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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
300 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2017 :  03:53:43  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Did Abeir have elves/drow? Maybe the drow called their world 'Threnody' (perhaps a hollow-Earth type of situation?)

I have a question: Whats a known assassin's organization in Nentir Vale?



Assassin organization on the Vale... mmm, I guess the Black Brotherhood, sort of evil band of mercenaries that do all kind of stuff for money and are always honorable and that.

Other assassin organization is the Iron Circle. The equivalent to Zhents but the Circle follows Asmodeus.

As for elves, AFAIK, elves were introduced to Returned Abeir only after the Spellplague changed Mex...tica with Laerakond. So, is really possible that elves do not exist in Abeir. Drow on the other had, seems to exist in that world since always.

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—There's always a catch, life's a catch, so catch it while you can...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 14 Feb 2017 :  18:26:48  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which is REALLY weird, because the Descent of the Drow occurred about 20K+ years AFTER the worlds were split apart. That would mean the Dark Elves on that world were affected by the events that happened on Toril (which means there WERE 'Elves' on Abeir at one point), OR... Drow somehow managed to find their way there later (which I actually like much better - they may have used the Underways - the 'Underdark' of the planes themselves).

I would connect the Black Brotherhood to the Zhents - say it was a group of them that had gone-over to Asmodeus post-3e (because their entire organization just fell apart during that period, after the Shades put a hurting on them real bad). It would make for an interesting juxtaposition - the Asmodeus-worshiping ex-Zhents vs the Bane-loving formal Zhents (although they might still be split into East & West as well).

Hmmmmm... East branch goes with 'new & improved' Core Bane (he fits their newer 'mercenary' take better anyway), the eastern branch goes over to Asmodeus (being that he has a hand in Sword Coast affairs now) and calls itself 'The Black Brotherhood' (isn't there one of those in WH40K?), and the southern branch stays with Cyric, and behave more like terrorists (religious fanatics hell-bent on taking territory). They would need their own name as well a hundred years later - "Cyric's Wack-a-Doddles"?

Nah... thats too serious a name for a group of Cyric worshipers.

We could even come up with a fourth branch in the Old Empires - 'Immortals' is too derivative. Maybe 'Hoar's Hellions', or some-such.
Except that the Zhents weren't active there, so there'd be no point in even linking such an organization to the Zhentarrim.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 14 Feb 2017 18:30:11
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 14 Feb 2017 :  20:18:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Expanding on Markus's idea... How about the Black Network for the original guys that went merc, the Black Sword for the Asmodean branch, and the Black Sun for the whackadoos Cyricists?

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  20:48:33  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like it... I like it a LOT! But maybe not 'black' for everything. As much as I hate to jump on the bandwagon, maybe 'Shadow network', or some-such? Then again, with their hatred of the Shades, maybe not.

EDIT: Maybe 'Dark'? It ties to the 'Dark Three'. And I like the way is sounds - 'Dark Network', 'Dark Brotherhood', 'Dark Sword', 'Dark Sun', etc...
I think I like "Cyric, the Dark Sun" better.

* UGH! * I responded to the end of pg.2 by accident with the following

I'm going to go for a 'light touch', and if they still don't like it, oh well. They're loss, really. I expect it be very well recieved, if for no other eason than a LOT of 4e DMs have been left out in the cold with this new focus on FR in 5e. Its basically a way to 'mend fences'.

And honestly, it fits so damn well in that spot, I can't even see how 'the grognards' would take too much umbrage with it; its quite possibly the ONLY large area in 'The North' (one of three, actually, but this spot is so much better for the current 5e campaign region) that can fit the entirety of the Nentir Vale (and Trollhaunt Warrens) without having to move anything (had to 'nudge maybe three things), or obliterate existing canon. Its pure win - 'additive design' at its finest. There'd be no logical reason not to allow it.

The GH stuff is very minor, and only a means in which to establish a very good reason for the existence of Nentir Vale without many people outside the Vale knowing of it (for instance, Volo was specifically told NOT to do a guide book on it, and any mention of it in other guides was wiped-clean by Elminster). It not only sets-up a decent backstory for the Vale (and the Chaos Scar, I might add), but it ties it to know FR canon (which is already tied to known GH canon), AND gives us a reason for why most of the 'Core' gods are in FR now (and were, even before the Spellplague - they've probably had a small presence since the ToT). So not so much me creating lore on a whim, for a setting that isn't part of the DM's Guild, but rather, its a "by way of explanation" thing. I started to write it all down, but then decided I was getting side-tracked from the map itself (which is still coming along nicely). At the end of the day, all we did was take an area of a highly-detailed, rich setting (that they are focusing on in 5e), and added another layer of detail to one of the very few regions that was nothing more than a large swaths of hills with nothing interesting going on for FOUR editions.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2017 20:55:32
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
29993 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  21:28:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll not argue whether Black or Dark is better, in this case... I just stuck with black because that's the established thing for the originating group. Since these theoretical groups were spawned from the Black Network, I kept black to reflect the origin, but changed the noun to show differentiation.

