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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 01:09:54
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I've heard something about Acererak is in the Jungles of Chult. Please God don't let FR become a dumping ground.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 01:18:39
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| What else is left? Is there a 5e core? Any other setting? Oh, Ravenloft. Yeah. That would actually be a better place for it. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 01:22:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
What else is left? Is there a 5e core? Any other setting? Oh, Ravenloft. Yeah. That would actually be a better place for it.
5e core=FR |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 01:40:32
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| Than, yes. I'm afraid so. FR = dumping ground. Every time the devs struggle for a new idea, they'll just recycle something and plop it in some far corner of the Realms without even bothering to fill it out further. It's the future, man. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 01:43:48
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| But hey, for 50 bucks you will get some new art. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 02:42:13
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As much as I hate FR becoming the 'dumping ground', I stand by the notion that GH canon IS FR canon. Graz'zt is in the Realms canon - he even kidnapped Waukeen. Iuz is the son Graz'zt and Iggwilv, and Iuz is THE BBG of the Greyhawk setting (next to Vecna). Furthermore, Orcus is one of Graz'zt's chief rivals, and Orcus is also very much BOTH FR & GH canon. Its all connected. I'd further maintain that FR & GH canon are actually just subsets of Planescape/Great Wheel canon.
And speaking of Vecna, Vecna was also a BBG in Ravenloft, and we've had several crossovers with RL over the years. I wouldn't even mind seeing him make an appearance (he is a demigod, after all, and gods aren't really setting-specific - some choose to be, but its not a hard & fast rule). And none of the non-human gods are setting specific (along with all the fiends, celestials, etc).
Acererak is bit harder to swallow than an outsider (they have a logical reason to be 'multi-planer'), but whatever - its "just a game" now. The setting itself is whatever WE want it to be, and we don't have to accept any of the new game material as canon if we don't want to. The fans are the ones who actually decide things, in the end. Doesn't really matter what someone who works for the company says, if we aren't buying anything they're selling.
And now that you guys have me thinking about this new thing, I have to make sure the Laerakond/Maztica Hybrid map still aligns with my Misbegotten Realms world layout. I can have the map cut-off just before the point where Maztica starts to merge-into Hepmonaland. 
Thus, I can not only have both Maztica and Returned Abeir, but I can also still have Greyhawk across the see, right where I want it. What make choices, when you can have it all? I'm a greedy git. 
EDIT: And if The Flanaess/Oerik (GH) are "just across the pond" from Faerűn, then Acererak most certainly makes sense. After all, do we really know whats there in 5e? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Nov 2016 02:45:18 |
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Kessalin
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 08:46:17
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| Out of curiosity, is there any mention of Acererak being in Chult anywhere other than in an R. A. Salvatore novel? I don't keep up with game books past 3.5e, so I don't know if it's mentioned anywhere other than in a novel. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 13:34:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kessalin
Out of curiosity, is there any mention of Acererak being in Chult anywhere other than in an R. A. Salvatore novel? I don't keep up with game books past 3.5e, so I don't know if it's mentioned anywhere other than in a novel.
Acererak has NEVER been associated with the Realms what so ever. What this looks to me is that instead of giving people other settings, they are just going to take iconic NPCs from other worlds and just plop them in FR without any sort of legitimate reason. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 13:50:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Kessalin
Out of curiosity, is there any mention of Acererak being in Chult anywhere other than in an R. A. Salvatore novel? I don't keep up with game books past 3.5e, so I don't know if it's mentioned anywhere other than in a novel.
It's also in the recent "Dungeonology" book, IIRC (which is not a game supplement). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2016 : 21:38:45
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I'm actually not bothered by Acererak being found in Realmslore. Few people have issue with Mordenkainen and Bigby being found in Realmslore.
And Acererak is a demi-lich, one whose powers and ambitions have been inflated by immortal Orcus himself. So he's a half-disembodied "soul" in the nether between worlds, no longer anchored to any mortal shell, driven by incomprehensibly arcane and Orcus-centric concerns. So it's not at all impossible for Acererak to travel to other worlds and planes, indeed it almost seems impossible for him to show no interest at all in the Realms (which from his point of view is that place which frequently pollutes Greyhawk's lore). And he's always up to the same old tricks - trying to build another temple and faith dedicated to Orcus - working carefully, patiently, secretly, in some remote and unseen corner of the world which seems unlikely to attract much attention or interference.
It's okay for Asmodeus and Mephistopheles to grasp at the Realms through their agents, yet it's not okay for Orcus to do the same through his mightiest demi-unmortal servant? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Nov 2016 21:47:34 |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 00:03:15
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Speaking of Mordenkainen, he popped up recently in Death Masks (although part of me wants to believe it's actually Khelben the Younger in disguise). He's also recently appeared in the Critical Role stream apparently (though I don't watch it, and I don't think it's FR). So maybe they're building up some Greyhawk buzz...
I'm expecting the links (gates, portals, etc) between Greyhawk and the Realms to be made apparent if this Acecerak in Chult adventure does end up happening. They almost certainly have always existed, as El and Mordenkainen have been chatting since at least "The Wizards Three" in 1992! |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
Edited by - KanzenAU on 20 Nov 2016 00:05:16 |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 00:40:47
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quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU
Speaking of Mordenkainen, he popped up recently in Death Masks (although part of me wants to believe it's actually Khelben the Younger in disguise).
