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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2005 : 20:54:46
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Well spotted! No, worship of Shar in Silverymoon is done in cellars and behind the closed doors of private homes only. The notation was there because this is a Realms-wide rite of Selune, Ed tells me.
love,
THO |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 00:13:46
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Hello again, all. I present Part Two of Ed’s reply to David Lázaro about Shieldmeet-related festivities of Silverymoon. I ended Part One with the entry for Claws, and we rejoin Ed’s words with the festival held the next day, Glarth:
GLARTH: Colloquially known as “Fullbelly,” this is a day of widespread at-home feasting. Floral-decorated wagons are sent out from the Palace in the morning, piled high with smoked hams, loaves of bread, sausages, smoked fish, tiny drawstring-bags of spices, and fruit. The wagons head for the poorest streets of the city first, but circulate until emptied; anyone can reach down any food they want from the passing wagons (that they can personally carry, without benefit of a cart or wagon of their own) to augment whatever food they already have, so that none may know hunger on this day. Visitors to the city and those who live alone are invited to dine with families, or at inns and taverns with other loners, but no loud entertainment or organized revelry takes place (typically everyone eats too much and drowses in chairs and on beds and couches into the evening, talking lazily of divers matters).
OAMAURAE (“OH-more-ay”): After all the eating and drinking of the preceding day, few folk rise until after highsun on Oamaurae. Traditionally, this is a day when everyone goes out to a playhouse, acting-ground outside the walls, inn or tavern or private home where hired performances are being presented, or simply to a street performance, to see theater.
On Omaurae, new plays are presented for the first time, new ballads-with-dance-and-mime tales performed, and new drinks (fortified, doctored-with-herbs-and-spices wines and sherries) are sold to see what’ll catch on.
Returning home after enjoying performances, households take time during the evening to read aloud stirring passages of prose, or recite ballads and heroic tales from memory. Much rich dessert food is then consumed, and everyone goes to bed.
CLEARSIGHT: A half-day of work (shops open only until highsun). The rest of the day is devoted to planning ahead, on personal, household, and professional levels.
Everyone discusses politics and (if they’re involved in any) the wording of new agreements to be solemnized, or pacts to be renewed, on Shieldmeet. Business owners talk to their employees about the direction and aim of the business, commoners hoist tankards at taverns and discuss the latest news and the “way the world is sailing,” and everyone from adventurers to fashion-setting clothiers plots their planned doings in the seasons ahead. The shop closures make possible much “meeting with investors and merchants to plan future undertakings” (and to persuade would-be business partners by wining, dining, or even wenching them) - - if, of course, you can find the people you want to make contact with, among all the to-ing and fro-ing and gladhanding going on.
AMALREE’S PLEASURE: Amalree was a spectacular, affectionate, and much-loved dancer of Silverymoon, who died almost a century ago. In her honour, this day is devoted to lighthearted dancing and flirtation. Older folk (and those too injured or infirm to take part) gather to sip wine, watch the fun unfold around them, and play various elaborate board games. In recent years, wagering on these games has become very popular, and vast sums are won and lost by the evening of ‘the Pleasure.’
MIDSUMMER: The Feast of Love. No shops are open past highsun on this day. At highsun, small feasts (private meals) begin, and open public lovemaking begins. Many folk don’t take part, and stay home in their shuttered rooms, but the majority of citizens wander, watching or fondling or diving right in and participating in sex acts with those who beckon. Open doors are invitations to all, priests cast curative spells against diseases for free, orgies and public nudity and dalliance are commonplace, and even staid old Silvaeren tell off-colour jokes or make frank, lewd remarks or praisings they’d never dream of daring to utter on any other day (and to which those they are made to are supposed not to react, “forgetting” everything that happened on Midsummer after the next dawn). Traditionally, Alustriel makes love to all sorts of strangers of both genders and many races, and leads a “Hunt of Maidens” (which of course is nothing of the sort, but rather a hunt for a specific mask - - or rather, the person wearing it - - through various gardens) after the moon rises. Clergy of Loviatar and Ilmater give demonstrations involving lovemaking, and various wealthy folk with large homes host parties at which naughty games are held (eating various sweet desserts off the bared bodies of fellow revellers is a favourite tradition).
