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Gyor
Senior Scribe

993 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  16:48:28  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
Do you want a FRCG?

Choices:

Yes
No

(Anonymous Vote)

Gyor
Senior Scribe

993 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  16:49:35  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Someones post in the other thread made me realize I didn't ask a basic question.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2555 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  17:02:17  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess that most people will answer yes on FR-dedicated sites like Candlekeep. You should ask that question on more general sites like ENWorld. The answer that you'll receive there will likely be much different. Sadly, I've seen a lot of hate--indifference at best--for the Realms there.

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Edited by - Irennan on 07 Dec 2016 17:02:32
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Bravesteel
Seeker

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  18:03:15  Show Profile Send Bravesteel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted "no" as I stated in the other thread. I just don't see a real need for one, except to say it's the 5th Edition FRCG. I never used any actual game mechanics from any of the FRCGs, so the wide breadth of FR material as it stands is open to me for use in my AD&D games.

If one were to appear I would probably pick it up, but it's not really in the must-have-right-now category for me.

I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29635 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  18:25:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel

I voted "no" as I stated in the other thread. I just don't see a real need for one, except to say it's the 5th Edition FRCG. I never used any actual game mechanics from any of the FRCGs, so the wide breadth of FR material as it stands is open to me for use in my AD&D games.

If one were to appear I would probably pick it up, but it's not really in the must-have-right-now category for me.



The campaign books aren't about the mechanics... Even though they contain mechanics, the point of the campaign books are to provide info about and update the setting.

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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

197 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  19:24:59  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel

I voted "no" as I stated in the other thread. I just don't see a real need for one, except to say it's the 5th Edition FRCG. I never used any actual game mechanics from any of the FRCGs, so the wide breadth of FR material as it stands is open to me for use in my AD&D games.

If one were to appear I would probably pick it up, but it's not really in the must-have-right-now category for me.



The campaign books aren't about the mechanics... Even though they contain mechanics, the point of the campaign books are to provide info about and update the setting.



Wooly hit the nail on the head here... A 5e FRCG would nail down the current timeline, geography, notable NPCs & Organizations (possibly giving better info about the functionality of factions). I think those are the kinds of things that are driving people's desire for a new FRCG.

To know, is to know that you know nothing.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3171 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  19:36:11  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
they are also exactly the things WoTC have been trying to avoid since 3e.

they want to be able to put whatever they want whenever and wherever they want without a fan telling them they got it wrong and forcing some errata or other update.

the less detail about the sundering the more they can blame on that. the less timeline info the more they can shoehorn in with later adventures. details will only constrain them and they dont have or want the resources to do lore checking.

i think there will be no 5e campaign guide until WoTC want one, and i dont think they want one at this point in time.

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Bravesteel
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USA
18 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  20:33:12  Show Profile Send Bravesteel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The campaign books aren't about the mechanics... Even though they contain mechanics, the point of the campaign books are to provide info about and update the setting.



Well, I agree and disagree. I think 3E's FRCG had quite a bit of mechanical information contained within it. I would argue the same, but to a much lesser degree, with the 4E FRCG. I'm not saying they were full-on crunch books, far from it, but there was certainly a lot of mechanical content.

quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The campaign books aren't about the mechanics... Even though they contain mechanics, the point of the campaign books are to provide info about and update the setting.



Wooly hit the nail on the head here... A 5e FRCG would nail down the current timeline, geography, notable NPCs & Organizations (possibly giving better info about the functionality of factions). I think those are the kinds of things that are driving people's desire for a new FRCG.



True! I'm not arguing about the reasons people would want a 5e FRCG, but maybe my initial post sounded that way. My only argument, I suppose, would be that (to a point) the whole Factions thing that has developed out of 5E Live Play garners limited interest from me, and seems very attached to 5E. That may very well just be my perception, of course. :)

I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore

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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

197 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  21:14:33  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel
True! I'm not arguing about the reasons people would want a 5e FRCG, but maybe my initial post sounded that way. My only argument, I suppose, would be that (to a point) the whole Factions thing that has developed out of 5E Live Play garners limited interest from me, and seems very attached to 5E. That may very well just be my perception, of course. :)



Agreed. The way factions has played out in the Adventurers' League has underwhelmed me... And I haven't seen it utilized anywhere else, not once. So, the mechanism just seems like another missed opportunity from where I sit.