And Dark Sword brings to mind Weis & Hickman's Darksword books. Likewise, Dark Sun brings to mind a place with feral halflings... (Though, admittedly, Black Sun does bring Star Wars to mind, even though I never read the relevant novels)

I do like the idea of the Zhents splintering, but I'm not particularly wedded to any of those names, save for the Black Network.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  01:06:40  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know what the problem is here? WAY back when I first started playing games it was the 70's, and people said and did whatever they wanted and it was all good (after we just had a 'hippy epidemic', and the Vietnam War was finally over, so people were pretty mellow). People wouldn't take offense, even if offense was intended (ahhhh, the good old days!)

Now, everything I read, write, and do I have to re-think and ask myself, could someone take this the wrong way? For example, suppose you were attacked by these 'new age' Zents, but you didn't know which splinter-group it was, would it be okay to say, "Hey, we're getting attacked by some Black guys!" See what I mean?

I do find 'Black network' and all the others perfectly fine, and maybe I was over-thinking it. In the past few months, I feel like I have to defend everything I say, which is exhausting. You start to see problems even when there are none. And using any variant of 'Dark' wouldn't really be a whole hell of a lot better, anyhow.

Maybe someday the world will grow its sense of humor again, and everyone won't be so tense. {sigh}

On a side note, I was unaware of any 'Black Sun' SW thing, and I forgot about the DL 'Dark Sword' thing (having almost no interest in either setting). I did catch the 'Dark Sun' thing, though, and like it even more because of that. Dark Sun is a pretty crazy-arse setting, and it seems fitting to have a crazy-arse god with the same name, IMO.

Maybe 'Athas' is really just the inside of Cyric's mind.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2017 01:09:32
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  04:04:26  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Black Sun was a criminal empire in the Expanded Universe, but I just read today (when looking it up before my prior comment!) that it's been brought into the new canon. I knew it existed, I knew about the guy running it and the name of his ship, and that's about it.

And FYI, Darksword is not Dragonlance. There's an oblique reference to it at the end of the Tales trilogy, but the Darksword stuff happens mostly on a world called Thimhallon. And some on Earth, too, since Thimhallon was founded by Merlin as a home for Earth's magical refugees.

Back on topic... I'm weak on Asmodeus, since I see no point to having him in the Realms. Does he have a particular symbol and/or weapon he's associated with? That may be a more appropriate name.

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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
300 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  06:38:20  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Ruby Rod, that can kill gods (as is a part of the Shard of Pure Evil that powered up Tharizdun and maybe even Lolth).

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—There's always a catch, life's a catch, so catch it while you can...
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
718 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  10:11:09  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The three triangles comes to mind as a symbol for Asmodeus, used to great effect in Brimstone Angels.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  13:55:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU

The three triangles comes to mind as a symbol for Asmodeus, used to great effect in Brimstone Angels.



That's something we can work with... Depending on the arrangement of the triangles, our theoretical Asmodean offshoot of the Zhents can be something like the Black Trident or the Dark Pyramid.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  21:39:16  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is his ring

And thats his symbol. Sort-of looks a bit like a fiend's head. Triangles are often associated with evil/power - a pentagram is really just five triangles stuck on a pentagon (and usually there are 'dark symbols' inscribed inside those triangles in many representations).

I agree that we didn't need Asmodeus, but he's here now, so we may as well come up with nifty ways to use and/or spin him.


EDIT:
Maybe just call his organization 'Trinity' - that would drive some folks nuts.

Even play-off the formal Zhent names for stuff, like have 'The Dark Network' while the eastern Zhents still use 'Black network'. Make it obvious that he's 'horning in' on Cyric's turf (and being a lawful entity, he would know how much that would make a chaotic entity absolutely nuts... and maybe force them into making a stupid, snap-decision). So you'd want three branches to the Western Zhents - Dark Network (spies), Dark Blades (mercs), and maybe 'Dark Sons' (Darkthanes?) as the leadership - the power-brokers.

The Zhents-proper would have 'The Black Network' (as always), the Black Swords (mercs/military branch), and the 'Black Sun' (priesthood/leaders).

