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 What kinds of Elves are on Selune?
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6218 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2017 :  00:49:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
What kind of elves are on Selune. I know the obvious pun of "moon elves" (and that would work), but I'm noting that the elves are different. They're generally taller, paler, and have paler eyes than the surface elves. Also, they don't trust the surface Torilians and fear an invasion. My first thought was the shadow elves of Mystara, but they're even shorter. Then I thought about the rockseer elves from night below, but culturally they don't seem to fit (they don't fit the flashy Leiran people of the moon, who only want to fine food, entertainment, and luxuries). Then I thought about the Arak (aka "Shadow Elves" from the 2nd edition Ravenloft Shadow Rift).

I'm kind of thinking the Arak/"Shadow Elves" specifically the Arak, Shee could be a good fit for these "elves on Selune". We have the dark side of the moon. We have this illusion covering the light side of the moon that reduces the sun's effects to the point that you can't even tan. We have that these Arak are harmed by sunlight. Unlike other "elves", they're effectively immortal (living thousands of years), but they aren't epically powerful. Oddly, They can shapechange into birds like songbirds and swans, which might help their spying on people that land on the moon.

What do you think? Part of me likes it and part of me doesn't, because I'd also possibly like a link between the elves of the moon and the elves of Nimbral. Of course, this wouldn't necessarily stop that if the "elves" of Nimbral came from Selune and found some way to exist in the light. I'm kind of picturing something where the "Shee" came to Selune, and maybe some curse or high magic ritual forced them to always produce "Shee" as children.... or to put a darker spin maybe they kill their children that start turning into other types of Arak.... or maybe the Shee are the only Arak that meet with outsiders and the other Arak are under the moon's surface.

Another part of this that kind of fits with the people of Selune piece is that the people there don't like to work, and so the Arak idea of changelings (wherein you capture someone's shadow, and said shadow will work relentlessly as a master artisan slave version of said person)


From Realmspace entry for Selune page 26:
The people for the most part are pale skinned, living their lives in a world's atmosphere that softens the rays of the sun to such a point that tanning is impossible. The humans, who are about an average of six inches shorter than their Toril counterparts, live in harmony with the elves who are about six inches taller than their relatives planetside.

The humans all have blonde or light brown hair. Their eyes are light colored as well; bright blues and greens are the normal, with the purple or lavender shades being fairly unusual. None of the inhabitants have brown, black, or any other darker eye color. Even the elves exhibit lighter shades of skin, eyes, and hair.

From Shadow Rift, page 148

The Shee dominate the Maeve's Seelie Court, and Maeve herself is Princess of the Shee as well as Faerie Queen. They are the most artistic of all the shadow elves, loving music, poetry, and performances of all kind.

The Shee stand slightly taller than the average human, although their slender and graceful builds make them weigh far less. They are the fairest of all the fey (PERSONAL NOTE: in this context, fey means ARAK) with pale hair, amber eyes, and very light, almost milk-white, skin. They wear silky, flowing clothes of medieval or renaissance design, always carefully chosen for best effect.

From Races of Faerun, Moon Elves
The most common of the elven subraces on Faerūn are the moon elves. They have fair skin, sometimes tinged with blue, and hair of silver-white, black, or blue; humanlike colors are somewhat rare. Their eyes are blue or green, with gold flecks.

From Races of Faerun, Star Elves
Of all the elven subraces, star elves most closely resemble moon elves. They have pale skin that sometimes takes on a pearly gray or faintly violet tinge, and hair of gold, red, or silver-white. Their eyes are gray or violet, sometimes with gold flecks. Like the sun elves or moon elves, star elves are tall and slender; men average between 5 1/2 and 6 feet in height and weigh around 140 pounds, while women are about half a foot shorter and weigh around 110 pounds.




