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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 13:58:57
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Seeing as both you guys have written North/Sword coast/Waterdeep sources books post 1363 I was wondering if either of you could reveal any info about the party that "Officially" completed FRQ1 Hordes of Dragonspear?
Thanks in advance
PS Also who officially freed Halaster from the Twisted Ruin?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 08 Sep 2006 14:01:16
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 16:19:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Seeing as both you guys have written North/Sword coast/Waterdeep sources books post 1363 I was wondering if either of you could reveal any info about the party that "Officially" completed FRQ1 Hordes of Dragonspear?
Thanks in advance
PS Also who officially freed Halaster from the Twisted Ruin?
`twould violate one basic rule of D&D Game Design: Set up for a resolution, but always leave it open for players to be the ones to do so in their campaigns.
Thus, it will always (so far as I know) be "adventurers to be named later" that free Halaster, cleanse Dragonspear, brave the Haunted Halls, reestablish the dwarves of Undermountain (the Lost Level), etc.
In other words, there is no official group of adventurers who did this--it's assumed that YOUR group of heroes did that.
And would you really want that slot to be filled by others?
Steven
Who tried as much as possible to make sure that any plots he filled would not have been covered by actions of too many adventurers....
PS: The Twisted Ruin? I LIKE that name and now want to make a dungeon in the ruins of Shoonach with that name. Funny how typos can make for the oddest brainstorms... 
PPS: No, I'm not poking fun at you, Dargoth--it really did make me think of new things beyond the Twisted Rune. Really.  |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 16:31:47
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When the modules are dated (like Stardock and Hordes of Dragonspear are) I think there should be an official recognition that the issue has been resolved and who resolved it. Basicly it means a dated module has shifted from being an active adventure to a piece of Faerunian Lore.
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 16:34:56
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Perhaps the Twisted Ruin could belong to the Twisted Rune? Perhaps a experiment graveyard or mystical Toxic waste dump for old spells and monsters of their make? Or their own highly guarded vault for storing secrets and tools that could be used at a later date, like details they have stolen from Halaster on portal making or secrets of the undead?
Think of the possiblities!!! |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 23:18:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
When the modules are dated (like Stardock and Hordes of Dragonspear are) I think there should be an official recognition that the issue has been resolved and who resolved it. Basicly it means a dated module has shifted from being an active adventure to a piece of Faerunian Lore.
And what about those adventuring parties that have completed them? Should every DM tell his/her players that "Uh guys, it REALLY was the Company of the Cloak that cleansed the Dragonspear, NOT you. Maybe you were just dreaming or something...?" |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 08 Sep 2006 23:20:43 |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 23:33:35
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How about a compromise? An unoffical adventuring team? One that can be used that need a definate lesson, but which would not replace the heroes who want to play those adventures?
Just a thought to bring peace to your souls. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 23:53:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
And what about those adventuring parties that have completed them? Should every DM tell his/her players that "Uh guys, it REALLY was the Company of the Cloak that cleansed the Dragonspear, NOT you. Maybe you were just dreaming or something...?"
No then the DM ignores the "Official party" if hes got a campaign that ran th modules. However if your running a campaign after the event then there should be info on who did it.
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2006 : 23:57:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
And what about those adventuring parties that have completed them? Should every DM tell his/her players that "Uh guys, it REALLY was the Company of the Cloak that cleansed the Dragonspear, NOT you. Maybe you were just dreaming or something...?"
No then the DM ignores the "Official party" if hes got a campaign that ran th modules. However if your running a campaign after the event then there should be info on who did it.
Aye,
Dargoth is correct for this topic. A lot of other NPC adventuring groups have finished off modules that were designed for FR. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 01:11:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Seeing as both you guys have written North/Sword coast/Waterdeep sources books post 1363 I was wondering if either of you could reveal any info about the party that "Officially" completed FRQ1 Hordes of Dragonspear?
I agree with Steven.
That said, there may be a LOT more information on this particular topic in the coming months ... no promises yet.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 05:33:56
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I sincerely hope that we never see «official» characters that resolve modules and adventures set in the Forgotten Realms. If the module hasn't been played in a campaign, then it simply never occured or the DM decides who made it through. Of course, that rule (my rule that is) has already been broken by old modules like the time of troubles trilogy or the Azure bonds thing. I never was a big fan of modules that recreate events in a novel or a computer game.
Those are my thoughts on this.
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 06:31:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Patrakis
I sincerely hope that we never see «official» characters that resolve modules and adventures set in the Forgotten Realms. If the module hasn't been played in a campaign, then it simply never occured or the DM decides who made it through. Of course, that rule (my rule that is) has already been broken by old modules like the time of troubles trilogy or the Azure bonds thing. I never was a big fan of modules that recreate events in a novel or a computer game.
Those are my thoughts on this.
Pat
Well as I said above, this isn't the case and a lot of modules have been finished off by in game adventuring groups. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 06:44:09
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Sometimes the events are assumed completed by NPC's inside the adventure with the assistance of unnamed others. Wyrmskull Throne comes to mind, where a later sourcebook (Lands of Intrigue? Not sure.) notes that the Throne was recovered and was being held in trust by a dwarf NPC from the adventure, waiting someone worthy.
And I also like the idea of additional bands of adventurers completing quests, provided there's a bunch of them. If the Knights of Shanatar (for instance) pop up in Seros, Tethyr, Undermountain, and Hellgate Keep all in the span of four months, we have a problem. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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EytanBernstein
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
704 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 09:04:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
When the modules are dated (like Stardock and Hordes of Dragonspear are) I think there should be an official recognition that the issue has been resolved and who resolved it. Basicly it means a dated module has shifted from being an active adventure to a piece of Faerunian Lore.