To know, is to know that you know nothing.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4709 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  21:21:59  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know what? Having seen the 4E CG and noted this Adventurer's League nonsense in 5E, I'm not that keen to see a 5E CG. Unless it was wholly, and I mean wholly, written by Ed and had the page count and font size of the 3E version, it would be a letdown. My 2cp.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Hawkfeather
Seeker

Brazil
49 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  23:00:12  Show Profile  Visit Hawkfeather's Homepage Send Hawkfeather a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wholeheartedly agree with George Krashos.
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Gyor
Senior Scribe

993 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  23:55:43  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel

I voted "no" as I stated in the other thread. I just don't see a real need for one, except to say it's the 5th Edition FRCG. I never used any actual game mechanics from any of the FRCGs, so the wide breadth of FR material as it stands is open to me for use in my AD&D games.

If one were to appear I would probably pick it up, but it's not really in the must-have-right-now category for me.



The campaign books aren't about the mechanics... Even though they contain mechanics, the point of the campaign books are to provide info about and update the setting.



Bingo
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sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1960 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2016 :  23:56:31  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
same here George.... though I voted yes.

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29635 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  00:57:26  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

You know what? Having seen the 4E CG and noted this Adventurer's League nonsense in 5E, I'm not that keen to see a 5E CG. Unless it was wholly, and I mean wholly, written by Ed and had the page count and font size of the 3E version, it would be a letdown. My 2cp.

-- George Krashos



Even a letdown would be better than nothing at all, thinks I.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Dec 2016 01:02:09
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deserk
Learned Scribe

Norway
96 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  01:02:45  Show Profile Send deserk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted yes, but I have strong doubts they'll follow through. I wonder even why WotC even bothers to hold the FR license. They scarcely produce anything with it. They seem so incredibly indifferent and unenthusiastic towards it. I'm guessing now, more than ever, their real interest for FR really boils entirely down to all the money coming from the Drizzt novels. It's a real shame. Forgotten Realms deserves better

Edited by - deserk on 08 Dec 2016 01:06:56
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2555 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  01:55:24  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
I'm guessing now, more than ever, their real interest for FR really boils entirely down to all the money coming from the Drizzt novels.



Idk, given that they seem to be done with the novels for the foreseeable future.

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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
100 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  02:13:30  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They like the brand recognition (Drizzt, Neverwinter, Sword Coast, Waterdeep, etc) but I get the impression they would be happier playing with Nerath/Nentir Vale and the rest of the Points of Light setting where they have more freedom to offer DMs. The (unofficial?) tagline is 'make the realms your own' is it not?

Any campaign guide would have to stress what makes these cities, people, places, etc. unique to the world. That is a tall order for anyone.

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5021 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  02:25:50  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Quite possibly a better question would be "what do you want to see to help update the world". Personally, I would like to see an updated world map (not Faerun, but WORLD).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2856 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  14:16:26  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted no. LOL I have my "OGB" I don't need anything else from WotC. Maybe an adventure or three just for a possible plot hook or encounter. I don't need Wizbro to hold my hand while I play in the Realms. Its rather freeing not having to depend on Chris Perkins(Who MUST Be Stopped!!!!1!1!) and Co for anything Realms related. Kinda wish WotC was never sold to Hasbro now. Hey we got Paizo out of the deal...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2856 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  14:17:21  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Quite possibly a better question would be "what do you want to see to help update the world". Personally, I would like to see an updated world map (not Faerun, but WORLD).


I agree...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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EltonRobb
Seeker

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  16:25:15  Show Profile Send EltonRobb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted yes. It's better to have an updated campaign guide or Campaign Setting than to have none at all. Even though I use the 1e version of the realms running Pathfinder with it. With a loose and fast conversion (that is, all the realms gods).
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  16:47:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I may have accidentally voted 'yes', even though I'm mostly a 'no'. I hit the 'see the results' button without voting, and now its not letting me vote (so I have no idea which way my vote may have went).

Anyhow, I would like to see 'something', but I don't think they should do a normal FRCG/CS. I don't think it would be something at least half the fanbase wants, and I don't think it would be all that useful to the folks running games in 5e (because their current line of AP's is adequate for that). And then we have the fact the FR fanbase is actually rather small, compared to the greater D&D/TT-RPG gamers. So we are talking about them doing a book for a subsection of a subsection of a niche hobby. Not much money in that... not enough for a large corporation, at any rate.