Maybe have the Asmodeus mercs have a tattoo with his symbol (arm or head), and the Cyric branch use 'branding' instead (forehead?). Maybe ritual scarring for the followers of Bane(I forgot we were first discussing three groups, and I somehow dumbed-it-down to just two).

EDIT2: As for the map, I was hoping to have something new to show today, but ran into a major snafu with the trees (I changed the direction of the shadows without changing the direction of the highlights), so I have to completely re-do all the forests (but I still have the height maps I made, so hopefully it won't take me all that long... we'll see). I only noticed this when I added-in the High Forest, which is correct, and also redid Kryptgarden's trees (so I noticed the weirdness compared to other, nearby trees).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2017 21:58:53
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
40 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  20:14:51  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If Arkhosia is just represented by ruins showing up during the spellplague, what about the epic war with Bael Turath?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  20:33:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Stuff Happened" LOL (I haven't gotten back to the lore end of things in awhile - I didn't want to bog down with that and not get the map done).
Perhaps the 'epic war' took place in a third-party environment, like the Shadowfell or Feywild? (Thus, we can say both empires had access to the same region in one of those planes). Something like that - I'm sure we can get it all to work eventually. I'd have to complete the timeline to see what works and what doesn't (we have a hundred years of 'nothing' lore-wise, and a big 'ol magical mess to blame it all on).

I popped in here because someone told me in an earlier comment where the Carnath Roadhouse was located, or rather, what product I could find it in. Unfortunately, I've blown my budget on what I was willing to spend researching this stuff, so does anyone has access to that info in Tyranny of Dragons? Was there a map? Anything? I'm working on correcting some of the stuff in Princes of the Apocalypse - the maps had a lot of funkiness involved, and some folks over at Enworld came up with solutions (although once I scaled everything properly, it solved quite a bit of that).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Feb 2017 20:35:37
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
40 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  21:07:21  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Second post on page 2 of this thread.
Carnath Roadhouse is from Hoard of the Dragon Queen. There's a map of the place, but not where it's located. The travel description says that the caravan spots the Mere of Dead Men after 7 days travel from Waterdeep, and reach the Roadhouse after 10.
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
300 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  21:18:05  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matrix Sorcica

If Arkhosia is just represented by ruins showing up during the spellplague, what about the epic war with Bael Turath?



According to the article "Vor Kragal" (can be downloaded for free in WotC website), that is about the capital city of Bael Turath, the Turathi empire expanded not only in the world or the Underdark, but also to other planes. I can see the Turathi colonies on Abeir as the trigger for an epic war against the Arkhosians (maybe the Turathi began to colonize Arkhosian lands in Abeir).

—Is there a catch?
—There's always a catch, life's a catch, so catch it while you can...
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
40 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  21:41:02  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good idea, both of you. Think it could work.
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
300 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  21:48:43  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your welcome.

If I can ask something for this project, I like to ask Markustay to add the village of Atwater to the map. Is a homebrewed village I made up for one adventure, but have a lot of sentimental value for me (?). Here is my crappy map for the location (and if you're interested, I can translate the lore about it to english). It's the point "11" in the map.

http://i.imgur.com/vZfGkhL.png

—Is there a catch?
—There's always a catch, life's a catch, so catch it while you can...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 19 Feb 2017 21:49:37
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  22:24:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I already got an outline of what happened there in my head, based on some of my conjecture in my last post; basically, The Shadowlord (of Ebenfar) created his own 'princes' for his realm by summoning fiends and creating Tieflings (although we probably have to go with the whole 4e thing connecting them to Asmodeus). Regardless, he got himself some tieflings as lieutenants, and then tasked them to find 'regions with powerful connections to shadow' (for his plans of expanding his empire). Then he was defeated by Talek Talembar, and his tielfing lieutenants scattered - one particular group fled to the Never (Nentir) Vale, where they had previously establish a fortress, having detected much shadow-energy in the area. From that base of operations the Bael Turath (of FR) began, keeping contact with other, former Ebenfar outposts, and establishing a major beachhead within the Shadowfell itself. From their Shadowfell holdings, the Bael Turath spread their evil into other worlds and planes. One of the first they discovered was one very close to Toril itself - Abeir. The world was in the same Sphere as Toril, but 'out of sync' with it, and therefor very hard to reach by any normal means. And so began their push into Abeir, attacking and taking the lands of many other peoples and kigndoms, including the great empire of Arkhosia. Such was the ferocity of the Dragonborn that the Tiefling armies met with that they were pushed back to the Shadowfell in most places, and the Arkhosians themselves built a presence within the Realm of Shadows, just to counter the Bael Tuarth aggressions.

