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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2008 :  18:02:47  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Irish bands of note.

Thin Lizzy. Classic Heavy metal.
Rory Gallagher. The king of Irish blues.
Horselips 70's Irish folk-rock
The Pogues. Great Irish folk-punk
Van Morrison. Needs no introduction.
The Waterboys. 80's folk rock
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30403 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2008 :  19:02:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

An odd parallel between Weird Al and Flogging Molly that I noted when I saw the latter in concert: both use accordians.


I wonder if I can have my next bard use an accordian. Hrm . . . .

Cheers



Yeah, but he'd prolly take a penalty to his Performance checks, because of it. A lot of people don't seem to like that instrument...

Years ago, I saw one of Weird Al's accordians at the Hard Rock Cafe in Orlando. I thought that was most cool.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30403 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2008 :  19:10:48  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

Weird Al...oh yeah, I had White and Nerdy down for your soundtrack along time ago Wooly one!



I really do like that song, though little of it applies to me. For example, I am fluent in neither Javascript nor Klingon, I'm not a Trekkie, and my one attempt to learn Calculus lead to me dropping out of that particular college*.

And I can't recite Holy Grail really well, though I am quite familiar with it.

On the flip side, my rims are quite stationary, and I am handy with a soldering gun.

What gets me the most about that song is that it was a last minute addition to the album, recorded only because James Blunt's record label wouldn't let Weird Al put "You're Pitiful" on the album (which is why, in the video, the Wikipedia page being edited is the one for Atlantic Records). A last minute filler wound up being his most successful song ever.

*It wasn't my failure that caused this... It was just the latest in a string of complaints I had about that school. The prerequisite class didn't help at all, and the class that would have helped wasn't recommended.


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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2008 :  19:16:15  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Yeah, but he'd prolly take a penalty to his Performance checks, because of it. A lot of people don't seem to like that instrument...

Nonsense! I'm sure we could just write the whole musical tradition into the long-standing ancestral heritage of a standard PC race. I'd say gnomes ('cuz it's not like that's ever happened ever ), but they're disqualified anyway (not a PC race anymore). Maybe halflings? Though I think the dragonborn need a racial instrument, right?

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Years ago, I saw one of Weird Al's accordians at the Hard Rock Cafe in Orlando. I thought that was most cool.


That would be.

I've been several times to the Seattle Experience Music Project (music museum), where they have one of Kurt Cobain's tee shirts on display. Isn't all that.

The KISS outfits they have are much more impressive.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3532 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2008 :  21:35:38  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

An odd parallel between Weird Al and Flogging Molly that I noted when I saw the latter in concert: both use accordians.


I wonder if I can have my next bard use an accordian. Hrm . . . .

Cheers



Only if you promise never to call it an accordian and always refer to it as a Squeezebox!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2008 :  21:59:53  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Original posted by Erik Scott de Bie

I wonder if I can have my next bard use an accordian. Hrm . . . .

Only if you promise never to call it an accordian and always refer to it as a Squeezebox!


Only if I can have him refer to it, in an out-RAGE-ous French Ac-CENT, as his "main-SQUEEZE" and fight with it in a two-weapon style, with the instrument in his *left* hand.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)

Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 23 Jul 2008 22:01:18
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  01:15:07  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I really do like that song, though little of it applies to me. For example, I am fluent in neither Javascript nor Klingon, I'm not a Trekkie, and my one attempt to learn Calculus lead to me dropping out of that particular college*.
*The Sage quietly steps into the background... resisting the temptation to make fun of Wooly using a few choice Klingon words derived through JavaScript or throwing in an impossibly difficult Calculus equation for him to solve*

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30403 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  01:47:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I really do like that song, though little of it applies to me. For example, I am fluent in neither Javascript nor Klingon, I'm not a Trekkie, and my one attempt to learn Calculus lead to me dropping out of that particular college*.
*The Sage quietly steps into the background... resisting the temptation to make fun of Wooly using a few choice Klingon words derived through JavaScript or throwing in an impossibly difficult Calculus equation for him to solve*



I'd ignore both of them. It's what I already do with both Klingon and Calculus.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  01:53:00  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hence why I was *resisting* the temptation.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  16:37:04  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So we're mentioning great Irish bands and on-one's mentioned Ash or Stiff Little Fingers, or the Undertones yet? Despicable!! (Okay, so SLF really only did two good songs, and Undertones never managed to recreate the magic of Teenage Kicks, but still). Oh, and Ash's former guitar-player, Charlotte Hatherley has done some outstanding solo work if you can get your hands on it.

