that he beat all the other gods to the punch line. By usurping the power of and killing off the other gods he was doing his job as the god of assasins. being a former human gave him something that the preexisting gods did not posses, that being a sense of humanity, what it truly is to be born and grow up and live life as a human. from this sense of humanity it is easy to reason that he would live as a god much the same way he did as a human. Cyric is a prick but thats why we like him. he's a train wreck, you cant take your eyes off him even if you try. its much the same reason people listen to howard stern they hate him but they want to hear what he will say next. cyric is intrigueing in so many ways if not a little predictable some times i will admit but there are moments when you have no idea what he will do next and he is like an ultimate evil. the satan of the FR if you will. |
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
— H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2011 : 04:34:32
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| Cyric isn't the only deity that used to be human. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul used to be humans, and so did Mystra 1.0 and 2.0. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2011 : 06:34:20
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Of all the deities who ascended to godhood, it's Cyric that I find the least interesting. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2011 : 07:27:58
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| I went with Bhaal. Always liked him... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2011 : 16:05:46
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Leira! Bane! Bhaal! Myrkul! Iyachtu Xvim! Why won't you let me vote for five?
Anyway. I'm gradually writing up various bits of my alternate version of the Realms, which forks from an Old Gray Box core. This takes the statement that FR doesn't have pantheons in that set seriously. The result is a need to rework Mulhorand and Unther, which now don't have their local pantheons to define them. The approach I'm taking? Mulhorand's nobility is composed of aasimar Scions of Siamorphe, while the tyrant Gilgeam is directly and personally replaced by Iyachtu Xvim as God-King Incarnate of Unther. The constant theologically-inspired strife between the two has forced them to concentrate all their attention each other across the River of Swords, with the result that both once-vast empires have been reduced to their cores.
Bane is, it is believed, quite disappointed in the failures of his son to maintain and expand the Untheric Empire. One expression of this is that the clergy of the Black Lord's Cloak in Mourktar was given orders to exclude Xvim (still nominal overlord of Threskel) from the daily prayers list. That was expected to goad his son into re-cementing control over Threskel and ordering prayers resumed, but Xvim hasn't been able to manage to do so. Tiamat's clergy have subsequently stepped up their efforts to usurp Xvim's control of Unther. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2012 : 12:56:03
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I feel that Kelemvor is doing a much better job as the God of Death than Myrkul so he gets my vote.
I Like the concept of a completely neutral God of death. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2012 : 13:13:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I feel that Kelemvor is doing a much better job as the God of Death than Myrkul so he gets my vote.
I Like the concept of a completely neutral God of death.
Agreed. Kelemvor inspires me much more than ''mwahaha death is scary'' Myrkul. One thing I think he should do, however, is destroying the Wall of the Faithless. It sucks. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 11 Jun 2012 13:14:24 |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2012 : 19:24:44
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Leira never died; she just made you all think she did.
I voted for Leira. No reason other than I like her portfolio. Heck, bring em all back. I'm polytheistic like that. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 05:40:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I feel that Kelemvor is doing a much better job as the God of Death than Myrkul so he gets my vote.
I Like the concept of a completely neutral God of death.
The problem with neutral characters is that they tend to be passive to the point of being boring. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 06:40:10
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While I did run a game in which all the events leading into and beyond 3.0 Faerun happened...my "new Realms" is not going to experience the Time of Troubles.
I voted for Bane because he is a good Tyrant god...I liked that he came back...whether it was Xvim pretending or actually Bane I didn't care...he was back.
@Dennis: I LOVE neutral characters! Lawful Neutral is fun to play...but my favorite is Chaotic Neutral.
Many play CN as "crazy" or anarchists...I play them just as you would play a Chaotic Good character...minus the good.
Independent minded, prone to tell the law to screw off because to a CN character, self is more important than the masses. Also, they don't mind working with various sorts...CN makes a good criminal or truly freedom oriented individual. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 12:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
I feel that Kelemvor is doing a much better job as the God of Death than Myrkul so he gets my vote.
I Like the concept of a completely neutral God of death.
The problem with neutral characters is that they tend to be passive to the point of being boring.
Generally i would agree with you, but in this case we must ask ourselves do you really want an active god of death? Becuase the best way to for him to be active would be to further the cause of death, by well killing people and Kelemvor was certainly not evil enough for that. Anyway death as a concept is neither good nor evil it is just is and so a neutral god is more appropriate. |
Edited by - Thauranil on 12 Jun 2012 12:11:15 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 12:13:51
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| Hey, i managed to make senior scribe with that last post. Awesome. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 12:19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Hey, i managed to make senior scribe with that last post. Awesome.
