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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Feb 2021 : 23:42:02
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From Dragon+ Magaize "Much like Thanos’ quest to complete his jewelry collection in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft may have been “inevitable”, as Design Lead F. Wesley Schneider describes his colleagues as “a team full of horror fans who absolutely love Ravenloft.” Following the successes of Curse of Strahd (blending gothic horror and D&D), Eberron: Rising from the Last War (steampunk plus D&D), and Mythic Odysseys of Theros (Greek myth meets D&D), bundling together every possible flavor of horror with the world’s greatest roleplaying game should scratch a similar itch.
“Dungeons & Dragons has always been a horror game,” Wes suggests. “Grabbing a sword, going into a creepy hole full of monsters, and not knowing whether you’re going to come back out alive: That’s absolutely a horror story.”
When it comes to horror, there’s no better D&D setting than Ravenloft. DMs and players might be most familiar with the setting’s most famous corner, the domain of Barovia, having campaigned against the infamous vampire Count Strahd von Zarovich. Yet the horrors that lurk in the Domains of Dread that make up Ravenloft are widespread. As outlined in the early boxed sets (Ravenloft: Realm of Terror and Ravenloft) and the second edition campaign setting Ravenloft: Domains of Dread (first published in August 1997), Ravenloft is not a world in the traditional sense. This setting was described as a collection of domains ruled by Darklords, each surrounded by magical mists amid the vapors of the Ethereal Plane.
As its title suggests, Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft looks beyond Strahd to catalogue the threats posed by the other domains and their Darklords. While you might expect it to be written in the voice of famed monster hunter Dr. Rudolph van Richten, similar to how Volo and the Xanathar would pipe up in their guides, the book borrows from the pages of Dracula to introduce Ravenloft’s terrors with correspondence between several different characters.
“Van Richten traces his roots back to Van Helsing from Dracula—a story comprised entirely of correspondence and journal entries,” Wes explains. “Now that our view of Ravenloft is expanding, we share a glimpse of some of van Richten’s own exchanges with other heroes as he encourages them—and also all the players out there—to venture out boldly and confront the night.”
HORROR HANDBOOK
Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft cracks open more than just the gothic horror crypt. Gothic horror is, of course, still a major element of Ravenloft, but cosmic horror, dark fantasy, ghost stories, occult detective stories, psychological horror, and more are now on the table. If you love any sort of horror, there’s a Domain of Dread for you.
“Finding the horror that’s right for you is a major element of the book. Your horror stories might feature cartoonish investigators hunting down mysterious monsters, or they might be more serious, suspenseful nightmares. The book discusses how to get your entire group involved in establishing guidelines and using safety tools to make sure everyone’s comfortable and enjoys the game. We provide frameworks to help make sure your horror adventures are fun, accessible, and safe, while also supporting players who voice concerns if things take an uncomfortable turn.”
THE DOMAINS OF DREAD
“This incarnation of Ravenloft reimagines a great deal of what came before. Past explorations of the setting directly linked many of the domains of Ravenloft into a pseudo-continent called the ‘Core’. We’ve taken the Core, the heart of the Ravenloft setting, and shattered it. In this new interpretation, every domain is a lonely island drifting through the mists.
“Many of the domains get a modern-day brush up. We took the setting’s characters, locations, monsters, and other pieces, shook them up, and took some new directions. For example, in the ’90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime ruled by a Darklord named Vlad Drakov, who had a Vlad the Impaler vibe. Well, we already have a Vlad-type figure in residence at Castle Ravenloft in Barovia, so we saw this as the perfect opportunity to give the domain a stronger identity and embrace a different brand of horror. In its new form, Falkovnia is ruled by a Darklord named Vladeska Drakov, a notorious military commander who’s struggling to defend its last surviving city against a domain-wide zombie apocalypse.”
BUILD YOUR OWN DARK DOMAIN
“Well over a dozen domains get the spotlight in Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft, but with a whole chapter on making your own domains and Darklords, the book gives you the tools to unleash an infinite number of nightmare realms upon your game.
“In that chapter, we discuss the fundamentals of what makes a Ravenloft domain and how to create your own Darklord. Once you have those concepts, we explore a spectrum of horror genres to help inspire your own unique creations. Want a villain with a body horror vibe in a cosmic horror setting where you can run occult detective stories? We give you the tools to build that terrifying story. Only once we’ve explained how to do all of that do we present domain after domain, by way of example.”
(Select to view)
HERE BE MONSTERS
“The bestiary for Ravenloft is a Who’s Who of horror. It includes our favorite nightmares from Ravenloft’s past, as well as beings from folklore and urban legends. For example, longtime D&D fans might recognize monsters such as the carrionette and the gremishka from the second edition Ravenloft Monstrous Compendiums.
“Carrionettes are creepy marionettes that jab you with silver needles and swap consciousness with you, taking over your body and stranding you in a doll body! While gremishka are creepy gremlin-things that are allergic to magic. If you cast a spell on them, they might have an adverse reaction that includes potentially exploding into a swarm.
Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft also includes a number of new takes on various D&D monsters and horror staples, including a variety of new zombies and vampiric mind flayers.”