SHIELDMEET: Celebrated as it is everywhere in the Realms, this special day is devoted to open council between rulers and ruled, which really means: commoners can sit down and speak frankly with monarchs (who are typically protected against attack with ironguard, and various protective magics that mitigate the effects of missiles, particular sorts of spells, and so on) without being overheard by courtiers and without fear of reprisal. Commoners can communicate complaints, warnings, answer royal questions, pass on gossip, and so on; most rulers consider it the most valuable and informative day of their year, and often arrange to meet again soon with particular informants.
For rulers, guild members, merchants, masters and apprentices, and others engaged in renting or in transacting business, it’s a day of renewing agreements (often reviewed or drawn up earlier, during Clearsight).
It’s also a day of many contests, trials-of-arms, duels, contests-of-spells, and full-blown tournaments of horse-and-lance, with attendant wagering. These events are rarely undertaken in anger or to settle scores or legal disputes (though they can be, if Taern or Alustriel agree and the proceedings are overseen by Spellguard members), but serve as popular entertainment, with local merchants and wealthy notables sponsoring prizes for victorious contestants. Taking part in such trials has also become a very good way for adventurers and hedge-wizards seeking employment to attract the notice of potential patrons.
Silvaeren temples and visiting priests provide free healing magics and care to injured contestants, and the day ends with a “last revel” of theatrical performances and bardic and minstrel performances in various inns, taverns, clubs, and guild headquarters, at which mead and other sweetened wines are sipped and honey-cakes and other pastries and candies are consumed. (Because it’s “back to the everyday trudge and drudge on the morrow.”) Wise celebrants take to bed early and sober; foolish ones sing and carouse late into the night, and take surly hangovers to the shop the next day.
So saith Ed. Who hopes he’s been of some help, David, and apologizes again for the brevity of his reply. He also added this:
I’m pleased and honoured that you liked THE LONG ROAD HOME so much. I hope to have opportunities to tell many more such tales of the Realms in the years ahead. As for an autobiography: maybe. I’m really not that special a person. I have for years followed a personal philosophy of “try to forgive, try to understand, try to be kind - - and try to experience almost everything life offers, at least once,” but I can’t say that I’ve yet reached any deep philosophical insights by doing so, or made myself into a better person. However, I’m not going to stop trying.
And with that, Ed and I both bid you all adieu for another day. There are Realmslore promises in plenty to keep, and pages to pound out before Ed sleeps . . .
so love to all!
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 02:56:14
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Part three of Spin a Yarn 2004:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/spinayarn2004p3 |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 03:13:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Part three of Spin a Yarn 2004:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/spinayarn2004p3
Yes, I believe Wooly already provided an URL over in the 'Info on Volo' scroll in the General FR section.
Didn't see it and the other two were in this thread. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 04:05:38
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Ed's original turnover version of the Spin A Yarn tale ran to 20,880 words or so, so there's probably more than one more part to come yet. 
Which is great, because the tale is a hoot!
love,
THO |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 04:46:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Ed's original turnover version of the Spin A Yarn tale ran to 20,880 words or so, so there's probably more than one more part to come yet.
Which is great, because the tale is a hoot!
love,
THO
That's great! I'm enjoying this year's tale immensely.
Do I dare say that this one is shaping up to be better than last year's...  ...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2005 : 09:30:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Shadowdale book in the 2e campaign box set has a small section on mills. :)
My humble thanks to thee, Kuje |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 00:07:03
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Hello again, fellow scribes.
Kuje, Ed hasn’t forgotten your Purple Lady queries, and will reply soon. In the meantime, however, he answers your divine spells question:
In 2nd Edition, 1st and 2nd level spells could be gained or renewed without direct connection to any deity (and so were obtainable during a Godswar, as I suggested in DRAGON #54, and we later all saw in the Time of Troubles). As a general rule, divine spells should be granted by deities (or their servant creatures) only as a result of direct prayer: in other words, yes, divine casters must worship a specific deity and not a cause or broad aspect.
However (weasel time), there will be exceptions, because in the endless game of one-up-god-ship that Faerûnian deities play, subtly struggling for supremacy over each other, dominance over intelligent races and events that affect their societies, and defense of personal portfolios, gods (and their loyal servant creatures) will often grant spells to mortals “out of the blue,” or under false pretenses, or whatever - - just to try to influence those events and achieve some unknown-to-mortals aim or temporary victory in the ongoing godly struggle. As I’ve said before, there are secrets about the gods I can’t yet reveal, but all of this boils down to: MOST divine casters get their spells by praying directly to a deity and serving that deity adequately (serve poorly, and your prayers may not be answered at all; serve superbly, and you may even receive extra magic), but A FEW divine casters may, for indefinite periods, receive spells when venerating only a cause, broad aspect, or even a dead or “the wrong” god.