And finally, though not Irish, anyone who's even a tiny little bit into the rockier side of folk - check out the Oxford-born liverpudlian Thea Gilmore, currently the world's most underpublicised artist (in relation to level of deserved praise).

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  18:23:28  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So. Here's the question.

(And this discussion applies somewhat to all FR novels that are coming out in the foreseeable future.)

Now I know some of you (Wooly, PDK, others) have some stringent and well-reasoned objections to the Realms of 4e. What I want to know is--that established and respected--how likely are you to read Downshadow, my next novel, which is set in the 4e Realms?

Personally, I think the book works regardless of lore or timeline. Though it's clearly a 4e FR novel and holds true to the 4e lore (at least what I knew/know of it at the time, and it highlights what I like best about it), it's a novel for all Realms-fans, whether they read the classic Realms novels or cut their teeth in 2e like I did, or they jumped on in 3e/3.5e, or they haven't so much as heard of these "Forgotten Realms" until 4e. Like Ghostwalker, it is very much a broad-appeal fantasy adventure rather than setting/edition-specific--as opposed to say, Depths of Madness, which was my most 3.5e mechanical novel. It doesn't make you cop to the 4e FR, either--just like you can read, say, Spellfire without conflicted loyalties regarding 1e.

So. Can you guys be persuaded to check it out even if you've set a firm anti-4e FR stance, or are we just going to be talking about my pre-4e stuff?

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)

Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 24 Jul 2008 20:11:30
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30403 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  19:42:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't want to stop getting novels and such, but I also don't want to support what's been done to my favorite setting.

And my objection isn't about the rules -- it's about the fact that I don't, at this time, recognize the Realms of 4E. 1E, 2E, and 3E all changed things, but the changes were all pretty basic compared to the Sellplague and its effects. As I've said more than once, I could get interested in it all if it was a new setting -- I just can't accept it as the setting I used to love.

I will pick up Downshadow, since it's set in my favorite place in the Realms. I don't know if I'll be reading any other post-Sellplague books, aside from the ones set in Waterdeep.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  20:18:53  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have come to the resigned conclusion that as long as you (pl. the writers of various Realms novels) continue to write excellent fantasy (whether placed in the 4e Realms or not), then I will probably continue to read it. This should not in anyway be considered an endorsement of the 4e Realms, but an endorsement of your (pl) great writing.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  20:36:03  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I don't want to stop getting novels and such, but I also don't want to support what's been done to my favorite setting.

I understand and fully respect your stance. I understand exactly how you feel, and I have felt much the same way in the past about things.

I won't try to be preachy--just to share what I have come to decide about this sort of situation. Take it if you will.

No one likes every change. And with some changes, even MORE people don't like them. But nothing lasts forever--changes do have to happen. And when they do, that's when you've got to make your own choice whether you like them or not. And that's your choice and no one else's.

A big thing as well is that, as we age, new big changes get to be less and less appealing. We settle into things that we really like and want them to stay that way forever. I heard someone say once that you can't have your Drizzt-virginity back, for instance. Once you've read some of RAS's books, you'll never be able to look at his stuff as all-new, all-exciting anymore. Whereas people coming on board right now might go "WOW WOW" over everything, not having had the time to internalize it all.

So it is with the Realms. There's no reason to expect that you or anyone else will get your socks knocked off by all the changes or even some of the changes. It's the kinda thing where you can look them over, decide whether they're for you, and just go on playing/reading whatever edition/setting/etc you like. Or not, as you choose. You're the one making that choice, and no one can or should do it for you.

quote:
As I've said more than once, I could get interested in it all if it was a new setting -- I just can't accept it as the setting I used to love.