The below is from the Entry for Rockseer elves from the Night Below in 2nd edition:

Rockseer elves are the rarest of all elvenkind. They are far taller than most of their kin, with a few reaching almost to eight feet in
height. An average weight for a Rockseer is between 120 and 140 pounds, with little gender difference. Rockseers are very paleskinned,
and they have no body hair. Head hair is extraordinarily fine, always worn long, with the appearance and texture of exquisitely fine silk. The hair is silver, and eye color is invariant: a pale, almost ice-blue. They are androgenous in appearance, making it difficult for outsiders to tell males and females apart

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14553 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2017 :  02:13:18  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tall, and with the blue-tinge of the moon Elves...

I'm actually picturing something like the Na'vi of the movie avatar. Alien, yet elven.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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AuldDragon
Learned Scribe

USA
251 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2017 :  02:54:11  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anadia has a unique halfling race, so I don't see why the Selunian elves shouldn't be unique as well. They're probably an offshoot of early wildspace elven immigrants rather than having come from Toril.

For the sake of game rules, though, they're just cosmetically different high elves.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
Let's Play Old Games: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6218 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2017 :  03:49:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm gonna keep thinking on the idea of the Shee, but the other races of Arak kind of complicate it (UNLESS I do go with the idea that they're nefarious and only showing other people the Shee... which I kind of like).

However, if I did go with them being another form of elf, what might be some good schticks to go with them

Oh, and Markustay, yeah, I did kind of have the same idea as Avatar. However, it does call them elves, so I think they need to look elvish enough that someone not in the know would be able to mix them up.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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bloodtide_the_red
Seeker

USA
49 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2017 :  00:39:15  Show Profile  Visit bloodtide_the_red's Homepage Send bloodtide_the_red a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'd say Star Elves, of course.

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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1810 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2017 :  05:48:56  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When I saw "shadow elves" I thought of Mystara's shadow elves. I don't game in the Known World anymore, but I liked the alien quality of the shadow elves there. Thanks for the idea!

If I wasn't quite as keen on the shadow elves, or if mixing worlds was a problem for some reason, I might lean toward the original AD&D faerie elves. Selune seems compatible with the Fey realms, for me, so I wouldn't mind declaring that when the Fey seemed to vanish from Toril 30k years ago... it was an Evermeet sort of thing where many of them withdrew to Selune... still close enough to minimize the depradations of humanoid races into their old holdings (using fey crossroads, perhaps) but far enough away to be basically free of harassment.

Just stream-of-thought, of course. I'm interested in hearing any other brainstorming on the subject.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6218 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2017 :  20:04:17  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I relooked and it was the moon elves with the slight "blue" tint to their skin, not the elves on the moon. So, just pale skin, eyes, and hair. There's a couple things that begin to match up. The elves on the moon are interested in only themselves and being entertained. The Shee are TOTALLY all about entertainment when you read about them. They're the social butterflies of the Arak race.

I can see them periodically taking the shadow of some visitor (or entire crew) and turning them into changelings after someone takes a bit of faerie food from them. In fact, this may be the whole reason that they encourage spelljammers to dock, so that periodically they can take a crew that won't be missed and turn them into changelings. Then, depending on the type of person, they may turn it into a changeling and keep the "glaze-eyed" humans that are left behind to work the docks while the changeling is consumed with serving the Arak. It would fit that the other Arak stay in caverns below the earth's surface (and its noted that the inhabitants of the moon constantly ignore dwarven requests to allow mining) or stay away from the port, because most of the other Arak are either kind of insane and/or creepy looking. In fact, this "grand lie" that they're putting on about being a receptive port of call absolutely could fit with them being followers of Leira.

One thing I would note is that the "Shadow Rift" source material has them being called Arak because they "rename their race for their king who sacrifices himself in order that they can all escape" from some powerful entity of Shadow which calls itself Gwydion.... and that this was only in the last roughly ~300 years of current game date. Prior to that they had been entrapped in the "demiplane of shadow" as a race for thousands of years. They were also called Ellefolk while under the iron hand of Gwydion (a being of great evil and powerful magic who "cast his net into the seas of the multiverse, and drew in the ellefolk, an elf-like race from an ancient world unknown to men or dwarves").