So saith Ed. Exhibiting his usual love for compromise and all-inclusive attempts to please.
love to all,
THO
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 00:20:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello again, fellow scribes.
Kuje, Ed hasn’t forgotten your Purple Lady queries, and will reply soon. In the meantime, however, he answers your divine spells question:
So saith Ed. Exhibiting his usual love for compromise and all-inclusive attempts to please.
love to all,
THO
My thanks for both. I'm (im)patiently waiting for the Purple Lady answer because it's included in my tale that I'm working on for Candlekeep. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 00:20:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello again, fellow scribes.
Kuje, Ed hasn’t forgotten your Purple Lady queries, and will reply soon. In the meantime, however, he answers your divine spells question:
In 2nd Edition, 1st and 2nd level spells could be gained or renewed without direct connection to any deity (and so were obtainable during a Godswar, as I suggested in DRAGON #54, and we later all saw in the Time of Troubles). As a general rule, divine spells should be granted by deities (or their servant creatures) only as a result of direct prayer: in other words, yes, divine casters must worship a specific deity and not a cause or broad aspect.
However (weasel time), there will be exceptions, because in the endless game of one-up-god-ship that Faerûnian deities play, subtly struggling for supremacy over each other, dominance over intelligent races and events that affect their societies, and defense of personal portfolios, gods (and their loyal servant creatures) will often grant spells to mortals “out of the blue,” or under false pretenses, or whatever - - just to try to influence those events and achieve some unknown-to-mortals aim or temporary victory in the ongoing godly struggle. As I’ve said before, there are secrets about the gods I can’t yet reveal, but all of this boils down to: MOST divine casters get their spells by praying directly to a deity and serving that deity adequately (serve poorly, and your prayers may not be answered at all; serve superbly, and you may even receive extra magic), but A FEW divine casters may, for indefinite periods, receive spells when venerating only a cause, broad aspect, or even a dead or “the wrong” god.
So saith Ed. Exhibiting his usual love for compromise and all-inclusive attempts to please.
love to all,
THO
Which leads directly to a question which I had yesterday, but for which there was no entry point until now:
If a caster of "divine" spells comes from outside 3E Realmspace with a class or prestige class other than "cleric" which very specifically allows access to "divine" spells without prayer to a deity ("Favored Soul," for instance), are they ... ah ... stuff outta luck without a Torilian patron (as they were in 2E) unless one of the above-suggested flukes occurs?
What of spellcasters who rely on spirits for their spells but who come from outside Realmspace? Are there local spirits anxious to grant spells in order to add another worshipper/friend/whatever to their collection (not least because said mobile spellcaster can be a useful defender for them)? Or do the spirits of Toril arch their eyebrows at such types with an attitude of, "Why should we give spells to someone who would associate with Mount Watchmacallit on Planet Xyz?"
These fine distinctions may come perilously close to NDA terrain, but if they can be clarified, I am sure many would appreciate it. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 00:23:49
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So, I guess for those of us keeping score on the Eldreth Veluuthra divine help thread, Ed SEEMS to have said what many of us have guessed at, that if they are worshipping a "concept" it is likely some god granting them spells for one reason or another as part of a bigger plan.
Unless I am just hearing what I want to, lol. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 02:20:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Which leads directly to a question which I had yesterday, but for which there was no entry point until now:
If a caster of "divine" spells comes from outside 3E Realmspace with a class or prestige class other than "cleric" which very specifically allows access to "divine" spells without prayer to a deity ("Favored Soul," for instance), are they ... ah ... stuff outta luck without a Torilian patron (as they were in 2E) unless one of the above-suggested flukes occurs?
What of spellcasters who rely on spirits for their spells but who come from outside Realmspace? Are there local spirits anxious to grant spells in order to add another worshipper/friend/whatever to their collection (not least because said mobile spellcaster can be a useful defender for them)? Or do the spirits of Toril arch their eyebrows at such types with an attitude of, "Why should we give spells to someone who would associate with Mount Watchmacallit on Planet Xyz?"