(Select to view)
PLAYABLE MONSTERS
“Eberron: Rising from the Last War pulled a sideways horror move by including a construct person, a lycanthrope, and even a changeling, giving its race section a horror undercurrent,” Wes says, as he confirms that the Gothic Lineages published in Unearthed Arcana will appear in Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft.
“The fear of corruption, the fear of infection, the fear of change, those all play fascinating parts in many horror stories. Van Richten’s Guide presents three new types of races called ‘lineages’ that play into those fears.
“The dhampir lineage has traits inspired by vampires, with a bite attack and the ability to feed off the living; the hexblood is tied up with fey magic and might be at risk of transforming into a hag down the road; while the reborn has died at some point and might take the form of a pseudo-undead creature or a Frankenstein’s monster-style construct.
“One thing that makes these lineages different from other races is that you can gain them in the course of adventures. DMs aren’t meant to impose these changes on players, but if an adventure develops in a way that such a change makes sense, it’s a new—potentially terrifying—option the group might explore!”
(Select to view)
DARK GIFTS
“In Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft, we present Dark Gifts. If you’re familiar with the ‘Piety’ system in Mythic Odysseys of Theros, you’ll be aware of its supernatural gifts. These are blessings from deities which provide a kind of mythologically themed superpower. Van Richten’s Guide takes a twist on that concept, allowing characters to start out with a Dark Gift or gain one in the course of play.
“A Dark Gift is a horror-themed ability that offers a character a lot of upside. But, of course, there’s a catch. Every Dark Gift provides a real benefit, but also a chance for something to take a sinister turn you didn’t expect.
“For example, one Dark Gift provides you with memories from your past life, whispers of information you really shouldn’t know. Sometimes these can be great—maybe you’ve never played the piano before but somehow when you sit down at the keyboard you can now play. By the same token, under certain circumstances, you might start having visions from past lives that distract you from what you’re doing.
“Many Dark Gifts also provide grim roleplaying opportunities and ways to customize your character. You could certainly take those memories I just mentioned and say they come from a past life. Or you could interpret them in a spectrum of different ways. Is there some mysterious intelligence that’s been merged with your own? Or is an alien entity communicating with you, sneaking memories into your head? It’s your choice. Each Dark Gift is the first line of a horror story. It’s up to you to decide the full tale of terror you want to tell.”
Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft is released May 18, 2021 with an MSRP of $49.95. Preorder a physical copy at your local game store, bookstores such as Barnes & Noble, or online at retailers such as Amazon. Also available as a digital version at D&D Beyond, Fantasy Grounds, and Roll20."
They shattered the Core of Ravenloft, I can believe it, even the Spellplague didn't do that much damage to its repective setting, same with that Saga thing that happened to Dragonlance. Does WotC ever learn from its mistakes? Don't blow up/shatter/spellplague your settings.
The interactions between Domains were a huge part of what made Ravenloft an actual setting.
I'm still getting the book, but the arrogance of this worries me for future setting books.
Seriously WotC say it after me "I will not nuke beloved settings".
What might they be willing to do to FR if they will do this to Ravenloft. 5e's success has made the designers arrogant.
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TKU
Learned Scribe
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 04:18:02
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| I never played Ravenloft, so I don't really have a grasp on the significance of what shattering the Core means, but if this is as serious a setting change as you say, (More serious than the Spellplague? Wow!) than Ravenloft fans certainly have my sympathies. |
Edited by - TKU on 25 Feb 2021 04:18:30 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 04:23:52
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| Is there a “Grand History of Ravenloft” out there somewhere so I don’t go in blind? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 05:00:54
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*sigh*
"For example, in the ’90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime ruled by a Darklord named Vlad Drakov, who had a Vlad the Impaler vibe. Well, we already have a Vlad-type figure in residence at Castle Ravenloft in Barovia,"
Okay, so I know that the original novel Dracula was inspired by Vlad the Impaler, and Strahd was inspired by Dracula -- but I'm sorry, Strahd doesn't give anything resembling the Vlad the Impaler vibe.
"so we saw this as the perfect opportunity to give the domain a stronger identity and embrace a different brand of horror."
Laudable goals, but easily accomplished without kicking the original material to the curb.
"In its new form, Falkovnia is ruled by a Darklord named Vladeska Drakov, a notorious military commander who’s struggling to defend its last surviving city against a domain-wide zombie apocalypse."
While this is an interesting addition to Ravenloft, I'm not sure it fits the Gothic horror vibe, and for the love of Lurue, why not just create a new realm?!? The setting was designed with the idea of just dropping in new lands, so why not do that instead of stomping on the parts you don't like? Or -- and I know this is a crazy idea -- find a way to evolve the old material into what you want.
Here, let me show you how simple it is: Someone manages to off Vlad Drakov, by swarming him with their zombie army. The new Dark Lord takes over, thinking everything is hunky-dory... But then Vlad Drakov rises as a kind of super-zombie, takes over the new guy's zombie army, and tries to take back his realm.
See what I did there, WotC? I took the original material, your bastardization of it, connected them, and maintained continuity. And it took me all of thirty seconds. So either I'm more creative than you guys, or you just don't care to put in any effort.
And I know exactly how creative I am -- not terribly. I have my moments, but my best stuff is often when I put my own spin on someone else's ideas... like I did here. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 05:42:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Is there a “Grand History of Ravenloft” out there somewhere so I don’t go in blind?
