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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 09:46:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs use troglodyte to explore Underdark. Troglodytes gives to sarrukhs informations about illithids and aboleths civilizations, and also about others deep creatures.
Is there anyone knows more about this other deep creatures and how old, and where are illithids and aboleths civilizations come from?
(I don't now if it's the good post for such question)
Dunno about the Aboleths, but the Illithids came from another plane in the distant future (i think). Wouldn't it be a chuckle if they turned outto be a creator race? |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 09:58:13
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| If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 10:22:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
Ah! That is correct, I was referencing the 'generic' lore, i think... Good old spelljammers, I dread the day my players get their hands on one  |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 11:11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
Ah! That is correct, I was referencing the 'generic' lore, i think... Good old spelljammers, I dread the day my players get their hands on one
One of the theories from the Book of Aberrations states that the illithids are basically entities that arrived from a far off future. They travelled back in time apparently, to flee racial destruction. It was recorded that they appeared two thousand years before the "present" era and enslaved the race of creatures which would come to be collectively referred to as the "gith."
However, this doesn't relate completely [aside from the reference to possible time travel] with the theory from the "Sargonne Prophecies" in The Illithiad. Sargonne was a seer and the prophecies he recorded were believed to foretell future events. He recorded his visions on a stone tablet which came to bear his name. This stone tablet seems to make reference to a "seed" which violently appeared in our multiverse from a nightmarish realm beyond mortal comprehension [likely the Far Realm] which gave rise to the early precursors of the illithid populations in our reality.
It is possible that this seed contained thousands and thousands of the illithids tadpoles that are a necessary component for a mortal's transformation into an illithid as a result of the process of ceremorphosis. Ceremorphosis is simply the way illithids "reproduce," so perhaps these first tadpoles encounter emerging mortal forms on the worlds they fell upon creating the illithid standard we are familiar with today.
There is another theory stating that the illithids were the products of mortals breaching the planar boundaries between our reality and that of the Far Realm, and returning to our multiverse after being exposed to the transformation process in the Far Realm. These illithids would likely have brought the secrets of their creation back with them in order to perpetuate their species in our multiverse.
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Edited by - The Sage on 14 Nov 2009 11:18:15 |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 12:38:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
Is there anyone knows more about this other deep creatures and how old, and where are illithids and aboleths civilizations come from?
(I don't now if it's the good post for such question)
There's one theory -- established in The Essential Guide to Mind Flayers -- that suggests aboleths represent a proto-mutation of the mind flayer form. In essence, the aboleths and the proto-mind flayers shared a common ancestral progenitor. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
268 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 16:11:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs from Mhairshaulk (c. -34800 to c. -33500) know existence of illithids... so... there's a contradiction... |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2009 : 17:01:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs from Mhairshaulk (c. -34800 to c. -33500) know existence of illithids... so... there's a contradiction...
Not necessarily. Prior to -11,000, there might have been a few isolated illithids in the Realms, having arrived either by spelljammer way in advance of the main colonization, or they might have wound up on Toril via planar travel. Alternatively, the sarrukh may have encountered the illithids somewhere other than Toril, thru similar methods.
To use a real-world example, someone living in England could quite likely know of the existence of rednecks from the US's Deep South. That doesn't mean that there are rednecks in the UK, though. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 00:20:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
If you read the write-up of Oryndoll in Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, you'll note Eric Boyd suggests pretty strongly that the illithids arrived in the Realms circa -11,000 DR from the planet of Glyth via spelljammers.
In Serpent Kingdoms, sarrukhs from Mhairshaulk (c. -34800 to c. -33500) know existence of illithids... so... there's a contradiction...
Not really.
Some of those few illithids the sarrukh encountered might have been scouts for the main population from Glyth, sent to explore the Realms. Perhaps they spent thousands and thousands of years slowly setting up some enclaves of illithid-spawn in the hope of "shaping" events in the Realms, to prepare for the arrival of their masters in -11,000 DR. Or, maybe they were exiles, or escaped prisoners.
Additionally, given some of the alternate origin/creation methods I noted above previously, perhaps other illithid types entered the Realms through other ways well before the advance of the main population from Glyth.
We shouldn't also discount the possibility that the powerful magicks commanded by the sarrukh allowed them to peer through portals/gateways or utilise other arcane methods to explore Realmspace, and learn of the illithid population on Glyth. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 15 Nov 2009 00:26:09 |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2009 : 19:08:50
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My favorite theory is that the illithids fled to Toril as refugees from the Gith rebellion. Evidence for this is found in Driz'zt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark which says that Oryndoll was settled circa -11,000 DR by illithid refugees from Glyth. While there are other possible things they could have been fleeing from, internal strife, attack from beholders from H'Catha, natural disaster, Tarrasque attack, I like to think this date marks the start of the slave revolt led by Gith.
We are told in the Guide to the Astral that Gith was named after her homeworld. I think it likely that Gith was raised on Glyth. The names are similar enough that the slight difference in spelling could be accounted for by 12,000 years of linguistic drift. Or something as simple as a grammatical infix--perhaps "l" is used as a genitive marker, place name marker, or neutral gender marker in the Gith language.
If so, then the illithids likely colonized the planet Glyth long before the rebellion, perhaps tens of thousands of years. They could easily have explored Toril, sent raiding parties to kidnap humans for implantation, maybe even had some kind of contact with Sarrukh or Batrachi in the past, but refrained from settling Toril for various reasons until they were forced to flee there as refugees during the war. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 08:46:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To use a real-world example, someone living in England could quite likely know of the existence of rednecks from the US's Deep South. That doesn't mean that there are rednecks in the UK, though.
So true! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Creator Races and the Days of Thunder
