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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
909 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2011 :  21:50:22  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
True... But I prefer my Bane is really Xvim in disguise theory.



This.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2011 :  06:45:27  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Never cared for Cyric, at all. Too much of a boring one-note.




Indeed. His name alone irks me.

My vote goes to Myrkul. Whatever happened to his plans?

Every beginning has an end.
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Synthalus
Learned Scribe

USA
170 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2011 :  18:54:06  Show Profile  Visit Synthalus's Homepage Send Synthalus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
originally posted by Slayer

I sort of like the way things turned out, Cyric is the de-facto bad-guy and was set-aside via his imprisonment by the triad. But it's clear he still has his hand's on the strings as he unleashed Kezef on the planes and can still manifest his avatar outside of Pandemonium. Myrkul was a good "evil god" but as the god of death, wasn't doing his job, he just threw the faithful souls to the fiends... I'm sure the gods have many more petitioners to their realms with Myrkul gone... Cyric was the big opportunist though, he was just all about absorbing other gods and hence went on a killing-spree, and understandably so.

The way I see it Cyric had the initiative that the other evil gods lacked, who was REALLY insane in the ToT? Cyric murdering other deities to absorb their portfolios or Mystra bum-rushing Helm at the stairway to heaven knowing damn well she wasn't going to survive the encounter as a mortal...? Cyric's madness was merely imposed upon him by other greater powers, "madgod" was just a nickname, Cyric knows he's smarter then even most of the ancient deities, but his elevation to a greater deity during the ToT probably went to his head. The gods of illusion did what they could, but in the end were assimilated by Cyric's clearly superior deception and power. I think Cyric earned his stolen portfolios fair and square, even if his tactics are considered "repulsive" by even his evil peers. He knew he was more powerful as a mortal then the removed gods' mortal avatars and that it was perfect timing to become a god himself.




Slayer i believe put it best. What is wrong with cyric with cyric is that he beat all the other gods to the punch line. By usurping the power of and killing off the other gods he was doing his job as the god of assasins. being a former human gave him something that the preexisting gods did not posses, that being a sense of humanity, what it truly is to be born and grow up and live life as a human. from this sense of humanity it is easy to reason that he would live as a god much the same way he did as a human. Cyric is a prick but thats why we like him. he's a train wreck, you cant take your eyes off him even if you try. its much the same reason people listen to howard stern they hate him but they want to hear what he will say next. cyric is intrigueing in so many ways if not a little predictable some times i will admit but there are moments when you have no idea what he will do next and he is like an ultimate evil. the satan of the FR if you will.

"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30338 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2011 :  04:34:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cyric isn't the only deity that used to be human. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul used to be humans, and so did Mystra 1.0 and 2.0.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2011 :  05:06:12  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indeed. And Ed's hinted at possible human-origins for a few other deities in the past, during previous replies here at Candlekeep.

No specifics, though.

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2011 :  06:34:20  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Of all the deities who ascended to godhood, it's Cyric that I find the least interesting.

Every beginning has an end.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2907 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2011 :  07:27:58  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I went with Bhaal. Always liked him...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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see
Learned Scribe

190 Posts

Posted - 21 Aug 2011 :  16:05:46  Show Profile Send see a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Leira! Bane! Bhaal! Myrkul! Iyachtu Xvim! Why won't you let me vote for five?

Anyway. I'm gradually writing up various bits of my alternate version of the Realms, which forks from an Old Gray Box core. This takes the statement that FR doesn't have pantheons in that set seriously. The result is a need to rework Mulhorand and Unther, which now don't have their local pantheons to define them. The approach I'm taking? Mulhorand's nobility is composed of aasimar Scions of Siamorphe, while the tyrant Gilgeam is directly and personally replaced by Iyachtu Xvim as God-King Incarnate of Unther. The constant theologically-inspired strife between the two has forced them to concentrate all their attention each other across the River of Swords, with the result that both once-vast empires have been reduced to their cores.

Bane is, it is believed, quite disappointed in the failures of his son to maintain and expand the Untheric Empire. One expression of this is that the clergy of the Black Lord's Cloak in Mourktar was given orders to exclude Xvim (still nominal overlord of Threskel) from the daily prayers list. That was expected to goad his son into re-cementing control over Threskel and ordering prayers resumed, but Xvim hasn't been able to manage to do so. Tiamat's clergy have subsequently stepped up their efforts to usurp Xvim's control of Unther.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2012 :  12:56:03  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I feel that Kelemvor is doing a much better job as the God of Death than Myrkul so he gets my vote.
I Like the concept of a completely neutral God of death.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2729 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2012 :  13:13:10  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I feel that Kelemvor is doing a much better job as the God of Death than Myrkul so he gets my vote.
I Like the concept of a completely neutral God of death.



Agreed. Kelemvor inspires me much more than ''mwahaha death is scary'' Myrkul. One thing I think he should do, however, is destroying the Wall of the Faithless. It sucks.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 11 Jun 2012 13:14:24
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Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
253 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2012 :  19:24:44  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Leira never died; she just made you all think she did.

I voted for Leira. No reason other than I like her portfolio. Heck, bring em all back. I'm polytheistic like that.

