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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2005 :  22:03:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pipers Youth

I'm sorry if I didn't elaborate. It wasn't mentioned in the poll on the first post but the Spider Queen trilogy contains these books.

1( Dissolution: by Richard Lee Byers
2( Insurrection: by Thomas M. Reid
3( Condemnation: by Richard Backer
4( Extinction: by Lisa Smedman
5( Annihilation: by Phillip Athans
6( Resurrection: by Paul S. Kemp

The time is based on the War of The Spider Queen, when Lolth has suddenly disappeared, and withdrawn her favor from her priestesses. In the process Menz, along with other drow cities are left crippled, and other neighboring cities in the Underdark, along with males in general rise up against them to try to gain power. And in the story, one expedition team sent by the Matron of the first house of Menzberranzan, to find out the any clues to the whereabouts of Lolth.

Eh, I don't want to revel any spoilers, but that's basically it in a nutshell.



Actually, what threw The Sage was your use of the word "trilogy". A trilogy is, by definition, three books. The Spider Queen series is a sextet.

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Pipers Youth
Acolyte

11 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2005 :  22:13:13  Show Profile  Visit Pipers Youth's Homepage Send Pipers Youth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eh? Ho! Sorry, silly me. Well it was an honest mistake. What confused me was the title

"The Spider Queen Trilogy"

Then let me reaffirm my earlier statement then.

My favorite trilogy would be The Hunters Blade Trilogy by RA Salvatore. Consisting of

The Thousand Orcs
The Lone Drow
The Two Swords

"I...I truly wish Vangerdahast was still irritating half of Cormyr by running things in his usual capable fashion. He'd handle things so much better than I do."

-Caladnei, Mage Royal
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2005 :  08:52:29  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Actually, what threw The Sage was your use of the word "trilogy". A trilogy is, by definition, three books.


Unless, as has been said earlier, we're talking about Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe

Denmark
468 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2005 :  16:47:02  Show Profile  Visit Faramicos's Homepage Send Faramicos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So many great posts, but so few are on the subject at hand. A trilogy consists of 3 books, not 4, not 6, but 3 books. Period. I would like to have the discussion fall back on track and deal with the great trilogies (3 books) of the Forgotten Realms.

"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2005 :  17:16:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faramicos

So many great posts, but so few are on the subject at hand. A trilogy consists of 3 books, not 4, not 6, but 3 books. Period. I would like to have the discussion fall back on track and deal with the great trilogies (3 books) of the Forgotten Realms.



Most of the off-subject posts were correcting others on what is and is not a trilogy.

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Arlenion
Acolyte

36 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2005 :  18:13:16  Show Profile  Visit Arlenion's Homepage Send Arlenion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My favorite isn't listed; Shandril's Saga
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe

Denmark
468 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2005 :  18:33:41  Show Profile  Visit Faramicos's Homepage Send Faramicos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fair enough... As the posts have been added to my poll i can see that there is alot of FR trilogies i dont know about. I am glad though that so many knew pieces of literature have come to my knowledge so that i can buy them and read them. The poll have perhaps lost some of its meaning, but keep the posts coming with more trilogies so that i can get them all written down.

"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings"
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe

Denmark
468 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2005 :  18:35:38  Show Profile  Visit Faramicos's Homepage Send Faramicos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Correcting is good and i incourage it, but lets all be careful that it doesnt get out of hand.

"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings"
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Pipers Youth
Acolyte

11 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  03:48:53  Show Profile  Visit Pipers Youth's Homepage Send Pipers Youth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eh, don't get your knickers in a twist. Twas a simple mistake, that's all.

"I...I truly wish Vangerdahast was still irritating half of Cormyr by running things in his usual capable fashion. He'd handle things so much better than I do."

-Caladnei, Mage Royal
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  05:17:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And, without further ado, let us return to discussing people's favorite Realms trilogies.

