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Alexander Clark
Seeker

19 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  21:57:13  Show Profile Send Alexander Clark a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I have no idea what that pricing (in the DM's Guild) is


I am sorry, I wasn't comparing to the DM's Guild stuff, I was comparing to the books published by WotC.

For example I just bought Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms for 20 dollars which would make the price about 8 pages-per-dollar if my math is correct. And that's an outdated book too.

Hi! I haven't played tabletop D&D since 3.5, so I am a "noob" here. Now I am trying Neverwinter MMO.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3602 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  22:06:17  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I have no idea what that pricing (in the DM's Guild) is - I just know that if you want folks to buy all of this, you have to charge very little. We'd be much better-off with 'quantity' - make it so cheap people won't even think about it.

In other words, if people have to stop and think about a purchasing a book about Sespech, they're NOT going to buy a book about Sespech. Other areas, YES, but not the 'less known' regions - and we can use this as an opportunity TO garner interest in those areas. If you want to catcha fish, you have to use the right bait. But if you want to catch LOTS of fish, you have to 'chum the waters'.

Also, in some media, they should advertise it as 'The world of Drizzt'. YES, that probably sticks in most of our craws, but it is what it is - far more (non-geek) people have heard of 'Drizzt' than The Forgotten Realms. We also want to pull-in the 'casual readers' who may get hooked on the world itself.

But maybe you're right - I'm not the 'business guy', I'm just an idea guy. Maybe keep the focus smaller, separate all the countries/regions into smaller pieces, and sell it that way. Maybe just keep a few of the better-known regions (Cormyr, Icewind Dales, Waterdeep, Baldur's gate, etc) as larger, more expensive volumes. Not too expensive - definitely not the same price as the OD&D Gazeteers (which had some physical goodness, like maps, and counters, etc). Maybe $4.99 for a 'better known' area? Then you sell the AP & map separate (you are also making money on the "à la carte" approach).



Your idea is exactly what i want to do with the realms. Do a campaign guide that tells you general rules to play in the realms.

Then each country gets a book (that can be updated so its not a static document). Then you can release adventures that update small bits or larger bits of the country depending upon the scope of the adventure.

As im pre spell plague only im doing novels as adventures to update regions ( such as kazgoroth in the moonshae isles or the devil dragon war in cormyr).

It will keep me occupied for a few decades

And there is no reason why you couldnt have a whole book on sespech or chessenta. There are plenty of hooks and history out there for almost every region (except maybe sossal and semphar), it just needs organising amd expanding to the maximum. Not easy but possible

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Edited by - dazzlerdal on 08 Dec 2016 22:12:06
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Bravesteel
Seeker

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  22:27:46  Show Profile Send Bravesteel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This would be a pretty sweet community project , I'd toss my hat in to help start up something like this.

I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2909 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  22:51:51  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would love for Ed to do a "Bandit Kingdom" Gazetteer. One on each!

I actually like this idea Mark...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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EltonRobb
Seeker

USA
66 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  23:00:08  Show Profile Send EltonRobb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I could, but I'm stuck in some other, smaller project. I won't have time to do this even if I wanted to. However, if I could, I have more knowledge about Classical History, so I can probably dust off a book about Chessenta. There is a lot of story potential in the old Empires (Chessenta, Unther, and Mulhorand). But there is some reasons why I won't participate:

* If it's released through the DM's Guild, you all have to be representing Candlekeep. There is a big feeling of "Watch me, Senpai!" with the DM's Guild and the professionals are not at all involved with the DM's Guild. They use the 5th Edition OGL.

* It's going to take a Concerted Effort to do this sort of thing. If you are serious about developing this idea, then the project has to overcome the "Watch me, Senpai!" syndrome over the DM's Guild. I'll wait and watch.

You'll have to put it up on Kickstarter.