So, based on that bit of lore, I'd probably have it that THESE "Arak" managed to escape Gwydion millennia ago somehow (maybe with the help of Leira?), and they maybe still call themselves "Ellefolk", but treat them in all other ways as the Arak. Oh, and based on the above, I'd probably call "Gwydion" some kind of dark and evil archfey, and have the land they were in be the Darklands/Feydark of the Feywild. Or Heroes of the Feywild has two different "Courts" that might work...

"Gloaming Fey" are associated with dreams, darkness, stars, twilight, and dusk. They owe allegiance to a variety of Archfey, the most famous of which is the Maiden of the Moon, a formidable hunter and bane of all lyncanthropes

"Unseelie Fey" - Though they have no true representation among the Court of Stars, there are fey creatures of evil, maliciousness, and corruption that are collectively known as the Unseelie Fey. Many of these creatures draw power or are shaped by the power of shadow, drawn from the Feywild's opposite counterpart, the Shadowfell.

Hmmmm, playing on this idea as well, Cegilune the hag goddess has ties to the moon. It could also be interesting if maybe these Ellefolk periodically trade the souls of those they steal the shadows of and turn into changelings. Assuming that when an "elf-shot" mortal grows old and dies, that its changeling dies too.... maybe whenever they see that a mortal host is going to die, they trade its soul to hags. They may even consider this a kindness "since its soul will go to the wall of the faithless anyway", just as they consider turning someone into a changeling a kindness "since it helps them achieve so much more of what they want".

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 13 Mar 2017 20:37:04
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2017 :  05:16:02  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed said something to me several years ago about "Star Elves" and being from Realmspace. I have been gone for several years and don't remember when I asked, but I will see if I can find it for you.
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moonbeast
Learned Scribe

USA
339 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2017 :  18:45:44  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lunatic Elves.

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Starshade
Learned Scribe

Norway
159 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2017 :  18:46:56  Show Profile Send Starshade a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting :)
How were the elves of Spelljammer in general, any similarity with those on Selune?
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1494 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2017 :  04:17:19  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

What kind of elves are on Selune.

The most fitting known subrace is Grey Elves: tall, light of both skin and hair, reclusive.
But they are probably a new breed, between the elven relationship with light and magic (both of which are peculiar on Selune) and existence as a separate population presumably long even by the elven standards.
I mean, their thing about "Toril wants to get us" probably goes back to the time when Tears of Selune were formed.
quote:
Then I thought about the Arak (aka "Shadow Elves" from the 2nd edition Ravenloft Shadow Rift).

They are "Openly Fey" (c) Mr. Welch, not common elves.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6218 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2017 :  12:42:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Tall, and with the blue-tinge of the moon Elves...

I'm actually picturing something like the Na'vi of the movie avatar. Alien, yet elven.



You know, since I saw this response, I've been trying to think of ways to include it. Its been bugging me for a month. I don't want them on the moon though. However, I haven't really developed Osse that well yet. I'm starting to really dig on the idea of "Jungle Giants" being in the interior of Osse, but with these being the literal Jungle Giants we're used to (Green Skinned giants) and ALSO a race very similar to the Na'vi as well who maybe doesn't get along with the jungle giants (bearing in mind that the Na'vi were really large... like 3 times the height of a human). Then stick in weird plants, animals that the na'vi can bond to (not horses, but big hunting animals works, not wyverns but something like rocs or REALLY giant eagles might just for the leaders), etc...

Then throw in the little Knorrman people on the southern outskirts using their giant wicker constructs to challenge these "Jotuns". Then on the northern shores, actual draconians (developed in Abeir long before Takhisis ever got the idea), then on the Eastern Coast aboriginal and islander native folk.


Oh, and regarding the moon... yeah, I'm still stuck on the idea of the Arak/Shee "ellefolk" being up there. Adds that bit of nefariousness I was looking for where there's some twisted folk under the surface. I still want to do some linkage between the "almost bred out" elves of Nimbral and the people of the moon... but I may just do something where some of the ellefolk and some actual Torilian elves met and bred (and created a whole new race of fey elven folk with stronger ties to illusion magic... a race that has become diluted by humanity to the point of near extinction).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 10 May 2017 12:47:08
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