Sadly, no. The best options would be to see if you might pick up a copy of the Ravenloft boxed set for AD&D, the Realm of Terror boxed set, or the Domains of Dread hardcover.
Barring purchase on EBay or Amazon (or similar places), Dungeon Masters Guild sells PDF (and often, Print On Demand) versions, so that might be an option. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 12:05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh*
"For example, in the �90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime
Oh, look what happens when brain-dead commissars control the content. Who could see it coming?
No surprise whatsoever. After FR 4e, the rest was "overdue", if anything.
quote:
See what I did there, WotC? I took the original material, your bastardization of it, connected them, and maintained continuity.
Why on Earth do you think they would want to do this?
You seem to retain some illusions about this being a "for profit company" that "strives to sell", or something to this end. So take a look at what was emitted by Lucasfilm under Zombie Mouse.
I hope this doesn't need to be somehow made more obvious? Everyone got it now? 
What happened at Whizzards of the Cost is exactly the same, because they are exactly the same sort and do exactly the same thing.
The entire point of this exercise is to piss on you from a balcony, and the entire reason for it is that they are degenerate "aristocrats" whose idea of fun is pissing on the peasants' heads from a balcony. It's not some sort of a medical problem they totally would fix if they could.
Also, if you stay under the balcony and not using a bill-hook to drag them down for a little chat on an even ground, you are their peasant, as far as they (or their lowliest lackeys) are concerned.
Hence "Mike Mearls will fire you from D&D" thing. 
And once they got power in a company, legitimately or not, the balcony is all theirs. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 12:06:11
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Vlad Drakov was probably going to be a headache for the sanitized Ravenloft WotC's trying to push forward, given that he's a violent maniac with a massive misogynist streak and a practitioner of droit de seigneur, which is why he has a whole zoo of bastard children.
That's the entire point though; you don't become a Darklord without being a massive dickwad beforehand. Vladeska has to be a massive jerkwad to justify being a Darklord, the kind of person you'd leave to a zombie apocalypse and not feel an ounce of remorse about it. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 12:07:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh*
"For example, in the ’90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime ruled by a Darklord named Vlad Drakov, who had a Vlad the Impaler vibe. Well, we already have a Vlad-type figure in residence at Castle Ravenloft in Barovia,"
Okay, so I know that the original novel Dracula was inspired by Vlad the Impaler, and Strahd was inspired by Dracula -- but I'm sorry, Strahd doesn't give anything resembling the Vlad the Impaler vibe.
"so we saw this as the perfect opportunity to give the domain a stronger identity and embrace a different brand of horror."
Laudable goals, but easily accomplished without kicking the original material to the curb.
"In its new form, Falkovnia is ruled by a Darklord named Vladeska Drakov, a notorious military commander who’s struggling to defend its last surviving city against a domain-wide zombie apocalypse."
While this is an interesting addition to Ravenloft, I'm not sure it fits the Gothic horror vibe, and for the love of Lurue, why not just create a new realm?!? The setting was designed with the idea of just dropping in new lands, so why not do that instead of stomping on the parts you don't like? Or -- and I know this is a crazy idea -- find a way to evolve the old material into what you want.
Here, let me show you how simple it is: Someone manages to off Vlad Drakov, by swarming him with their zombie army. The new Dark Lord takes over, thinking everything is hunky-dory... But then Vlad Drakov rises as a kind of super-zombie, takes over the new guy's zombie army, and tries to take back his realm.
See what I did there, WotC? I took the original material, your bastardization of it, connected them, and maintained continuity. And it took me all of thirty seconds. So either I'm more creative than you guys, or you just don't care to put in any effort.
And I know exactly how creative I am -- not terribly. I have my moments, but my best stuff is often when I put my own spin on someone else's ideas... like I did here.
On another forum I always bring up how much I’d love to see Spelljammer updated to 5e and the visceral reaction I get it often shocking.
Now I understand why.
Yes, I’m no complainer, but it is getting a little exhausting to see how little respect for old lore WotC has. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 13:33:56
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Vladeska Drakov.... wow, that truly is some brain dead bullsh*t....
I had actually been considering buying this just to make sure the brand keeps going (I buy many of their products with no intent to use them but just to see what they're doing). If this is an example....
TBeholder, your statements.... I gotta say I kind of had felt something of that, but more and more its sounding quite believable.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 20:51:43
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
TBeholder, your statements.... I gotta say I kind of had felt something of that, but more and more its sounding quite believable.
I have to say, having heard more than a bunch of stuff that happens "behind the scenes" over the years, that this isn't IT. Sure, the WotC staff have healthy egos and they get pandered to - a lot - but I've always got the impression that for the majority of them it's simply a job. A kind of cool job (especially these days with the media surrounding gaming) but nonetheless, a job. As in turn up, do what you do, get paid and go home. They're not looking to offend anyone, and it's clear that their writing mandate in the last 12-18 months has been shaken up to reflect the "optics" of the modern world, but they simply want to hit word count on deadline and go home to their partner and have a drink/slice of cake.
