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Weiser_Cain
Learned Scribe

87 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2005 :  17:12:20  Show Profile  Visit Weiser_Cain's Homepage Send Weiser_Cain a Private Message
From the WotC boards:
quote:
lvaerele Tasundrym (She was the Magister back in 576 to 592DR. She's called the Silent Chosen and most have no idea she exists. She guards things the old Mystra wanted to keep secret, like where the Srinshee sleeps. She also makes sure to keep human, half-elven, and elven family trees up to date so they don’t become lost.)


Why would they become 'lost' and what does it mean to be lost?

I'm always the Wizard!
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2005 :  18:01:39  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message
I am well aware of the beleifs of many different faiths. I have friends that practice them, as well as aquantances, and I have studied them myself, out of a desire to learn about others. I have also studied Hindism, Judiasm, and Islam. When stating what I beleive, that Greek and Norse myths are fantasy, I am well aware that you see my religeon in the same manner, and I accept that we have differing points of view. I would also point out that if you think that Catholics beleive that every word in the Bible is absolutely literal, then you don't know as much about Catholisim as you may think (for example, the creation story in Genesis . . . )

What I posted was in reply to comments that others had made on various practices in the Realms and how Ed Greewood viewed them and interpreted them in his setting. I tried very hard not to make my post a referendum on a particular topic that was outside of what was originally posited by the forum members and Mr. Greenwood. I will not further comment on my own personal situation or a response to such becuase I do not want this thread to become derailed from what its intention is, which is to gain Realmslore from the creator of the Realms itself.


"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2005 :  18:34:14  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message
I just have a general question . . . which from what I gather Ed hates, lol. I was just wondering if Ed has ever done the traditional DM reality warping . . . by that I mean, you write down an NPC that you once listed as LG as being LN, and then make up a back story that would explain the change in class, alignment, etc. that your players may never have any idea about.

I find that sometimes my absent mindedness actually moves some subplots ahead, lol.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Beowulf
Learned Scribe

Canada
322 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2005 :  19:15:46  Show Profile  Visit Beowulf's Homepage Send Beowulf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR

When stating what I beleive, that Greek and Norse myths are fantasy, I am well aware that you see my religeon in the same manner, and I accept that we have differing points of view.


Well, we could get into some fine points about what I do and do not consider fantasy, and about what elements of any relgion should be respected as taboo and which should be taken with a grain of salt, but these points tend to apply just as equally to one's own religion as they do to that of others. Some things are negotiable and thus open to ritheous criticism. Alot of things actually, and Christianity is no exception.

Neither my deities, nor the beliefs or values that flow from them require me to validate their existence by invalidating the deities and beliefs of outsiders, Christ included. Sorry, its just not so.

And indeed, you are in no way required to embrace the particulars of anothers faith or creed. Of course, if we wish to be respected for our beliefs, or our race, or our sexual preference, we must first be willing to extend that respect. And I don't think that insinuating people are stupid, deluded, or misguided, by saying their beliefs are fantasy, is very respectful.

Perhaps now we can either end this conversation or take into private email?

"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
Admin

United Kingdom
5579 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2005 :  22:40:55  Show Profile  Visit Alaundo's Homepage  Click to see Alaundo's MSN Messenger address Send Alaundo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf

And indeed, you are in no way required to embrace the particulars of anothers faith or creed. Of course, if we wish to be respected for our beliefs, or our race, or our sexual preference, we must first be willing to extend that respect. And I don't think that insinuating people are stupid, deluded, or misguided, by saying their beliefs are fantasy, is very respectful.

Perhaps now we can either end this conversation or take into private email?



Well met

Very well said indeed, Beowulf. Thank ye

Often such discussions can cause unrest and sometimes hostile responses, I think it best that we do not further discuss this here, certainly not in Ed's thread. Thy suggestion of continuing in private messages or email, if required, is certainly advisable.

