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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 08:14:01
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| I've read two offerings from Philip Athans and did not enjoy either experience. Thus, I was worried I wouldn't like this story much. However, for the most part, I found this faustian themed tale engaging. My biggest complaint is the ending which seemed a bit too pat and abrupt to this reader. |
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darkcrow
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 01:43:16
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| I thought this story was excellent. I wonder if this story is tied in with a Trilogy. I wish it was a little longer though. It left me wanting more of the story and I hope there is more somewhere. I love how the story wraps up though. Valmaxian lies to Kelaerede on his death bed that he is going to change his ways by ending the pact with the demon and create his staff the way Kelaerede taught him and in the end that is exactly what he does. His hunger for love pervailed over his hunger for power. Good stuff. The only thing that I could of done without was the exact dimensions of every room he described. It was a little to gamey for my taste in a novel read. Other than that, Good Stuff. |
May Tymora smile upon ye |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 17:51:37
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quote:
Originally posted by darkcrow
I thought this story was excellent. I wonder if this story is tied in with a Trilogy.
The story was originally written for the "ill-fated" Neverwinter Nights anthology. |
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darkcrow
Learned Scribe
USA
269 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 18:30:41
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| Thats to bad. I really would like to see that anthology. |
May Tymora smile upon ye |
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Beezy
Learned Scribe
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2006 : 22:18:56
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| I also liked the this tale but I felt there was something that needed fixed at the end as well. The rest of the story was fantastic. Valmaxian tried to take the easy road and had to pay for it eventually. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 17:17:45
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I like this story. It does make me wonder what happened with the earlier Athans work, and with his book in the War of the Spider Queen. I did like this story, and well as the first book of the Watercourse Trilogy (though Watercourse is definately a stylistic kind of series, not a typical trilogy). I am surpised though, that no one has mentioned anything about the elven ages represented in this story. These elves are a little long in the tooth compared to the age categories we have come to be familiar with, though I don't really have a problem with that, given that I have always beleived that elven age is a lot more maleable and subject to elven outlook than other species.
A question about the name Valmaxian. Did this name make it into any lore in Neverwinter Nights? For some reason the name sounds familiar to me, and I know that all of the stories in the Neverwinter Nights anthology were suppose to tie into items in the game (if only such lore had been tied to the storyline . . . ah well). |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 18:35:20
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Yep, the staff appears in the game:
quote:
Identified description: In ancient times, the proud and quarrelsome wizard Valmaxian was a man of great power and prominence. He crafted this staff with the aid of a demon, all to win the heart of Chasianna, the daughter of his long-dead master. When the debt came due, the demon demanded Chasianna as his price. In a rage, Valmaxian descended into the Abyss and used the staff to battle the demon and rescue the woman he loved.
Properties:
AC Bonus [+2]
Cast spell: Chain Lightning (11) [5 charges/use]
Cast spell: Ethereal Visage (9) [5 charges/use]
Cast spell: Fireball (5) [3 charges/use]
Enhancement bonus [+3]
Use limitation class: Wizard
Use limitation class: Sorcerer
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2006 : 19:08:10
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Thanks Winterfox. I could have looked through the Toolkit, I suppose, but everytime I open up that darn thing I end up spending a few hours tweaking items to see how close I can get them to ones that are either in ruleboks or from various novels, then I look at the clock and realize that I have lost more hours than I used to when I played KOTOR or Starcraft.
Speaking of matching descriptions . . . funny that magic missles seem to absent from the item's list of powers. (Yes, I know, I'm just being a pain now) |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 12:03:16
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I really enjoyed this story. The relationship between Valmaxian and Kelaerede was really well done. Typical of the apprentice to know best and go behind his back and steal the scroll. The demon summoning was fantastic, probably the best scene of this type i've read. The whole spinning ball..oval...ring...portal transformation was great. Loved the demon too (sorry, don't recall his name at the moment).