This is an interesting point to me. Why is that?

If I understand aright, you're saying that if it was another setting apart from FR--say "Savage Realms"--you'd still be interested in it.

What's stopping you from seeing it that way now? Under that logic, it's like there *is* a new setting, which happens to share a common history with an old, discontinued, much beloved setting.

Not saying that I *want* you to see it that way--just asking why you don't.

quote:
I will pick up Downshadow, since it's set in my favorite place in the Realms. I don't know if I'll be reading any other post-Sellplague books, aside from the ones set in Waterdeep.


Thanks. And I hope--and honestly think--you won't be disappointed. It's clearly a 4e FR book (I mean, the spellplague has happened, they talk about it, etc.), but it's meant to be a *timeless* sort of book you can enjoy even if you don't care for (or violently dislike) the spellplague or any of the other little bits of lore.

I will say that I plumbed the pre-4e Waterdeep materials fairly exactly, and compared notes frequently with Ed on "how XXX works," etc. I hope to hold true to the Waterdeep of Ed and Elaine and Steve and others. (And Ed--as one of the editors for the series and who offers great edits, let me tell you--seemed well pleased.)

Cheers


P.S. NOTE TO ALL: I do not ever want to turn this into a 4e debate thread. We're being cool and calm and respectful, of one another and of the changes to the setting, even if we don't like them.

The instant it turns hostile or we take sarcastic swipes at anyone or anything, including the setting, I'll ask you to remove your post. This is not for censorship reasons, but only because it makes me physically ill to see that sort of negativity. I'll ask that posts be deleted, or I'll just leave. Fair enough?

When I say "sarcastic swipes," I mean things ranging from the obvious to the subtle, like Wooly's borderline term "Sellplague." Which, honestly, I find kinda funny, so it's cool. (No other slurs, though, ok team?)

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)

Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 24 Jul 2008 20:51:22
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  20:49:10  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM

I have come to the resigned conclusion that as long as you (pl. the writers of various Realms novels) continue to write excellent fantasy (whether placed in the 4e Realms or not), then I will probably continue to read it. This should not in anyway be considered an endorsement of the 4e Realms, but an endorsement of your (pl) great writing.


You're a brave man, Hawkins, and I respect you very much for it. Thank you for the chance.

To you and to all, I shall strive my hardest to bring you the very best I can muster. And if it doesn't work for you--if you don't enjoy my books, then please, by all means, don't read them.

Don't read stuff you don't like. Life is too short.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  20:55:19  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

quote:
As I've said more than once, I could get interested in it all if it was a new setting -- I just can't accept it as the setting I used to love.

This is an interesting point to me. Why is that?

If I understand aright, you're saying that if it was another setting apart from FR--say "Savage Realms"--you'd still be interested in it.

What's stopping you from seeing it that way now? Under that logic, it's like there *is* a new setting, which happens to share a common history with an old, discontinued, much beloved setting.
I know for me, and from his other comments I think for Wooly too, is that it looks like a cool campaign setting, but it is so very different from the Realms we know and love and familiar with, that it is offensive to consider it to be the same setting (or even a new setting with a shared history) as the Realms we know and love. It is not change in and of it self, but specifically the number and severity of the changes made to the Realms, that I dislike.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  21:35:36  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm. And why is it *offensive* to you?

I know that's a delicate question to ask, within the bounds of the strictures I noted about being polite to all sides. But I would really like to understand.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30403 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  21:54:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

As I've said more than once, I could get interested in it all if it was a new setting -- I just can't accept it as the setting I used to love.


This is an interesting point to me. Why is that?

If I understand aright, you're saying that if it was another setting apart from FR--say "Savage Realms"--you'd still be interested in it.

What's stopping you from seeing it that way now? Under that logic, it's like there *is* a new setting, which happens to share a common history with an old, discontinued, much beloved setting.

Not saying that I *want* you to see it that way--just asking why you don't.


