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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2017 :  00:37:49  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Blackleaf was village destroyed by a monster "a few weeks ago" when the Nentir Vale campaign start.

The Ghost Tower of the Witchlight Fens is a few miles north of Kalton Manor, properly in the Fens, visible from the ruins of the Manor, so is near. The map I have has the location wrong.

And there are a few standing stones from Bael Turath near the Tower (to the west, IIRC) as well. Those are the entrance to a subterranean complex of ruins.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2017 :  01:43:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great, thanks.
I've already decided to do a 'blow up' version of this map when I'm done, just detailing the Nentir Vale itself (so basically, that piece of the map I've already posted for you guys to see, but 2x the size). I don't want the map to get too crowded, so I will put the 'fine' details on that one, like road names and stuff.

I've been picking through your great write-up of the entire Nerath/NV setting at the Piazza - its a pretty amazing and detailed labor of love. Some nifty stuff in there - I got some more ideas about what to do with the tielfings and dragonborn (and it all makes sense within the context of the 4e lore). I may even use some of the 'remote areas' on this or other maps (like the Frostfell - its a perfect fit in FR's Frozenfar).

You wouldn't happen to have a pdf version of that, would you? I've been meaning to copy & paste the whole thing into a document of my own, but if you have one it would save me the trouble.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2017 :  05:52:09  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you don't mind my really horrible english, I have made a gazetteer of sorts for the Nentir Vale. In the Nentir Vale section is an updated version of that post (I have to update that post, btw). I have not done anything like this to the regions beyond Nentir Vale, though. You can download it here.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 21 Feb 2017 06:37:39
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2017 :  06:48:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, okay. That's the thing from the other thread? I think I already downloaded that. It seems MUCH longer than the stuff you put up at the Piazza, which DID include info outside of NV (some of which, as I've said, I intend to include).

And I haven't discerned anything wrong with your English.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 21 Feb 2017 06:49:03
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2017 :  07:07:17  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Grammar stuff. That stings, because I'm a perfectionist, lol.

And nope. The other document is a "history compilation" (it had all historic lore I know of the setting), while this is document is like a campaign setting of sorts. It has detailed info about the Nentir Vale, like info about how classes and races are developed in this setting, specific monsters of the Vale, info about towns and a few adventure sites.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2017 :  18:52:08  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Still working on this - mostly doing research the past few days (I don't want to place anything in such a way that it conflicts with other stuff, or its own canon info).

I was trying to find the current NV date (so I know when other things happened in DR reckoning, in the blended timeline), and I noticed you had an entry for Brindol. Is the Elisr Vale stuff supposed to be on the Nerath World as well?
I placed it down in the Shaar (where it belonged - 'Brindol' is the FR town of Rethmar) in a map I did as an 'official' placement, but IMG I have it to the north, around Mirabar, which makes me now think it wouldn't be a bad idea to do that here as well.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2017 18:52:26
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2017 :  19:54:00  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elsir Vale can be placed in the Nentir Vale world (there is no official placement, but Elsir Vale is related to Nerath in the Scales of War adventure path), but AFAIK, Elsir Vale can be placed in nearly every official world (Red Hand of Doom takes place in Greyhawk, and has official locations for Elsir Vale in FR and Eberron).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2017 :  20:20:25  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
RHoD is officially in GH? Even though the map was directly lifted right out of FR's Shaar?

Okaaaaaaaay...

I've noticed a couple of other 'generic' things that are actually in FR, although the way they wrote the 4e lore they just fudged stuff so it it appeared generic (like lore in Open Grave).

Regardless, there's a nice open area around and below Mirabar that will fit the Elsir Vale material nicely (although I can't do a blended version, as I did with NV, because we already have that EXACT geography to the south... so it would just be weird). Instead, I am going to make the AP sites work within the existing FR terrain in that area.

The beauty of this, as I move forward, is that I've come to appreciate the... versatility.. of 4e lore. You can 'layer' it like you were never able to in 1e/2e/3e FR. What I mean is, I am shunting most of the Arkhosian stuff into Abeir, and I am shifting much of the Bael Turath stuff into the Shadowfel (so the war shifted back-and-forth across worlds). Lastly, I am putting the Minotaur empire stuff in the Feywild, since some of it was already there anyway. I can fit entire empires into FR without actually having to physically fit them into The Realms. It also means that most of the 'history' is self-contained. Thats pretty damn neat, IMO.