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Faramicos
Senior Scribe

Denmark
468 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  13:03:23  Show Profile  Visit Faramicos's Homepage Send Faramicos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you... I am a great fan of all that Salvatore produces and the Dark Elf Trilogy was the trilogy that realy got me to love the Forgotten Realms and after reading it i knew that it was the world i wanted to be a DM in. So [I would look to hear detailed reasons as to why you may think a particular FR trilogy is more enjoyable for you than the 'Dark Elf' trilogy]. Post them with a detailed explanationas to why you like the trilogy in mention so that therest of us can decide if it should be our next purchase in the book-store... And so it begins (again)

MODERATOR EDIT: To remove potential for flaming.

"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings"

Edited by - The Sage on 02 Aug 2005 15:05:45
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe

895 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  14:21:31  Show Profile  Visit Winterfox's Homepage Send Winterfox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faramicos

Thank you... I am a great fan of all that Salvatore produces and the Dark Elf Trilogy was the trilogy that realy got me to love the Forgotten Realms and after reading it i knew that it was the world i wanted to be a DM in. So [I would look to hear detailed reasons as to why you may think a particular FR trilogy is more enjoyable for you than the 'Dark Elf' trilogy].


I loved Counselors & Kings for its very unique setting. Where most fantasy takes place in quasi-Renaissance/quasi-medieval city-states/quasi-European settings, Halruaa is surrounded by swamp and jungle, populated by exotic, interesting creatures. The characters are intriguing and believable; Tgizone could have easily fallen into the flat street waif archetype, but she doesn't -- she's witty, fun, and far from invulnerable. Matteo could have easily fallen into a stiff, almost-paladin, self-righteous archetype, but he doesn't -- he's susceptible to folly. Akivaria could have been a one-dimensional, revenge-mad villain, but she's not -- her motives are understandable, even sympathetic. All of them are multi-faceted in each of his/her way, and I always give props to antagonists who are genuinely intelligent and not a stupidly evil paper tiger. The politicking and subplots are all wonderful, and not at all predictable.

War of the Spider Queen, while not a trilogy, is still pretty damn good. I haven't read all of it, and I'm not sure how big a role Salvatore plays in its making, but its drow characters are strikingly intelligent, dynamic, and three-dimensional. The plot's sufficiently complex to keep you guessing, and the exploration of the drow culture that's not just limited to "Omg drow are evil, males are oppressed, females are all screaming sadistic harpies" is great.

The Black Wolf, The Shattered Mask, Lord of Stormweather -- part of a series, and by different people. The Shattered Mask has a villain who plots intelligently, and believably -- I don't feel that the protagonist is a half-brained idiot to fall for it at all, and that's always a good thing considering how many half-witted fantasy protagonists there are in the genre. Female lead who's strong without being obnoxious, flawed while still sympathetic, and can kick asses without the need for magical pets, swords, or armor. The Black Wolf and Lord of Stormweather classify, I think, as bildungsroman. And ordinarily I absolutely loathe bildungsroman stories, because it'll involve utterly trite plot devices, godawful teenage crushes, and moral lessons with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer. These two books tickled me the right way: the protagonists do learn something, but don't wind up scrubbed free of flaws; the implication is that they still have more growing up to do. Combined with the characterization, plot and setting (I love the world in the painting), these two books are easily some of the best coming-of-age fiction I've read.

The DE trilogy wasn't bad, but where I'm concerned, it doesn't remotely approach the "best" in the FR arsenal. It might have been a more fascinating read if the books didn't revolve around a single theme, and executes it in such a ham-fisted, shove-down-your-throat way. Oh, and because it does involve coming-of-age in a way, and it's done in a way that I deeply dislike (look! This is a moral message here, whack! This is a message about racial prejudice, whack! This is about childhood illusion shattering, whack! Can we be any more blunt?), it loses even more points.

Edited by - The Sage on 02 Aug 2005 15:06:35
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Crust
Learned Scribe

USA
273 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2005 :  21:03:29  Show Profile  Visit Crust's Homepage Send Crust a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My favorites include:

-Shadows of the Avatar
-Empires
-Moonshae
-the first three Elminster books

The Scions of Arrabar and the Last Mythal trilogies will be on that list soon, I'm sure.