That sounds like a good idea, but the problem with that is that it assumes that the modules end a certain way. When we were writing DoF, I talked this issue over with a few different FR and Wizards people. A few suggested that if we need to weed out dragons, it's easy to eliminate some dragon writeups because it's possible that they died in an adventure - Voaraghamanthar and Waervaerendor for example. In this case, I agreed, mostly because if they are in an adventure, there is probably some decent info on them. While some of the dragons in the book are updated from other book (especially important ones), we tried to explore ones that weren't whenever possible
Who knows what might happen on any given adventure, especially when dragons are involved? That meant that plot elements described in adventures are open ended. If the PCs go to the Cliffs of Karthaut and stop the cultists from converting dragon turtles, that's what happened in that group's world. If another group gets totaled by Tsenshivah's breath weapon or the Guardian, they didn't end up stopping the Cult and the events continue. An adventure is just a site with challenges, plots, and creatures until it is found. There are thousands of adventures that are undetailed all over the world. Until they are found, they usually remain open, whether they were in a 1E module, a 3.5 supplement, or a recent issue of Dungeon. |
http://eytanbernstein.com - the official website of Eytan Bernstein |
Edited by - EytanBernstein on 10 Sep 2006 02:18:31 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 09:34:48
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There are things tho that did happen in the official world that are based on adventures:
Castle Spulzeer did vanish...
Waukeen returned...
These two things were in adventures and were later incorporated into the FRCS lore, thus some adventuring group must have done these things "officially" |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 14:47:55
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A large number of FR adventures have bee wound up
Stardock (Someone went to stardock and released Halaster from the Twisted Rune) its is therefore a completed module so far as the official timelines concerned and the end result is free Halaster
Curse of the Azure Bonds (This has been declared complete in both the FRC and DoF)
Hellsgate keep (Sarya got free)
and the list goes on, the modules have been completed because the "official" timeline has moves on.
Using Stardock as an example and taking Eytans/Stevens arguement to the exstreme. There should never be another FR source book on Waterdeep or Undermountain because if there is then it will contradict SOMEONES campaign there where several outcomes to Stardock
1) The Party could have failed and Halaster Harvest could have resulted in the destruction of much of waterdeep
2)The Party could have succceeded and released Halaster from the Twisted Runes clutches
3) The party could have defeated the Twisted Rune and then KILLED Halaster
Now theres no way that Erics 3ed city of Splendors could have addressed the current stautus of Halaster AND not contradicted someones campaign.
Now addressing that issue
I would much rather FR designers provide me with infomation and find I do not need it or it contradicts my campaign then to not have the infomation at all.
Speaking for myself if Eric/Steven/Eytan (or even Ed  ) write an FR source book that contradicts something thats going on in my on going campaign then Ill ignore the offending material from that source book. Now thats not to say Ill never use the "offending infomation, I may run another campaign and decide to run with the official line. DMs know how to cut paste what they want from FR source books.
Hell Kuje has said hes running a FR campaign that still uses the Great Wheel
Other Candlekeep scribes are running FR campaign where the Time of Troubles never happaned
and then theres Ed both he and the Hooded One have said on several occasions that Eds home campaign does not reflect the published FR material
The fact of the matter is that as soon as your players make their first die roll your campaign has stepped away from the "Official" timeline.
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 15:42:47
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quote:
Who knows what might happen on any given adventure, especially when dragons are involved? That meant that plot elements described in adventures are open ended. If the PCs go to the Cliffs of Karthaut and stop the cultists from converting dragon turtles, that's what happened in that group's world. If another group gets totaled by Tsenshivah's breath weapon or the Guardian, they didn't end up stopping the Cult and the events continue. An adventure is just a site with challenges, plots, and creatures until it is found. There are thousands of adventures that are undetailed all over the world. Until they are found, they usually remain open, whether they were in a 1E module, a 3.5 supplement, or a recent issue of Dungeon.
Hooray for that.
And thats why i pray that when the 4E comes up and the realms is revisited yet again, they will stop the timeline and retro describe the world instead of advancing it year after year.
Pat
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Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
Edited by - Patrakis on 09 Sep 2006 15:49:30 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2006 : 17:19:57
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I don't mind adventures having been declared complete, and I love that the timeline is constantly moving forward... But I simply don't see a need for a designated "if you wasn't your guys, it was these guys" party to have done it.
If it wasn't your PCs, it doesn't really matter who did it, only that it was done. If it does matter, then either make a generic group that did it -- "NPC party #6" -- or custom build some NPCs that suit your purposes. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2006 : 01:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't mind adventures having been declared complete, and I love that the timeline is constantly moving forward... But I simply don't see a need for a designated "if you wasn't your guys, it was these guys" party to have done it.
If it wasn't your PCs, it doesn't really matter who did it, only that it was done. If it does matter, then either make a generic group that did it -- "NPC party #6" -- or custom build some NPCs that suit your purposes.
Good point, Wooly--if your characters finish up the events of a module, YOU did it. If not, Someone Else obviously did it. If it really matters, YOU AS GAMEMASTER can make it Group X. If it's not stated WHO did something, it doesn't matter who did it. If the timeline moves forward and acknowledges something was done but not by whom, it only becomes important to say who if it matters to your campaign....in which case it'd be the job of the DM to say who did it anyways.
Heck, that'd be one way to motivate your players--if Group X is constantly showing them up by doing all these other things they haven't, that could drive your player group to try and out-do Group X.
That said, I have to stand by my previous statement.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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A question for Steven Schend or Eric Boyd