Some suggestions:
-- Start with Black and White art first. :)
-- Find someone to coordinate it business wise. This is a good idea for a community project, your going to need some editors, a line developer (a business guy), a lore keeper, and a project coordinator (a business guy again).

I really do think this is an awesome idea. But like I said, I'll wait and watch to see how this turns out and is received. You need to do this professionally. But I'd like to see how the community can get together and take things into their own hands. If the pros from Wizards of the Coast can't do it, the people at Candlekeep can fill the void.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14553 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  23:10:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

And there is no reason why you couldnt have a whole book on sespech or chessenta. There are plenty of hooks and history out there for almost every region (except maybe sossal and semphar), it just needs organising and expanding to the maximum. Not easy but possible

Yes, you could do a 'whole book' on just about everywhere. You can even easily separate the High Moor from the Serpent Hills, but at some point, how 'small' do we really want to get? We start to enter the 'all that information is overwhelming' problem people cried about in 1e/2e/3e.

How about this - a 'quick tour' type of book that fits in with my original premise, - just gives you the basic rundown of a large area. Then we can later 'dip back in' for more focused books. Take my suggested 'Broken Lands' book. After an initilal 'whirlwind tour', folks can do individual Evereska, Fallen lands, Marsh of Chelimber, Lonely Moor, Greycloak Hills, Weathercoat Woods, etc, etc... books.

I just wanted a very basic, 'tour of the Realms' type of approach in lieu of a FRCG. We can actually fully detail each separate piece with AP's (because its still 'just a game' at its heart, and why detail something minutely unless you were going to attach some adventures to it?) It would just be a way of updating the material for each region so folks have a basic understanding of whats going on there in 5e.

For example, suppose Krash did a 4-5 page 'quick & dirty' tour of 4e Impiltur and the Vast. Just giving people a very basic idea of whats there circa 1480 or so. Then he can go back in later - using his initial work as an 'outline' - and do a separate 'Impiltur under a microscope' book. Thats the one that would have an attached AP (done the way Paizo does their Ap's, with LOTS of background material). And as I said, maps could be a separate download (because very handsome and amazingly brilliant cartographers need to eat too).

And all joking aside, the maps could also be done in a 'two stage' process. One as part of a larger, continent-wide map, and then we can do smaller (ie, Impiltur-only) maps which would show more, because of the attached AP's). The layered pdf project I am personally working on could easily be adapted for this broader project, since I was planning an index, which I would love to have help with. We've never really had a 'one-stop' source for a region before - FR lore is spread all over the place (I've even found a tiny bit in the Greyspace book - wrong setting on TWO COUNTS!) It would be glorious to have every single reference to something in just one place.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Dec 2016 03:20:03
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4949 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  02:16:27  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's the way it should have been done. But now never will be. At least not by WotC.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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EltonRobb
Seeker

USA
66 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  03:32:11  Show Profile Send EltonRobb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

That's the way it should have been done. But now never will be. At least not by WotC.

-- George Krashos





I guess the fans have to fill the void.
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  03:34:14  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indeed. I like the vision but I don't know how practical it is as a large scale community project.

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
Artstation Portfolio
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EltonRobb
Seeker

USA
66 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  03:42:51  Show Profile Send EltonRobb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva

Indeed. I like the vision but I don't know how practical it is as a large scale community project.


Well, it can be done. We just need someone with the vision and someone with business sense. I'm skeptical.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14553 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  04:07:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
EDIT2: I seem to have missed a few posts - seems like EltonRobb has said pretty-much a lot of the same things I have (and Dazzlerdal as well). My bad.

quote:
Originally posted by EltonRobb

quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva

Indeed. I like the vision but I don't know how practical it is as a large scale community project.


Well, it can be done. We just need someone with the vision and someone with business sense. I'm skeptical.
Or perhaps an organization that is already (mostly) intimately familiar with The Forgotten Realms, has the creative resources (including many FR designers) at their disposal, and is already involved in such publishing ventures?