These fine distinctions may come perilously close to NDA terrain, but if they can be clarified, I am sure many would appreciate it.
It was 2E, but the Spelljammer setting had ways to do this.
Outside of your home sphere, you could only regain 1st and 2nd level spells.
In a sphere where your deity was worshipped, you were fine.
If your deity wasn't worshipped, you had a couple of options. You could hope that a local deity with a similar portfolio or alignment would grant your spells -- either out of a similarity to your deity, or an agreement with that deity. Failing that, there was a 2nd level spell called Contact Home Power that would allow you to "phone home" to renew your spells. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 02:26:27
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| I think that even though they are "chosen" by their deity and have no formal training, a Favored Soul still need to pray to their god to receive spells. In fact, according to Complete Divine, even in "generic" D&D favored souls HAVE to have a deity as opposed to a concept, etc. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 04:25:30
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think that even though they are "chosen" by their deity and have no formal training, a Favored Soul still need to pray to their god to receive spells. In fact, according to Complete Divine, even in "generic" D&D favored souls HAVE to have a deity as opposed to a concept, etc.
I am frightened that I had an easier time understanding your two sentence summary than I did the section in the book! |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 12:39:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
If a caster of "divine" spells comes from outside 3E Realmspace with a class or prestige class other than "cleric" which very specifically allows access to "divine" spells without prayer to a deity ("Favored Soul," for instance), are they ... ah ... stuff outta luck without a Torilian patron (as they were in 2E) unless one of the above-suggested flukes occurs?
Perhaps one of the Toril's deities would actually grant this divine spellcaster his spells, while trying to subtly convert/manipulate this priest to worship him/her in the long run? |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 16:46:05
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Guys,
Can we take the divine spell discussion to another thread. :) Thanks. And yes I realize I asked about it but if we are going to keep discussing it, this isn't the thread to do it in. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2005 : 17:05:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Guys,
Can we take the divine spell discussion to another thread. :) Thanks. And yes I realize I asked about it but if we are going to keep discussing it, this isn't the thread to do it in. :)
Well met
Indeed. As I mentioned earlier today in Elaine's scroll... could we please try to keep areas in the Chamber of Sages to questions only. If a response from an author\designer sparks of the need for in-depth discussion, please start a new thread elsewhere.
It just keeps things a little tider and helps the author locate new requests and questions too  Thank ye.
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Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 04:07:43
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Hello, fellow scribes. Ed of the Greenwood makes reply to two scribes in the matter of the daily disposal of the dead:
Borch and Asgetrion,
Things vary so much across the Realms that it’s difficult to give any valid overall answer to your questions. However, in general, burial matters in cities and large towns across Faerûn “work like this:”
Only noble or very wealthy or very old (long-established) families (or guilds) in an urban area have, and are allowed to keep, crypts within the city walls - - usually beneath the city proper. Everyone else must inter their dead (after allowing beasts to gnaw the bones clean, in some faiths, or after cremation in some faiths or in cases of disease, fungal growths, mummy rot, lycanthropy, suspected undeath, and so on) outside the city walls.
This is the case in Baldur’s Gate. Or to put it more correctly: aside from a few old, well-hidden old-family crypts in that city, the dead are disposed of in two ways: shipped out to an offshore isle for burning (a formerly-popular custom, now used only for sailors or shipowners), or far more often corpses are carted well inland, to a monastic community. Homeless and penniless folk make the journey in a common “dead cart” known as “the Vulture Run,” and most citizens have a simple walk-with-the-cart funeral.
In the case of Baldur’s Gate, the graveyard is about five miles northeast of the city walls, and (again to try to bring something of a “general rule across the Realms” into this answer) is consecrated ground surrounded by the claimed and farmed fields of a monastery, in an attempt to guard against undeath (or at least armies of shuffling undead rising out of graves unnoticed, until they pose a deadly threat to isolated steads and wayfarers). The Gate’s graveyard is called “the Field of Rest,” and consists of a vast burial hill surmounted by a simple chapel, in the heart of the mixed monastic community of Darfleet (named for its long-ago founding monk), temple-farms dedicated to the veneration of Chauntea. The monks bury all dead, using spells and fire-sticks to fight any undead who rise, and eventually till sections of the burial fields with plows, sewing edible crops that are harvested only for their seeds (sold and sent widely across the Realms). Other Darfleet fields do yield food that’s sold directly to folk in Baldur’s Gate and elsewhere, via city carters and passing caravan-merchants.
