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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2010 :  10:15:34  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edappel

Szass Tam after reading The Haunted Lands... Such a good plot.



i like tam, too. he's role in the haunted lands made me like him even more. he's second on my list. telamont will still be first. i wonder why wotc has not yet made a project (a trilogy or a six-part series like the war of the spider queen) showcasing 2 or 3 of the realms' most formidable villains fighting each other.

Every beginning has an end.
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2010 :  12:54:35  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for Kymil Nimesin, although Elaith comes a close second. I just love elves and they are both great examples of Fair Folk gone evil... they still retain their intelligence, culture and knowledge and make great BBEGs or just villains.

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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swifty
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
517 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2010 :  16:57:24  Show Profile  Visit swifty's Homepage Send swifty a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i dont really consider elaith a villain any more.

go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS.
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2010 :  17:55:55  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The greatest villain ever is now the secret one in my campaign...

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Copper Elven Vampire
Senior Scribe

374 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2010 :  21:57:00  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ghost!!! Ghost from The Cleric Quintet. You gotta admit, he was friggen' wicked!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2010 :  01:07:46  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He ain't bad as an Iron Man villain either!

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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2010 :  04:31:12  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Telamont!

Every beginning has an end.
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe

Kazakhstan
588 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2010 :  21:27:24  Show Profile  Visit Sill Alias's Homepage Send Sill Alias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Personally I liked Barjin from Cleric's Quintet. He was evil, intelligent, cunning, manipulative and pretty capable, he also had taste. He could easily make coup d'etat if he would be victorious. A shame he died from backstabbing wizard's trick. He awakened my interest in playing evil clerics. The hunter from Drizzt's novel who hounded the Drizzt also was incredibly evil and ruthless for just vengeance driven man. But Barjin is on my first place.

You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias

"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.

Edited by - Sill Alias on 05 Jun 2010 21:29:10
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2010 :  18:23:48  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias

Personally I liked Barjin from Cleric's Quintet. He was evil, intelligent, cunning, manipulative and pretty capable, he also had taste. He could easily make coup d'etat if he would be victorious. A shame he died from backstabbing wizard's trick. He awakened my interest in playing evil clerics. The hunter from Drizzt's novel who hounded the Drizzt also was incredibly evil and ruthless for just vengeance driven man. But Barjin is on my first place.



What hunter? Zaknafein as zin-carla or Artemis Entreri?

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Dracons
Learned Scribe

USA
299 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2010 :  00:05:12  Show Profile  Visit Dracons's Homepage  Send Dracons a Yahoo! Message Send Dracons a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZireaelWhat hunter? Zaknafein as zin-carla or Artemis Entreri?



... Uh... Nether. The only venegence driven hunter was Roddy McGristle. Was uttery convienced that Dritz was evil. Plus took his eye. Killed his dog. Even though Drittz was defending himself every time.

I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi.
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe

Kazakhstan
588 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2010 :  05:31:19  Show Profile  Visit Sill Alias's Homepage Send Sill Alias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep, the way he killed the elf ranger, the pilgrims and even the evil pixie really grossed me out.

You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias

"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe

Australia
222 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2010 :  09:43:17  Show Profile  Visit Talwyn's Homepage Send Talwyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I choose Cyric.

Madder than a bag of hammers yet he's able to murder gods, manipulate others into acts they'd not normally entreat.

Yep, he's the Joker of the Realms.

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett

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Talwyn
Learned Scribe

Australia
222 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2010 :  09:44:40  Show Profile  Visit Talwyn's Homepage Send Talwyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I didn't read the last 6 scrolls and it may have already been asked, but why wasn't Jon Irenicus on the list?

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett

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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2010 :  14:46:50  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Edit option, anyone?
I read most of this scroll and I think it was not asked. On that note, Sarevok springs to mind too.

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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skychrome
Senior Scribe

713 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2010 :  19:23:35  Show Profile  Visit skychrome's Homepage Send skychrome a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess that's because computer game chars are out of canon.

"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
892 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2010 :  19:50:44  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought that events from Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 were made canon (such as the plague from neverwinter nights). In that case, Irenecus would be canon too. Still, his actions were limited to a single attempt to become a god (which failed) thus he should not be considered as the GREATEST villain ever, IMO. He sure was cool though.

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2010 :  00:24:29  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan

I thought that events from Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 were made canon (such as the plague from neverwinter nights). In that case, Irenecus would be canon too. Still, his actions were limited to a single attempt to become a god (which failed) thus he should not be considered as the GREATEST villain ever, IMO. He sure was cool though.

Some elements of the CRPG's can be considered canon, like the Bhaalspawn for example [since they've been detailed in the Realmslore]. However, because the games actually contain mulitple outcomes, they can't properly be considered canon themselves.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe

Kazakhstan
588 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2010 :  07:12:16  Show Profile  Visit Sill Alias's Homepage Send Sill Alias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep, Irenicus failed, but unlike Karsus Avatar it could work just fine, even if it destroyed nature in the region. He is cool, strong and evil, being an elf. Never thought that someone so masculine could be a great spellcaster. I bet he would be sorcerer in 3.x ed. I have not read the novel, but I think he is cool and that was not changed.