"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"

Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"

"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."

~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore

USA
1287 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  04:57:04  Show Profile Send Mournblade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am inclined to say the first Moonshae trilogy. They were the first realms books written, and I anxiously devoured them when they were printed.

I am not Sure if Moonshae is my favourite because they were the first or because they were the best.

No because it was the first...

THE BEST:

Crystal Shard... Streams of Silver... and Halflings Gem.

It is sad, but far too many people that love Drizzt have never read where he started. I know many will argue, but these should be read even before Homeland.

After all would you really want to watch Revenge of the Sith BEFORE episodes 4,5, and 6?


A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to...
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  06:34:45  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade

THE BEST:

Crystal Shard... Streams of Silver... and Halflings Gem.

It is sad, but far too many people that love Drizzt have never read where he started. I know many will argue, but these should be read even before Homeland.
Especially after RAS also said much of the same early last year when asked about the reading order of the first "Drizzt" novels.

quote:
After all would you really want to watch Revenge of the Sith BEFORE episodes 4,5, and 6?
Yes, absolutely .

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  11:25:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade

THE BEST:

Crystal Shard... Streams of Silver... and Halflings Gem.

It is sad, but far too many people that love Drizzt have never read where he started. I know many will argue, but these should be read even before Homeland.
Especially after RAS also said much of the same early last year when asked about the reading order of the first "Drizzt" novels.


Bah! I still think that books should be read in chronological order.

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade

After all would you really want to watch Revenge of the Sith BEFORE episodes 4,5, and 6?
Yes, absolutely .




I will in November.

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Faramicos
Senior Scribe

Denmark
468 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  11:42:25  Show Profile  Visit Faramicos's Homepage Send Faramicos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What just happened to my post? What is this... "MODERATOR EDIT: To remove potential for flaming." Who have edited my post and why?

"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings"
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Defender
Acolyte

24 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  12:27:08  Show Profile  Visit Defender's Homepage Send Defender a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Odd....that my favorite trilogies, the return of the archwizards and the threat of the sea trilogy isn't listed here. Well, these two trilogies are among the trilogies I favor besides the Avatar Series, the Pools Trilogy and the Moonshae trilogy. Reasons why I like these trilogies? I will answer later once I got a proper answer ironed out.

Justice is swift and will strike when you least expect it.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  12:34:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faramicos

What just happened to my post? What is this... "MODERATOR EDIT: To remove potential for flaming." Who have edited my post and why?




It was edited by The Sage, who obviously felt that your choice of words could lead to flaming. You should PM him for more information.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Aug 2005 12:35:19
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  14:27:05  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Bah! I still think that books should be read in chronological order.
And usually, so would I... I just hope the Bookwyrm isn't lurking here... .

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Faramicos

What just happened to my post? What is this... "MODERATOR EDIT: To remove potential for flaming." Who have edited my post and why?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It was edited by The Sage, who obviously felt that your choice of words could lead to flaming. You should PM him for more information.
And I will answer you through PM as well Faramicos .

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Faramicos
Senior Scribe

Denmark
468 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  16:43:06  Show Profile  Visit Faramicos's Homepage Send Faramicos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you... The case is solved, settled and understood. Lets get back to the discussions.

"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings"
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Tremaine
Seeker

United Kingdom
86 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  18:06:19  Show Profile Send Tremaine a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Umm can I pick the House of serpents I know only two books have come out so far but if the third book is as good as for the first two I be really happy

If not can I have the Finder Stone Trilogy Excellent fun read
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Pipers Youth
Acolyte

11 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  21:32:44  Show Profile  Visit Pipers Youth's Homepage Send Pipers Youth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Warning: Spoilers!!!

The reason why I liked the Hunter's Blade Trilogy is mostly because Drizzt yet again questions himself and his feelings. What kind of relationship between Catti-brie and himself have? Would they one day sire a child? Surly a half-drow child would be scorned and rejected wherever she or he went in the Realms. And even after Catti-brie dies from old age, Drizzt would live in for many years yet to come.

