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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 03:41:54
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Hello there.
What are some recurring misconceptions about The Forgotten Realms that continue to stick in your craw? I know that "Everyone in the Realms is a high level NPC" is an exaggeration which is readily disproven, but surely there are others.
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Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 05:24:23
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The four that bug me the most:
1) Mystra is good-aligned and so this is a horrible broken thing!
2) There's no need for adventurers because the Chosen of Mystra can take care of everything on their own!
3) Lord Ginsu is the best fighter in the entire setting!
4) The entire setting revolves around Lord Ginsu, or Elminster, or both. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 05:58:09
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| The misconception that bugs me the most is that the Forgotten Realms is only Drizzt/Salvatore's novels. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 06:14:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
1) Mystra is good-aligned and so this is a horrible broken thing!
I wonder if that is in any way related to the mildly critical query that goes something like following: "Why is the Good-aligned goddess of magic allowing evil beings access to magic?" |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 09:48:56
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| Not a specific thing, but I can say I hated the cross-over thought process at WOTC. For example, they just did the MTG Forgotten Realms set. It includes Mordenkainen ffs. Just a mess. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 12:52:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Not a specific thing, but I can say I hated the cross-over thought process at WOTC. For example, they just did the MTG Forgotten Realms set. It includes Mordenkainen ffs. Just a mess.
Future misconception: "Oh, The Forgotten Realms? You mean that Magic: The Gathering expansion set?"
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Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
502 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 13:39:52
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Using search engines has already become 10x harder with that horrible MTG set, and I love MTG. Hell I even toyed with trying to a similar type of cross pollination, but I gave up when it quickly became obvious the two were basically fundamentally incompatible.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
2) There's no need for adventurers because the Chosen of Mystra can take care of everything on their own!
Also this. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 14:20:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
Using search engines has already become 10x harder with that horrible MTG set
I feel much the same whenever a subpar/shoddy film adaptation of a beloved intellectual property is announced. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 15:22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
When people ask "what god does he worship".
The answer is always "all of them" unless they are a priest. Although if real world religious obedience of the laity in the middle ages is approximate to FR then actually the answer is none of them (they just pay lip service).
Who? Who is "he"?  . |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 15:23:12
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quote:
3) Lord Ginsu is the best fighter in the entire setting!
Lord Ginsu is the best bookseller in the entire setting! |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 15:57:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
1) Mystra is good-aligned and so this is a horrible broken thing!
I wonder if that is in any way related to the mildly critical query that goes something like following: "Why is the Good-aligned goddess of magic allowing evil beings access to magic?"
Most people that cite Mystra's alignment think that since she's good, she actively nerfs non-good magic use, and that's why it's horrible for her to have an alignment other than neutral.
These folks ignore all the other good-aligned deities that control things that can benefit non-neutral folks, like having the sun rise or edible things growing for them. I've never heard anyone say that Chauntea nerfs crop growth in Thay or that the sun doesn't rise over Zhentil Keep. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1155 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 16:23:27
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Sticking, seeing, or arguing how Forgotten Realms cultures/regions work according to real-world cultures (even the ones that were added by TSR that were actually based-off real-world cultures or teleported in directly).
I'm sure I have more but I'll let others remind me.  |
Edited by - questing gm on 12 Sep 2021 16:25:38 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 17:52:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've never heard anyone say that Chauntea nerfs crop growth in Thay or that the sun doesn't rise over Zhentil Keep.
Why do you think the Thayans hate all of the other peoples of the Realms? Chauntea only gives them that horrible brocoli, while the Waterdhavian get all the juicy tomatoes. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 19:26:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've never heard anyone say that Chauntea nerfs crop growth in Thay or that the sun doesn't rise over Zhentil Keep.
Why do you think the Thayans hate all of the other peoples of the Realms? Chauntea only gives them that horrible brocoli, while the Waterdhavian get all the juicy tomatoes.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 21:53:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
3) Lord Ginsu is the best fighter in the entire setting!
Lord Ginsu is the best bookseller in the entire setting!
As far as I can tell, the Purple-Eyed Cuisinart is the only bookseller in the setting, at least for novels. Not at all bothering to buy Starfall Enclave. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 22:07:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Not a specific thing, but I can say I hated the cross-over thought process at WOTC. For example, they just did the MTG Forgotten Realms set. It includes Mordenkainen ffs. Just a mess.