Couple that with the business realities of D&D (to be clear, D&D is not a massive profitable behemoth), the fact that they they are a small staff of creative types who have to balance how much freelance content they use and introduce (both for budget reasons and for the "why are we paying you if we can get these people to do the job just as well and for less ...?" reason) and the fact that they are not getting paid gazillions of dollars to do it, and you get the current scenario. It's a job. As someone with a job, I get it totally.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 25 Feb 2021 20:52:08 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 21:00:39
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
TBeholder, your statements.... I gotta say I kind of had felt something of that, but more and more its sounding quite believable.
I have to say, having heard more than a bunch of stuff that happens "behind the scenes" over the years, that this isn't IT. Sure, the WotC have healthy egos and they get pandered to - a lot - but I've always got the impression that for the majority of them it's simply a job. A kind of cool job (especially these days with the media surrounding gaming) but nonetheless, a job. As in turn up, do what you do, get paid and go home. They're not looking to offend anyone, and it's clear that their writing mandate in the last 12-18 months has been shaken up to reflect the "optics" of the modern world, but they simply want to hit word count on deadline and go home to their partner and have a drink/slice of cake.
Couple that with the business realities of D&D (to be clear, D&D is not a massive profitable behemoth), the fact that they they are a small staff of creative types who have to balance how much freelance content they use and introduce (both for budget reasons and for the "why are we paying you if we can get these people to do the job just as well and for less ...?" reason) and the fact that they are not getting paid gazillions of dollars to do it, and you get the current scenario. It's a job. As someone with a job, I get it totally.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2021 : 22:48:39
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
TBeholder, your statements.... I gotta say I kind of had felt something of that, but more and more its sounding quite believable.
I have to say, having heard more than a bunch of stuff that happens "behind the scenes" over the years, that this isn't IT. Sure, the WotC have healthy egos and they get pandered to - a lot - but I've always got the impression that for the majority of them it's simply a job. A kind of cool job (especially these days with the media surrounding gaming) but nonetheless, a job. As in turn up, do what you do, get paid and go home. They're not looking to offend anyone, and it's clear that their writing mandate in the last 12-18 months has been shaken up to reflect the "optics" of the modern world, but they simply want to hit word count on deadline and go home to their partner and have a drink/slice of cake.
Couple that with the business realities of D&D (to be clear, D&D is not a massive profitable behemoth), the fact that they they are a small staff of creative types who have to balance how much freelance content they use and introduce (both for budget reasons and for the "why are we paying you if we can get these people to do the job just as well and for less ...?" reason) and the fact that they are not getting paid gazillions of dollars to do it, and you get the current scenario. It's a job. As someone with a job, I get it totally.
-- George Krashos
George is right. There is no intentional malice. I remember from several years ago, I was getting an apple fritter at the first floor coffee shop when I overheard a conversation. A half-orc, an elf, and two humans were sitting at a table and one of them said "I've got it! We'll have a spellplague!" and everyone at the table cheered. The elf said "Oh, the players are just gonna LOVE this!"
Yep. True story. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 01:34:41
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| -I like it. I've always liked the concept of Ravenloft more than it as a place, and this remodeling does exactly that. Re-imagining some of the domains, eh, I guess that'll be on a case-by-case basis; on the whole, I don't really see the need to randomly change things like Vlad Drakov for no real major reason, but hey. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 02:00:09
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Oh for Pete's sake.
For starters, the setting hasn't seen ANY significant love since 2e. There was one Adventure in 3.5 (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft), one board-game in 4e, and the last one Curse of Strahd . All of this simple put more emphasis on Strahd's domain while pretty much ignoring everything else.
Second, Strahd has always been D&D's Dracula, from the castle to his abilities and interested and reading of the Occult to the overall concept is of what the Vistani were supposed to be. I think even his desire to find and keep Tatyana forever is symbolic of Drac's luring and taking of Lucy Westnra.
So for them to take another Dread Lord and turn them into something more diverse than yet another Dracula-runoff, I'm all for it. To turn it into The Walking Dead/Dawn of the Living Dead is something pretty cool.
Lastly, there's nothing to suggest that the Domains can't be interconnected or able to be traversed by PCs, since I remember a specific Riverboat novel set in Ravenloft that went thru multiple ones. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 02:02:23
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
George is right. There is no intentional malice. I remember from several years ago, I was getting an apple fritter at the first floor coffee shop when I overheard a conversation. A half-orc, an elf, and two humans were sitting at a table and one of them said "I've got it! We'll have a spellplague!" and everyone at the table cheered. The elf said "Oh, the players are just gonna LOVE this!"
Yep. True story.
Yeah, I'm personally not assuming malice -- just a lack of respect for continuity, which I really don't understand. Like I said, what I came up with took me all of thirty seconds, if that long -- surely, someone paid to be creative could come up with something far better. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 02:06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-I like it. I've always liked the concept of Ravenloft more than it as a place, and this remodeling does exactly that. Re-imagining some of the domains, eh, I guess that'll be on a case-by-case basis; on the whole, I don't really see the need to randomly change things like Vlad Drakov for no real major reason, but hey.
Yeah, I've got nothing to say about them breaking up the Core. I'd love there to be an explanation, but the domains were always kinda impermanent neighbors, as it was, with the way any of them could be entirely isolated from the rest.
