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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Dec 2007 : 20:04:06
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I don't know about you guys, but I loved reading about Fzoul and Xvim during their short reign together, between the times when Bane went away and when he was ressurected.
So I'd have to go with Fzoul during that period as my most favorite villian. As far as most powerful? Don't know actually. There's been dozens of significant villians in Faerun, each is unique and had their impact on the Realms, and probably alot that I don't know about at all.  |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, he will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who celebrate after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, Id be wondering: Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE youre adventurers? -Ed Greenwood
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Edited by - Mazrim_Taim on 26 Dec 2007 20:06:50 |
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Zarithar
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2008 : 16:08:11
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| Jaraxle is not exactly a "villain" and Artemis Entreri definately deserves his own space rather than to be lumped in with Jaraxle. It's only relatively recently that the two became associates. That being said, I voted for Entreri! |
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Slaygrim
Learned Scribe
111 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2008 : 17:40:35
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Absolutely LOVED Artemis Entreri in Streams of Silver and The Halflings Gem. Very cool villain.
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Watch my gorgeous wife sing at:
www.youtube.com/Airicx |
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Neo2151
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2008 : 07:51:32
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For impact on the realms? Telemont by far. (Tele's actually evil, Karsus was a combination of crazy and trying to do what was best for his realm).
For most cunning? Manshoon. This guy is up to so much trouble it makes my head spin. And it makes me cry to think that Ed hasn't written it because his publishers won't let him play with the Zhentarim like he wants to :( It also makes me sad that most of the time you see him pop up in the novels, he's dealing with someone he can't quite handle. Elminster and Shandril are perfect examples here. His obvious better, and an angry-as-hell spellfire weilder? Ya, c'mon, that just makes him look too underwhelming.
For my favorite, we have to add Larloch to the list. One of the most powerful casters still around. A bit crazy but when you live that long without the divine shielding your mind, it happens. And I think his plans for gaining control over Toril's portals is ingenious! I love the guy and wish there was more out there about him. |
"Come looking for me, and I will blast you to dust, and then lay waste to all your descendants, ancestors, and the realm you came from, every last tree and stone of it. Why? Well, it's what I usually do."
-Baerendra Riverhand on The Story of Spellfire |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2008 : 19:59:25
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| There isn't enough out there written about him (or maybe I just haven't found it), but I think Fzoul is one of the most chilling villains in the realms. He is power-hungry and sadistic and I think his character is a lot deeper than that shown in the Avatar trilogy. |
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Tabardad
Acolyte
Canada
7 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2008 : 21:35:46
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Anyone have any thoughts on the deceased Matron Baenre? :)
She was pretty depraved, and no one has mentioned her yet. lol |
Whoa! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2008 : 21:50:14
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Nobody thought the Great Khan was evil?
I know they washed him out entirely too easily in the novels; but this guy thought nothing of torching entire cities...
Pretty powerful and evil in my book.
If I had to pick the current most evil baddie in FR though:
Emporer Shoon |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 07 Dec 2008 21:51:24 |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 01:52:06
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SOJOURN SPOILER!!!!
I really liked the villain from Sojourn - Roddy McGristle. I was hoping he would return later on...guess there's not much chance of there NOW, is there? :( |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Thalos_Milathriel
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 04:44:36
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| Vhostym "The Sojourner" from the Erevis Cale books would have to be near the top for me. Technically I think he's neutral, but any neutrality that would allow one to rationalize destroying all of Toril is evil in my book. And he came very close to suceeding, which would have been only a slightly worse fate for Faerūn than the recent 4E revisions in my opinion. At least it would have gone out in a blaze of glory. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 06:56:17
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Yeah Vhostym was pretty incredible. In particular I loved the moment where his number of non-verbal spells ran out and suddenly...he was beatable.
Also, I think he was definitely the most callous villain the Realms ever produced. What a fantastically selfish motivation! |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 15:35:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Nobody thought the Great Khan was evil?