What I think would work is the Gazeteer-like approach, but using a digital format - $1 updates for different regions. In some cases countries (obviously Cormyr), but in others - like The Shaar - we might be able to do a 'regional' thing. Have EACH ONE done by someone who is an 'expert' on that area - like Ed (or Brian Cortijo) for Cormyr, Krash for Impiltur, Eric Boyd for The High Forest (and the Shining Vales), Steven Schend for the Lands of Intrigue (with each being done separately, of course -too much to cover, otherwise). That sort of approach could work, because the 'price tag' is negligible - people might not be willing to shell-out $50 for a FRCG, but most folks would spend $1 for individual, regional 'articles', and wind-up spending MORE in the long run. It would also keep all the relevant information (for a campaign) in one place. Perhaps a wee bit more for the 'thicker' articles (maybe two tiers - 30 & 60 pages, and maybe just have the 'crunchy bits' available as Web-Enhancements). Possibly even charge an additional $99 for a map... maybe.

And now I'm thinking... MAP. I want to see how many 'regions' would actually need to be done. I'll get right on that.

EDIT:
P.S. - And I think we would windup with a MUCH larger 'book' when we are done - there would be NO 'cutting room floor'. There would be no need to trim them down. Quite the contrary, actually. And if someone wanted printed copies, that could be 'on-demand'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Dec 2016 16:52:48
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EltonRobb
Seeker

USA
64 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  16:59:09  Show Profile Send EltonRobb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

What I think would work is the Gazeteer-like approach, but using a digital format - $1 updates for different regions. In some cases countries (obviously Cormyr), but in others - like The Shaar - we might be able to do a 'regional' thing. Have EACH ONE done by someone who is an 'expert' on that area - like Ed (or Brian Cortijo) for Cormyr, Krash for Impiltur, Eric Boyd for The High Forest (and the Shining Vales), Steven Schend for the Lands of Intrigue (with each being done separately, of course -too much to cover, otherwise). That sort of approach could work, because the 'price tag' is negligible - people might not be willing to shell-out $50 for a FRCG, but most folks would spend $1 for individual, regional 'articles', and wind-up spending MORE in the long run. It would also keep all the relevant information (for a campaign) in one place. Perhaps a wee bit more for the 'thicker' articles (maybe two tiers - 30 & 60 pages, and maybe just have the 'crunchy bits' available as Web-Enhancements). Possibly even charge an additional $99 for a map... maybe.



I think this would actually work.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  21:24:05  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had a similar idea for 4e, but with physical splat-books. We actually have far more freedom with a digital format, and can be more 'focused'. I've grouped stuff together more by what I thought would be actual content, rather than just 'geography', as has been done in the past. Some regions would be pretty sparse even with combining them, and others would be overly full (nothing really can done about Cormyr), but I think with the 'lighter' ones, I would prefer to see them get MORE treatment - more than we've had ever before. For example, I could have easily combined Murghôm & Semphar, but I'd rather see more detail, and more focus, and the two really are distinct cultures (although we've never truly seen why).

Others could be split-apart, like Chondath and Chessenta, but I'm just not seeing it - they have a shared history and culture. I wound-up with 53. but it would be fairly simple to tweak-it and get exactly 50 (or get even more, by further splitting stuff - Cormyr as one big book, or split into two smaller ones - 'Cormy proper', and the 'marches'). So basically, this is just a very rough idea, and as I said, more based-upon the amount of material I think each 'zone' would fill in a book. This is also based partially on an idea Eric Boyd and I had for moving forward with the High Forest/Shining Vale projects - we had laid-out several regions for 'future development': With the DM's guild thingie, this may actually see the light of day (and may be why TEGG has contacted me again... one can only hope). I'm picturing a 2 tier approach - 30 pages for smaller regions at 99¢, and a larger, 60+ pg. booklet for $1.99. I 'may' be WAY under-estimating the sizes here - they may {probably} need to double. I know Eric can fill a 30 pg. booklet on Evereska alone.

Gazaeteer-Style concept map.