You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias

"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2010 :  09:47:01  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias

Yep, Irenicus failed, but unlike Karsus Avatar it could work just fine, even if it destroyed nature in the region. He is cool, strong and evil, being an elf. Never thought that someone so masculine could be a great spellcaster. I bet he would be sorcerer in 3.x ed. I have not read the novel, but I think he is cool and that was not changed.



I made Irenicus a 19th level sorcerer in the version I did for my friends.
Back on topic: Manshoon is great too. For some reason I never liked Fzoul.

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Sandro
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
266 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2010 :  10:29:21  Show Profile  Click to see Sandro's MSN Messenger address Send Sandro a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias

Yep, Irenicus failed, but unlike Karsus Avatar it could work just fine, even if it destroyed nature in the region. He is cool, strong and evil, being an elf. Never thought that someone so masculine could be a great spellcaster. I bet he would be sorcerer in 3.x ed. I have not read the novel, but I think he is cool and that was not changed.


On the subject of Karsus's avatar, I've always believed that only the choice of God doomed Karsus. The spell was a success, the sudden need to control the weave was not. Had Karsus a little less hubris and settled for a lesser god, I imagine he would've been able to figure it out and exist quite happily as perhaps even a different greater deity. All could have beens, of course, but still tantalizing thoughts about a world with a power-crazed Netherse arcanist as a god.

As for villains, I've always had a soft spot for Manshoon. The Zhents may be a little bit incompetent, but their Lord Most High (great title) is anything but.

"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..."
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R0GUE
Seeker

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2010 :  00:48:09  Show Profile  Visit R0GUE's Homepage  Send R0GUE an ICQ Message  Click to see R0GUE's MSN Messenger address Send R0GUE a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A tough one here between Elaith and Artemis. I went with Elaith, because I love Elaine Cunningham's books so much.

You have had your pocket pilfered by the R0GUE.
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
892 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2010 :  01:13:31  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sandro

quote:
Originally posted by Sill Alias

Yep, Irenicus failed, but unlike Karsus Avatar it could work just fine, even if it destroyed nature in the region. He is cool, strong and evil, being an elf. Never thought that someone so masculine could be a great spellcaster. I bet he would be sorcerer in 3.x ed. I have not read the novel, but I think he is cool and that was not changed.


On the subject of Karsus's avatar, I've always believed that only the choice of God doomed Karsus. The spell was a success, the sudden need to control the weave was not. Had Karsus a little less hubris and settled for a lesser god, I imagine he would've been able to figure it out and exist quite happily as perhaps even a different greater deity. All could have beens, of course, but still tantalizing thoughts about a world with a power-crazed Netherse arcanist as a god.

As for villains, I've always had a soft spot for Manshoon. The Zhents may be a little bit incompetent, but their Lord Most High (great title) is anything but.



I always wondered what might have happened had Karsus used his spell on Tempus, or Tyr, with no complex power like the weave to suddenly control. I guess that for one, Mystrul wouldn't have died, the cities wouldn't have crashed and the worst that could have happenned would have been Karsus exploding (or imploding). Or yeah, that god might have died too.

But if it did worked... Epic Tenser's Transformation ++

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe

Australia
222 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2010 :  08:51:08  Show Profile  Visit Talwyn's Homepage Send Talwyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Some elements of the CRPG's can be considered canon, like the Bhaalspawn for example [since they've been detailed in the Realmslore]. However, because the games actually contain mulitple outcomes, they can't properly be considered canon themselves.



Are the novelised books of the BG tales then not considered as canon?

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett

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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe

Kazakhstan
588 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2010 :  10:57:03  Show Profile  Visit Sill Alias's Homepage Send Sill Alias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Official novel is considered canonic. All other not. Damn it, why the protagonist is fighter?!

You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias

"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Talwyn
Learned Scribe

Australia
222 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2010 :  05:18:49  Show Profile  Visit Talwyn's Homepage Send Talwyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I suppose the protagonist was a fighter for a couple of reasons.

Sarevok, the first boss villian was a fighter and become extremely powerful. Also, despite clerics and mages having access to some really nasty killing spells, once a fighter gets into melee range, its pretty hard to keep on casting spells if you are being stabbed with a sword [concentration DC] Fighters are able to dish out and take the punishment...become "killing machines" which is sort of what the Bhaalspawn Slayer incarnation was.

I think as well a fighter is probably the easiest character to write a POV and for the readers to understand.

Anyhow, I thought as much that the novels were canon.

I didn't really enjoy them much to be honest. They were too bleak with all the companions being killed along the way. Its hard to cheer and feel an empathy for the protagonist when at the end, he's left standing alone and a line of bodies stretches out behind him. Yes I know he is the son of the Lord of Murder... but IMO, it should have gone a different way.

My take on it would be to chronicle the character I played, Talwyn , a paladin of Torm. Now that is a good conflict story right there, prodigal son if there ever was. Also a more in depth examination of the whole nature vs nuture argument could have been delved into.

Meh...

it won't happen but I think that might have made a more intriguing story.

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on.
Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun.
EAT LEADEN DEATH DEMON!
Terry Pratchett

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