You know... like TEGG.

Put some teams together, appoint a 'traffic cop', work on the main areas of interest first, and then start filling in the rest. I would make sure there was at least 6-10 ready to roll-out before initial release (so people don't think they're 'investing' in a dead-end scheme). I know of two regions that are about 70% 'ready to roll-out' right now (he'd just have to update the stuff for 5e). Cover art is a bear, and good luck finding anyone willing to 'work cheap', so I would suggest line art for the covers, or maybe the maps themselves... hmmmm... this is starting to sound eerily familiar..., with bare minimum of interior art as well. Art sells books, but its also the biggest expense up-front. Or recycle old (WotC) art. If it looks like its 'taking off', 2nd editions could be made with better art.

EDIT:
In a 'Volo's guide' style, of course. At least for the primary 'tour' books. AP's (with the finer detail) could simply be omnipotent 3rd person. Not necessarily Volo himself - we have a precedent - the Elminster's Ecologies books were done that way, using 'local guides'. I'd be using Volo's grandaughter, Volarra... or as she is derisively known in low places, 'Volotramp'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Dec 2016 04:27:15
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6218 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  13:37:26  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I think I may have accidentally voted 'yes', even though I'm mostly a 'no'. I hit the 'see the results' button without voting, and now its not letting me vote (so I have no idea which way my vote may have went).

Anyhow, I would like to see 'something', but I don't think they should do a normal FRCG/CS. I don't think it would be something at least half the fanbase wants, and I don't think it would be all that useful to the folks running games in 5e (because their current line of AP's is adequate for that). And then we have the fact the FR fanbase is actually rather small, compared to the greater D&D/TT-RPG gamers. So we are talking about them doing a book for a subsection of a subsection of a niche hobby. Not much money in that... not enough for a large corporation, at any rate.

What I think would work is the Gazeteer-like approach, but using a digital format - $1 updates for different regions. In some cases countries (obviously Cormyr), but in others - like The Shaar - we might be able to do a 'regional' thing. Have EACH ONE done by someone who is an 'expert' on that area - like Ed (or Brian Cortijo) for Cormyr, Krash for Impiltur, Eric Boyd for The High Forest (and the Shining Vales), Steven Schend for the Lands of Intrigue (with each being done separately, of course -too much to cover, otherwise). That sort of approach could work, because the 'price tag' is negligible - people might not be willing to shell-out $50 for a FRCG, but most folks would spend $1 for individual, regional 'articles', and wind-up spending MORE in the long run. It would also keep all the relevant information (for a campaign) in one place. Perhaps a wee bit more for the 'thicker' articles (maybe two tiers - 30 & 60 pages, and maybe just have the 'crunchy bits' available as Web-Enhancements). Possibly even charge an additional $99 for a map... maybe.

And now I'm thinking... MAP. I want to see how many 'regions' would actually need to be done. I'll get right on that.

EDIT:
P.S. - And I think we would windup with a MUCH larger 'book' when we are done - there would be NO 'cutting room floor'. There would be no need to trim them down. Quite the contrary, actually. And if someone wanted printed copies, that could be 'on-demand'.




This is essentially what I said earlier. I foresee them possibly doing this, and then after they've hit the highpoints, maybe making a collective work that's the campaign setting and tries to draw a world narrative.

On the map thing... I'm just literally looking for a confirmed map shape of the various landmasses that exist. Are we back to the scholar's view of Abeir-Toril? Did any lands NOT go back to Abeir (for instance we know that Akanul didn't and possibly parts of Tymanther didn't)? Did any lands shift (like how I was saying it might be neat to shift Laerakond elsewhere and keep it)? Is that huge land mass that a lot of us referred to as Osse still existing? What about Katashaka? Anchorome? What about the islands in the crowded sea south of Zakhara? I mean we were told that for the most part Faerun is back the way it was, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world, and as long as Maztica itself comes back, I don't see a lot of people complaining a whole lot if they modify some of the areas that didn't get any real coverage previously.