So that’s why you’ll find no graveyards on the FR ADVENTURES maps: the dead are either taken well outside a city, or are interred in underground crypts (guild members under a guild headquarters, for example, or members of a noble family under their own family mansion). After the Threat from the Sea, the mounded corpses of attacking sea-creatures were piled up on damaging, sinking vessels, towed out to sea, and incinerated with spells - - so the dryland defenders, to avoid any insult to their families, were all taken to a height (to the north) overlooking Baldur’s Gate, there burned, and carts full of the wetted-down ashes were taken to Darfleet for “tilling in.”
Borch, your earlier and longstanding questions haven’t been forgotten, and I WILL get to them in the fullness of time.
So saith Ed. Who is wearied with the weight of Realmslore work at the moment, yet loves crafting it as much as ever, after more than thirty-seven years of imagineering. What a guy.
love to all,
THO
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 19:21:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hello, fellow scribes. Ed of the Greenwood makes reply to two scribes in the matter of the daily disposal of the dead:
Borch and Asgetrion,
Things vary so much across the Realms that it’s difficult to give any valid overall answer to your questions. However, in general, burial matters in cities and large towns across Faerûn “work like this:”
Only noble or very wealthy or very old (long-established) families (or guilds) in an urban area have, and are allowed to keep, crypts within the city walls - - usually beneath the city proper. Everyone else must inter their dead (after allowing beasts to gnaw the bones clean, in some faiths, or after cremation in some faiths or in cases of disease, fungal growths, mummy rot, lycanthropy, suspected undeath, and so on) outside the city walls.
This is the case in Baldur’s Gate. Or to put it more correctly: aside from a few old, well-hidden old-family crypts in that city, the dead are disposed of in two ways: shipped out to an offshore isle for burning (a formerly-popular custom, now used only for sailors or shipowners), or far more often corpses are carted well inland, to a monastic community. Homeless and penniless folk make the journey in a common “dead cart” known as “the Vulture Run,” and most citizens have a simple walk-with-the-cart funeral.
In the case of Baldur’s Gate, the graveyard is about five miles northeast of the city walls, and (again to try to bring something of a “general rule across the Realms” into this answer) is consecrated ground surrounded by the claimed and farmed fields of a monastery, in an attempt to guard against undeath (or at least armies of shuffling undead rising out of graves unnoticed, until they pose a deadly threat to isolated steads and wayfarers). The Gate’s graveyard is called “the Field of Rest,” and consists of a vast burial hill surmounted by a simple chapel, in the heart of the mixed monastic community of Darfleet (named for its long-ago founding monk), temple-farms dedicated to the veneration of Chauntea. The monks bury all dead, using spells and fire-sticks to fight any undead who rise, and eventually till sections of the burial fields with plows, sewing edible crops that are harvested only for their seeds (sold and sent widely across the Realms). Other Darfleet fields do yield food that’s sold directly to folk in Baldur’s Gate and elsewhere, via city carters and passing caravan-merchants.
So that’s why you’ll find no graveyards on the FR ADVENTURES maps: the dead are either taken well outside a city, or are interred in underground crypts (guild members under a guild headquarters, for example, or members of a noble family under their own family mansion). After the Threat from the Sea, the mounded corpses of attacking sea-creatures were piled up on damaging, sinking vessels, towed out to sea, and incinerated with spells - - so the dryland defenders, to avoid any insult to their families, were all taken to a height (to the north) overlooking Baldur’s Gate, there burned, and carts full of the wetted-down ashes were taken to Darfleet for “tilling in.”
Borch, your earlier and longstanding questions haven’t been forgotten, and I WILL get to them in the fullness of time.
So saith Ed. Who is wearied with the weight of Realmslore work at the moment, yet loves crafting it as much as ever, after more than thirty-seven years of imagineering. What a guy.
love to all,
THO
What about Waterdeeps city of the dead? Why do the dead there not rise up and swarm the city? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 23:09:57
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
What about Waterdeeps city of the dead? Why do the dead there not rise up and swarm the city?
Actually, not all of Waterdeep's dead sleep quietly. The City of the Dead is closed off at night, precisely because some of its residents are prone to wandering...
As I recall, both the Watch and local priests do what they can to keep the City's "locals" from getting out.