EDIT:
Okay, so here I am resizing the RHoD map to the scale of the NV/FR conversion map, and trying to find a fairly decent placement (even though I am adapting it to the existing terrain, i still want things to fall-out around where they would have in the original - because if the APs are used, distances matter). I found a spot that was actually ideal (the dwarven holds couldn't have worked out better). The one thing that doesn't work is the big lake (which is Lake Lhespen in FR), but that's fine because I didn't want to copy the terrain anyway. I have this nice, 'swampy' area around the Ice Lakes just to the west there that are perfect. So I decide that I want to fit the Blackfens in there, right along the eastern edge of those lakes, between an existing road and an existing river...

The road is called The Blackford Road, and the river is the Black Raven River.

Pretty much the definition of the word 'serendipitous' right there.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2017 20:43:17
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2017 :  21:28:23  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The good thing about 4e core lore its that it was modular. You can use it in whatever form you like, if you wanted to use it. If they have done the same with 4e FR, I can bet there would not have been edition wars and lore problems... too bad they learned that by the end of 4e (as shown in the Neverwinter Campaign Setting).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 22 Feb 2017 21:29:18
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
48 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2017 :  08:11:43  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Red Hand of Doom is not officially in GH at all, Zeromaru must be misremebering. In 3e, it was 'worldless', but used a map identical to the FR one, allowing GMs to place it effortlessly in the Realms. The Elsir Vale is part of 4e canon - the Red Hand itself is mentioned in the DMG, there's a reference to Nerath in trhe Scales of War AP, and the Fane of Tiamat features in a delve in Dungeon Delve. So there's that.

MArkus, It would be so cool if you Elsir gets included as well :)
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2017 :  08:58:38  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote

RHoD mentions specific gods of Greyhwak, such as St. Cuthbert and Flag...something, the god of travels (IIRC). But yeah, it was generic enough to be put in any setting. And has guidelines to be located in Faerun and in Khorvaire. Later, Scales of War adopted it as part of Nerath, but those gods I mentioned before do not exist in NV world, so maybe the Elsir Vale of the Scales of War maybe is a "parallel" version of the original one from 3.5 that existed in NV world (not the first time that something like this happens in NV world: we have Inverness Castle, Erelhei-Cinlu and many others examples of parallel versions of regions from other worlds in NV world).

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Feb 2017 09:03:00
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
48 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2017 :  13:17:34  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe. I think the mentioning of the GH gods is because those were the default 3E gods, and the module itself is setting neutral (except for using a piece of renamed FR map). No biggie, though.
As for 4E, I think it's safe to say it's part of the canon (the AP, the dungeon delve).
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2017 :  13:24:30  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, its ingrained in NV canon. Instead of optional, as it happens with their guidelines for FR or Eberron.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2017 :  17:31:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, they took an FR map (methinks some designers 'home campaign'), and attached 'Core' rules/lore to it (which makes you think its GH), and then made offhand mentions of the Nentir Vale... which leaves it really in weird 'game limbo' (Abeir? )

Not really a joke - I am starting to think placing the 'non-setting' 4e setting in Abeir is ideal - I used to jokingly think of Abeir as 'gods attic' where he stores all the crap he isn't currently using (like extra legos), but now I'm starting to take that theory seriously. What if its not just for FR? What if its something closer to The Domains of Dread? Stuff gets moved in and out of it all the time, and the people there are none the wiser. IT gives Abeir a certain... creepier... vibe. We know that FR has become the 'center of the Prime Material' (a theory I threw around TEN years ago or more *ahem*) in 5e lore - that somehow everything that happens to it affects everything else (in the multiverse). So what if thats it? Ao gets this boatload of 'pieces' that he is constantly rearranging, and everything he doesn't currently want or need goes into Abeir... which means stuff from ALL OVER the multiverse could wind up there (and eventually in FR... or GH).