I could accept all of this stuff in a new setting because it would be new. There wouldn't be 20+ years of material that was being shoved off to one side. There wouldn't be long-standing favorite NPCs that are now dead and forgotten. There wouldn't be vast changes to something I loved. And any changes that were described in that new setting wouldn't be ones that were illogical and/or flat-out retcons from prior lore.

For example...

A hypothetical new setting might have had a nation of mages that blew up. But since the setting is new, I don't know about or have any feeling for those mages and their nation. And the event that caused that detonation likely wouldn't leave me asking, "Wait, why didn't the same thing happen over here?"

A hypothetical new setting might have deities that were killed or shuffled around. But having never been told that goddess A was flighty, it wouldn't seem at all unusual for her to marry stern god B. Goddess C could be killed, with goddess D keeping her from being replaced -- and since this new setting doesn't have an Overgod who is the only one with that power, it's not at all illogical. And deities E-H were always Exarchs -- they weren't lesser and demi-deities that I was familiar with, and who have now been demoted.

A hypothetical new setting would have all-new lands. It wouldn't have lands I was familiar with that are no longer the same, or lands that I was familiar with that are now utterly gone, replaced with another land.

And so on...

I don't mind change to a setting. In fact, I embrace it -- so long as the change doesn't turn the setting into something I no longer feel familiar with. I don't like the Sellplague and the timejump because it all seems gratuitous, and because vast sections of the Realms are being rewritten.

With a new setting, I wouldn't have any knowledge of it or emotional baggage connected to it. If I was told something happened in this setting's past, I don't have any reason to have a problem with it, and it will have been, for me, the same as it always was.

To tweak and reuse an analogy I've already used elsewhere... A setting I've followed for years is like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. A new setting would be a grilled cheese sandwich. Either of them, I can accept exactly as they are. But if you take the jelly out of the PBJ and replace it with grilled cheese, it's not the same thing -- and I especially don't want to be told it's still a PBJ and that I should enjoy it just as much. That's what WotC is doing.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Jul 2008 21:56:01
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  22:36:30  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Hmm. And why is it *offensive* to you?

I know that's a delicate question to ask, within the bounds of the strictures I noted about being polite to all sides. But I would really like to understand.

Cheers

For pretty much all the reasons that Wooly just listed. Thank you for taking time and consideration to listen to our qualms. Just wondering, how exactly did you start in the Realms? I am not trying to categorize you as anything, I just want to understand where you are coming from as well. I began reading the Realms in the mid-1990's. It was not until late 2002 or early 2003 (pre 3.5) that I finally began exploring the Realms through any other media than the novels, namely the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Magic of Faerun, and Races of Faerun. I had actually read the Return of the Archwizards not realizing that there had been a 3rd edition of the game. Even without the 3e sourcebooks, I had already obtained a feel for the Realms that felt like a happy High Fantasy home away from home. I remember reading my first Realms novel (Darkwalker on Moonshae) and exclaiming, "That's a Hobbit!" when Douglas Niles described Pawldo. It just felt like a natural place to love as a fantasy enthusiast (esp High Fantasy). So for me (similar to Wooly's PB&J and Grilled Cheese analogy), it seems as if they have taken my best friend, killed him and turned him into a zombie, and then told me that he is just the same just "streamlined" so he can be other people's (many who have had no love for or outright despised him before) best friend too.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)

Edited by - Hawkins on 24 Jul 2008 22:38:16
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  23:00:18  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I came to the Realms in a remarkably similar timeline and style to yours, having read first <i>Darkwalker</i> at about age 11 or 12 (1994-5), then <i>Streams of Silver, Exile</i>, and <i>Sojourn</i> (oddly, we didn't have a copy of the <i>Crystal Shard</i> or <i>Homeland</i>), then <i>Elfshadow</i>, then <i>Spellfire</i>, then a whole mess of other Realms novels, starting in the mid-90s. Basically as long as I've been reading, I've been reading FR. That was also about when I started playing D&D (age 11-12)--first campaigns based more than a little on Niles's novels.

I started playing D&D in the Realms around 8th grade (1997) and strongly resisted the transition to 3.0 in, what was that, 2000? My resistance lasted until I had actually read the PHB and decided it might be ok, then played, then decided it was all good. <i>GW</i> came about in 2003-2004. I've been playing there, reading there, and writing there ever since.