Alaundo
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2005 :  00:17:34  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
malchor7, you asked me “Does Ed ever feel under pressure (from WotC, from fans, from anyone, really) either to ignore non-heterosexuality or "clean it up" (like, as Zhandilar was discussing, turning bisexuality into heterosexuality when it comes to a permanent relationship)? Does he feel that the fantasy market (and/or the world in general) is really hostile toward discussions of sexuality? [snip] Does Ed think sexuality just scares people, and they don't want to talk about it? Is it religious in origin? Media-driven? Political?”
So of course I turned to Ed for his answer:



Yes, I’ve quite often felt pressure from editors and co-writers, down the years, to ‘keep it clean.’ In some part that was due to their own preferences, and in others because of the target audience TSR (and now WotC) were/are aiming at. I was quite often told, in the early days, that we were writing for the “12-year-old American male,” and laughing because I personally thought that, if we really were aiming for that consumer (and as a GenCon attendee, I KNEW we had lots of gal gamers and a majority of slightly older - - and getting older every year - - male gamers), the 12-year-old American male should have been getting a whole lot more examples of sex AND friendship and family trust and love and a whole lot LESS wanton gore and violence.
I know that a lot of TSR fears were of offending “Angry Mothers From Heck” and the Bible Belt ‘holy rollers’ (TV evangelists searching for the next easy evil target), because doing so would cost them access to markets. So a lot of the ‘avoid the sex’ (sometimes carried to extremes; I’ve mentioned here in the past about having a DRAGON article on King Arthur pulled because an editor wouldn’t let me say Lancelot and Guinevere [just to pick one of the simpler spellings of her name] were “lovers” - - a no-no because Gwen and Arthur were married at the time, so that would be “extramarital love!” Horror! Shock and awe, even!) was based in not wanting to offend certain religious folk.
However, much of the fantasy market (check out the old John Norman GOR books, and the long-running series by Robert Jordan and Terry Goodkind, to say nothing of all the Laurel Hamilton, Anne Rice, and other “vampire-sex” genre novels) these days goes much, much farther into sexuality than I ever do in the Realms.
And no, many other countries (particularly in Europe) lack a lot of the sexual repression I see in the United States. I believe part of it is rooted in how the States began (Puritan and Quaker colonies, among all the other early settlements).
What puzzles me about the current state of America are all the double standards I see (use sex to sell in television commercials and then [the football player and the Desperate Housewife ad] suddenly have a fit about doing so; revel in harder, faster movies and bestselling novels and then wag fingers at “immoral youth” and “wanton, loose morals” when the public mores that have been shown to people as examples for decades are these very same movies and novels; Religious Right preachers howl about the moral behaviour of others whilst trysting in hotels with partners married to other people, not them . . . and so on). I see dishonesty and hypocrisy as far more damaging to society at large than kissing and cuddling (and if it’s sexual diseases and the like everyone’s worried about, why not have full public access to protection and sexual hygiene instruction?). If celibacy is promoted for religious reasons, please also remove the fear and misinformation instead of treating sex as “naughty” and secretive, and therefore making it more alluring to the young (an allure that arises from basic human nature, and was being written about in ancient Rome [see Juvenal’s SATIRES and others]; what’s wrong with the Religious Right that they don’t understand human nature?). And so on . . .
However, I’m not interested in fighting with anybody about such topics.
Until the moment they feel they have the right to tell ME what to do, and think, and feel.
(Again, a lot of the trouble caused by conservative folk of any faith begins when they believe they have the right to tell everyone else how to behave, not just folk of their own faith.)
In general, in Realms fiction, I do try to show diversity. After all, we postulate a world in which lots of different intelligent races live together with humans (and magic can permanently or temporarily alter physical form, so when you pick up that hot young lass or lad in the tavern, you really don’t know if they’re really of another gender, or are several centuries old, or are an orc or other race magically shapechanged and out for a little fun). So we really do have diversity already. I just want to show its richness and consequences, and entertain along the way; the aim of most writers, really.



So saith Ed. Who’ll return with more Realmslore tomorrow.
love to all,
THO
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2005 :  02:41:50  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Ah, I believe I can clarify a point Ed made for Zandilar, here: the “forced sex” bit.
There’s a scene in ELMINSTER’S DAUGHTER wherein a furious Alusair marches out of a hunting lodge, accosts the young male noble (yes, one of her “blades”), and forces him to fight her (fisticuffs), a fight that will end (as they both know) in sex. He doesn’t want to punch ‘his’ princess, and says so, and she snarls at him that she’s ordering him to do so - - and the scene unfolds as one might expect. THAT’S what Ed meant: Alusair venting her anger by physically fighting with lovers, in effect ‘forcing’ them into sex. I should note that it’s portrayed as unusual behaviour (not for her, but that others don’t indulge in it).