Map Key:
1. The Frozenfar & Icewind Dale
2. The North
3. The Illuskan Lands
4. Neverwinter Region
5. Silver Marches
6. Waterdeep Environs
7. The High Forest
8. Loudwater Vale
9. The Shining Vale
10. The Moonshaes
11. The Sea of Swords
12. Sunset Vale & The Sword Coast
13. The High Moor (& Serpent Hills)
14. The Broken Lands (Fallen Lands, etc)
15. The Fell Lands (Stonelands, Goblin Marches, Tun Lands, HoLS & Battle of Bones)
16. Cormyr
17. The Dragon Coast (including Ulthmere)
18. Anauroch
19. Sembia (+ Prespur & Scardale)
20. The Dalelands & Cormanthor
21. The Moonsea North
22. The Bloodstone Lands (Vassa & Damara)
23. Impiltur & The Vast
24. The Wild Lands (The Great Dale, Thesk, and Narfell)
25. Rashemen & the Raumvari (would include history of Raumathar)
26. Aglarond (and Altumbel)
27. Thay (& The Priador)
28. Amn
29. Tethyr
30. The Nelanther & The Dragon's Head
31. Calimshan
32. Erlkazar & The Shining Planes
33. The Vilhon Reach (Turmish and Sespech)
34. The Blade Lands (Chondath, Chessenta, Akanul, and the Blade Kingdoms)
35. Unther (& Threskel)
36. Mulhorand (& The Great Salt Marsh)
37. Murghôm
38. The Raurin (would include complete history of Imaskar, including ruins)
39. Semphar
40. The Endless Wastes (& The Great Ice Sea, Yal Tengri)
41. Lantan (would include the Whale Flukes and 'Mother of Mists' islands)
42. Chult
43. The Savage Lands (Mhair Jungles, Samarach, Tashalar, & Lapaliiya)
44. Elsir Vale (includes Channath Vale, Shaareach, Tharsult & The Bandit Wastes.
45. The Lake of Steam (would include The Border Kingdoms)
46. Halruaa (would include the Great Swamp Rethild)
47. The (Eastern) Shaar (includes the Great Rift)
48. Dambrath (would include the forest of Amtar, the Swagdar, & The Gnollwatch Mts.)
49. Luiren (might want to merge The Five Shires here, just to fill-it-out a bit)
50. The Golden Waters (Estagund, Var the Golden, Durpur, Veldorn, & fallen Thommar)
51. The Utter East (includes Ulgarth, Edenvale, Doegan, Konigheim, etc)
52. The Great Glacier & Sossal
53. Nimbral (would include 'The Beacon rocks')

We could just write-up every single country separately, and they'd get more money that way. I already separated some that perhaps shouldn't have been (it would have been easy to do a 'Shining South' treatment of Dambrath & Luiren, for example). But I was considering a LOT of things, including 'interest'. Would someone buy separate books on Turmish or Sespech? I doubt it... but a 'Vilhon Reach' book sounds pretty good. Same goes for Chondath & Chessenta (although we also could have given Chesenta to the Unther book, and had Chondath in the Vilhon book, or fleshed-it-out further and give it its own book). So, like I said, I factored-in many things here, including keeping similar 'flavors' together (or separate, as I did with Luiren and Dambrath).

Larger booklets could even have a small adventure, or better yet, have a related Adventure Path also available for download around the same time. Gazeteer + AP + Map = $3... not too shabby, given the size of the potential customer-base.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Dec 2016 21:35:32
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Alexander Clark
Seeker

19 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  21:31:19  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I'm picturing a 2 tier approach - 30 pages for smaller regions at 99¢


Wouldn't it be much cheaper than current pricing-by-page?

Hi! I haven't played tabletop D&D since 3.5, so I am a "noob" here. Now I am trying Neverwinter MMO.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13081 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  21:48:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have no idea what that pricing (in the DM's Guild) is - I just know that if you want folks to buy all of this, you have to charge very little. We'd be much better-off with 'quantity' - make it so cheap people won't even think about it.

In other words, if people have to stop and think about a purchasing a book about Sespech, they're NOT going to buy a book about Sespech. Other areas, YES, but not the 'less known' regions - and we can use this as an opportunity TO garner interest in those areas. If you want to catcha fish, you have to use the right bait. But if you want to catch LOTS of fish, you have to 'chum the waters'.

Also, in some media, they should advertise it as 'The world of Drizzt'. YES, that probably sticks in most of our craws, but it is what it is - far more (non-geek) people have heard of 'Drizzt' than The Forgotten Realms. We also want to pull-in the 'casual readers' who may get hooked on the world itself.

But maybe you're right - I'm not the 'business guy', I'm just an idea guy. Maybe keep the focus smaller, separate all the countries/regions into smaller pieces, and sell it that way. Maybe just keep a few of the better-known regions (Cormyr, Icewind Dales, Waterdeep, Baldur's gate, etc) as larger, more expensive volumes. Not too expensive - definitely not the same price as the OD&D Gazeteers (which had some physical goodness, like maps, and counters, etc). Maybe $4.99 for a 'better known' area? Then you sell the AP & map separate (you are also making money on the "à la carte" approach).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 08 Dec 2016 21:49:53
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