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Oris
Acolyte
2 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jan 2017 : 23:48:21
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(Not directly Realms related, although it is a Realms campaign I'm running; apologies if this is off-topic.)
So, in the campaign I'm currently running the party is pursuing a group of other adventurers they believe are Meddling In Things Best Left Alone. Due to some less than discreet mishaps by the players, I think it's reasonable that word has now been passed to their targets that somebody is after them.
Now, they're actually in a hurry, and aren't going to turn around and retrace their steps just to deal with the party. But I figure they might send one of their group back to waylay/delay the party - probably a rogue, who can't and won't take them on in combat, but can do a good job of delaying them.
Thing is - realistically, the party's enemies aren't stupid, and anybody they send back is going to be intelligent enough to realise what's the most effective things they can do - i.e. try to steal any potentially magic items the party has!
This all makes sense (and the party really doesn't take enough precautions against this, so it's perfectly plausible) - but it also seems kind of unexciting to just tell the players, "So, yeah, you wake up the next day, and you're missing these items. Nope, I rolled the relevant checks, you didn't wake up while this was going on. Sucks to be you."
How can I finesse this so the party does pay the price for being indiscreet and letting their opponents be warned of the pursuit - while still being able to have a fun gaming session?
Have the thief get away with some items, but have the party wake up "just as the thief is getting away" so they can pursue? Seems a little contrived ... but at least it doesn't rob the players of all agency.
Any other suggestions for how to handle this...? Thanks in advance for any advice.
(I should clarify - I don't feel the party has way too many magic items; this isn't a way for me to rid the campaign of items I think they shouldn't have. It just seems like a reasonable trick for their enemies to play at this point - if I can make it happen in a fun way.)
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Edited by - Oris on 21 Jan 2017 23:49:21
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 01:44:36
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I definitely wouldn't just tell the players their items are gone - that's the sort of DM behaviour that leads to table arguments & a lack of trust of the players in the DM, as at any moment you might just do that again, stealing away what they earned without any chance to defend themselves or their property.
If the thief route is still what you want to do, perhaps consider a way of doing it that involves the players more actively and goves them a chance to defend themselves. I'm assuming they keep a watch at night, for one - so at the very least allow the watchperspon a Perception check. And most adventurers (in my own experience) are careful to keep magical items on them, even when sleeping - so Sleight of Hand checks should be involved. To reduce player anger, perhaps even consider rolling these checks in front of the players, so they can see it's not all just DM fiat. Yes, perhaps in most circumstances those checks should be made without the players' knowledge, but they're going to find out what happened very shortly anyway - and I would think most people would prefer to see such a thing done in good faith. YMMV by players at your table.
If you want to give the thief a relatively high chance of success you could have them use an alchemical item or their own magic item to aid their efforts: something the players can steal for themselves as an incentive/reward for dealing with the problem, either during or well after the theft. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 02:29:57
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NPC vs. PC always can be a bit of a problem. The DM can some times leak info to the NPCs. This is always a danger.
A quick look at what you indicate is that the NPC party (on quest) has become aware that one or more heroes are searching them to stop the quest. While word of month can travel faster then adventurers at times, it strikes me as unlikely the information would be good enough to know the party. The exception of course being a names party (Sigal Avengers for example)well known.
Spliting a party, PC or NPC always holds danger to the party as a whole.
Send an NPC thief back and he might get detected by the Fighter or thief of the party before anything could be taken.
It occurs to me that the pursued party can cause many delays by informing the local Watches that they have heard about a group of Assassins are pursuing them. Giving descriptions of the following party.
The search for assassins should slow the following party, without the NPC party risking a member of their own group.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 04:24:51
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quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU
I definitely wouldn't just tell the players their items are gone - that's the sort of DM behaviour that leads to table arguments & a lack of trust of the players in the DM, as at any moment you might just do that again, stealing away what they earned without any chance to defend themselves or their property.
Very much agreed!
Me, I'd go a slightly different route: the PCs decide that they have to go for some particular item or something, and they get there to find a mocking note from their rivals indicating the rivals got there and stole it first, just to thwart the PCs.
Or go the Belloq route, from Raiders of the Lost Ark: "Once again, Dr. Jones, we see there is nothing you can possess that I cannot take away."
Have the PCs shed the proverbial blood, sweat, and tears trying to get something. They stagger back out of the dungeon, and there's the rival team, with enough hired thugs to keep the PCs busy. The bad guys take whatever item it is away from the PCs, then ride off on the PC's horses while the PCs deal with the thugs. The PCs do beat the thugs, but by that time, the bad guys have an insurmountable lead and the PCs are facing a very long walk...
Either option accomplishes the same basic goal of delaying the PCs, and both would make them burn for revenge at those rivals -- but it keeps them focused on those in-game rivals, and not the DM that arbitrarily took all their stuff away. |
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Oris
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2017 : 09:46:42
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quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU
I definitely wouldn't just tell the players their items are gone - that's the sort of DM behaviour that leads to table arguments & a lack of trust of the players in the DM, as at any moment you might just do that again, stealing away what they earned without any chance to defend themselves or their property.