Okay, time for a serious few comments about this.

First up, if there's consent then it's not forced. If the young man in question had asked her to stop, I would desperately hope that she would - though perhaps not. Since she did order him to hit her, so she might have done it anyway (without consent), then it would have been rape.

To me, it looks as if Alusair has issues. That kind of behaviour is quite symptomatic of someone who suffered abuse herself at an early age. From a psychological point of view, she needs help. (Her other behaviour, hiding grief and other emotions behind anger, also fits into this pattern, though that could be a result of other trauma.) People just don't behave that way without reason. You mention that it's normal for her, but not for anyone else. Why does she do it? If it isn't because of abuse (and really I can't see her immediate family subjecting her to that), what is it that drives her to violence? What trauma has she gone through that would cause it? Warfare? This could also be what we call Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, which causes all sorts of self destructive behavior, including violence. PTSD is fairly common in Vietnam Veterans, and probably amongst anyone who has truely seen the horrors of war (WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq) - so why is it that only Alusair seems to show symptoms of it? Surely her blades would suffer from it, and those who fought in the last war?

As I said, she needs help - otherwise things will just get worse, no matter how many friends she has. This is the sort of internal pain that most people have problems sharing with even their nearest and dearest, and it just ends up in a cycle of self destruction that either ends in suicide or a mental breakdown.

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 28 Apr 2005 02:53:25
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2005 :  02:47:21  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
First off for Zandilar:

If I recall correctly, Alusair was born in 1335 DR. Thus, she's approaching the big 4 0. Can't wait to see how she handles that or a nephew who is popular with the young ladies in a decade or so.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
I personally thought that, if we really were aiming for that consumer (and as a GenCon attendee, I KNEW we had lots of gal gamers and a majority of slightly older - - and getting older every year - - male gamers), the 12-year-old American male should have been getting a whole lot more examples of sex AND friendship and family trust and love and a whole lot LESS wanton gore and violence.



Well, as one American, I can attest that in my own experiences and in talking to others, Ed Greenwood had a better feel of the pulse of 12 year old Americans than the editors he was dealing with.

quote:

In general, in Realms fiction, I do try to show diversity...I just want to show its richness and consequences, and entertain along the way; the aim of most writers, really.



Thank you. I'd love to see bisexual or even homosexual characters in Realms fiction as long as it's part of the character, not what defines the character.
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2005 :  14:40:42  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

First off for Zandilar:

If I recall correctly, Alusair was born in 1335 DR. Thus, she's approaching the big 4 0. Can't wait to see how she handles that or a nephew who is popular with the young ladies in a decade or so.



That would make her 37 in 1372 DR. So, time is also running out for her to have a child of her own (without going into full details, pregnancy becomes more risky, and more prone to problems the older a woman gets). I know Tanalasta had a miraculously easy pregnancy for her first one (at 37 or so herself), and especially in the manner in which she gave birth (I suspect divine assistance)...

Anyway, at 37, I would hope that Alusair had some kind of world view and some idea of her sexual preference (after all, she practices sex often enough), wouldn't you? I'm only 33 and I'm fairly settled into my life (yes, there's still room for growth and fluidity, but that goes for everyone at any age)... When you think about it, 40 is the midpoint of the human life span, it's all downhill from there - of course, that's only given you live to 80. It's definitely selling us in our 30s (early or late) short to imply that we're still too immature to be settled into a world view or a sexuality.

quote:

Thank you. I'd love to see bisexual or even homosexual characters in Realms fiction as long as it's part of the character, not what defines the character.



But that's just the thing. There are so many characters who happen to be heterosexual, that we're blind to it. Where are the characters who happen to be bisexual or homosexual? They might be there, but I can assure you that most people think "heterosexual until proven otherwise" about everyone. So unless it's shown (remember the old writing adage... show don't tell), most people would just assume they're heterosexual.