And so it went, for several centuries, with one side occasionally pushing the other out of the Shadows, but no victory was long-lived, as the other side countered. Eventually these 'paths through shadow' became closed off, and many of the troops became stranded in one world or the other, or in the Shadofell. Although many believe it was the war itself that had whittled-down the power of both kingdoms, it was this lost of planer pathways ("The Road of Stars & Shadows") that caused the most damage to the now fractured Tielfing empire. Bael Turath fell into obscurity in The Realms, its ruins only to be discovered much later during the NERATH initiative to settle the Never (Nentir) Vale. Still later, when the Spellplague struck, the old pathways were forced back open, violently, and the shadowfell regurgitated much of what was forced upon it from the two worlds. Parts of both worlds were swapped, and many dragonborn found themselves on Toril, the world of their ancient enemies.

quote:
Originally posted by Matrix Sorcica

Second post on page 2 of this thread.
Carnath Roadhouse is from Hoard of the Dragon Queen. There's a map of the place, but not where it's located. The travel description says that the caravan spots the Mere of Dead Men after 7 days travel from Waterdeep, and reach the Roadhouse after 10.

Ah, okay - wrong product. I actually DO have that one. Thanks.

I just wanted to know how much detail it had, because I found an adventure in an old Dungeon magazine that is just PERFECT for it.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Feb 2017 23:41:51
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2017 :  22:33:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Your welcome.

If I can ask something for this project, I like to ask Markustay to add the village of Atwater to the map. Is a homebrewed village I made up for one adventure, but have a lot of sentimental value for me (?). Here is my crappy map for the location (and if you're interested, I can translate the lore about it to english). It's the point "11" in the map.

http://i.imgur.com/vZfGkhL.png

No problem at all - I already added one of my own; actually, something taken from Dungeon Magazine, for no other reason then I needed a tiny settlement there to explain a road, so I found a town that appeared in 2 different Dungeon adventures (stupidly, I didn't pick one with a map - I'll have to remedy that).

yes, I would be interested in its lore. I see how much attention to detail you spent on other things. We can include it in the final PDF version of the conversion.

EDIT:
I see 'Gray Company Headquarters' on two of the maps. What is this? A small settlement? A keep? Just a cluster of tents?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Feb 2017 00:56:50
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
718 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  01:06:56  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I vaguely remember them as a small but powerful mercenary group, only numbering at 5 or 6. They were all some special sort of undead IIRC, but it's been a while. If they are the group I'm thinking of, they were detailed in the Nentir Vale monster book.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
300 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  01:09:32  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of, the Gray Company. In NV canon, is a company of "loyalists" of old Nerath ideals and that stuff, who protect the old relics of the Empire and the good peoples, and all that rubbish. In truth, they use their "connection" to the old empire to plunder and steal people who have "old heirlooms from the Empire". They have like 30 leaders, all claiming to be the "last descendant of Emperor Elydir" (last emperor of Nerath). You can imagine the chaos when two cells meet.

They have "Mist Mages", spellcasters who control mist and undeads, and are dangerous in the Barrow (because the mists are more powerful there).

The one in the Barrows is their Nentir Vale cell. They are searching for the lost Sword of Nerath (a magic sword consecrated to Erathis (Athena)), that is believed to be near the Lake Nen; and the Triplefold Crown (a Crown that gives the owner power over the mortal realm, the Feywild and the Shadowfell. Or so the legend says).

In my FR conversion, I've made them a third faction of the Sons of Alagondars. With a "lost heir" and that stuff. Mmm maybe I can connect this to the storyline of the fake crown of my next campaign.

—Is there a catch?
—There's always a catch, life's a catch, so catch it while you can...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 20 Feb 2017 01:12:10
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  02:24:03  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The question wasn't so much a 'who', but rather, "what are they living in"?

Their 'headquarters' is on the map, but that doesn't tell me a damn thing about what that is (a structure? a camp?)
I was just going to put a keep there (you can never have too many keeps in a D&D campaign), but I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some canon telling us what it is.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
300 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  03:18:41  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Monster Vault on Nentir Vale only says that they have their headquarters in the Gray Downs, and because of that they call themselves the Gray Company... :v so, I guess this time is up to you.

—Is there a catch?
—There's always a catch, life's a catch, so catch it while you can...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  03:20:27  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A keep... with a moat... with sharks in it... with freakin' lasers on their heads!

Too much?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13563 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  23:34:28  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
'Blackleaf ruins'? Between the Harken Forest and the Witchlight Fens? What kind of ruins are they?

Also, on the map you directed me (linked) to - the one from the WotC site - it says "Ghost Tower #1" right next to Kalton Manor; is this correct? I thought I recalled you saying something about the tower being on the same grounds as the Manor.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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