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Faraer
Great Reader

3229 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2004 :  00:22:50  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
...

I don't know whether the Realms had psionics, or something like it, pre-D&D. I can easily imagine either case. Their existence is not fundamental to the Realms as is, for instance, the existence of rogues, magic, or weather. It is presumably as much part of the Realms, though, as are hobgoblins, or Tenser's floating disc, or drow, or other elements imported from D&D.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26526 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2004 :  00:36:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

...

I don't know whether the Realms had psionics, or something like it, pre-D&D. I can easily imagine either case. Their existence is not fundamental to the Realms as is, for instance, the existence of rogues, magic, or weather. It is presumably as much part of the Realms, though, as are hobgoblins, or Tenser's floating disc, or drow, or other elements imported from D&D.



Well, there's an easy way to find out...

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
3546 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2004 :  02:51:12  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Hmm... I would have much preferred something along the lines of a "new era punctuated by the dawning of the Invisible Art," previously accessed only through godly gifts and through natural flukes in species breeding, but now fully organized and determined to carve itself a place within Faerun...

But no... I'm guessing that explaining psionics through some ancient, previously forgotten but now rediscovered history trivia bit would make much, much more sense!



What you prefer is exactly that. Just because the Realms in its 17 years of products and novels hasn't developed an aspect of the D&D game as you'd "prefer" is not something for you to be rolling your eyes at. Creativity is an individual thing and you are dealing with lots of gamers and designers whose creative decisions don't obviously gel with yours. No doubt they'd at some of the stuff you've done over the years.

Oh, and for more psionic backstory, see "Secrets of the Magister", p.64.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1752 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2004 :  04:30:15  Show Profile  Visit Purple Dragon Knight's Homepage  Click to see Purple Dragon Knight's MSN Messenger address Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Hmm... I would have much preferred something along the lines of a "new era punctuated by the dawning of the Invisible Art," previously accessed only through godly gifts and through natural flukes in species breeding, but now fully organized and determined to carve itself a place within Faerun...

But no... I'm guessing that explaining psionics through some ancient, previously forgotten but now rediscovered history trivia bit would make much, much more sense!



What you prefer is exactly that. Just because the Realms in its 17 years of products and novels hasn't developed an aspect of the D&D game as you'd "prefer" is not something for you to be rolling your eyes at. Creativity is an individual thing and you are dealing with lots of gamers and designers whose creative decisions don't obviously gel with yours. No doubt they'd at some of the stuff you've done over the years.

Oh, and for more psionic backstory, see "Secrets of the Magister", p.64.

-- George Krashos


Creativity? pardon me, but I must again

I have an immense respect for all FR designers, but when it comes to psionics in the Realms, sorry, I can't help but thinking about the accountants behind the scheme... either develop a good story behind it, or leave 'em out of the Realms. As I've said many times in this thread already, this is all IMHO (In My Humble Opinion), so please don't take it as an attack on the designers, and please don't attack me personally for having this opinion. Thank you.

Also, thank you for the "Secrets of the Magister" reference.

PDK,
making a stand at 3.5, and stopping at 1375 DR

----------------
Originally posted by Uzzy
"I do not have access to unlimited funds, but even if I did, I wouldn't want to pay for sourcebooks for which I would have zero use, just because they have the Forgotten Realms written on the cover."
"Paizo is just plain better. Besides, they are still supporting my game of choice. WoTC spellplagued my campaign of choice."
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Bakra
Senior Scribe

593 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2004 :  18:00:41  Show Profile Send Bakra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To answer the original question, yes we have been using it since the orginal box set came out many years ago.

I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe

USA
455 Posts

Posted - 13 Dec 2004 :  20:41:39  Show Profile  Visit Mystery_Man's Homepage Send Mystery_Man a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra

To answer the original question, yes we have been using it since the orginal box set came out many years ago.



To what extent then has it effected your campaigns good or bad?
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1561 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2004 :  18:53:43  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I don't have a problem at all with psionics in the Realms, as long as we don't call them 'psionics'!

As Faraer mentioned, the "Invisible Art" seems a much more Realmsian description and fit. I'd say that the Realms are due for a psionics boost and the bedrock for psionic characters, at least from an ancestry/historical point of view, might not be far away at all.

-- George Krashos




For some reason, this bounced back forward in my brain this morning, and some book titles from the Realms provide some sense of history for this.....

Seven Invisibile (copy at Candlekeep; 1 of 7 copies)
written c.1300 DR by Argathual of Suzail
Re: seven historical figures (Varath the Everseeing, Erris of Tempath, Whyrrill Donnsler of Ravens' Bluff, Gaastul Three-Eyes, Prince Nasrull of Impiltur, Xyrr of Trailsend, and Gavain the Seer of Palischuk) and their use of the Invisible Art in Cormyr and lands north of the Inner Sea (the Vast, Impiltur)

To See without Eyes (original ms in Candlekeep; 4 copies)
written c.1212 DR by Siallor the Sorcerer
re: descriptions of psionic sight/clairvoyance/psychometrics; author was a sorcerer who lost his eyes in battle with Banites and his lover, a worker of the Invisible Art, gave him a new type of eyes through her power.