Of course, it shouldn't be the only defining characteristic of the character. That would lead to a very much one dimensional character, and wouldn't make for very interesting reading.

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 28 Apr 2005 14:42:59
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  01:08:46  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello, all. Herewith, Ed makes reply to David Maxson about the gods:



Hello, David. First of all, “Mr. Greenwood” is my dad. Secondly, everything I say here is abbreviated and tempered by some Big Secrets about the gods of the Realms that I can’t reveal yet (BEEG NDA time, and probably for a year or three yet).
Here we go . . .
The big failing in the published Realms to date, throughout all editions, is (through editorial neglect that was probably due to fears of smaller sales and/or offending some markets) a lack of sufficient detail about churches (creeds, aims, taboos, rituals, specific garments and gestures and customs, sacred things; all of that), and too much focus and argument about which god did exactly what to what other god, when.
The problem with concentrating on the latter is that mortals (PCs) just can never know the truth about divine matters; even the gods lie and distort, and their priesthoods certainly do. So knowing exactly when the Dawn Cataclysm happened, or if Mask is a more effective liar than Leira was, isn’t really of much practical use to a Player Character.
I’ve spoken about this here at Candlekeep before. Simply put, we can never know the truth about the doings of the gods (unless I’m writing about it, of course [Insert Big Cheesy Grin]).
As a result, the current state of affairs IS “properly "hazy" enough in terms of detail (more precisely, the lack thereof) to allow a DM to grow and develop it as his or her player's actions dictate.” Even if it doesn’t seem so.
We’re stuck with Ao (not my creation) as the creator deity, yes, but the key is that Ao is a “disinterested” (or largely hands-off) creator deity. If we have any other sort of creator deity, the game becomes meaningless, because if your success as a PC adventurer is foreordained by the gods, or even driven by conflicting divine wills and prophecies, true free will vanishes, heroism isn’t really heroism, and there’s really no point in adventuring, is there?
I advocated a one-time Godswar as a campaign fix for ‘broken’ magic items and the like. TSR folks (operating on the Marvel Comics thinking of THOR having Ragnarok every fifty issues, et al) seized on it as the way to change the rules from 1st to 2nd Edition. Have a great crisis, make it an ‘Event,’ and use it (however clumsily; assassins being a case in point here) as a blanket explanation for changes.
In my opinion, that’s MUCH better than changing things and then claiming, as you put it, “it’s always been this way.” That was an insult to the established fans/buying public when the comics editors did it (I remember listening to an artist who worked on AQUAMAN decades ago for DC Comics, bitching about an editor changing the colour of an undersea race, and answering protests that the readers would know it was different from one issue to the next with a snarl of, “Hey - - who cares? They’re just KIDS, darn it! It doesn’t MATTER!” Well, to me it sure as darn does!), and it tastes no better when you do it to gamers. By all means use incredible logic (“Sure you saw him fall over the cliff! But you found no body, right? Right? Then he’s STILL ALIVE!”); it’s better than trying to ignore changes.
Now, the changes can remain mysterious to mortals, a matter of debate and fear and even religious schism. As I said, mortals can’t be certain of anything, and if the DM keeps the focus on roleplaying and what the churches do (what are the upperpriests whispering about, behind closed doors? what will they send their agents out to try to do, next tenday?), cosmological details will fade into the “doesn’t matter to my life” for most PCs. THAT would be my foremost advice to any DM running the Realms right now.
As for my article, it’s important to remember that I was suggesting one way to build a pantheon (balanced in terms of alignments, assign portfolios to deities), in a time when anything written by Gary Gygax was official by definition, and was to be immediately incorporated into one’s own world as part of the D&D rules. I was suggesting one way of assembling and ordering gods, not promoting my method as the One True Way. I used a different, much simpler method when designing Darsar (the world in which my Band of Four novels from Tor Books are set), and a different one yet again for Castlemorn (hopefully soon to be published by Studio 2 Publishing).



So saith Ed. Whom I’ve always thought of as the One True Creator (and Old Bearded Overgod) of the Realms. Hmmm; can’t beat THAT as an entry on his resumé.
love to all,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  01:50:23  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

So saith Ed. Whom I’ve always thought of as the One True Creator (and Old Bearded Overgod) of the Realms. Hmmm; can’t beat THAT as an entry on his resumé.
To pick up a strand from another scroll, perhps Kuje should add "The Hooded One" as a possible 'Chosen' of the 'Old Bearded Overgod' to his listing of other Chosen in the Realms... .



Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Sarelle
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
508 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  02:02:51  Show Profile  Visit Sarelle's Homepage  Click to see Sarelle's MSN Messenger address Send Sarelle a Private Message
Well I didn't entirely expect to be doing this at this time in the morning. But I needed to say a few things, so I have returned to Candlekeep *waves to some familiar faces and bows to THO*.

First off, it was reading Zandilar's posts and the various mature replies that I found myself interested in other realmslore answers and eventually posting this. It is warming to see such a candid and mature discussion of sexuality within the Realms. I myself has always been pleasantly surprised by the quantity and stance of the setting's references to 'LGBT' liaisons (I'm guessing that it was the books' controversial source and his position as editor that allowed Philip Athans to keep the affair between Imoen and a female drow in the Baldur's Gate Trilogy, but in the wider field we still got Lliira's female lover in Faiths and Pantheons). I have just come to not expect any of the spectrums of non-hetrosexuality to appear in fantasy settings. I suppose its sad I should be warmed by such scant references, but I say give credit where it is due. However I ought to point out the disturbing tendency to stick to what is safe (and average male-gamer pleasing), and have only bisexual (or homosexual) women. I am all too aware of the influence that WotC's editors have, but I think that pandering to the male lesbian fantasy is surely double standards that not even such harsh "American Far-Right-ing" will explain.

Onto my questions, I've recently aquired stacks of old 1st and 2nd edition Realms accessories and have been spradically reading through them. I've also acquired Serpent Kingdoms and have had great fun doing what no doubt many of the Realms old-timers on here have been missing so much with Third Edition products, and matching up newer SK references with their throwaway origins.

I was wondering about two things.

Firstly, how did you find translating characters from the Avatar Series into constant NPCs in the adventure modules Shadowdale, Tantras, and Waterdeep? I'm aware some of the changes put into effect in the course of the Time of Troubles weren't to your taste, but was the experience of writing the modules refreshing or more of a task you felt neccessary?

Of Serpent Kingdoms, specifically of the yuan-ti and sarrukh threat, how much do the powerful Scaleless Ones (the Chosen of Mystra, various sages, [un]lucky Bedines/Lapaliiyans who are in close proximity enough with the activity to possibly encounter some of it, Twisted Rune members etc.) know or guess? Because I would imagine even a world-weary Elminster would jump at the idea that some of the earliest creatures in Toril's history slithered and worked magic once again on Faerûn.

Chair of the The Rightful Return of Monster Deities to FR Society (RRMDFRS)

My character, drawn by Liodain: Sarelle / Sarelle (smaller)

Edited by - Sarelle on 29 Apr 2005 02:48:38
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  02:14:47  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


I, too, want to thank all scribes for allowing this discussion to unfold without a lot of the ranting and bigoted outrage that often seems to boil up online when such matters are raised (or even scented). Candlekeep is a nice place; thanks, Alaundo.


Hear hear. I have very much enjoyed this discussion and would echo those sentiments. It's valuable that people can have such a discussion without degenerating into two camps of angry sentiment. I am very impressed with the maturity here at Candlekeep.

quote:
Usually what I’ve written has been edited enough to destroy the context.


Do you run into any kind of editorial restriction / oversight when you're writing the Band of Four? I've only read the first two, but it doesn't seem, really, all that racier -- definitely quite sexy, but I wouldn't bump it up much higher than the Realms' PG-13. Do you exercise greater freedom there?

quote:
SiriusBlack is correct in pointing out that WotC attitudes are governed by marketing concerns (what they think the public wants tempered by what will cause backlash/reduced access to certain markets), and to that I’ll add that from the original TSR days, art has always been able to ‘go a bit farther’ towards the risqué than text (and fiction a trifle farther than must-state-things-clearly game lore).