One of my favorite scenes here was when Valmaxian went to see Kelaerede on his deathbed and then was forced to go back and make amends. It was quite a touching moment with all that he said and then when his master died smiling, only then for it to reveal that Valmaxian had lied on every point but fooled them all.
Ya know, why do mages always summon and bind demons to do their bidding, agree to a deal and then ALWAYS betray them and back out of their side of the bargain? I feel sorry for these demons, all they want is what was promised to them 
Nice eerie scene when Valmaxian went looking for Chasianna and heard no response and then saw the room ripped open and within the abyss. The dretch fights were nice and the fight with the demon was great. Very nasty how he ended up ripped apart with just a head and arm remaining attached..but still able to speak.
I quite like how they escaped in the end, with the demon calling after them and trying to drill into Valmaxian that ultimately he had failed as a mage.
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Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2006 : 17:51:04
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An excellent portrayal of elven highmages etc. and ancient elven magical might!
i did think the end was abrupt though, and Valmaxian changes character very quickly after meeting Cha- whats her name |
"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2006 : 11:00:26
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I liked this story also. Valmaxian was a pretty complex character, I enjoyed his moral redemption and the triumph of his love. The only thing I didn't 'get' about the story was just what boon the demon gave him? Was it the power to create magic items with lasting power without sacrificing personal vitality? It seemed to be something along those lines, but of course this is a very 1E and 2E concept. Not too bad an effort.
The Swordsage
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 07:11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
I liked this story also. Valmaxian was a pretty complex character, I enjoyed his moral redemption and the triumph of his love. The only thing I didn't 'get' about the story was just what boon the demon gave him? Was it the power to create magic items with lasting power without sacrificing personal vitality? It seemed to be something along those lines, but of course this is a very 1E and 2E concept. Not too bad an effort.
The Swordsage
i dont see whats so specifically older edition about it... i think the demon granted a wish to Valmaxian that allowed him to create magic items with out an XP cost.
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"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
::moussaoui tries to interrupt::
"You will never get a chance to speak again and that's an appropriate ending."
-Judge Brinkema |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2006 : 03:23:40
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I just started this story and I like it so far...but I found it a bit strange that the mentor says to V something to the effect of: "You are still young and impatient--only 500 years old."
Isn't 500 years old actually rather middle-aged for an elf? I guess one can fall back on the old "things are different with elves!" rationale, but a character who is technically middle-aged doesn't really suit the role (IMO) of the typical brash, young, thinks-he-knows-it-all apprentice. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 04 Aug 2006 03:24:06 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2006 : 04:08:46
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It's older than middle aged. Your 'typical' elf in 3E doesn't live much longer than that; you had to be at least around 350 to be an Elven High Mage, even.
The "oldest" Elves we know about (barring the Srinshee) have only been around a millennium, even in previous editions, when they were theoretically immortal. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2006 : 04:55:35
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
It's older than middle aged. Your 'typical' elf in 3E doesn't live much longer than that; you had to be at least around 350 to be an Elven High Mage, even.
The "oldest" Elves we know about (barring the Srinshee) have only been around a millennium, even in previous editions, when they were theoretically immortal.
And yet, here we have a 500 year old elf being called "young" and "impatient". How old is the guy who is talking to him?
These aren't exactly spring chickens! |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 04 Aug 2006 04:56:25 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2006 : 05:18:14
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I think the Runemaster and Eltargrim were each about a millenium old.. Both of which were Epic characters.
I'd love to here more about an elder elf that powerful. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2006 : 01:37:00
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OK, the elven lore in this story definitely is a little bit wacky. Not only do we have Valmaxian described by the unbiased narrative as a "young elf", even though 500 isn't young at all even by elf standards, but Val is a gold elf...with blue-green hair.
I guess maybe he's one of those so-called "bottle blues". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 02:45:08
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Update: The story has moved forward 700 years and our gold elven bottle blue is now about 1200 years old. That's...pretty wacky. And no, he's not described as being "falling apart old" either. What's even stranger is that Val's mentor only just died, and since HE considered 500 years old to be "young" 700 years ago, he was obviously even older.