oh, and by THEY in the above, I don't necessarily mean WotC. It could be a group of fans. It could be something else entirely (like WotC possibly losing/selling the brand to another 3rd party).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 09 Dec 2016 13:52:58
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6218 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  13:43:17  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I had a similar idea for 4e, but with physical splat-books. We actually have far more freedom with a digital format, and can be more 'focused'. I've grouped stuff together more by what I thought would be actual content, rather than just 'geography', as has been done in the past. Some regions would be pretty sparse even with combining them, and others would be overly full (nothing really can done about Cormyr), but I think with the 'lighter' ones, I would prefer to see them get MORE treatment - more than we've had ever before. For example, I could have easily combined Murghôm & Semphar, but I'd rather see more detail, and more focus, and the two really are distinct cultures (although we've never truly seen why).

Others could be split-apart, like Chondath and Chessenta, but I'm just not seeing it - they have a shared history and culture. I wound-up with 53. but it would be fairly simple to tweak-it and get exactly 50 (or get even more, by further splitting stuff - Cormyr as one big book, or split into two smaller ones - 'Cormy proper', and the 'marches'). So basically, this is just a very rough idea, and as I said, more based-upon the amount of material I think each 'zone' would fill in a book. This is also based partially on an idea Eric Boyd and I had for moving forward with the High Forest/Shining Vale projects - we had laid-out several regions for 'future development': With the DM's guild thingie, this may actually see the light of day (and may be why TEGG has contacted me again... one can only hope). I'm picturing a 2 tier approach - 30 pages for smaller regions at 99¢, and a larger, 60+ pg. booklet for $1.99. I 'may' be WAY under-estimating the sizes here - they may {probably} need to double. I know Eric can fill a 30 pg. booklet on Evereska alone.

Gazaeteer-Style concept map.

Map Key:
1. The Frozenfar & Icewind Dale
2. The North
3. The Illuskan Lands
4. Neverwinter Region
5. Silver Marches
6. Waterdeep Environs
7. The High Forest
8. Loudwater Vale
9. The Shining Vale
10. The Moonshaes
11. The Sea of Swords
12. Sunset Vale & The Sword Coast
13. The High Moor (& Serpent Hills)
14. The Broken Lands (Fallen Lands, etc)
15. The Fell Lands (Stonelands, Goblin Marches, Tun Lands, HoLS & Battle of Bones)
16. Cormyr
17. The Dragon Coast (including Ulthmere)
18. Anauroch
19. Sembia (+ Prespur & Scardale)
20. The Dalelands & Cormanthor
21. The Moonsea North
22. The Bloodstone Lands (Vassa & Damara)
23. Impiltur & The Vast
24. The Wild Lands (The Great Dale, Thesk, and Narfell)
25. Rashemen & the Raumvari (would include history of Raumathar)
26. Aglarond (and Altumbel)
27. Thay (& The Priador)
28. Amn
29. Tethyr
30. The Nelanther & The Dragon's Head
31. Calimshan
32. Erlkazar & The Shining Planes
33. The Vilhon Reach (Turmish and Sespech)
34. The Blade Lands (Chondath, Chessenta, Akanul, and the Blade Kingdoms)
35. Unther (& Threskel)
36. Mulhorand (& The Great Salt Marsh)
37. Murghôm
38. The Raurin (would include complete history of Imaskar, including ruins)
39. Semphar
40. The Endless Wastes (& The Great Ice Sea, Yal Tengri)
41. Lantan (would include the Whale Flukes and 'Mother of Mists' islands)
42. Chult
43. The Savage Lands (Mhair Jungles, Samarach, Tashalar, & Lapaliiya)
44. Elsir Vale (includes Channath Vale, Shaareach, Tharsult & The Bandit Wastes.
45. The Lake of Steam (would include The Border Kingdoms)
46. Halruaa (would include the Great Swamp Rethild)
47. The (Eastern) Shaar (includes the Great Rift)
48. Dambrath (would include the forest of Amtar, the Swagdar, & The Gnollwatch Mts.)
49. Luiren (might want to merge The Five Shires here, just to fill-it-out a bit)
50. The Golden Waters (Estagund, Var the Golden, Durpur, Veldorn, & fallen Thommar)
51. The Utter East (includes Ulgarth, Edenvale, Doegan, Konigheim, etc)
52. The Great Glacier & Sossal
53. Nimbral (would include 'The Beacon rocks')