Yep - hence my original question. Regardless of how 'realistic' it would be for the enemy thief to do such a thing, it's not a fun D&D game if the players don't have a chance to do something.
Some more information on the party:
quote:
I'm assuming they keep a watch at night, for one - so at the very least allow the watchperspon a Perception check.
Well, that's the thing - they're properly careful when out in the wilderness; watches, Alarm spell, the full works. But when staying at an inn at town, they're actually not that careful: they lock the door to their rooms and, er, that's about it. (It's sort of understandable - innkeepers are going to look at you weird if you have someone patrolling their inn throughout the night - but it is also a vulnerability on their part. I guess they haven't yet realised how indiscreet they've been.)
quote:
If you want to give the thief a relatively high chance of success you could have them use an alchemical item or their own magic item to aid their efforts: something the players can steal for themselves as an incentive/reward for dealing with the problem, either during or well after the theft.
I do like that idea - providing I can make it clear, it allows a good reward if they can stop/track the thief down. Also the point about letting the players make checks/doing them in public, if I do send a thief in - will make them feel like it wasn't just completely arbitrary.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
A quick look at what you indicate is that the NPC party (on quest) has become aware that one or more heroes are searching them to stop the quest. While word of month can travel faster then adventurers at times, it strikes me as unlikely the information would be good enough to know the party.
Well - FWIW, the party hasn't been particularly careful; they've basically been riding around asking "Hey, have you seen <leader of enemy group>?" They were careful enough not to say "...because we want to track her down and kill her!" and instead spin a yarn about being old friends, but no disguises were used. Additionally, one of the party (unbeknownst to the other players!) has managed to steal a fair amount of jewellery from an aristocrat the party was dealing with.
I fully applaud that, because it's totally consistent with his character, and the rest of the party were suspicious he'd do something like that which would ruin things for them, but he managed to do so and cover it up long enough for them to leave town - but it does mean there's a fairly rich and angry noblewoman who's been motivated to cause grief to the party. Hence why I've decided word definitely has been passed to their targets.
So, while none of their targets have ever met the party, nor is the party that well known throughout the local lands, I'm willing to say their targets now have - courtesy of the angry noblewoman - an accurate description and set of names for the party. Before that event, I was going with "they might have heard someone was asking after them".
quote:
It occurs to me that the pursued party can cause many delays by informing the local Watches that they have heard about a group of Assassins are pursuing them. Giving descriptions of the following party.
The search for assassins should slow the following party, without the NPC party risking a member of their own group.
That does make plenty of sense, and is definitely one tactic I can use.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Me, I'd go a slightly different route: the PCs decide that they have to go for some particular item or something, and they get there to find a mocking note from their rivals indicating the rivals got there and stole it first, just to thwart the PCs.
Hmm, good point. Right now they aren't after any particular item - but certainly if that occurs, I can use that.
I've got some ideas, so thanks for the advice all - depending on how fast the players move, stuff is likely to happen within the next two weeks, so I'll report back on how things went  |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2017 : 20:36:26
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| Wait.... wait, wait, wait, wait. A noble woman has reason to believe that the party stole her jewelry?!? A person used to being treated as better than almost everyone else since she was born has just been directly disrespected with the theft of an expensive status symbol by a group of people whom she had been trying to help? The other party can use that indignation to get a posse after the party, a bounty on their heads, and the law/vigilantes making their lives miserable even after they manage to legally clear things up because that message travels slower than the initial calls for justice. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe
151 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2017 : 16:07:08
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I'm probably a little late to the show here, but personally I wouldn't so much be thinking that the rivaling group has gotten word of the PC party yet, as I'd ramp up the consequences of the theft. You can cause an awful lot of trouble for the PC's, simply on account of the theft, and at the same time avoid getting into a position where one or more NPC's steal their stuff during the night.
The PC's managed ot officially piss off someone with power, wealth, and influence. They've taken advantage of the noble's aid and/or hospitality, and they have not only broken the law and stolen from her, they've also violated the laws of common decency. So not only will there be a call for justice to find the PC's, there'll also be outrage of this breach of hospitality, so to speak. The noble will have names or at least descriptions, and she'll have the ability to send word to the various towns and villages + any other local sources of authority. She might even put up a bounty for the arrest and punishment of the PC's. Depending on how far ahead the rival party is, they might hear about this band of thieves who robbed a noble, or they might not. They might also get word that someone is asking around for them, and depending on how long time they spend tracking down this info, they might also learn that the thieves they've heard about, is really the same people whose been asking about them. If they learn this, then they might decide to aid the local authorities in tracking down the PC's, and cause trouble for them indirectly. Doing it that way will allow the PC's to face their problem head on, and if they are captured, they will be delayed. And if they are arrested, then their gear might be held in a place where the NPC thief can get at it. In that case, they will loose their gear, but only temporarily, assuming they can catch up with the rival party. Or perhaps more fun, the rival party will be nice to them out of professional respect, and only wrap up their gear, and send it with a caravan the wrong way, in order to delay them, or they might hide it and leave the party a clue as to where they can recover their gear (which provide you with a nice little side quest and potential dungeon crawl without their normal gear, at the end of which they'll recover their gear ;-) ), which will also delay them in their hunt for the rival party. |
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Advice on stealing party's gear