I can't say I like the move, but it doesn't bother me enough to complain about it. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 02:13:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Second, Strahd has always been D&D's Dracula, from the castle to his abilities and interested and reading of the Occult to the overall concept is of what the Vistani were supposed to be. I think even his desire to find and keep Tatyana forever is symbolic of Drac's luring and taking of Lucy Westnra.
So for them to take another Dread Lord and turn them into something more diverse than yet another Dracula-runoff, I'm all for it. To turn it into The Walking Dead/Dawn of the Living Dead is something pretty cool.
Yes, Strahd has always been D&D's version of the novel Dracula.
Drakov was not a knock-off of the novel Dracula, though -- he was more a knock-off of the original Dracula.
Other than the fact that you'd not want either as neighbors, though, novel Dracula and original Dracula had little in common, aside from being nobility in the same general vicinity of the world. What made one notorious was entirely different from what made the other notorious.
There is no need to try to make Drakov and Strahd different -- they're already very different, enough so that if you didn't know anything about the original Dracula you'd not see any reason at all to connect the two. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 02:58:10
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| I think this book sounds pretty alright. My biggest fear is that the Vistani continue to be a racist caricature like they've always been, but I think I heard they hired a Romani sensitivity consultant. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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louis_bowwow
Acolyte
14 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 03:51:37
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So this isn’t the first time that the Core was ripped apart. The first iteration of the Core from the original boxed set was a patchwork of domains stitched together with no rhyme or reason. There was no continuity between neighboring domains and they seemed to just be thrown together.
Then Azalin attempted to breakout of Ravenloft with the Grand Conjunction. This event literally tore the Core apart. Ultimately it failed and most of the domains were dragged back together with the 2nd boxed set showing the reorganized Core. It looked a lot better and there was actual continuity between the adjacent domains. They also used this event to add to the setting. New domains were added and old ones were changed. Granted they shook everything up again with the whole Grim Harvest thing and changed some more stuff in the Domains of Dread book.
Who knows, maybe they will give an actual reason or event for the domains to be torn apart. Maybe they just drifted apart. I’m personally looking forward to see how it has been updated. My only wish would be that they bring back the original artists that drew the artwork from way back in the day. It was a very distinct style, but I always liked it. |
Edited by - louis_bowwow on 26 Feb 2021 03:57:52 |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 05:15:26
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My sneaky hope is that Kalidnay sneaks in somehow. It’ll never happen, but I’m /dying/ to get Dark Sun back, and it would be a cute appetizer.
I’m very curious how much detail each domain will get; 30 of them plus the new races, subclasses, monsters, and other mechanics, and those 250ish pages really start to fill up quick. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 17:37:02
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quote:
Originally posted by louis_bowwow
So this isn’t the first time that the Core was ripped apart. The first iteration of the Core from the original boxed set was a patchwork of domains stitched together with no rhyme or reason. There was no continuity between neighboring domains and they seemed to just be thrown together.
Then Azalin attempted to breakout of Ravenloft with the Grand Conjunction. This event literally tore the Core apart. Ultimately it failed and most of the domains were dragged back together with the 2nd boxed set showing the reorganized Core. It looked a lot better and there was actual continuity between the adjacent domains. They also used this event to add to the setting. New domains were added and old ones were changed. Granted they shook everything up again with the whole Grim Harvest thing and changed some more stuff in the Domains of Dread book.
Who knows, maybe they will give an actual reason or event for the domains to be torn apart. Maybe they just drifted apart. I’m personally looking forward to see how it has been updated. My only wish would be that they bring back the original artists that drew the artwork from way back in the day. It was a very distinct style, but I always liked it.
I hope so. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 18:46:01
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh*
"For example, in the �90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime
Oh, look what happens when brain-dead commissars control the content. Who could see it coming?
No surprise whatsoever. After FR 4e, the rest was "overdue", if anything.
quote:
See what I did there, WotC? I took the original material, your bastardization of it, connected them, and maintained continuity.
Why on Earth do you think they would want to do this?
You seem to retain some illusions about this being a "for profit company" that "strives to sell", or something to this end. So take a look at what was emitted by Lucasfilm under Zombie Mouse.
I hope this doesn't need to be somehow made more obvious? Everyone got it now?
What happened at Whizzards of the Cost is exactly the same, because they are exactly the same sort and do exactly the same thing.
The entire point of this exercise is to piss on you from a balcony, and the entire reason for it is that they are degenerate "aristocrats" whose idea of fun is pissing on the peasants' heads from a balcony. It's not some sort of a medical problem they totally would fix if they could.
Also, if you stay under the balcony and not using a bill-hook to drag them down for a little chat on an even ground, you are their peasant, as far as they (or their lowliest lackeys) are concerned.
Hence "Mike Mearls will fire you from D&D" thing.
And once they got power in a company, legitimately or not, the balcony is all theirs.
I don't think its malicious on the part of the D&D team,they aren't Kathleen Kennedy, its that the intial humility they started with when creating 5e has given way to arrogance and a sense of entitlement.
But none of this is conscious, its just that 5e has been so successful, that arrogance has set in.
Don't get me wrong, the book could still be great and the unique nature of Ravenloft makes the shattered core issue easily fixable.