Future misconception: "Oh, The Forgotten Realms? You mean that Magic: The Gathering expansion set?"
.
Ao help us if WoTC/Hasbro sell the IP to Disney. |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 22:30:23
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I would like to consolidate the points the scribes mentioned above into two key themes:
1. IDGAF
2. FR is too complicated for new fans (customers if you will)
These two points are interconnected by what I see as the common fallacy: That is, a new FR fan must somehow master the lore before even attempting to play.
By the same token, new players need to respect the counsel proffered by older, more seasoned players. If the veterans learned FR through years of steady effort/study, so can new players. No shortcuts exist.
I have no problem with "starter kits" and in fact encourage them for new players. The problem comes when these simplifications are conflated with the full deal and also when new players are not introduced to the proper application of the unreliable narrator.
New players should not feel any pressure to master the lore or crunch even within a year. There should be no stigma attached to players making mistakes and facing the consequences. They will make better decisions in future sessions. |
Edited by - Delnyn on 12 Sep 2021 22:34:40 |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2021 : 23:56:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
1) Mystra is good-aligned and so this is a horrible broken thing!
I wonder if that is in any way related to the mildly critical query that goes something like following: "Why is the Good-aligned goddess of magic allowing evil beings access to magic?"
Most people that cite Mystra's alignment think that since she's good, she actively nerfs non-good magic use, and that's why it's horrible for her to have an alignment other than neutral.
These folks ignore all the other good-aligned deities that control things that can benefit non-neutral folks, like having the sun rise or edible things growing for them. I've never heard anyone say that Chauntea nerfs crop growth in Thay or that the sun doesn't rise over Zhentil Keep.
What's the alternative? Every god is Neutral-aligned? That's interesting and I may not object to playing in such a setting, but it wouldn't be The Forgotten Realms. Another example that comes to mind is Umberlee; the Bitch Queen has dominion over the oceans, but it's not in her interest to make her aquatic expanse completely inimical to land-dwelling life.
quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
I would like to consolidate the points the scribes mentioned above into two key themes:
1. IDGAF
2. FR is too complicated for new fans (customers if you will)
These two points are interconnected by what I see as the common fallacy: That is, a new FR fan must somehow master the lore before even attempting to play.
By the same token, new players need to respect the counsel proffered by older, more seasoned players. If the veterans learned FR through years of steady effort/study, so can new players. No shortcuts exist.
I have no problem with "starter kits" and in fact encourage them for new players. The problem comes when these simplifications are conflated with the full deal and also when new players are not introduced to the proper application of the unreliable narrator.
New players should not feel any pressure to master the lore or crunch even within a year. There should be no stigma attached to players making mistakes and facing the consequences. They will make better decisions in future sessions.
Oh, no doubt. Look, a certain degree of ignorance is to be expected. No one - barring the unreasonable folks - believe that newcomers to this fan base will be fully-versed on every salient setting detail. That said, certain bits of misinformation are still going to chafe worse than others  . |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 00:18:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
3) Lord Ginsu is the best fighter in the entire setting!
Lord Ginsu is the best bookseller in the entire setting!
As far as I can tell, the Purple-Eyed Cuisinart is the only bookseller in the setting, at least for novels. Not at all bothering to buy Starfall Enclave.
Okay, I gotta say, "Purple-Eyed Cuisinart" is an awesome descriptor! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 00:40:13
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-Everything has already been detailed and there's no room for people to make their own stuff.
-Related, I guess, the notion that a DM must literally consume every piece of product available in order to make a game and that every player is some maniacal neckbeard who "ackshuallies" that same DM the moment he/she makes a mistake. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 13 Sep 2021 00:42:26 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 00:49:00
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I think, for me, a "problem" with the Realms is the weird status it has. It's sort of the de-facto "flagship" setting. And sort of the de-facto "core" setting. Sometimes proudly (and half-officially) embraced as the prominent iconic D&D setting. Sometimes relegated to a sort of half-unrecognized backseat baggage setting. And it's the testing ground for every new, old, wonderful, beautiful, terrible, awful idea or fashion that WotC invents. They keep moving it forward to embrace profound changes ("which were always there all along") without bothering to consider how such stuff should properly impact the setting as it is (and as it was). So it's become a polluted, diluted, broken dumping ground for All Things D&D. Almost like a beta setting which never gets debugged.
