Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 is jarlaxle good or evil?
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 11

Ardashir
Senior Scribe

USA
544 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2008 :  00:43:46  Show Profile  Visit Ardashir's Homepage Send Ardashir a Private Message
Truthfully, in some ways Jarlaxle strikes me as an evil drow version of Captain Jack Sparrow. The same resourcefullness and ability to get you into a total mess that will beenfit him and him alone with just a few 'innocent' words.
Go to Top of Page

Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2905 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2008 :  20:05:56  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by thomas b.

the notorious mercenary from the darkelf trilogy.he is cunning and devious.although some of his actions leave you questioning his alighnment.is he good.or perhaps he is a follower of vhearun.i would like to know your opinions on this.


-I voted Evil, plus I really can't stand thec munchkin.


BRIMSTONE

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
Go to Top of Page

draco
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2008 :  08:14:02  Show Profile  Visit draco's Homepage Send draco a Private Message
i hope im not dredging up old posts apologies if so

ive noticed alot of quoting from "official" sources and the thing with anything official its still just one or two people and just because its official doesnt mean its correct

i think jarlaxle is chaotic neutral neutral because hes a very free minded person and he will do "whatever" it takes to keep his freedom which is where the chaotic part fits in if it would serve his purposes i think he would stab his own mother in the back which would seem an evil act

and the fact that he let artemis, drizzt and catibrie go free doesn't mean hes good obviosly he can see they have qualities that he could use at some point and jarlaxle always has atleast 1 backup plan
Go to Top of Page

arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
313 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2008 :  11:48:13  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message
Is Jarlaxle good or evil? Yes
Go to Top of Page

Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2008 :  15:23:23  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by draco
ive noticed alot of quoting from "official" sources and the thing with anything official its still just one or two people and just because its official doesnt mean its correct



No, but in this case the official sources are pretty consistent.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2008 :  15:59:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by draco

ive noticed alot of quoting from "official" sources and the thing with anything official its still just one or two people and just because its official doesnt mean its correct


Um, actually, when the publisher of a character makes consistent official statements about that character, it is correct. Just because you don't agree doesn't make the company wrong.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2008 :  23:29:08  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by draco

i hope im not dredging up old posts apologies if so

ive noticed alot of quoting from "official" sources and the thing with anything official its still just one or two people and just because its official doesnt mean its correct
If it's information that they've worked into canon, then it's correct and official in terms of the setting.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2885 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2008 :  16:01:34  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by arry

Is Jarlaxle good or evil? Yes



-This most accurately sums up the situation.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page

Genis
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2008 :  10:52:20  Show Profile  Visit Genis's Homepage Send Genis a Private Message
Even tho they say what it is and i suppose "they" are correct...I think it is implied that he is somewhat good or whatever, like the jack sparrow analogy, he is evil...yet good. so even tho they have to choose him as having whatver alignment they said, i think he is "better" then they say, because of what the books imply. and since it is more or less implied that he is good or at least not as evil as he acts, they can't official say he is goodish because it is just still only implied...or rather something along those lines...maybe...its like 4 a.m....i tried my best.
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2008 :  14:49:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Genis

Even tho they say what it is and i suppose "they" are correct...I think it is implied that he is somewhat good or whatever, like the jack sparrow analogy, he is evil...yet good. so even tho they have to choose him as having whatver alignment they said, i think he is "better" then they say, because of what the books imply. and since it is more or less implied that he is good or at least not as evil as he acts, they can't official say he is goodish because it is just still only implied...or rather something along those lines...maybe...its like 4 a.m....i tried my best.



I honestly don't think it's implied that he's good.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

BEAST
Master of Realmslore

USA
1714 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2008 :  19:21:22  Show Profile  Visit BEAST's Homepage Send BEAST a Private Message
I don't play the game or know the game vernacular, but it seems to me that Jar is in no way good. He's an evil suckah. He's completely in this for himself, no matter the consequences to others: the classic opportunist.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because some of his antics happen to be of benefit to the occasional goodly fella, therefore he must be a goodly fella, himself. That's a complete coinkidink. He doesn't do what he does because it will benefit others--he does it because he thinks that it will in some way benefit himself, either presently, or down the road some time.