Tragic, isn't it? But you can't fault WotC -- I understand their position implicitly. Any real change has to come from the fans -- the pocketbook, as it were.

quote:
My primary aim must always be to be ‘true’ to the individual characters, not use them as vehicles gto explore GBLT issues or anything else. Yes, novels or even series are often planned that way, ‘using’ characters to explore situations and philosophies and age-old conflicts, but when actually doing the writing, word by word and paragraph by paragraph, if I’m the one with quill in hand, it will only ‘ring true’ if I visualize the characters as themselves, and never have them ‘step out of character’ to fit the convenience of the plot.


Absolutely. As I've found, eventually characters take on a life of their own and jump entirely out of one's control. You want to force them to do something, but you know you just can't -- everything flows organically. Do you have that experience, Ed?

quote:
I have in the past written many scenes of Alusair weeping that have been chopped by various editors because they wanted Alusair to be a “strong,” liberated “angry young woman.” You see, I don’t view crying, or kindness, or understanding, or trying to comfort someone else as a weakness, and others (however unconsciously) do: they equate the stoic John Wayne-type image with strength. That can say ‘strength’ cheaply and easily, yes, but I prefer something more two-dimensional (especially with major characters).


I think stoicism is just repression -- it isn't a real source of strength at all, and ultimately fails most characters. Incidentally, stoicism is an important theme in my writing -- many of my characters try to be stoic and unconcerned with others around them and either 1) fail, which is not a bad thing, or 2) succumb to their own weakness. But I should clam up until y'all get your hands on Ghostwalker.

quote:
I DO have plans.




Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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malchor7
Seeker

62 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  02:39:36  Show Profile  Visit malchor7's Homepage Send malchor7 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

So of course I turned to Ed for his answer:



And what an answer it was. Ed of the Greenwood, I am in your debt for such powerful expression. My thanks for being so honest, and treating your fans so well.

m
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David Maxson
Acolyte

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  07:06:02  Show Profile  Visit David Maxson's Homepage Send David Maxson a Private Message
Ed,

Thank you for taking the time to reply so promptly.

My apologies to all those with questions pending whom I ‘cut in front of’, so to speak.

I am encouraged by news of NDA’s getting in the way of answering cosmology questions and questions about the Deities of the Realms. I’ll take that to mean the answers are forthcoming in one fashion or another at some point in the future.

Lastly I’ll be sure to hearken to you advice as it reflects in some ways how I already run my Realms.

Again my thanks.

David Maxson
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  08:09:37  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by RevJest
I suspect that the royal sisters have longer lifespans than the average human, given their mother's seeming good health and beauty at her advanced age. After all, when your Grandfather is ...



I don't think this really is a factor. Not unless their grandfather isn't human.

I do know to whom you are refering, but I might point out that his lifespan has nothing to do with his genetics, but more to do with the power he carries inside him. Neither Tanalasta nor Alusair have anything to do with the deity that protects and extends the life of their grandfather - Tanalasta was quite devoted to Chauntea (who is the most likely deity to have helped Tanalasta give birth so easily under extremely trying conditions), and I believe Alusair follows Torm.

As for the seeming longevity of Filfaeril herself, I don't know. Perhaps she has something in her blood that preserves her (though it has been said that her beauty is slowly fading), or maybe she just has the latest concoctions available from the Church of Sune.

Really, what it comes down to is I don't know, and I'm just making speculations. But even with an extended life span, they're still human and therefore they would still mature at the same rate... Well you'd hope so anyway, or else people would notice and start to make all kinds of assumptions as to why this 37 year old human looks and behaves like a 20 year old! Also you'd be asking why is Azoun V still in nappies at oh 7 years old.

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  10:05:47  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message
I just have to give Ed further Kudo's on his Thor analogies. The one epic "Ragnarok" storyline that Walt Simonson wrote (THE FIRST TIME Odin disappeared) lost so much of its impact as other writers used Ragnarok as a plot device to "spice things up" when Thor's sales were down.

It reminds me of all the RSEs, obviously, becuase each one may be well written idividually, but taken as a whole, they have so much less impact.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1071 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  12:41:13  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by RevJest

quote:
Originally posted by Zandilar


quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack

First off for Zandilar:

If I recall correctly, Alusair was born in 1335 DR. Thus, she's approaching the big 4 0. Can't wait to see how she handles that or a nephew who is popular with the young ladies in a decade or so.