But this is why its becoming increasingly clear that its major lore changes that they should be doing public playtests for even more then for mechanics.
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Edited by - Gyor on 26 Feb 2021 19:13:15 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 19:44:57
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quote:
I don't think its malicious on the part of the D&D team,they aren't Kathleen Kennedy, its that the intial humility they started with when creating 5e has given way to arrogance and a sense of entitlement.
They have a captive audience.
There are enough people who still keep buying anything WotC still keeps selling. The collectors, completionists, canon conformists, brand loyalists, avid lore lovers, all sorts. Without regard for how poor the "official" product quality might be. Even though non-WotC offerings (and competitors) have consistently become more compelling.
The arrogance sets in when you can basically do whatever you want with total impunity. Knowing that your customers/audience/readers/victims will keep on coming back to put more money in your pockets.
Although, of course, having wrong people installed in certain corporate positions does intensify and accelerate the process. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 19:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
But this is why its becoming increasingly clear that its major lore changes that they should be doing public playtests for even more then for mechanics.
They'll never solicit opinion on lore changes...
Part of the problem is that they have people that get too enamored of their own ideas, which is a common enough failing for any creative type.
Part of the problem is that if a proposed change wasn't well-accepted, then they'd have to decide whether to push forward and piss people off -- but keep with their existing plans -- or take longer and spend more effort (and money) on trying to deliver acceptable changes.
And part of the issue is that different audiences are going to have different opinions. I, for one, believe that part of the point of the 4E lore changes was to appeal to a vocal group of players that did not like the Realms... You ask a bunch of dedicated Greyhawk fans about the Realms, then ask the same question to a bunch of Realms fans, you'll get some wildly different opinions. Even if the audience was limited only to dedicated fans of the setting in question, there are still going to be differing opinions (ask folks here about the ToT!), and it could be that none of those opinions is what is really needed.
Fandoms -- any fandoms -- can be a chaotic mess. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Feb 2021 20:01:01 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2021 : 20:04:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh*
"For example, in the �90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime
Oh, look what happens when brain-dead commissars control the content. Who could see it coming?
No surprise whatsoever. After FR 4e, the rest was "overdue", if anything.
quote:
See what I did there, WotC? I took the original material, your bastardization of it, connected them, and maintained continuity.
Why on Earth do you think they would want to do this?
You seem to retain some illusions about this being a "for profit company" that "strives to sell", or something to this end. So take a look at what was emitted by Lucasfilm under Zombie Mouse.
I hope this doesn't need to be somehow made more obvious? Everyone got it now?
What happened at Whizzards of the Cost is exactly the same, because they are exactly the same sort and do exactly the same thing.
The entire point of this exercise is to piss on you from a balcony, and the entire reason for it is that they are degenerate "aristocrats" whose idea of fun is pissing on the peasants' heads from a balcony. It's not some sort of a medical problem they totally would fix if they could.
Also, if you stay under the balcony and not using a bill-hook to drag them down for a little chat on an even ground, you are their peasant, as far as they (or their lowliest lackeys) are concerned.
Hence "Mike Mearls will fire you from D&D" thing.
And once they got power in a company, legitimately or not, the balcony is all theirs.
I don't think its malicious on the part of the D&D team,they aren't Kathleen Kennedy, its that the intial humility they started with when creating 5e has given way to arrogance and a sense of entitlement.
But none of this is conscious, its just that 5e has been so successful, that arrogance has set in.
Don't get me wrong, the book could still be great and the unique nature of Ravenloft makes the shattered core issue easily fixable.
But this is why its becoming increasingly clear that its major lore changes that they should be doing public playtests for even more then for mechanics.
This is what I meant when I said I was wondering above. That they may be getting arrogant and listening less and prepping to flood the market with trash ideas..... because its too hard to research. I sincerely hope that I'm proven wrong. I can say that I'm of a mixed mind with some things I've seen in some of the latest modules. I see things that are wonderful, right beside things that make me want to cringe. For instance, the ideas behind the enclave in Rime of the Frostmaiden, were pretty well done, but some of the things they did in it (a scroll to summon a tarrasque) made me cringe.
That all being said, breaking up the core... doesn't bother me. Converting a bunch of domains to 5e... ok. I'm probably on the fence with this purchase, and if a lot of it is "we introduce a zombie plague zone... oh, and since we can't have a "Vlad Drakov" we changed the name to make it a chick and added a couple letters"... Yeah, I'm not interested in paying for that tripe. If I hear from folks that they have some pretty well thought out domains with good stories to read... okay, I may buy it just to read them. I honestly don't think I'll have much actual use for the product (that being said, I barely used the original ravenloft.. so...), but one can hope.
I'd actually be intrigued to find out that portions of the realms that "went away" in the second sundering form their own domains... such that maybe they DIDN'T go back to Abeir... or maybe they got copied in the transfer or somesuch. Or maybe a new domain in ravenloft based on the concept of the warlock knights of Vaasa AND Zhengyi AND Telos AND Tenebrous/Orcus or somesuch, complete with a copy of the bloodstone lands or somesuch (maybe with Narfell's demonbinders arising or somesuch). Throw in some dark elves and hags who serve Kiaransalee as willing to aid the "heroes" against this evil or something, as that twist of "uh oh, what did we do". Making the place so darkly evil in a way that I'd never want to see it done on Toril could be a lot of fun. Or maybe Lantan is returning, but a copy of it got attached to Mordenheim where the "frankenstein" spin off is or somesuch and Lantan's a new island nearby with mad scientists.