I know they washed him out entirely too easily in the novels; but this guy thought nothing of torching entire cities...
-Yamun was not evil, no. He believed it was his destiny, shown to him by Teylas (Akadi) to do what he did. He's no more evil than, say, the Pope. Yamun was no priest, but the religious connection is there. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 17:04:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Nobody thought the Great Khan was evil?
I know they washed him out entirely too easily in the novels; but this guy thought nothing of torching entire cities...
-Yamun was not evil, no. He believed it was his destiny, shown to him by Teylas (Akadi) to do what he did. He's no more evil than, say, the Pope. Yamun was no priest, but the religious connection is there.
I don't know that I can agree with that. Being willing to murder multiple people (sometimes in large numbers) in pursuit of a personal goal is pretty much a definition of evil. I'd call him NE, myself. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 17:44:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't know that I can agree with that. Being willing to murder multiple people (sometimes in large numbers) in pursuit of a personal goal is pretty much a definition of evil. I'd call him NE, myself.
-This is where D&D alignment fails. Culturally speaking, those European Crusaders were convinced that they were fighting the good fight, and doing G-d's will. Various Kings, Queens, and Pope's supported them, and told them they were doing good things, doing G-d's will, killing people. Likewise, all of those Jihadists and suicide bombers are convinced that they are doing G-d's will, killing themselves and other innocent people on buses, in marketplaces, and in cafes. Can you really be evil if you are taught to believe something is good? Would a Muslim family that practices honor killings be good or bad (killing)? Is a Jewish family that practices circumcision be good or bad (mutilation)? Is a Christian family that "does the Lord's work" by blowing up abortion clinics good or bad (killing/destruction)? It's all a matter of point of view.
-Good and evil aren't objective concepts. D&D has Negative Energy and Positive Energy as objective things, but good and evil are not. Yamun was taught to be the "Lord of the Steppes", and was told that Teylas was blessing him and telling him to conquer Kara-Tur and Faerūn. From his point of view, I don't think he saw any of that as evil. He believed that he was empowered by Teylas to do so. He was simply carrying out the will of the deities. He was simply doing what the deities commanded. He was simply doing what needed to be done. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 18:05:27
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I disagree. I don't think intent is the only component of an alignment. If you do bad things to others with the goal of benefitting yourself, that's evil.
It's not something that falls neatly into a black/white scale. But wrong is wrong... So it doesn't matter if he believed it was his destiny, or if he was just following orders, or what. The end result: a whole lot of people died to give him what he wanted for himself. That's evil.
Now, if his intent would have been freeing his people from oppression, then that would have been another story. But Hoekun Yamun Khahan was looking out for number 1, and his people second -- they were the tools for his goal more than they were the beneficiaries of it. Conquest was unnecessary and served no goal other than stroking his ego.
I'd respond more specifically to some of your points, but that's getting into real world issues, which we try to avoid here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 18:16:01
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-Wrong is not wrong. What is wrong somewhere is not wrong elsewhere. There is no such thing as an objective wrong. That is what is inherently flawed about D&D's alignment system. There is no such thing as an objective concept of 'wrong' to govern things. There are only various subjective concepts of wrong, some of which are more prevalent than others. There are societies in which murder, rape, stealing, these things are not looked at with scorn.
-This has all be discussed so many other times, in so many other places. No point beating a dead horse, I guess. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 08 Dec 2008 18:31:04 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 18:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-This has all be discussed so many other times, in so many other places. No point beating a dead horse, I guess.
Truth. I guess this is yet another thing on which you and I agree to disagree.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 18:42:07
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Sorry, Dag, I'm with Wooly on this one. I was raised Christian, and I think that that the people bombing abortion clinics and planned parenthood is wrong. I also believe that the death penalty is wrong no matter what the crime.