From a RW PoV, this is EXACTLY what happened with FR. "Desert of Desolation? Rewrite it and shoe-horn it into the Realms. Bloodstone Lands? Lets get rid of some of that ice and stick it in there. What?! Our 'British initiative' got cancelled?! Oh crap... lets just stick the Moonshaes in FR. Lots of 'kewl' pantheons? We can stick those down in the old Empires. RW Mesoamerican and Asian history? Oh boy... we're gonna need more room..."

Ao is VERY real, and he has MANY names - Io, TSR, WotC, Hasbro...

quote:
Originally posted by Matrix Sorcica

MArkus, It would be so cool if you Elsir gets included as well :)

DONE

But honestly, I had decided to do this last night anyway. I *may* move the current NV/FR map slightlty down coast (giving us some stuff right up to Waterdeep, which is pretty neat), just so that I can do another full map (some overlap) above it. I wuld probably even be able to cover Icewind Dale that way. I haven't played with any of that - just made that decision last night as I was going to bed, and today I am busy AF doing RW stuff, so I won't know for sure which way I want to proceed until later.

And for those folks waiting on my Cormyr > Impiltur maps, this won't really cost me a whole lot more time (most of it was already laid-out - my maps are always WAAAAY bigger than the ones I finally release). Sad as it sounds, I think something like this will see 10x or more usage than something like those, if only because all the focus seems to be over to the west right now - its where 5e is located. 'Usability' has become my primary criteria these days; my time is limited, and I don't like to waste it.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2017 17:42:36
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
48 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2017 :  18:41:21  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So excited!
This ends up being the end all be all for setting maps. So many cool sites and adventure seeds in those areas, combined with my favorite FR part. Nice!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2017 :  17:33:41  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Should have something later today. Its been slow-going.

The forest just west of the Old Hills has no name?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 17 Mar 2017 :  18:18:44  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Canon? None.

In my homebrew campaign I named it the Howling Forest, a canon forest where the fey city of Shinaelestra appears in the mortal world every night. Canonically it makes sense, because Mithrendain is also close to the Nentir Vale. Specifically, close to Winterhaven (according to Madness at Garmore Abbey), and eladrin from Mithrendain are common in the Vale. If we look the official map of the Feywild (from Heroes of the Feywild), Mithrendain is close to Shinaelestra, making the place a perfect site to cross between the two worlds.

http://imgur.com/B1jQkXb

The forest in the Chaos Scar (that is an off-shot of the forest west to the Old Hills) is also a place infested with fey creatures, so placing the Howling Forest there makes sense.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Mar 2017 18:27:24
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  18:55:56  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Weird day today and the internet is being real slow for me, so I have no update as of yet (although I'm REAL close to one - I just need to drop all the text down to one layer to put the glow around it). I'm only about 1/3 of the way through that (got too busy yesterday adding more, rather then just polishing and posting what I already had.

Plus, I got side-tracked on the Jakandor/Abeir near Chult map (which became somewhat more involved than it was supposed to, when I decided to color it in). ADHD is at it again. {sigh}

Trust me, the wait is gonna be worth it. The only thing I wasn't 100% happy with was a 'moor' kind of terrain. Right now I am using the old FR standard, AND using Mike Schley's art in the Nentir Vale region. Unfortunately, over the years, many designers (and authors) seem to have a problem with the 'moor' terrain type, and pictured it more like a 'badlands', or a swamp/marsh - I've seen the high Moor represented as all three. So now I am playing with things - maybe a 'wetter' version of the rolling hills (which I am also working on perfecting - not as spiffy as Mike's, but I'm getting there).

So Mike's terrain is still on MY version of the Nentir Vale because I haven't perfected the 'badlands' thing yet. I rather have it look nice than have that part ruin the rest (and it falls under the category of 'derivative work'). I'll have it replaced before the project is finalized, though. As I said, its more of a 'placeholder' for now because I want to post another update without bogging down in 'style development'. This map is going much slower than usual because of that (but I consider it practice for my real project - the new maps of Faerűn I am dying to get back to).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2017 18:58:13
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
785 Posts

Posted - 18 Mar 2017 :  19:22:14  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I said before, take your time. Seeing your other maps, I know the wait will be worth it.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2017 :  13:52:20  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Worked on this the better part of yesterday. I even have the full Princes of the Apocalypse book now (from Amazon - amazing how once you get used to using PDF's for research, physical books seem weird now). I wanted to get enough done to post a WIP, but still haven't gotten all the names grouped together in single layers (its more time-consuming than I anticipated; since I can't edit names after I do that, I have to double-check everything and make sure they're positioned perfectly/not in the way of other text, correctly spelled, spaced right, etc). I also wanted to add-in a bunch of Underdark sites, which I had to research to get perfect, and that ate up a lot of the day as well. I should have waited on that until the next update.