"We're not out of here in 10 minutes, we won't need no rockets to fly through space." -Parker, Alien.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2012 :  05:40:30  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I feel that Kelemvor is doing a much better job as the God of Death than Myrkul so he gets my vote.
I Like the concept of a completely neutral God of death.


The problem with neutral characters is that they tend to be passive to the point of being boring.

Every beginning has an end.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2012 :  06:40:10  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I did run a game in which all the events leading into and beyond 3.0 Faerun happened...my "new Realms" is not going to experience the Time of Troubles.

I voted for Bane because he is a good Tyrant god...I liked that he came back...whether it was Xvim pretending or actually Bane I didn't care...he was back.

@Dennis: I LOVE neutral characters! Lawful Neutral is fun to play...but my favorite is Chaotic Neutral.

Many play CN as "crazy" or anarchists...I play them just as you would play a Chaotic Good character...minus the good.

Independent minded, prone to tell the law to screw off because to a CN character, self is more important than the masses. Also, they don't mind working with various sorts...CN makes a good criminal or truly freedom oriented individual.

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2012 :  12:09:06  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

I feel that Kelemvor is doing a much better job as the God of Death than Myrkul so he gets my vote.
I Like the concept of a completely neutral God of death.


The problem with neutral characters is that they tend to be passive to the point of being boring.


Generally i would agree with you, but in this case we must ask ourselves do you really want an active god of death? Becuase the best way to for him to be active would be to further the cause of death, by well killing people and Kelemvor was certainly not evil enough for that. Anyway death as a concept is neither good nor evil it is just is and so a neutral god is more appropriate.

Edited by - Thauranil on 12 Jun 2012 12:11:15
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2012 :  12:13:51  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, i managed to make senior scribe with that last post. Awesome.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2012 :  12:19:40  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Hey, i managed to make senior scribe with that last post. Awesome.



Congratulations Thauranil!

I agree with you on the god of death being neutral as a good thing...but I think the only thing worse than an evil god of death would be a GOOD god of death.

A GOOD God of death would never allow their Paladins and Clerics to go into ancient tombs and rob them blind after all!

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2012 :  12:45:40  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Hey, i managed to make senior scribe with that last post. Awesome.



Congratulations Thauranil!

I agree with you on the god of death being neutral as a good thing...but I think the only thing worse than an evil god of death would be a GOOD god of death.


A GOOD God of death would never allow their Paladins and Clerics to go into ancient tombs and rob them blind after all!



Many thanks.
Now i just need.... 648 posts more to make Great Reader.

Kelemvor himself proved that a Good God of death causes more problems than he solves but at least he wised up fast. Anyway without tomb robbing all heros would soon go bankrupt.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 12 Jun 2012 :  14:13:38  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing I liked about Greyhawk were the "Hero-Deities" like Kelanen and company.

I think the Realms could use some more of those and fewer chosen.

Visit my Blog Page to find things for YOUR Forgotten Realms!
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2052 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2012 :  07:02:20  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like having Kelemvor, because he's fair but firm, and I think the god of death should be neutral. I voted for Leira, since you could vote for one, but I like Kelemvor

Sweet water and light laughter
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2012 :  17:15:32  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I want them all 3:
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2012 :  17:27:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
^^^ Agreed ^^^
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

One thing I liked about Greyhawk were the "Hero-Deities" like Kelanen and company.

I think the Realms could use some more of those and fewer chosen.

Theoretically, there should be no difference between the two mechanically. Both should be demi-power/exarch status. Its more of an RP thing - Chosen don't ask to be worshiped.

On the other hand, do any hero-deities actually ask to be worshiped? Saints fall into this same tier, but I doubt any of them go around screaming "worship me!"

I think of Exarchs as 'salesmen' - they represent their deity, and promote the growth of its church, and they receive a 'commission' of sorts in the form of power. Whether you pray to the god itself or just to its representative, the power still goes to the deity. The deity then gives 'payment' to its agents in the form of boons and spells. Mystra's Chosen (THE Chosen) don't require this sort of setup, since she gives them powers and abilities regardless of how they serve her. The sheer act of being a Chosen helps promote Mystra's cause, and thats all she require of them. (Actually, I am over simplifying, but you get the idea.)

So, since The Chosen don't need to show any 'hard numbers' to their 'boss', they do not need the artificial layer of folks venerating them (which is how other deities keep track of who is providing what). This is how I see things working; YMMV.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Nov 2012 17:29:52
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2012 :  21:40:20  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Hero-Deities? Meh. The Realms have them already----the Chosen. Some of the lesser deities' exploits pale in comparison to many of the Chosen, specially Mystra's.

Every beginning has an end.
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Euranna
Learned Scribe

USA
219 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2012 :  00:10:06  Show Profile Send Euranna a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted Kelemvor. I like how quickly he "got it". Though I also can appreciate Bane. Cyric reminds me too much of some bad players we have had at our table that have gotten the boot for trying to ruin things.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2012 :  02:42:13  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd have to vote for Leira, as I'm not overly fond of Cyric- too nuts- and I never cared much about most of the others. I like Kelemvor as a god of death. A neutral death-god just makes sense to me. I like the idea of the goddess of illusions faking her own death. It's very apropos for me.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

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My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2012 :  22:29:08  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Crazy gods make interesting villains!
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