We could just write-up every single country separately, and they'd get more money that way. I already separated some that perhaps shouldn't have been (it would have been easy to do a 'Shining South' treatment of Dambrath & Luiren, for example). But I was considering a LOT of things, including 'interest'. Would someone buy separate books on Turmish or Sespech? I doubt it... but a 'Vilhon Reach' book sounds pretty good. Same goes for Chondath & Chessenta (although we also could have given Chesenta to the Unther book, and had Chondath in the Vilhon book, or fleshed-it-out further and give it its own book). So, like I said, I factored-in many things here, including keeping similar 'flavors' together (or separate, as I did with Luiren and Dambrath).

Larger booklets could even have a small adventure, or better yet, have a related Adventure Path also available for download around the same time. Gazeteer + AP + Map = $3... not too shabby, given the size of the potential customer-base.




On this, I'll disagree a bit. I'd rather see broader scope but possibly less particulars on the current countries. That way we get a rough idea of the things happening in the regions and it can be seen as intertwined. I don't think we need to get into the nitty gritty on all the countries all over again. Including it with an adventure that visits the 5 or 6 countries involved makes it useful immediately as well to DM's. Later, once the regions are kind of fleshed again, we could have the more specific delvings... or those things could be done through other sorts of books (such as something similar to cloak and dagger or prayers of the faithful or the cult of the dragon, etc...).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14553 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  17:31:35  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Still not getting the shear SIZE of FR, are you? Krynn's main continent could fit in 'The North'. The entirety of the Dark Sun setting could fit in the Raurin Desert. Mystara is roughly the same size, if we count all the regions outside of the main campaign area (main continent, which also includes the Red Steel campaign setting, amongst other things). Same goes for Greyhawk - the Flanaess are roughly the size of Faerûn, but the main campaign region (detailed area) is about 2/3 the size. Nentir Vale - THE 4e setting - could squeeze between the High Forest and the High Moor. And in regards to FR itself, I am only counting Faerûn, not the other 5 settings on Toril.

Despite the presence of 'High Magic', FR is still roughly a 'medieval' setting, and countries are thousands of miles apart. It makes perfect sense that an AP would take place in one, maybe two, countries. About half of all Paizo's (large, detailed) AP's take place in Varisia, which is only about 1½ times the size of Aglarond.

As I said above, I had factored-in several different things into the way I cut-up the map. A few could have been combined for brevity, but I felt they were better-served keeping them separate, for various reasons (for example, although the people of Murghôm & Semphar are racially similar, both their cultures have had very different influences over the centuries, and Murghôm is ruled by dragons now, which is pretty darned nifty). I also was thinking about 'usefulness', and 'desirability' - as I said above, I just don't see someone buying a separate 'Sespech' booklet (unless someone were to make Sespech amazing).

I'm talking about a 4-5 page 'whirlwind tour' of each 'zone'. AP's can cross these zones, and the maps can cover larger (or smaller) areas, or even have multiple maps... but those are the AP's. For this, I was thinking in terms of taking the 3e FRCS book and cutting it up into bite-sized chunks. Some areas warrant more information, some don't. I'm trying to find the 'sweet spot'; for Cormyr, 5 pages wouldn't even give you enough room for one or two sentences about each village. For Sembia, you'd be hard-pressed to find enough info to fill five pages. Thats where the creative part comes in - we'd have to scale-down the info on the really detailed areas (it is only a CG, after all), but we'd have to add some for other areas, to make them seem more interesting (ie, have people stop thinking of Impiltur as "that other Cormyr"). We really don't want to go back to the old way of thinking that some areas are 'better' than others to play in. Thats what got us the endless repetition of splats on some regions, and zero on others.