[The Pirate King spoiler] In this most recent book by RAS, Jar repeatedly postures as a neutral party during a conflict in Luskan. But his fingerprints are all over everything. He goads characters into doing bad things, secures supplies for local villains, and prevents other characters from succeeding with goodly tasks, only to feign neutrality, or even good will. Scoundrels are afforded the stoneskin spell, rendering them impervious to goodly blades, leading to the death of a near-paladin of the high seas (Deudermont), and apparently to yet another "death" of a certain drow ranger. When called out on it, Jar backtracks only a step, without missing a beat, grinning and winking all the while, and casually returns to spinning his web of lies on and on. With all of his bases covered, Jarlaxle frustrates Drizzt into throwing his hands in the air, giving up, and moving on. [/spoiler]

If a dapper guy gives a girl flowers and chocolates with a smile on his face and a purr flowing from his lips, it's not necessarily because he's a thoughtful, generous fellow. Chances are, he's got something else a little less proper on his mind...

Same deal here. You have to always read between the lines, with Jarlaxle (even though his vision is probably enhanced to an even greater accuity than your own). Entreri once had a short story about strategizing to "the third level"; with Jar, you bettah try to think past that, even, 'cause you know he will.

"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)

<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works">
Go to Top of Page

sfdragon
Great Reader

2047 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2008 :  00:04:54  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
to every other pc and npc
Jarlaxe is an opportunistic , if he can get something out of it,

he is chaotic, but i can say.
Jarlaxle is Jarlaxle

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
Go to Top of Page

Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2008 :  14:03:56  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I honestly don't think it's implied that he's good.



And, if they are trying to imply that, they have an odd, convoluted way of doing that.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
Go to Top of Page

Genis
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2008 :  09:36:57  Show Profile  Visit Genis's Homepage Send Genis a Private Message
Not like straight up Saint good but occasionally it shows a different side of him and implies that he geniunely cares for Entreri or about his feelings and etc etc blah blah blah...so not like good but one of those things like it gives you a little to make you think hey....he might not be that bad of a guy.
Go to Top of Page

Ghost King
Learned Scribe

USA
253 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2008 :  12:33:58  Show Profile  Visit Ghost King's Homepage Send Ghost King a Private Message
Just cause you're evil doesn't mean you don't have people you like and are kind to (being kind after all isn't staple of being good, just like being a jerk doesn't mean you're evil either). Jar is a drow and like most drow is evil and out for himself and so is his assassin friend. They get along and might possibly be great friends, but that doesn't necessarily mean they both aren't evil in general. Remember, only beings of the cosmos (deities, entities, etc) are completely and utterly evil. Mortals always have a touch of grey to whatever cause or ideal they dedicate themselves too. While people are good they do have a dark side and same goes for evil characters having a light side. Sounds like Entreri and Jar are just friends out of respect for each others abilities and cunning, not out of kindness or caring, but then again I haven't read all the books so my opinion is rather mute point. However, all the material I have read, gaming source or novel, is that he is evil, just not Lloth or Bane evil if that makes any sense.

Edited by - Ghost King on 14 Dec 2008 12:34:56
Go to Top of Page

Brynweir
Senior Scribe

USA
436 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2008 :  14:50:46  Show Profile  Send Brynweir an AOL message Send Brynweir a Private Message
I voted for CN before, but I have actually changed my mind (BIG surprise ) and now agree that Jarlaxle is evil- NE?. Goods deeds do not necessarily make one good, just as an evil deed doesn't necessarily make one evil. I think that motivation is a key factor and Jarlaxle is always looking out for number one. At the moment, Entreri may make his life more interesting and they do have mutual respect for each others' cunning and skill. I have no doubt, however, that Jarlaxle would throw him to the wolves if necessary to save his own skin.

Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D

He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.

Go to Top of Page

ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2008 :  19:50:33  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir

I voted for CN before, but I have actually changed my mind (BIG surprise ) and now agree that Jarlaxle is evil- NE?. Goods deeds do not necessarily make one good, just as an evil deed doesn't necessarily make one evil. I think that motivation is a key factor and Jarlaxle is always looking out for number one. At the moment, Entreri may make his life more interesting and they do have mutual respect for each others' cunning and skill. I have no doubt, however, that Jarlaxle would throw him to the wolves if necessary to save his own skin.


