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 Amphail related materials in Dragon or Dungeon Mag
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5308 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2018 :  02:22:05  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed tried to sneak it in by way of a game (ala the type that they used to include in Dragon Magazine) which involved moving merchant caravans and shipping from location to location up and down the Sword Coast and making coin. TSR weren't interested and it no doubt is tucked away somewhere in one of his innumerable boxes. As to why TSR/WotC weren't interested, I can only think that they thought that there were more important things to showcase in the Realms and similarly, most play groups didn't base their campaign around merchant activity and becoming rich by means of trade rather than collecting dragon hoards - unlike Ed's players.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31599 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2018 :  02:27:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Krashos,

That is really unfortunate. Do you know why TSR/WotC were so profoundly ridiculous about that? I am an economist and marketer by trade and I really wish they had done that kind of work. It would have been so immersive.




For the same reason we don't see magical cures for warts, or people having to stop to relieve themselves, or anything but one panel of Elminster's discussion on Mulhorandi pottery: compared to dragons, fireballs, or horrors from beyond the grave, none of that other stuff is cool or flashy. As I've commented before, it's simply not sexy enough to see print in gaming material.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Oct 2018 02:28:01
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2018 :  14:34:45  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Rupert,

Well, from a players perspective, I can appreciate that to a point. From a DM's perspective, this could give impossibly huge storyline reasons, of a sensible nature, to draw characters into story arcs.

I feel convinced if you inquired with my players currently, from my "A Troubled Economy" campaign based in the Shining South, you'd find solid reviews about how the economy has pushed a more immersive, impactful feeling about the world.

My main point though was just to see, which I now know isn't available with Master Krashos' reply, if there had been and if there is anywhere, "official" economic material to show how that impacts the world for drawing up campaigns.

Best regards!




quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2

Master Krashos,

That is really unfortunate. Do you know why TSR/WotC were so profoundly ridiculous about that? I am an economist and marketer by trade and I really wish they had done that kind of work. It would have been so immersive.




For the same reason we don't see magical cures for warts, or people having to stop to relieve themselves, or anything but one panel of Elminster's discussion on Mulhorandi pottery: compared to dragons, fireballs, or horrors from beyond the grave, none of that other stuff is cool or flashy. As I've commented before, it's simply not sexy enough to see print in gaming material.


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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cpthero2
Senior Scribe

USA
472 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2018 :  14:43:32  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Krashos,

I can certainly appreciate that point. I was angling it towards having an immersive, believable background that has impacts on characters.

Imagine for example, that if a dynamic economic background existed, and that causes hyperinflation in a nation where the characters are at, and they can't even afford to get even the most basic of items due to insane pricing? What a way to make a subtle, but fascinating impact on the sense of feeling for a character (and of course player) to realize, "No matter how powerful I am, I can't even afford a longsword, rations, etc." Imagine the increased amount of rioting, theft, murder, rape, kidnappings, and the expansion of evil gods and power groups taking advantage of such chaos to thwart....maybe even the characters themselves if they are active and successful locally.

Imagine.....if the economic downturn is used by evil gods to turn the populace against high leveled characters?

Sure, they can fireball, disintegrate, and more. What does one do if a populace turns against your character? The mobs are coming for you. Do you murder all of them? Do you solve the problem, getting to the root of the economic upheaval, or something else?

I think there are a lot of things that economics in the Realms could be amazing for, but as Master Rupert said above, not exciting for the players in reading it, but rather, interacting with it (as I feel, and am doing now in my campaign).

Best regards!




quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Ed tried to sneak it in by way of a game (ala the type that they used to include in Dragon Magazine) which involved moving merchant caravans and shipping from location to location up and down the Sword Coast and making coin. TSR weren't interested and it no doubt is tucked away somewhere in one of his innumerable boxes. As to why TSR/WotC weren't interested, I can only think that they thought that there were more important things to showcase in the Realms and similarly, most play groups didn't base their campaign around merchant activity and becoming rich by means of trade rather than collecting dragon hoards - unlike Ed's players.

-- George Krashos


Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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perlmugp
Seeker

USA
43 Posts

Posted - 31 Oct 2018 :  15:08:14  Show Profile  Visit perlmugp's Homepage Send perlmugp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George, I think there is a problem with the dates you have for the list of Warlords of Waterdeep. The Grand History of the Realms says that 940DR started the Second Trollwars and that beginning with Amphail who reigned a year there were a total of six Warlords over the twelve years of this war. This would imply 940-941 DR for Amphail and a few adjustments to the other dates as well.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by wildeman

George,
Is Raulbaera's brother's name mentioned somewhere and I've missed it, or do you just have a name for him that was never published? Would you mind sharing that? (Obviously I could just make one up for myself, but I really like feeling like I have the "source material" when it comes to noteable specifics... and she will be a central entity in my story.)

So if I'm understanding you correctly, Amphail the village came first in VGttN and you created the person Amphail "the Just" Caradoon using the name from the village? Or you created the person and someone else applied the name to the village as well as the legend of his ghost protecting it? (Sorry to be slow on the uptake.) It just seems like - if the story of his ghost is to be believed - then he must have had a pretty strong attachment to the location... but there's nothing that specifically details this.

By any chance, you didn't happen to be involved in the Old Dead Rowan Tree and the lady buried beneath it or know who did create it?

Thanks



All of the Amphail information was noted in the entry in the Volo's Guide, all Eric Boyd and I did was make him a Caradoon and give him a place in the history of the North. That's all the further info we provided on Amphail, the rest is up to you!

For what it's worth, I have the Warlords of Waterdeep and the period they ruled as follows:

Nimoar 882-936
Gharl 936-943
Amphail "the Just" 943-944
Mulgomir 944-946
Torbalon 946-949
Emratann "the Youngblade" 949-951
Keltarn 951-952
Seldath "the Thoughtful" 952-974
Lauroun 974-1026
Raurlor 1026-1032

-- George Krashos


--Zoomable Map of Faerun--
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5308 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2018 :  00:29:18  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by perlmugp

George, I think there is a problem with the dates you have for the list of Warlords of Waterdeep. The Grand History of the Realms says that 940DR started the Second Trollwars and that beginning with Amphail who reigned a year there were a total of six Warlords over the twelve years of this war. This would imply 940-941 DR for Amphail and a few adjustments to the other dates as well.



I was reading the original sources which said that 6 warlords fell in the Second Trollwar, and so I had Gharl as the first. I agree that GHotR changes that, so I have truncated Torbalon's reign and added a new Warlord - Julthoon - who reigned in 948/949. He is now the sixth Warlord and the rest are re-numbered. Thanks for picking that up!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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AJA
Seeker

USA
60 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2018 :  00:43:36  Show Profile Send AJA a Private Message  Reply with Quote


Mulgomir's Way, Keltarn Street, (Julthoon Street).

George, is "Seldath" supposed to be "Selduth" (Street)?


AJA
YAFRP
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5308 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2018 :  10:03:38  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No. The name has changed in pronunciation over the centuries. Julthoon and the rest havenít.

Itís nice to see that someone has picked up on these.

ó George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 18 Nov 2018 10:06:21
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