In short, original story ideas that sound like a fun read.... count me in. Boring stuff I see on TV already just rehashed into something for people to buy? Yeah, not so much. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 26 Feb 2021 20:23:07 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2021 : 09:02:29
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh*
"For example, in the �90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime
Oh, look what happens when brain-dead commissars control the content. Who could see it coming?
No surprise whatsoever. After FR 4e, the rest was "overdue", if anything.
quote:
See what I did there, WotC? I took the original material, your bastardization of it, connected them, and maintained continuity.
Why on Earth do you think they would want to do this?
You seem to retain some illusions about this being a "for profit company" that "strives to sell", or something to this end. So take a look at what was emitted by Lucasfilm under Zombie Mouse.
I hope this doesn't need to be somehow made more obvious? Everyone got it now?
What happened at Whizzards of the Cost is exactly the same, because they are exactly the same sort and do exactly the same thing.
The entire point of this exercise is to piss on you from a balcony, and the entire reason for it is that they are degenerate "aristocrats" whose idea of fun is pissing on the peasants' heads from a balcony. It's not some sort of a medical problem they totally would fix if they could.
Also, if you stay under the balcony and not using a bill-hook to drag them down for a little chat on an even ground, you are their peasant, as far as they (or their lowliest lackeys) are concerned.
Hence "Mike Mearls will fire you from D&D" thing.
And once they got power in a company, legitimately or not, the balcony is all theirs.
I don't think its malicious on the part of the D&D team,they aren't Kathleen Kennedy, its that the intial humility they started with when creating 5e has given way to arrogance and a sense of entitlement.
But none of this is conscious, its just that 5e has been so successful, that arrogance has set in.
Don't get me wrong, the book could still be great and the unique nature of Ravenloft makes the shattered core issue easily fixable.
But this is why its becoming increasingly clear that its major lore changes that they should be doing public playtests for even more then for mechanics.
This is what I meant when I said I was wondering above. That they may be getting arrogant and listening less and prepping to flood the market with trash ideas..... because its too hard to research. I sincerely hope that I'm proven wrong. I can say that I'm of a mixed mind with some things I've seen in some of the latest modules. I see things that are wonderful, right beside things that make me want to cringe. For instance, the ideas behind the enclave in Rime of the Frostmaiden, were pretty well done, but some of the things they did in it (a scroll to summon a tarrasque) made me cringe.
That all being said, breaking up the core... doesn't bother me. Converting a bunch of domains to 5e... ok. I'm probably on the fence with this purchase, and if a lot of it is "we introduce a zombie plague zone... oh, and since we can't have a "Vlad Drakov" we changed the name to make it a chick and added a couple letters"... Yeah, I'm not interested in paying for that tripe. If I hear from folks that they have some pretty well thought out domains with good stories to read... okay, I may buy it just to read them. I honestly don't think I'll have much actual use for the product (that being said, I barely used the original ravenloft.. so...), but one can hope.
I'd actually be intrigued to find out that portions of the realms that "went away" in the second sundering form their own domains... such that maybe they DIDN'T go back to Abeir... or maybe they got copied in the transfer or somesuch. Or maybe a new domain in ravenloft based on the concept of the warlock knights of Vaasa AND Zhengyi AND Telos AND Tenebrous/Orcus or somesuch, complete with a copy of the bloodstone lands or somesuch (maybe with Narfell's demonbinders arising or somesuch). Throw in some dark elves and hags who serve Kiaransalee as willing to aid the "heroes" against this evil or something, as that twist of "uh oh, what did we do". Making the place so darkly evil in a way that I'd never want to see it done on Toril could be a lot of fun. Or maybe Lantan is returning, but a copy of it got attached to Mordenheim where the "frankenstein" spin off is or somesuch and Lantan's a new island nearby with mad scientists.
In short, original story ideas that sound like a fun read.... count me in. Boring stuff I see on TV already just rehashed into something for people to buy? Yeah, not so much.
Ravenloft already had a surprising amount of FR based Domains such as Kartakass, Hazlan, Nova Vassa, Valachan, I'Cath, Aggarath that were either pulled from FR or created for a being that becomes a Dark Lord from FR.
Valachan has a new Dark Lord in the up coming book, we will see if there connection to FR is retained.
The most interesting connection is Hazlan IMHO, as basically a mini Thay, but with it's Mulan Dark Lord plotting genocide against his own race (planning on stealing his assistants Rashemi body to save himself) to avenge himself upon Thay. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1477 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2021 : 11:36:08
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| To be fair, very few of the Realmsian Darklords have much to actually do with the realms. Only Hazlan has active plans for the Realms; the others just have 'being from Faerun' as a backstory, like how Vlad is from Krynn. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2021 : 14:43:50
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
To be fair, very few of the Realmsian Darklords have much to actually do with the realms. Only Hazlan has active plans for the Realms; the others just have 'being from Faerun' as a backstory, like how Vlad is from Krynn.