What does the author think the typical elven lifespan is, 5000 years? Rarely does an elf live to be even 1000.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Aug 2006 02:47:50 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 02:49:38
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Yeah... I have to say that's a bit funky, too.
Especially considering even if one uses 3E lore, the max normal lifespan is about 650 I believe for Sun Elves, and age-prolonging magic in the current edition is very rare (for some reason). |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 02:50:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Beirnadri Magranth
i did think the end was abrupt though, and Valmaxian changes character very quickly after meeting Cha- whats her name
I agree. Well, he doesn't change his overall character, really, but he is suddenly described as being deeply in love with her with no buildup. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 02:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Yeah... I have to say that's a bit funky, too.
Especially considering even if one uses 3E lore, the max normal lifespan is about 650 I believe for Sun Elves, and age-prolonging magic in the current edition is very rare (for some reason).
Oh yeah--also, Chasianna is described as having "chesnut" hair, even though the only elves that really have that color are wood elves, and she is not described as such. In fact, all evidence in this story suggests she's a gold elf--she's the granddaughter of Val's wizard mentor in Siluvenade, which is described as a city of gold elves, and apparently the important mages are all gold elves. I guess brown hair on a gold elf isn't as strange as blue-green hair on one, though.
Really, the story itself isn't that bad, even if it's not very subtle, either (Val and Chasianna become inseparable after zero buildup), but the funky elven lore is making me like it less. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Aug 2006 02:57:28 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:01:27
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| Funky elven lore seems to be the norm in novels nowdays. It makes one forget what the norm is; or for those fans who never read the older lore, it makes them not even know what normal means. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:02:27
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Funky elven lore seems to be the norm in novels nowdays. It makes one forget what the norm is; or for those fans who never read the older lore, it makes them not even know what normal means.
True, on all counts (hey, the proof's in the pudding, and I've seen it for myself). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 07 Aug 2006 03:03:06 |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:04:59
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| I wonder what the author has to say on this stuff..? *Curious* |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
I wonder what the author has to say on this stuff..? *Curious*
We won't hear it, since Phil Athans doesn't post on message boards. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 03:32:51
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Does that mean we could theoretically be mean? *Snickers, hides from mods.*
Kidding! |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 04:04:54
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quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Does that mean we could theoretically be mean? *Snickers, hides from mods.*
Kidding!
No.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2006 : 04:28:40
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| I know, Kuje. I was kidding. :) |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2006 : 02:09:33
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Finished this story. I'm a little...confused. Valmaxian used a retributive strike from the staff to defeat the demon, so how come he wasn't destroyed or whisked to another plane? Isn't that what usually happens when you use a staff's RS? I know much of his wizardly might gets sapped, but I didn't realize that would protect someone from the normal effects of a RS.
I wasn't overly impressed with the fight scenes, but then again, I never cared much for Phil's fight scenes in the Baldur's Gate novels or in Whisper of Waves. Some authors write action scenes I can get into, some don't. *shrug* Overall, I can't say this story grabbed me, although it wasn't bad, and it had some nice touches, like "The demon was wrong" at the end. Still...it's hard for me to feel happy for a character (Valmaxian) winning over the demon that he willingly bargained with and stupidly believed he wouldn't have to pay. And this elf acted like an ass for pretty much the whole story--tell me why I should care?
Also, I find it rather amusing that this book was written around an item that can be found in the Neverwinter Nights CRPG (the Staff of Valmaxian, which for a "masterpiece" isn't all that hard to obtain in that game), yet the story destroys the staff. I guess Valmaxian eventually made another one. After all, he still had plenty of time left.
He was only 1200 years old.
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 08 Aug 2006 03:10:54 |
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Realms of the Elves: "The Staff of Valmaxian"