The Invisibilicum
written c. 1358 DR by Bharakas of Deepingdale, a former adventurer and scholar and acolyte/worshiper of Oghma
Collated lore of 400 years of rumors and myths about psionics and the Invisible Art covering 800-1200 DR; allegedly a scribe (and former apprentice of Bharakas) in Yhaunn works away on a second volume to cover the years since then.


For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Bakra
Senior Scribe

593 Posts

Posted - 14 Dec 2004 :  23:03:55  Show Profile Send Bakra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elf_Friend

quote:
Originally posted by Bakra

To answer the original question, yes we have been using it since the orginal box set came out many years ago.



To what extent then has it effected your campaigns good or bad?


It really depends on the Player, the last psionic character was very good and effected the campaign in positive ways. We all laughed and cried because of that certain drunken halfing.

I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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the psychotic seaotter
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2005 :  17:26:54  Show Profile  Visit the psychotic seaotter's Homepage  Send the psychotic seaotter a Yahoo! Message Send the psychotic seaotter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just wanted to point out that Page 6 of Forgotten Realms Adventures removes Psionics from FR. Yes I know that was 2e but at one point they officially did not exist in FR.

Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...

The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26526 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2005 :  00:44:26  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter

I just wanted to point out that Page 6 of Forgotten Realms Adventures removes Psionics from FR. Yes I know that was 2e but at one point they officially did not exist in FR.



They removed them because at that point, there were no rules for psionics in AD&D. Psionics slid back into the Realms after the 2E Complete Psionics Handbook came out.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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the psychotic seaotter
Learned Scribe

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2005 :  06:42:02  Show Profile  Visit the psychotic seaotter's Homepage  Send the psychotic seaotter a Yahoo! Message Send the psychotic seaotter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by the psychotic seaotter

I just wanted to point out that Page 6 of Forgotten Realms Adventures removes Psionics from FR. Yes I know that was 2e but at one point they officially did not exist in FR.



They removed them because at that point, there were no rules for psionics in AD&D. Psionics slid back into the Realms after the 2E Complete Psionics Handbook came out.




This may be so but it does proove Psionics has had a 'there, not there" history in the realms.

Run run as fast as you can you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man...

The Arcane Brotherhood, Wizards of the Sword Coast.
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1007 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2005 :  15:58:11  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
During the Time of Troubles, the Invisible Art was unaffected. Psion House Oblodra, seized upon the weakness of Lloth's priests and gained power in Menzoberranzan, for a time. Upon the conclusion of the godswar however, House Oblodra lost their psionic connection. The tables were turned. The priests of Lloth lead by Matron Baenre, sacked House Oblodra, assassinating most within.

During this time, Psionics still existed in the Realms, only changed. Psions merely needed to explore a new path to tap the Invisible Art. Illithids as race, for example, were very quick in reestablishing the link. Other races took weeks or months before their Psions were once again able to harness their inner weave.

Salvatore explained this phenomenon very nicely in his novel Siege of Darkness.

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
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Nahalil
Acolyte

Canada
1 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2005 :  19:48:10  Show Profile  Visit Nahalil's Homepage  Send Nahalil an AOL message  Click to see Nahalil's MSN Messenger address Send Nahalil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
put me in for monsters yes pcs very very rarely.
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4372 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2005 :  23:13:32  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well sports fans

LEOF certainly brings Psionics back and gives them a bit of History in th Realms

The Nation of Jhaamdath was founded by Psionic users and was actually run as Psiocracy until the Bladelords where overthrown by the Emperor

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
231 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2005 :  01:10:18  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted yes, mainly to keep the original psionic natures of creatures that possessed the Invisible Art intact. The inclusion of MACs and MTHAC0s in 2e also sealed the deal for me. All psionic FR creatures are unique and fresh again imo.


Finally, a game where loss matters again.
http://trialsofascension.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
26526 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2005 :  03:08:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

Well sports fans

LEOF certainly brings Psionics back and gives them a bit of History in th Realms

The Nation of Jhaamdath was founded by Psionic users and was actually run as Psiocracy until the Bladelords where overthrown by the Emperor



Really? That's quite interesting... Dang, I wish the book would hurry up and come out over here!

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader

USA
7106 Posts

Posted - 13 Feb 2005 :  05:56:04  Show Profile  Visit Rinonalyrna Fathomlin's Homepage Send Rinonalyrna Fathomlin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted yes...actually reading about psionics in a novel--Venom's Taste--increased my interest in it.

"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time)
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe

USA
466 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2005 :  22:07:06  Show Profile  Visit VEDSICA's Homepage Send VEDSICA a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never had a character that used them because I didn't like them.I always liked wizards,and thieves.But fellow players have used them,and to be honest I still didn't like them.

LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe

USA
544 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2005 :  00:19:27  Show Profile  Visit Ardashir's Homepage Send Ardashir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos


Well, if you believe in the comic book theory of 'retroactive continuity' the upcoming "Lost Empires of Faerun" sourcebook will give you psionics in the Realms from along time ago, thus providing historical substance to its 'existence'.

-- George Krashos




I got the idea (from LE) that while psionics was heavily used in certain places and at certain times, it just never expanded much beyond them. (Probably a combo of desire to avoid competition & simple wariness on the part of others -- "They've got powers like the Mind Flayers and Yuan Ti. Now, I'm not saying that they really ARE Flayers or serpentfolk, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised...")

Add in what happened to the Jhaamdath Psilords, and it's no wonder most surface races aren't very fond of psionics.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5377 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2005 :  18:46:41  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've never had many players that really wanted to play a psionic character (even when we were playing Dark Sun!) but I have always "included" them becuase certain iconic monsters such as Aboleth and Illithids just don't seem the same when you warp their powers into spell like ablities. Psionics helps to make them more alien.

"Because philosophy arises from awe, a philosopher is bound in his way to be a lover of myths and poetic fables. Poets and philosophers are alike in being big with wonder."--Saint Thomas Aquinas

http://knighterrantjr.blogspot.com/

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Kiralari
Acolyte

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2005 :  02:12:05  Show Profile  Visit Kiralari's Homepage  Click to see Kiralari's MSN Messenger address Send Kiralari a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really had to vote yes here, but I do agree that I don't like the flashyness and showman quality that it's been given. I don't really like calling it Psionics either, since that does indeed seem to lean toward a scientific view of it in a way. I prefer to think of it as a special class of sorcerer or wizard. And as such, I let my gamers have free choice of it, with a few DM mod's a course. I tone down the flashyness, I balance out the powers for combat/non-combat, and I make the gamer come up with a good story for why his/her character is a psionicist. I do, however, totally approve of psionic creatures like the illithid, since it was used already as an example.
Cheers Everyone!

Always be prepared. If it rains, be prepared. If a bear chases you, be prepared. If you get attacked by drunken Hoosiers, be prepared.
~~Love Ya!
~~Ann
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe

USA
299 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2005 :  20:21:58  Show Profile  Visit Fletcher's Homepage Send Fletcher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Psionics have been in campains I have both played in and run.
In games I run, if a player wants to be a psionicist, they can be one, but they have to roll randomly from a list of powers I choose.
It was difficult to manage in 2nd ed, but in 3.x psionics are much easier to understand and control. I personally like the idea of psionic magic items, they are cool.
I have no problem with any person becoming a psionic character any more. The rules work out pretty well, but I still would restrict who could use them and what powers they were able to obtain. Some player/GM negotiations here.
It definitely changes the mood of the game to have a player with psionics. It is such a rare power in the realms that people often don't know how to react to a psionicist.
"Stay out of my head you freak!" But if the GM is careful, and the player isn't one to try to abuse the powers it can lend a distinct spice to your game. The powers that the psions have can be quite unique, and if used properly they are great fun!

Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up!
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Thente Thunderspells
Seeker

USA
65 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2005 :  18:02:49  Show Profile  Send Thente Thunderspells an AOL message  Click to see Thente Thunderspells's MSN Messenger address  Send Thente Thunderspells a Yahoo! Message Send Thente Thunderspells a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I as a player love psionics, my problem is finding a DM who is willing to use it, especially in the Realms. Most DM's i've encountered don't like the system so they wont' include it...sigh.

As for the flashy/whistles and bells mentioned on page one, i've always hated that as well. I thought it would be a good idea if those effects where on the "mental realm". So if you're psionic you could see/hear those effects, but non-psionicists couldn't at all.

It would make a cool way to introduce a psionic/wild talent character or even to give the character a wild talent. Then make them do in game research to figure out what is "wrong" with their character

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- Shakespeare
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Kuje
Great Reader

USA
7889 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2005 :  18:13:55  Show Profile  Send Kuje an AOL message  Click to see Kuje's MSN Messenger address  Send Kuje a Yahoo! Message Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thente ThunderspellsIt would make a cool way to introduce a psionic/wild talent character or even to give the character a wild talent. Then make them do in game research to figure out what is "wrong" with their character



The "problem" with the new wild talents is that it takes at least 2 feats to get one talent. You need the wild talent feat and then another feat on top of that to just get the talent itself. And the talent's bite compared to the old wild talents. :)

Of course you can chuck that out and change it, which is what I did because I hate that you have to spend two feats.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Edited by - Kuje on 13 May 2005 18:14:55
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader

USA
5517 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2005 :  19:02:50  Show Profile  Visit SiriusBlack's Homepage Send SiriusBlack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thente Thunderspells

I as a player love psionics, my problem is finding a DM who is willing to use it, especially in the Realms. Most DM's i've encountered don't like the system so they wont' include it...sigh.


That's unfortunate. As previously mentioned, I've never been passioante about psionics. But, if a player approached me with a desire to incorporate psionics into her/his character, I'd work with the player to get this desire into the game.
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