And then suddenly everything he cherishes is taken away from him, when he comes to the conclusion that his friends have died, buried under the rubble of a village they were protecting from orcs.

This leaves Drizzt wandering, on a soul search. This spiritual journey is overwhelmed with some many emotions. He is full of anger for the deaths of his friends, and seeks revenge. Yet is saddened by their deaths, and wishes he could have been there, to die fighting by their sides. Drizzt is such an in depth character, and this is what makes the story so superb.

Of course I did like other things. Like the unexpected allegiance between Obould many Arrows, and Gerti of the Frost giants, to conquer the lands. I loved the epic battle between the orcs, and the dwarves of Mithral Hall.

And how the leaders of the Silver Marches united to overthrow them. It was great how Bob introduced Alustriel, High Lady of Silverymoon into the book.

Once again, RA Salvatore has delivered, and I wish to see many more adventures of Drizzt Do'Urden and friends in the future.

"I...I truly wish Vangerdahast was still irritating half of Cormyr by running things in his usual capable fashion. He'd handle things so much better than I do."

-Caladnei, Mage Royal

Edited by - Pipers Youth on 03 Aug 2005 21:36:10
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 03 Aug 2005 :  23:22:11  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pipers Youth

Warning: Spoilers!!!

The reason why I liked the Hunter's Blade Trilogy is mostly because Drizzt yet again questions himself and his feelings.


This is the same thing that irritates a lot of us. Every single book, he's asking himself these same questions and trying to deal with the pain of being an outcast drow on the surface. It just gets old, after a while.

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Pipers Youth
Acolyte

11 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  01:16:25  Show Profile  Visit Pipers Youth's Homepage Send Pipers Youth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well isn't the whole plot of the story about Drizzt Do'Urden, and his challenges in life? And actually earlier Drizzt has come to terms, and now understands why he is an outcast. Humans fear drow, and drow think he's a traitor. As long as drow are the cruel sentient beings there race is known for, it will always be this way. Drizzt can only hope that may change one day.

We all some time or another ask questions, and overcome them. I believe this is what makes it so interesting. Seeing a person overcome their problems in life.

In my opionion all the elements the author used in these books, made for a great read.

"I...I truly wish Vangerdahast was still irritating half of Cormyr by running things in his usual capable fashion. He'd handle things so much better than I do."

-Caladnei, Mage Royal
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  03:27:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pipers Youth

Well isn't the whole plot of the story about Drizzt Do'Urden, and his challenges in life? And actually earlier Drizzt has come to terms, and now understands why he is an outcast. Humans fear drow, and drow think he's a traitor. As long as drow are the cruel sentient beings there race is known for, it will always be this way. Drizzt can only hope that may change one day.

We all some time or another ask questions, and overcome them. I believe this is what makes it so interesting. Seeing a person overcome their problems in life.

In my opionion all the elements the author used in these books, made for a great read.



Yes, it is part of the story... But most of us got the point about a dozen books ago.

Characters growing thru adversity is a great thing. But when the character himself keeps harping on the adversity, it becomes a constant "Oh, woe is me!" schtick.

It would be a lot more effective to me if we didn't have those essays from Drizzt. I'd rather see him encounter and work thru the adversity, and then get on with his life, rather than encounter adversity, work thru it, and then write about how much it sucks to be him.

Anyway, we're in danger of threadjacking this topic, again. If you want to discuss this issue further, then we should create another thread specifically for that purpose. But, since this is also all a matter of opinion, mayhaps we'd be wiser to simply let it lie.

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Xysma
Master of Realmslore

USA
1089 Posts

Posted - 04 Aug 2005 :  04:09:53  Show Profile  Visit Xysma's Homepage Send Xysma a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

A friend trying to get me to read R. A. Salvatore's works lent me an audio-recording of Legacy once, and ever since I fell asleep listening to that (And no, I'm not making this up to have a dig at Bob, it really happened), I've focused my Realms-reading on books by other writers.