That's roughly as I remember it. At the risk of sounding really geeky (not a concern here at the Keep!), the Realms has been my fantasy world for around 14 years--more than half my life, now.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3532 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2008 :  23:39:22  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Original posted by Erik Scott de Bie

I wonder if I can have my next bard use an accordian. Hrm . . . .

Only if you promise never to call it an accordian and always refer to it as a Squeezebox!


Only if I can have him refer to it, in an out-RAGE-ous French Ac-CENT, as his "main-SQUEEZE" and fight with it in a two-weapon style, with the instrument in his *left* hand.

Cheers

Ahhh, but will he wear a jaunty beret or a large brimmed hat with a plume??

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3532 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  00:10:38  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As to your book , will I read it even though I do not like the 4e changes....

Absolutely! So far, (I say out of respect since I have only read two novels and one short story by you, which is still a small sampling when compared to other authors) your FR writing has been excellent. So I fully expect to enjoy your next work , no matter if it is in 4e.....6e....Star Trek Deep Space 9 or a middle ages Templar Knight murder mystery!
On or two caveats though, since I wield the awesome blade known as Mastercard!

As long as none of your characters runs around singing "ding, dong the witch is dead" about Mystra or one of the Seven Sisters we should be cool. What I mean is treat the changes flippantly or as if they are of no consiquince. Which I in no way expect of you.
In fact any 4e novel has a good chance I will read it based on the author. I can't imagine not reading the planned trilogies by Paul S. Kemp or Richard Lee Byers. Everyone will read Elaine doing 4e if wotc can make that happen. I will read Steven or Ed until they write something that runs me off! I didn't even mention Jaleigh, James P. or Rosemary Jones. I know I didn't list everyone, but right now FR has the strongest group of authors around.

Now if you jump the shark and pen some drivel that loses "that feel" that your writing has.....
I would be using that stuff for a doorstop asap....no matter where, or when it is set. Once again, i do not expect that as I see you growing as a Writer , not diminishing.

As my good friend Inigo Montoya .."Let me Sum up"!

You will get a fair shake from me, I will judge you by your work and not the conditions put on it by Wotc.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  01:04:00  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Now I know some of you (Wooly, PDK, others) have some stringent and well-reasoned objections to the Realms of 4e. What I want to know is--that established and respected--how likely are you to read Downshadow, my next novel, which is set in the 4e Realms?



I do plan to read it.

By the way, I'd like to mention that my dislike of the 4E Realms isn't simply about my being "resistant to change" (although that's partly it--many things I loved about the setting were obliterated). It's also because I have ideas in mind about where I would like my Realms to go, and the 4E Realms doesn't mesh well with my ideas...at all.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)

Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Jul 2008 01:04:37
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  01:15:39  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Sage steps in with his Mod hat on
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

P.S. NOTE TO ALL: I do not ever want to turn this into a 4e debate thread. We're being cool and calm and respectful, of one another and of the changes to the setting, even if we don't like them.

The instant it turns hostile or we take sarcastic swipes at anyone or anything, including the setting, I'll ask you to remove your post. This is not for censorship reasons, but only because it makes me physically ill to see that sort of negativity. I'll ask that posts be deleted, or I'll just leave. Fair enough?

When I say "sarcastic swipes," I mean things ranging from the obvious to the subtle, like Wooly's borderline term "Sellplague." Which, honestly, I find kinda funny, so it's cool. (No other slurs, though, ok team?)
I'd just like to re-inforce these points made by Erik.

We've all seen a few of the more expansive 4e discussions here at Candlekeep become kinda heated at times. I don't want to see that happen in a "Designers/Writers" scroll. This is purely for discussion of Erik's works. If you wish to debate the kinds of topics [such as the impact of 4e] sometimes raised here, I would suggest taking it to another scroll, or utilising the "Private Messaging' function.

Thank you.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2008 :  01:17:10  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Having said that, Erik, I do have something private that I wish to discuss with you. Please check your PMs shortly.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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