Plus, not all of Waterdeep's dead are actually *in* the City of the Dead. Some of the crypts there are portals to other dimensions, where the dead are interred. |
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Ladejarl
Seeker
Norway
55 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2005 : 23:23:55
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Well met Lady Hooded One,
Pray ask the Bearded One if he are free to share any lore on which faiths are represented among the druids of the Misty Forest. Allso the names of some the druids of importance in the forest would be much appreciated.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 03:45:59
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Hi again, all. khorne, Wooly’s reply to you is well said. Ed can’t say more on this for NDA reasons, but I’ll spill a LITTLE of the beans by saying: Interested in the dead not sleeping in the City of the Dead? Then you MUST read CITY OF SPLENDORS, a novel by Elaine Cunningham and Ed Greenwood!
This time Ed tackles Jamallo Kreen’s queries: “Is there a Torilian deity who has diplomacy as a portfolio? Do the gods have any divinity who travels amongst them as neutral messenger and herald, as Hermes served the Olympians, Hades, and Poseidon?
Does much diplomacy occur among the sentient races on Toril? It seems to me that every little squabble and disagreement quickly turns to guerilla warfare, assassination, terrorism, or full-scale invasion. . . . I suppose that a lot of diplomacy occurs within the Lords' Alliance, but I rarely see overt evidence of it in the novels or sourcebooks. Does it take place via portal travel? Do diplomats otherwise travel with trade caravans or do they travel only with their own entourages?”
Ed replies:
No deity has diplomacy as a portfolio, because diplomacy is a large part of what all priesthoods do (if you’re trying to influence matters in Faerûn involving other intelligent beings, without using weapons, you’re practising diplomacy whether you call it that or not). In other words, no deity will be allowed by the others to “own” a portfolio of diplomacy, even if certain divine beings are very eloquent, persuasive, or successfully manipulative.
The gods aren’t monolithic, but rather a number of pantheons. Among the human deities worshipped most widely across the Realms (in other words, those not grouped in FAITHS & PANTHEONS under a “Pantheon” heading in the “Other Deities” section), Helm once did a lot of shuttling “amongst them as neutral messenger and herald” before the Time of Troubles, but his actions during that time of crisis earned him such dislike that he’s abandoned that role after being so often spurned, since. In most of the other pantheons, deities employed their servants (archons, et al) as emissaries more often than one of their number performed heraldic duties.
Your impression that “every little squabble and disagreement quickly turns to guerilla warfare, assassination, terrorism, or full-scale invasion” is a function of the D&D game and commercial fiction demands, I’m afraid: a LOT of diplomacy (successful and otherwise) goes on daily among and between settlements of sentient races on Toril. If it did not, no stable, widespread trade would occur. You just don’t get shown it all that much in game adventures, novels, or Realms sourcebooks (although there’s an upcoming [NDA] that may help in a small way to change that) - - certainly not as much as such publications address open armed conflict. Remember that all the tense argument and confrontation scenes in royal courts (as seen in the various Cormyr novels, among the elves on Evermeet in Rich Baker’s current Last Mythal series, and so on) ARE diplomacy, even if they often end disastrously. You’ll see a lot of informal, one-on-one diplomacy in CITY OF SPLENDORS. The Zhentarim and the Red Wizard enclaves make daily coin through the sort of diplomacy known as trade negotiations - - it’s just that printed Realmslore rarely focuses on that.
(As to why the Zhentarim are widely feared or disliked: it’s due to most peoples’ aversion to suffering violence at the hands of powerful wizards who are known to be allied with priests of Cyric [murder, lies, intrigue, deception, illusion] or Bane [strife, hatred, tyranny, fear] AND beholders - - and the Zhents have so often struck at anyone who disagreed with them that others now expect them to do so. “From whom one buys one’s pots and pans shouldn’t be a matter of cosmic significance, in my opinion, but the people of Faerûn make it so,” you post, but I’ve never seen that as true in any of my writings: folk mistrust the Zhents and the Red Wizards for their violent tendencies and out of mistrust of their magic, not for the goods they trade - - and in general DON’T refuse to trade with them, or buy goods from caravan wagons that have travelled under Zhent protection, so I see no attachment of “cosmic significance” occurring, on the part of most folk of Faerûn.)