Also, we want to keep the price-point VERY low. I don't think these really should 'make money' (not 'a killing', anyway). This is the 'bait' (or 'chum' as I said above) - these little, 'read while you are waiting for your dentist appt.' booklets are just to suck people in. Interesting, short, and to-the-point. The money to be made is after a larger fanbase is established, and you can sell decent numbers of 5e Adventure paths. In fact, I have a nifty idea now how to do the maps and covers - my colored maps could be the covers (and YES, a lot of it would get obscured and lost, but thats the idea), and then have a novel-type B&W map as the back cover. I wish I had one finished already, so I could do a mock-up of that. Hmmmm... maybe I can, if I 'cheat'.

If I wasn't so busy on maps right now, I'd whip-up one of these booklets myself. It should be fairly simple - just reference all the older regional info and update it. Let the 3e FRCS be your guide.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1180 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  19:14:01  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Still not getting the shear SIZE of FR, are you? Krynn's main continent could fit in 'The North'. The entirety of the Dark Sun setting could fit in the Raurin Desert. Mystara is roughly the same size, if we count all the regions outside of the main campaign area (main continent, which also includes the Red Steel campaign setting, amongst other things). Same goes for Greyhawk - the Flanaess are roughly the size of Faerûn, but the main campaign region (detailed area) is about 2/3 the size. Nentir Vale - THE 4e setting - could squeeze between the High Forest and the High Moor. And in regards to FR itself, I am only counting Faerûn, not the other 5 settings on Toril.

Despite the presence of 'High Magic', FR is still roughly a 'medieval' setting, and countries are thousands of miles apart. It makes perfect sense that an AP would take place in one, maybe two, countries. About half of all Paizo's (large, detailed) AP's take place in Varisia, which is only about 1½ times the size of Aglarond.

As I said above, I had factored-in several different things into the way I cut-up the map. A few could have been combined for brevity, but I felt they were better-served keeping them separate, for various reasons (for example, although the people of Murghôm & Semphar are racially similar, both their cultures have had very different influences over the centuries, and Murghôm is ruled by dragons now, which is pretty darned nifty). I also was thinking about 'usefulness', and 'desirability' - as I said above, I just don't see someone buying a separate 'Sespech' booklet (unless someone were to make Sespech amazing).

I'm talking about a 4-5 page 'whirlwind tour' of each 'zone'. AP's can cross these zones, and the maps can cover larger (or smaller) areas, or even have multiple maps... but those are the AP's. For this, I was thinking in terms of taking the 3e FRCS book and cutting it up into bite-sized chunks. Some areas warrant more information, some don't. I'm trying to find the 'sweet spot'; for Cormyr, 5 pages wouldn't even give you enough room for one or two sentences about each village. For Sembia, you'd be hard-pressed to find enough info to fill five pages. Thats where the creative part comes in - we'd have to scale-down the info on the really detailed areas (it is only a CG, after all), but we'd have to add some for other areas, to make them seem more interesting (ie, have people stop thinking of Impiltur as "that other Cormyr"). We really don't want to go back to the old way of thinking that some areas are 'better' than others to play in. Thats what got us the endless repetition of splats on some regions, and zero on others.