That would make her 37 in 1372 DR. So, time is also running out for her to have a child of her own (without going into full details, pregnancy becomes more risky, and more prone to problems the older a woman gets). I know Tanalasta had a miraculously easy pregnancy for her first one (at 37 or so herself), and especially in the manner in which she gave birth (I suspect divine assistance)...


I suspect that the royal sisters have longer lifespans than the average human, given their mother's seeming good health and beauty at her advanced age. After all, when your Grandfather is ...

- RJ


When their grandfather is who?

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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Krafus
Learned Scribe

246 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  14:51:21  Show Profile  Visit Krafus's Homepage  Send Krafus an AOL message Send Krafus a Private Message
Hello Ed and THO,

I was rereading my old copy of Spellfire yesterday, and I suddenly recalled a passage from it, or maybe Crown of Fire, where, IIRC, Elminster mentioned Shandril facing hourly visits from the likes of Manshoon, Ghalaster of Thay and another very powerful spellcasting villain. My question is, who is/was Ghalaster of Thay?

Thank you for your time, both of you. I love being able to ask questions of the Realms' creator...
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  14:51:24  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by khorne
When their grandfather is who?



khorne,

Check out this thread. It contains the information as to who is being referred to.

SB
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  15:01:14  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Ed, just a quick question based on your home campaigns...

We know that from some of your previous postings at other locations online, the Lowlantern Lutes were "last seen busily fleecing rich Sembians." You also stated that they "presumably are still at it."

I was just curious as to whether they've been encountered by the Knights of Myth Drannor (or anyone else) in your home 'Realms' campaign since?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7915 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  16:14:03  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message
Also don't forget, for those discussing the age factor, that Ed still uses longevity magic, which has mostly been written out in 3/3.5e. :) Potions, fountain, etc.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

My Goodreads page: http://www.goodreads.com/kuje

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4280 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2005 :  22:30:33  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message
Well waiting for other reply, I wish to ask an additional question.


It is clear that Lolth, may the light take her, has killed or transformed all of her male Clerics/Priests in the transition from 2nd to 3rd Edition. There however stays the question of "What of the Children"

I know I am asking for a game revision answer that are not normally within your preview, that the bean counters decide such matters.

F&P is not clear enough to me as to if the son or daughter accepts members of the other sex as Clerics or Priest/ess . Perhaps you could provide your or an official ruling on this matter?

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2005 :  00:16:13  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Si, Ed replies to your query: “If we take the armed forces of Cormyr and Waterdeep as examples (since I know Ed likes specifics in questions) what sort of insignia do they use for Ranks, length of service Marks (if any) and Decorations for valour on their uniforms/armour?”
Ed speaks:



Sorry, Si, but the Watch and Guard of Waterdeep are currently NDA (something [cough] to do with Waterdeep products and web support appearing this summer, so you [cough] shouldn’t have to wait TOO long). Moreover, a BIG current NDA is going to trammel my pen when replying to you about the stalwarts of Cormyr, too, but let me say this much:
When in battle armour, Purple Dragons display nothing that demonstrates length of service. They do have identifying rank marks, and they do win ‘dragonstars’ (medals, consisting of a decoration pendant dangling from an ornate metal chain, some chains being worn around the neck and some over the shoulder [so the pendant hangs low on the chest next to one arm or the other]) for valour, but these are worn only on ‘state dress’ occasions (revels, when courting or being wed, and when at Court), NEVER in battle. Often Obarskyrs haven’t worn crowns or circlets when armoured and in the saddle. As for specifics: sorry, NDA right now. I really am sorry, and in a little more than a month hope to be able to tell you a little bit more.



So saith Ed. Ho-ho, your probe strikes into something SECRET . . .
curiouser and curiouser, as the actress said when unbuttoning buttons not her own - -
ahem.
love to all,
THO
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2005 :  11:06:41  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
was he the one that could build golems the size of mountains? (or somewhat similar quote?)

Damian

quote:
Originally posted by Krafus

Hello Ed and THO,

the likes of Manshoon, Ghalaster of Thay and another very powerful spellcasting villain. My question is, who is/was Ghalaster of Thay?



So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
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