In general, diplomacy across the Realms is done daily by the Heralds (as revealed in the 2nd Edition CODE OF THE HARPERS and in the upcoming [NDA]), but also by “factors” (trade agents) and by the envoys (diplomats) of kingdoms and city-states treating directly with each other. Such delegations always travel with scribes and bodyguards (and usually trained spies, too). In very dangerous wilderland areas, when overland travel is extended, they may travel as part of a large caravan for safety, yes, but up and down the Sword Coast or within the Dragonreach lands they generally travel as a large, well-armed band flying the banners of the realm they represent and “peace and parley” banners depicting open hands. Such groups can expect to be stopped and searched by local authorities, but not imprisoned, attacked, harrassed, or to suffer confiscations unless they’ve openly done violence or thefts or arson, or are suspected of being something other than envoys (transporting slaves or poisons is not ‘legitimate’ behaviour for any trade envoy, for example).
Within the Lords’ Alliance, a lot of key diplomacy does occur via portal travel, yes, generally involving Silverymoon (or certain secluded Everlund mansions) as “common meeting-grounds.” Alustriel is so widely beloved that grumblings about her dominating affairs in the North are generally seen as just that: grumblings emitted as bargaining ploys. She’s the key counterweight to the natural dominance of Waterdeep within the Alliance - - yet there are also the “quiet voices” heard by few outside the Alliance, notably Tolgar Anuvien of Goldenfields, whose ability to feed (or starve) many Alliance members carries great weight.
And yes, international diplomacy has grown since the “Crusade” against the Tuigan Horde, because it brought many rulers together in common cause for the first time. Some have “lapsed back into their old ways,” yes, but most are more aware of, and place more value in, knowing what’s going on farther and farther away from their own patrol-outposts or borders.
So the diplomacy happens constantly, Jamallo Kreen, and can easily dominate your campaign if you want it to; don’t be misled by the natural tendency of Realms fiction and game offerings to concentrate on open combat.
So saith Ed. Whom I can back up on this, as one of his longtime players: most “home” Realmsplay sessions, with Ed as DM, are intrigue (diplomacy) and not combat at all (on many nights, we never draw weapons). Ed’s Realms are a proverbial hotbed of intrigue.
love,
THO
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 05:21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Cyric [murder, lies, intrigue, deception, illusion] or Bane [STRIFE, hatred, tyranny, fear]
Oh dear Ed not you to!
The writers and proof readers that worked on the FRC and Faithes and pantheons have much to answer for!  |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2005 : 05:32:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi again, all. khorne, Wooly’s reply to you is well said. Ed can’t say more on this for NDA reasons, but I’ll spill a LITTLE of the beans by saying: Interested in the dead not sleeping in the City of the Dead? Then you MUST read CITY OF SPLENDORS, a novel by Elaine Cunningham and Ed Greenwood!
This time Ed tackles Jamallo Kreen’s queries: “Is there a Torilian deity who has diplomacy as a portfolio? Do the gods have any divinity who travels amongst them as neutral messenger and herald, as Hermes served the Olympians, Hades, and Poseidon?
Does much diplomacy occur among the sentient races on Toril? It seems to me that every little squabble and disagreement quickly turns to guerilla warfare, assassination, terrorism, or full-scale invasion. . . . I suppose that a lot of diplomacy occurs within the Lords' Alliance, but I rarely see overt evidence of it in the novels or sourcebooks. Does it take place via portal travel? Do diplomats otherwise travel with trade caravans or do they travel only with their own entourages?”
Ed replies:
(at length and well)
Thank you very much! I have read Cormyr since I posted my question, and I have a better grasp of the sort of negotiations you mention. (I hadn't read The Parched Sea until last week, either, and what can I say now but ... "Gosh, those Zhents are naughty people!")
I was aware that Goldenfields wields subtle power, but it didn't occur to me until I read your answer that winning Goldenfields to their side in a negotiation might be a way for some smaller communities to leverage Waterdeep or Silverymoon.
I look forward to (NDA).
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Smyther
Learned Scribe
Canada
121 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2005 : 01:02:21
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I've a question for Ed regarding Netheril. Specifically, their floating cities.
I'm under the understanding that the cities of Netheril were created from the lopped-off mountain tops inverted, created to float, and then had cities built on them.