A bit off topic, but I wanted to put my two cents' worth in. Audio books can be a poor representation of the author's work. For instance, William Gibson is one of my all time favorite authors, and I loved Idoru, but I couldn't get through the audio book without falling asleep. On the other hand, I am a big fan of William S. Burroughs, and the audio recordings of him reading his work are phenomenal, specifically Naked Lunch, which I have read only once, but have listened to at least 20 times.

Back on topic, I agree that the Finder's Stone trilogy is a must, and Elaine Cunningham's Counselors and Kings trilogy is my personal favorite.

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quajack
Seeker

86 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2005 :  02:09:23  Show Profile  Visit quajack's Homepage Send quajack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would really be interested in hearing peoples', (who have read it), reasons why the Dark Elf Trilogy is not their favorite. I cannot understand how anyone who has read these books does not consider them to be the best in the Realms.

OFF TOPIC: This is my first post here at Candledeep. Since I'm used to frequenting baseball and football message boards, the proper use of grammar is a breath of fresh air. I look forward to corresponding with you all in the future.
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Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe

Germany
253 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2005 :  02:48:57  Show Profile  Visit Dart Ambermoon's Homepage Send Dart Ambermoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why itīs NOT everyoneīs fave? I think the reason is quite simple...everybody has different preferences and thatīs that.*shrugs*
Some lika action-filled fast paced stories, pthers like in-depth character portrayals. Some prefer to reas about warriors, others prefer a rogue or wizard as protagonist. I honestly donīt think there is an objective "truth" about which trilogy should or shouldnīt be best.
Honestly, most of the Realms trilogies are really good.
I also think itīs really difficult to compare some of the trilogies. The style is too different; for example between Realms-shattering events (e.g. Avatar, Threat from the Sea, etc.),local events (Arrabar) or focus on personalities and heroism (e.g. Dark Elf).
I think "favourites" also depend on when you read them (e.g. your first Realms trilogy will always hold a special place in your heart).
I loved the Dark Elf trilogy when I first read it and itīs still a good re-read today. But I could say the same about a lot of other trilogies. I couldnīt even take a pick between trilogies of the same author and be sure of my decision.
I dig the Last Mythal trilogy. I dig the Rogue Dragons trilogy. I dif the Cale trilogy. Do I like them more than the Finderīs Stone, Moonshae, Avatar or Cormyr trilogies? No. Do I like them worse? No. Theyīre just different, but each stand strong in their stories and characters. Sure there were trilogies which I didnīt enjoy as much as others, but I honestly wouldnīt argue with anyone who sees it differently. So, while Iīd agree that the Dark Elf trilogy was good, I would disagree that it was better than most others.
I could criticize a certain trilogy or novel...discuss what I liked/disliked about it. But to compare...I donīt know. It would be as comparing Giogi Wyvernspur and Danilo Thann...or Finder and Bane...Dragons or Liches...you just have to love both.

~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~

Edited by - Dart Ambermoon on 17 Sep 2005 02:50:41
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2005 :  03:01:09  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by quajack

I would really be interested in hearing peoples', (who have read it), reasons why the Dark Elf Trilogy is not their favorite. I cannot understand how anyone who has read these books does not consider them to be the best in the Realms.


It's quite simple: different people have different tastes. What appeals to one person won't necessarily appeal to others...

Myself, I've always been a bit bored with Drizzt. He's just not a compelling character to me, and he doesn't really interest me that much. His perpetual introspection and constant "gosh, it sucks to be a drow on the surface!" wears on the nerves, too.

quote:
Originally posted by quajack

OFF TOPIC: This is my first post here at Candledeep. Since I'm used to frequenting baseball and football message boards, the proper use of grammar is a breath of fresh air. I look forward to corresponding with you all in the future.



Welcome to Candlekeep!

Feel free to ask any questions you may have... A lot of us have been Realms fans for years, and we know a thing or three about the setting. Plus, we've got some of the authors and creators here!

As for the rest of us, we are friendly, mostly harmless, and occasionally strange... Enjoy your stay!

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