Granted, there are societies where things like that are not considered wrong, but the alignment system and good and evil in general are personal convictions. I hate to say it (really, I do), but the perfect example is Drizzt. He comes from a society where what you are saying are completely normal. What you are talking about is not Good/Evil but Outcast/Aspirant to the culture.
Societies where murder, rape, etc are not looked upon with scorn are usually doomed to be subsumed into other cultures. Even then, those cultures usually act in that nature to other cultures. The 'we're better than them' outlook, as it were. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 19:25:16
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| Sorry, but he's listed as LE and that alignment, to me, makes perfect sense for the things he did. So yeah, again, to me Yamun is evil. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Grayson Haeldreth
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 21:16:29
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I think Yamun may have been given too much similarity with our worlds big Khan...and that dude WAS evil.
The easiest way to say if Yamun is evil or not is how he is written in the history books! Since those books are no doubt written by the Shou and folks of Faerun proper, there is little doubt in my mind that Yamun is considered evil by all those people.
I mentioned him because he is one of the only folks to ever have a huge influence on both Faerun and Kara-Tur...but it was seemingly so temporary and faded quickly; almost like the folks that brought him on the stage wished that they hadn't.
Had he been used the "right" way, no doubt many more people would think him some Steppe Demon instead of a brief mention in the history of the world.
EDIT: hehehe...didn't realize I was on my role-playing profile LOL (Dalor here!) |
"Can I tell you a story lad?" |
Edited by - Grayson Haeldreth on 08 Dec 2008 21:30:56 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2008 : 23:12:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Sorry, but he's listed as LE and that alignment, to me, makes perfect sense for the things he did. So yeah, again, to me Yamun is evil.
I'm inclined to agree. While Yamaun certainly displayed some lawful-tendencies, he was evil in the classic sense of the term -- or rather, in terms of how most lawful-societies in the Realms would tend to view such alignments.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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edappel
Learned Scribe
Brazil
211 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2009 : 20:43:00
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| Szass Tam after reading The Haunted Lands... Such a good plot. |
--- Ed Appel
*** I'm a brazilian FR fan. So, feel free to correct my writing mistakes to improve my english. |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 21:41:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Likeable villian award goes to Elaith
Evil and depraived villian award goes to Neb the Child killer
any lore on neb the child killer.never heard of him. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2009 : 23:48:32
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
any lore on neb the child killer.never heard of him.
Neb is a NPC from the Baldur's Gate computer game series. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2009 : 02:10:50
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| Ummm... hello... Larloch? Only possible answer to this question. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2009 : 02:17:26
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| Hmm... I am not sure if I would consider Larloch really a villain. After all he is not looking for conquest but simply wants to be left alone to improve his studies. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Auzoros
Seeker
Australia
97 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 10:25:19
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Manshoon!! He may not be the greatest but he is certainly my favourite. He has always held my imagination ever since I read Spellfire and read about the Zhentarim in the source books. I just wish a whole novel or trilogy was written about him.
There is so much material to work on...his adventuring days with his brother Asmuth, and Chess, the founding of the Zhentarim, his role as leader of the Zhentarim, not to mention the Manshoon Wars.
IMO there isn't enough good reading about Manshoon. *sigh* 
(begging) please, oh pretty please could one of our fine writters put Manshoon in the limelight? Ed? Doug? Paul? Elaine? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 11:53:38
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| There's quite a bit of Manshoon in Ed's Knights trilogy. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 15:18:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
There's quite a bit of Manshoon in Ed's Knights trilogy.
Indeed.
In fact, one of my most favourite scenes in the trilogy features a standoff between Manshoon, Elminster, Khelben, and poor old Vangy.
Good stuff!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Auzoros
Seeker
Australia
97 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 18:35:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
There's quite a bit of Manshoon in Ed's Knights trilogy.
Im intent on buying those books. If Sage speaks highly of them (and I know he's a Manshoon fan too ), then I can't wait to read them. |
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The Greatest Villain Ever