That is why Hazlan is one of my favourite Domains.The other favourite is the one with the Mummy Lord. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2021 : 14:45:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
*sigh*
"For example, in the �90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime
Oh, look what happens when brain-dead commissars control the content. Who could see it coming?
No surprise whatsoever. After FR 4e, the rest was "overdue", if anything.
quote:
See what I did there, WotC? I took the original material, your bastardization of it, connected them, and maintained continuity.
Why on Earth do you think they would want to do this?
You seem to retain some illusions about this being a "for profit company" that "strives to sell", or something to this end. So take a look at what was emitted by Lucasfilm under Zombie Mouse.
I hope this doesn't need to be somehow made more obvious? Everyone got it now?
What happened at Whizzards of the Cost is exactly the same, because they are exactly the same sort and do exactly the same thing.
The entire point of this exercise is to piss on you from a balcony, and the entire reason for it is that they are degenerate "aristocrats" whose idea of fun is pissing on the peasants' heads from a balcony. It's not some sort of a medical problem they totally would fix if they could.
Also, if you stay under the balcony and not using a bill-hook to drag them down for a little chat on an even ground, you are their peasant, as far as they (or their lowliest lackeys) are concerned.
Hence "Mike Mearls will fire you from D&D" thing.
And once they got power in a company, legitimately or not, the balcony is all theirs.
I don't think its malicious on the part of the D&D team,they aren't Kathleen Kennedy, its that the intial humility they started with when creating 5e has given way to arrogance and a sense of entitlement.
But none of this is conscious, its just that 5e has been so successful, that arrogance has set in.
Don't get me wrong, the book could still be great and the unique nature of Ravenloft makes the shattered core issue easily fixable.
But this is why its becoming increasingly clear that its major lore changes that they should be doing public playtests for even more then for mechanics.
This is what I meant when I said I was wondering above. That they may be getting arrogant and listening less and prepping to flood the market with trash ideas..... because its too hard to research. I sincerely hope that I'm proven wrong. I can say that I'm of a mixed mind with some things I've seen in some of the latest modules. I see things that are wonderful, right beside things that make me want to cringe. For instance, the ideas behind the enclave in Rime of the Frostmaiden, were pretty well done, but some of the things they did in it (a scroll to summon a tarrasque) made me cringe.
That all being said, breaking up the core... doesn't bother me. Converting a bunch of domains to 5e... ok. I'm probably on the fence with this purchase, and if a lot of it is "we introduce a zombie plague zone... oh, and since we can't have a "Vlad Drakov" we changed the name to make it a chick and added a couple letters"... Yeah, I'm not interested in paying for that tripe. If I hear from folks that they have some pretty well thought out domains with good stories to read... okay, I may buy it just to read them. I honestly don't think I'll have much actual use for the product (that being said, I barely used the original ravenloft.. so...), but one can hope.
I'd actually be intrigued to find out that portions of the realms that "went away" in the second sundering form their own domains... such that maybe they DIDN'T go back to Abeir... or maybe they got copied in the transfer or somesuch. Or maybe a new domain in ravenloft based on the concept of the warlock knights of Vaasa AND Zhengyi AND Telos AND Tenebrous/Orcus or somesuch, complete with a copy of the bloodstone lands or somesuch (maybe with Narfell's demonbinders arising or somesuch). Throw in some dark elves and hags who serve Kiaransalee as willing to aid the "heroes" against this evil or something, as that twist of "uh oh, what did we do". Making the place so darkly evil in a way that I'd never want to see it done on Toril could be a lot of fun. Or maybe Lantan is returning, but a copy of it got attached to Mordenheim where the "frankenstein" spin off is or somesuch and Lantan's a new island nearby with mad scientists.
In short, original story ideas that sound like a fun read.... count me in. Boring stuff I see on TV already just rehashed into something for people to buy? Yeah, not so much.
Ravenloft already had a surprising amount of FR based Domains such as Kartakass, Hazlan, Nova Vassa, Valachan, I'Cath, Aggarath that were either pulled from FR or created for a being that becomes a Dark Lord from FR.
Valachan has a new Dark Lord in the up coming book, we will see if there connection to FR is retained.
The most interesting connection is Hazlan IMHO, as basically a mini Thay, but with it's Mulan Dark Lord plotting genocide against his own race (planning on stealing his assistants Rashemi body to save himself) to avenge himself upon Thay.
Did these realms even remotely resemble the realms they were taken from? I remember Hazlan's, but that was pretty much it.
Hmm, one thing that comes to mind now that I think on this idea though. The whole plot of the undead trilogy in Thay hinged upon this idea that there was some kingdom "in the sunrise mountains ruled by Fastrin the Delver".... I know I've posited other theories that Leira tricked Tam into draining the energy of the Athora to bring back Mystra.... but WHAT IF there was a little something to this lore. What if the place Fastrin the Delver came from, that NOONE ever heard of prior to this, went to Ravenloft? What if the ritual Tam was going to do would have, if successful, have called to the mists of ravenloft and turned him into a dark lord? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 27 Feb 2021 14:55:32 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2021 : 05:53:18
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Your love for multi-world/plane spanning linkages always shines through sleyvas.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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WotC shattered Ravenloft's Core
Topic Locked