Congratulations Thauranil!
I agree with you on the god of death being neutral as a good thing...but I think the only thing worse than an evil god of death would be a GOOD god of death.
A GOOD God of death would never allow their Paladins and Clerics to go into ancient tombs and rob them blind after all! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 12:45:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil
Hey, i managed to make senior scribe with that last post. Awesome.
Congratulations Thauranil!
I agree with you on the god of death being neutral as a good thing...but I think the only thing worse than an evil god of death would be a GOOD god of death.
A GOOD God of death would never allow their Paladins and Clerics to go into ancient tombs and rob them blind after all!
Many thanks.
Now i just need.... 648 posts more to make Great Reader.
Kelemvor himself proved that a Good God of death causes more problems than he solves but at least he wised up fast. Anyway without tomb robbing all heros would soon go bankrupt. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2012 : 14:13:38
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One thing I liked about Greyhawk were the "Hero-Deities" like Kelanen and company.
I think the Realms could use some more of those and fewer chosen. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 07:02:20
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| I like having Kelemvor, because he's fair but firm, and I think the god of death should be neutral. I voted for Leira, since you could vote for one, but I like Kelemvor |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 17:15:32
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| I want them all 3: |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 17:27:50
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^^^ Agreed ^^^
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
One thing I liked about Greyhawk were the "Hero-Deities" like Kelanen and company.
I think the Realms could use some more of those and fewer chosen.
Theoretically, there should be no difference between the two mechanically. Both should be demi-power/exarch status. Its more of an RP thing - Chosen don't ask to be worshiped.
On the other hand, do any hero-deities actually ask to be worshiped? Saints fall into this same tier, but I doubt any of them go around screaming "worship me!"
I think of Exarchs as 'salesmen' - they represent their deity, and promote the growth of its church, and they receive a 'commission' of sorts in the form of power. Whether you pray to the god itself or just to its representative, the power still goes to the deity. The deity then gives 'payment' to its agents in the form of boons and spells. Mystra's Chosen (THE Chosen) don't require this sort of setup, since she gives them powers and abilities regardless of how they serve her. The sheer act of being a Chosen helps promote Mystra's cause, and thats all she require of them. (Actually, I am over simplifying, but you get the idea.)
So, since The Chosen don't need to show any 'hard numbers' to their 'boss', they do not need the artificial layer of folks venerating them (which is how other deities keep track of who is providing what). This is how I see things working; YMMV. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2012 17:29:52 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2012 : 21:40:20
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Hero-Deities? Meh. The Realms have them already----the Chosen. Some of the lesser deities' exploits pale in comparison to many of the Chosen, specially Mystra's. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 00:10:06
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| I voted Kelemvor. I like how quickly he "got it". Though I also can appreciate Bane. Cyric reminds me too much of some bad players we have had at our table that have gotten the boot for trying to ruin things. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2012 : 22:29:08
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| Crazy gods make interesting villains! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 01:19:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I'd have to vote for Leira, as I'm not overly fond of Cyric- too nuts- and I never cared much about most of the others.
I think Cyric was, for a lot of long-time Realms folk, a novelty deity that some of us were keen on because he was new and interesting -- I know, because I was definitely one of this lot of folk. But then that novelty soon wore off, and we then tended to see him as a poor substitute for the established deities he later replaced. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 05:41:55
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Am I the only one that enjoys Cyric? He's always been similar in my Realms games as The Joker is to Gotham's residents in DC Comics. He's a lot of fun to play with. I just feel as if most people are too intimidated by him to make great use of.
Especially since we lack a god of chaos in the Realms...and a god of anarchy...and a god of madness. Granted Cyric has none of those portfolios for some strange reason but he sure fits the scope of them all. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 06:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I'd have to vote for Leira, as I'm not overly fond of Cyric- too nuts- and I never cared much about most of the others.
I think Cyric was, for a lot of long-time Realms folk, a novelty deity that some of us were keen on because he was new and interesting -- I know, because I was definitely one of this lot of folk. But then that novelty soon wore off, and we then tended to see him as a poor substitute for the established deities he later replaced.
For me, the novelty wore off as soon as we saw more of him.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 06:06:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Am I the only one that enjoys Cyric? He's always been similar in my Realms games as The Joker is to Gotham's residents in DC Comics. He's a lot of fun to play with. I just feel as if most people are too intimidated by him to make great use of.
I can see that. But the Joker also has a degree of deadly comedic subtlety underling a lot of his more perverse capers... and that's something that Cyric often lacks. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2012 : 06:25:05
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| Cyric has existed in print my whole life, I believe. He just seems part of the realms. |
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The new deities