Also, we want to keep the price-point VERY low. I don't think these really should 'make money' (not 'a killing', anyway). This is the 'bait' (or 'chum' as I said above) - these little, 'read while you are waiting for your dentist appt.' booklets are just to suck people in. Interesting, short, and to-the-point. The money to be made is after a larger fanbase is established, and you can sell decent numbers of 5e Adventure paths. In fact, I have a nifty idea now how to do the maps and covers - my colored maps could be the covers (and YES, a lot of it would get obscured and lost, but thats the idea), and then have a novel-type B&W map as the back cover. I wish I had one finished already, so I could do a mock-up of that. Hmmmm... maybe I can, if I 'cheat'.

If I wasn't so busy on maps right now, I'd whip-up one of these booklets myself. It should be fairly simple - just reference all the older regional info and update it. Let the 3e FRCS be your guide.



Semphar is actually ruled by Dragons as well, or it was in 4e.

But yeah FR is huge. For Contients you have a Supercontient with Faerun, Kara Tur, and Zakahara on it
You have Katashaka, Osse, Archome, Maztica, some others. You have a parrell world of Abeir. Within its Solar System is planets like Glyth. And each of these is reflected in the Feywild, Shadowfell, Border Elemental Planes, and the Border Ethereal.

Then their are the various outer planes within which are layers and with in that are dominions of Gods and all it has a finite material and immaterial purely spirit infinite part, Elemental Chaos, Demiplanes, Energy Planes which are at the farthest reaches of the Planes. Then their are far realms which are possibly laired like Onions.

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Markustay
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Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  19:41:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know Murghôm still is in 5e, but I thought Semphar no longer was (which I'd prefer, given that there is no need to make them the same).

Did a fast mock-up of a Cover for a theoretical Cormyr 'tour guide' for 5e. I used an old 2e map, but you get the idea - I would use one of my (or some other artist's) real ones.

Cormyr FRCG Booklet cover


And you know you are a geek/fantasy nerd/FR fan when you can type all the 'ô' and 'û' characters without looking them up.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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dazzlerdal
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  19:50:36  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like everything about it except the edition/era.

I love the author name as well.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  19:58:00  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


And you know you are a geek/fantasy nerd/FR fan when you can type all the 'ô' and 'û' characters without looking them up.



My keyboard on my home desktop is set to US-International so I can easily type those characters, but for my work machines, I have the keyboard combos for û, ñ, and é memorized.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

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Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  20:21:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
EDIT:Another reason why I divided things up the way I did was for the history; for example, the Illuskan lands. That would not only cover Luskan and their 'sea holdings', but also provide a history of the Illuskan (Northmen) people themselves. That way, in a Moonshaes booklet, we could just reference the Illuskan one for info on the Northmen themselves.

And now I am thinking we may need books on non-human races as well...

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I like everything about it except the edition/era.

I love the author name as well.
Its meant to 'appeal to all eras'. Hence the 'old school' FR logo and the 5e D&D emblem.

I figure at least the first two pages have to be history, and cover everything (in brief) from 1355 to the current date. Fortunately, there isn't much we have to put in for 4e, so its just a synopsis of 1e/2e/3e and then the 5e update. As I've said earlier, Cormyr would have to be 10-16 pages, just because of all the settlements and the history.

And I am now thinking on EltonRobb's '8 pgs. per dollar'. Perhaps the 99¢ booklets could be around eight pages, and the $1.99 ones could be around 16. Also, it would be possible to further sub-divide some of the better known areas, as I have already done with The North. Maybe divide Cormyr into TWO separate books - the settled lands, and the 'frontier'. That way, we could just keep a single pricing (and they'd save a penny!)

Also, people aren't going to be expecting much - if any - art at those page counts. Just a front and back cover (and as you can see by what I did there, thats a simple fix as well).

I purposely put a fake name on it, because people always find the stuff I post through searches, and I don't want anyone thinking thats a real book and asking about it (for example, if I put my own name on that, I would have gotten PMs about it for the next century).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Dec 2016 20:29:51
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
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Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  20:45:56  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But then you also flood the market with the smaller projects - an effect your already fighting to be noticed amongst the background of. People will only find these booklets by specific link or by searching directly for one. Best way to sell a product on the DMsGuild is through keeping it on the front page for as long as possible - and if not, you want something easier to find which means fewer links to different projects. Either way, the long term goal works better with a single product.