I think that Jarlaxle does look out primarily for himself, but the neutral alignment is defined as someone who looks out for themself and maybe a few loved ones. What makes it fall into evil is when people go beyond self-preservation and into exploitation of others. It could be argued either way for Jarlaxle because of the society he grew up in. The things he does are necessary for his survival, so a case could be made that he is neutral. However, if he had grown up in any other society, there would be no question about him being evil.
Go to Top of Page

Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2008 :  14:07:56  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
However, if he had grown up in any other society, there would be no question about him being evil.



Actually, there's still no question about him being evil, as every source that gives his alignment gives it as evil.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
Go to Top of Page

ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2008 :  16:50:50  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message
I would say that there is a question about his alignment if you consider the discussion in this thread. I know that he is listed as evil in the books, but there are some subtleties that can't really be communicated by assigning an alignment. I think in assigning his alignment, they were looking at black-and-white rules of morality. I'm not normally an advocate for moral ambiguity, but in the realms, there is a little ambiguity about what is right and wrong. People kill, but sometimes it is considered an act of good. I'm not saying that Jarlaxle isn't evil, but I think he could also be neutral and it would fit pretty well with the way he is portrayed.
Go to Top of Page

Mouse
Seeker

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2008 :  09:03:18  Show Profile  Visit Mouse's Homepage Send Mouse a Private Message
Jarlaxle's one of those characters who makes the Alingment system look a little silly just by being around. He's evidently self-serving, to the point of being evil, seems to not feel really sorry for anything he ever does or anyone else for that matter (maybe a hint of remorse, but never any regrets), and is totally vain....but evil? I dunno. He saves people, but only if they're useful, doesn't kill folks, but only because he doesn't see a need to, lots of contradictory examples like that.
I think he'd be just plain Neutral: everything to him in absolute moral relativity, so he just looks after himself, but tries to help friends if he feels like it.

"Barbarians are more polite then civilized men, for civilized men know they may be rude to another without having their skulls cleaved open as a general thing."
-Conan
Go to Top of Page

Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3074 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2008 :  13:38:37  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
From the Player's Handbook (3rd Edition)

quote:
Good characters and creatures protect innocent life. Evil characters and creatures debase or destroy innocent life, whether for fun or profit.
“Good” implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.
“Evil” implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.
People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships. A neutral person may sacrifice himself to protect his family or even his homeland, but he would not do so for strangers who are not related to him.
Being good or evil can be a conscious choice, as with the paladin who attempts to live up to her ideals or the evil cleric who causes pain and terror to emulate his god. For most people, though, being good or evil is an attitude that one recognizes but does not choose.
Being neutral on the good–evil axis usually represents a lack of commitment one way or the other, but for some it represents a positive commitment to a balanced view. While acknowledging that good and evil are objective states, not just opinions, these folk maintain that a balance between the two is the proper place for people, or at least for them.
Animals and other creatures incapable of moral action are neutral rather than good or evil. Even deadly vipers and tigers that eat people are neutral because they lack the capacity for morally right or wrong behavior.


So, once again, I don't think Artemis is neutral since he wouldn't sacrifice himself for anyone else, if nothing else.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
Go to Top of Page

ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe

USA
292 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2008 :  17:10:59  Show Profile Send ranger_of_the_unicorn_run a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

So, once again, I don't think Artemis is neutral since he wouldn't sacrifice himself for anyone else, if nothing else.


Do you mean Jarlaxle?
Go to Top of Page

Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3074 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2008 :  18:27:56  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run

quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

So, once again, I don't think Artemis is neutral since he wouldn't sacrifice himself for anyone else, if nothing else.


Do you mean Jarlaxle?


Him too...

Jeez, didn't realize how scatterbrained I am today until just now.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
Go to Top of Page

Aulduron
Learned Scribe

USA
342 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2008 :  22:39:25  Show Profile Send Aulduron a Private Message
Jarlaxle is a product of his environment. Now he has a new environment. In Menzoberranzan, if you couldn't convince the Matrons you were evil, you died. He is no longer in Menzoberranzan.

"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"

-Procopio Septus
Go to Top of Page

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
2885 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2008 :  01:55:31  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
-It takes more than a change of scenery to disrupt or completely remove a pattern of behavior ingrained into one since birth.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 11 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000