I don't want you guys to think I've given up on this one. Its just that I have less time now, but I do try and put in at least a couple of hours each day.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Apr 2017 13:55:39
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
48 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2017 :  20:19:56  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

As I said before, take your time. Seeing your other maps, I know the wait will be worth it.


What he said.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2017 :  17:04:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zeromaru X - in your notes you just mention the village of Riverslye (halfling settlement) being "on the White River" in Harkenwold. However, I see on one customized NV map they have Riverslye in the same exact spot as the "Ilyana's House" adventure site. Is that correct? Is the adventure locale inside Riverslye?

Because I placed it elsewhere on the River, and since I plan to release what I have so far later today, I wanted to make sure there weren't any mistakes.

In General:
Now that I have the PotA book (and its much better than I had hoped it would be), I notice there are some slight differences between it and the 'freebie' PotA 'starter' that was available for download from the Adventurer's guild. Since I understand PotA has been updated with it's errata (and hopefully I got one of these updated copies - haven't checked that yet), any time there is an irreconcilable difference I am going to have to go with the purchased book over the free supplement. I have barely touched the surface, but I noticed right away that the Netherese were blamed for the original temples in the supplement, but the Drow were blamed in the book (and both could easily be true, considering the ages of the ruins, although its odd that they each ignore the lore of the other).

I do love the 'greater D&Dverse' approach to Elemental Evil, and how they tie it all to the Elder Elemental Eye (and hint at the connection between it and Ghaunadaur). They actually did a much better job of 'smoothing the edges' than I was lead to believe. Also tying it to Besilmar was pure win (another dwarven ruin!). Its not that far from the ancient realm of Miyeritar, and it would be kind of cool to connect everything (so maybe the Aryvandaar Elves weren't 'entirely' wrong about their destruction of Miyeritar... just something to think about).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2017 :  02:37:44  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zeromaru X - you still with us? I can't lose you, man!

I was hoping to get that info on Riverslye; I tried finding it myself but to no avail. I actually have the next update ready - I've just been adding stuff from the NWN2 video game to kill time the past few days. I guess I'll post what I have in the morning.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
744 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2017 :  03:32:15  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just saw your post about PotA and errata Markustay - if you weren't already aware, beware the map scale! They changed it drastically in the errata. I can't remember if either line up well, but I'm pretty sure the errata was at least an improvement.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2017 :  05:49:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have some of that worked out. I haven't gotten the Keeps perfectly placed yet, because I need to go through the entire book, and haven't had time. For now they're just placed 'in the vicinity' an are just labeled 'Abandoned Keeps' (as they were before that AP). I don't think my map will be 100% matching theirs, but that's because some of their terrain didn't match up to older maps (nothing too major), or even to each other, and also I want the PotA AP to be able to be run straight from my map, without the need to reference the badly scaled overland maps (the smaller maps are fine, for the most part - The errata takes care of those). In fact, the idea is to be able to run ALL the 4e and 5e material off this one map (which is why I need help with the 4e stuff - I have no access to all those D&D Insider articles).

I'm just going to leave Riverslye where I placed it, until someone tells me its wrong. The map still has a ways to go, so there'll be time to correct it later. I'll put up what I have tomorrow - I still have to do the glow around a couple of groups (the Nentir Stuff) first thing, and my heads too fuzzy to get that all perfect right now.

EDIT:
Got it! "Two miles west of Albridge". The map I found has it wrong, but my placement is far worse. Pity - its was a great spot. I'll have to put something else there (saw another town - Raske - in that same issue that maybe I can use).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 27 Apr 2017 06:27:35
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