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Bravesteel
Seeker

USA
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Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  21:24:12  Show Profile Send Bravesteel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva

But then you also flood the market with the smaller projects - an effect your already fighting to be noticed amongst the background of. People will only find these booklets by specific link or by searching directly for one. Best way to sell a product on the DMsGuild is through keeping it on the front page for as long as possible - and if not, you want something easier to find which means fewer links to different projects. Either way, the long term goal works better with a single product.



On the other hand there is something to be said for the "series effect" where sheer volume of production brings a large amount of notice, as long as the quality is maintained.

I think this is a great idea, we could set up an oversight board and publish the minutes in the forums. In my mind any profit should go into the upkeep of Candlekeep itself.


I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore


Edited by - Bravesteel on 09 Dec 2016 21:30:07
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EltonRobb
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Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  22:39:31  Show Profile Send EltonRobb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel
On the other hand there is something to be said for the "series effect" where sheer volume of production brings a large amount of notice, as long as the quality is maintained.

I think this is a great idea, we could set up an oversight board and publish the minutes in the forums. In my mind any profit should go into the upkeep of Candlekeep itself.



Only thing worthwhile for the money is that it works for the upkeep.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And I am now thinking on EltonRobb's '8 pgs. per dollar'. Perhaps the 99¢ booklets could be around eight pages, and the $1.99 ones could be around 16. Also, it would be possible to further sub-divide some of the better known areas, as I have already done with The North. Maybe divide Cormyr into TWO separate books - the settled lands, and the 'frontier'. That way, we could just keep a single pricing (and they'd save a penny!)


I'm sure I didn't think of that. I'm sure it was Alexander Clark that brought our attention to eight (8) pages per dollar. I'm only saying that it could work as smaller books around Alexander Clark's page count.

Edited by - EltonRobb on 09 Dec 2016 22:40:08
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14553 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2016 :  18:29:31  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva

But then you also flood the market with the smaller projects - an effect your already fighting to be noticed amongst the background of. People will only find these booklets by specific link or by searching directly for one. Best way to sell a product on the DMsGuild is through keeping it on the front page for as long as possible - and if not, you want something easier to find which means fewer links to different projects. Either way, the long term goal works better with a single product.
Not sure how the DM's Guild algorithms work, but its a fairly simple fix. If we could put some sort of broad-spectrum label on all of them, or - better yet - have TEGG involved, so that their banner gets slapped on it, which would give the whole thing far more clout

I was never thinking in terms of 'homebrew', or even a 'community project', I was always thinking in terms of WotC themselves (or a licensee) doing it, and it all being official. Not sure how that would work - I am completely unfamiliar with the rules of the DM's Guild. I may just prefer to avoid that path altogether, if it 'lessens' the acceptability of the work. This all started out as an alternative to a FRCG book, so I never meant for it to be a 'fan work'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2016 :  19:42:23  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My recommendation for a broad spectrum label would be that of the in-realm organization of "the Heralds", especially if the goal is to record Realms history.

As far as getting TEGG involved - that would be fun. You'd have to run the ideas by more people but it also means you can try bartering with the artists for work-trades regarding the other settings. The traditional ROI is pretty low with the DMsGuild, but I can tell you I personally would love to illustrate FR especially if that meant x, y or z would be taken care of or whatever the case may be. In theory, it would open up more options to get around the low ROI.

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
Artstation Portfolio

Edited by - Adhriva on 10 Dec 2016 20:00:15
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2909 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2016 :  20:52:11  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or keep it in house as the Candlekeep Compendium...

The unwashed masses was why WotC nuked the Realms in the first place.




"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 10 Dec 2016 20:53:19
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