There was once a time when the Realms was carefully crafted and cultivated. Many things didn't enter Realmslore because it was understood that they just wouldn't (or shouldn't) fit, such things were inserted into other settings which were sometimes deliberately kept completely disconnected from the Realms. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 01:15:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Everything has already been detailed and there's no room for people to make their own stuff.
This is an unfortunate falsity that is only fed into by Wizards of the Coast's notoriously risk-averse habits.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Related, I guess, the notion that a DM must literally consume every piece of product available in order to make a game and that every player is some maniacal neckbeard who "ackshuallies" that same DM the moment he/she makes a mistake.
A few bad apples, maybe?
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think, for me, a "problem" with the Realms is the weird status it has. It's sort of the de-facto "flagship" setting. And sort of the de-facto "core" setting. Sometimes proudly (and half-officially) embraced as the prominent iconic D&D setting.
Do you think the Greyhawk fans want the title back  ?
Seriously speaking, however, your sentiment has its appeal. I too pine for the days when Toril was popular but jusssst out of the spotlight compared to Oerth. Around the tail-end of 3.5e was when WOTC decided to push for the Realms to become the canon default D&D setting. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 03:15:14
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quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
Sticking, seeing, or arguing how Forgotten Realms cultures/regions work according to real-world cultures (even the ones that were added by TSR that were actually based-off real-world cultures or teleported in directly).
Yeah, I guess this one would be mine, if I have one. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 15:14:05
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That Leira was actually killed by Cyric instead of the truth that she simply hid herself within Godsbane (the two gods working together) and then slowly used herself to create the Cyrinishad. [:D}
That all red wizards were irredeemably evil and that there weren't a large swathe of the population that were just worker bees, loyal nationalists, etc... (i.e. see Aoth Fezim).
That the Shaar "collapsed into the underdark" as a result of the spellplague rather than just transferring to Abeir and returning. Similar misconceptions with portions of the Wizard's Reach, Chessenta, etc... sinking beneath the inner sea.
That the majority of the witches of Rashemen were all heart of gold good, rather than the truth that there were a large number of them, especially amongst the durthans, that were hags hiding behind their masks.
In short, I like my realms full of a lot of gray.... good sometimes isn't all that good, and evil isn't always absolutely evil. What "everyone knows" may just be a lie to hide the truth.
And yes, I know this doesn't really fit the intent of this thread, but it is something that I do get irritated with. There's the "realms as written" in my book and "the realms as I feel it really should be". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 13 Sep 2021 15:16:44 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 15:25:46
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| We should prolly keep this focused on misconceptions about the published setting, instead of focusing on how each of us feels the Realms should be -- because that's an entirely different topic and there would be a ton of different answers, there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Delnyn
Senior Scribe
USA
890 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 21:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Everything has already been detailed and there's no room for people to make their own stuff.
-Related, I guess, the notion that a DM must literally consume every piece of product available in order to make a game and that every player is some maniacal neckbeard who "ackshuallies" that same DM the moment he/she makes a mistake.
I wonder what would happen if you presented a globe of Toril (not just Faerun) and ask them to roughly outline the detailed area of their campaign. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2021 : 22:35:00
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| Closely related is the erroneous belief that "You must adhere to the officially published Forgotten Realms novels.". Good googly moogly, not every novel radically reshaped the Realms and those that did (the Avatar trilogy) are often included as bullet points in official game supplements. The work is already done for you. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2021 : 01:40:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Delnyn
I wonder what would happen if you presented a globe of Toril (not just Faerun) and ask them to roughly outline the detailed area of their campaign.
-It's been years since the last time I looked at a Forgotten Realms map, or had reason to need to remember this stuff, but I could point out Chult...and that's about it. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1287 Posts |
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Kelcimer
Learned Scribe
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2021 : 05:47:12
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas In short, I like my realms full of a lot of gray.... good sometimes isn't all that good, and evil isn't always absolutely evil. What "everyone knows" may just be a lie to hide the truth.
And yes, I know this doesn't really fit the intent of this thread, but it is something that I do get irritated with. There's the "realms as written" in my book and "the realms as I feel it really should be".
I agree. |
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Topic |
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Pet peeves: misconceptions about the Realms?