Unfortunately, this leaves the questions of the chopped-off mountains. Where are they and how many people know about them? Was there a favored ranged of mountains used by the Netherese that might still remain today as the 'flat top range' or such? It's just that I find no mention in lore of flat topped mountains and I'd think that people would have noticed the occasional one and noted it. That said, I can't recall how many flying cities there were, so I don't know how prevalent these headless mountains would be.
Many thanks to Ed if he knows the answer. |
So sayeth the Smyther, the Dark Bard of Amn. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2005 : 01:23:24
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Hello again, all. Ed replies to Si in the matter of Realms terms for a troubleshooter:
Si, in Faerûn such a person is usually called a “ready hand” (meaning someone who can deal with, or will try to deal with [with a fair amount of competence or success], a wide variety of problems and tasks without a lot of fuss). The closest real-world translation would probably be “jack-of-all-trades.”
Someone who’s skilled at several sorts of craftwork (such as a person who can function well as a carpenter, locksmith, blacksmith, woodcarver, and tool-maker and -maintainer) is usually referred to a “guildscrafter” (meaning they could probably qualify for membership in multiple goods, not that they’re necessarily a member of any guild at all).
Someone trained and assigned (by the local governing authority) to “deal with problems” in any area, particularly if this involves occasional violence or “taking the law into their own hands” is sometimes called a “watchsword” even if they don’t carry a sword at all (as distinct from “guard” or “sentinel;” the possible confusion between the three terms is why the term is only employed “sometimes” and isn’t more widely popular).
So saith Ed, tirelessly revealing Realmslore wherever he goes. (And yes, Si, he agrees that “adventurer” is a pretty good answer, too.)
love to all,
THO
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2005 : 02:10:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Smyther
I've a question for Ed regarding Netheril. Specifically, their floating cities.
I'm under the understanding that the cities of Netheril were created from the lopped-off mountain tops inverted, created to float, and then had cities built on them.
Unfortunately, this leaves the questions of the chopped-off mountains. Where are they and how many people know about them? Was there a favored ranged of mountains used by the Netherese that might still remain today as the 'flat top range' or such? It's just that I find no mention in lore of flat topped mountains and I'd think that people would have noticed the occasional one and noted it. That said, I can't recall how many flying cities there were, so I don't know how prevalent these headless mountains would be.
Many thanks to Ed if he knows the answer.
I believe it has been stated that during the Fall of High Netheril, the magic chaos warped some of the mountains in the area that the Cities were cut from. This repointed them... well, perhaps most of them. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2005 : 09:44:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Smyther
I've a question for Ed regarding Netheril. Specifically, their floating cities.
I'm under the understanding that the cities of Netheril were created from the lopped-off mountain tops inverted, created to float, and then had cities built on them.
Unfortunately, this leaves the questions of the chopped-off mountains. Where are they and how many people know about them? Was there a favored ranged of mountains used by the Netherese that might still remain today as the 'flat top range' or such? It's just that I find no mention in lore of flat topped mountains and I'd think that people would have noticed the occasional one and noted it. That said, I can't recall how many flying cities there were, so I don't know how prevalent these headless mountains would be.
Many thanks to Ed if he knows the answer.
i placed a small number of "flat-top-mountains" in the central area of the desertsmouth mountains. many of those mountains might have lakes on their flat top, which could in turn be utilized by the dwarves of tethyamar: just build a dungeon/mine/underground settlement under the lake, drill it from below and voilá: instant source of water power! dwarves are known for their advanced engeneering skills, so water-powered forges aren´t too much of a stretch, imo.
matching adventure-idea for such dungeons (i.e. "what i did in my game" ):
a clan of dwarves from tethyamar had centuries ago built such a "hydropower-forge" under a flat-topped mountain with two lakes. after their realm crumbled, orogs occupied the dungeon and when the zhents discovered the mine, they quickly dominated the clan with the help of a beholder. a zhentarim mage settled in (guarded by the beholder and the orogs) and used the outpost as a handy laboratory and workshop for constructing golems. when he needed more space, he ordered the orogs to clean out the junk of a few more rooms, which they obediently did: all wooden scrap was piled in a room which had an small tunnel to the upside for air-ventilation (so the smoke wouldn´t fill the living rooms) and set afire. ...just bad that a rather large number of crates was thrown on the pile, full of an weird black powder!
the resulting explosion caused the lake to break through, completely filling the dungeon. of course, the players were trying to find some old dwarven stuff just when the pile was ignited. happy running!
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2005)
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