Nope, that's a Curse of Strahd tie-in. In this adventure he becomes feebleminded when a spell against Strahd backfires due to the laters connection to the land as the resident Darklord.
Same with the cloud giants whose short appearance seems to server no purpose whatsoever. They are just in to say "yeah folks, Storm King's Thunder storyline is currently ongoing" |
Edited by - Mirtek on 20 Nov 2016 00:42:01 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 00:55:25
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| FR has been a dumping ground for as long as I can remember. Basically everything AND the kitchen sink is in the Realms somewhere. Asian culture, middle eastern culture, Russian-slovic culture, Irish cultures, central-American/Aztec culture, Egyptian culture, space faring culture, European middle ages, you name it. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 04:42:03
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| Why would Acererak be on the prime material plane at all when he has ALWAYS been on a demiplane. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 05:23:41
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So maybe, since he never truly was 'in Greyhawk', someone just opened-up another doorway to his demiplane, this time from FR?
Wasn't he also featured in in one of the core 'evils' books? As a vestige, or some-such?
EDIT: And while looking for that reference, I came me across the fact that he was also listed in the Immortals book, so that makes him Mystara/OD&D canon, which establishes him as multi-spheric. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Nov 2016 05:36:35 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 10:51:07
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In real terms, Acererak turning up in the Realms is creative laziness, pure and simple. The Realms has immense scope for the introduction of many new big bads as long as you are prepared to do the hard yards and bed it into the FR firmament. WotC hasn't done hard FR yards since the advent of 4E.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 20 Nov 2016 17:28:00 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 16:39:23
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Which is just disappointing on so many levels given how many people do love the Realms and have put in some serious work creating, and yet we get things like this instead of something by Ed, GK, Boyd, etc. This is just my tinfoil hat theory, but it sure seems like someone over the years (I've always assumed Perkins or Mearls) just wants all of the old guard, who know what they're doing, to just go the heck away.
Of course, given the country's progress to the form of Idiocracy, I guess it is possible that simplistic is the new fun thing kids like and I'm just an old washed-up mid 30's something that wants things to stay like they were when I was a teenager. Ahem, and get off my lawn and all that.
Given the state of the Realms, I find places like Candlekeep even more important. And while I do want more of the good stuff, I certainly have enough Realms material to keep myself puttering around until the 2nd coming of Greenwood and gang. That's the hope at least. ;) |
Edited by - Eilserus on 20 Nov 2016 16:40:26 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 17:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Which is just disappointing on so many levels given how many people do love the Realms and have put in some serious work creating, and yet we get things like this instead of something by Ed, GK, Boyd, etc. This is just my tinfoil hat theory, but it sure seems like someone over the years (I've always assumed Perkins or Mearls) just wants all of the old guard, who know what they're doing, to just go the heck away.
Of course, given the country's progress to the form of Idiocracy, I guess it is possible that simplistic is the new fun thing kids like and I'm just an old washed-up mid 30's something that wants things to stay like they were when I was a teenager. Ahem, and get off my lawn and all that.
Given the state of the Realms, I find places like Candlekeep even more important. And while I do want more of the good stuff, I certainly have enough Realms material to keep myself puttering around until the 2nd coming of Greenwood and gang. That's the hope at least. ;)
I blame Perkins 100%. He has been given the freedom to do as he pleases and apparently he can bullshit his way into convincing the people at Wizard's that what he is doing is great.
It's kind of like all these X-factor shows. They flood the market with mediocre music that people now a days love. It's cheap and catchy but never really lasts long. It's a way to bring in some quick money. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 19:05:47
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| Politics is apparently a big thing at Wizards. A few months ago I was reading Glassdoor reviews of employees. Kind of an interesting view from the outside. But, I'm flying off on one of my tangents again. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 20:04:53
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Some people get by on talent, while others get by on... soiled knees.
As in, 'they go looking at old material laying around on the bottom shelves of the office'.
What'd you think I meant?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Nov 2016 20:42:57 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 21:46:18
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Advancement based on a mix of seniority and popularity, not objective productivity or merit. Deadweights float upward by delegating their work onto underlings, they can then claim full credit for successes or assign full blame for failures onto scapegoats. Too many sophisticated managerial buzzwords and internal meetings and new exciting blueprints for today and tomorrow, but too little actual product going out the door and too little of that actually producing any revenues. It looks like a place filled with active mismanagement, constant interference from (nominal) superiors who lack the talent or temperament needed for real management. Seen bosses like that before - the only tool in their managerial toolbox is a hammer, and it's actually surprising what you can fix with a hammer, but most of the time it's just the wrong tool for the job and will just break things that already work.
Prognosis for WotC looks unpromising, lol. Worthy staff will constantly turnover (with many ending up working for a competing company, or even forming their own, lol). "Progress" looks dismal on a media-and-design-based company which can't even properly maintain a website. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Nov 2016 21:52:58 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 22:13:49
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'Bullshi**ers' get far in politics, government jobs, and corporate. You don't have to do any real work, just tell the right people the kinds of stuff they want to hear.
Fortunately, the people they are telling those things to are doing the same, right up the ladder, and sooner or later they will need to throw someone under the bus, and then we have one less 'useless cog' in the works.
It all ties into 'idiocracy' - the dross rises to the top now. What happened in Irag with Saddam is a classic example of this - he systematically 'got rid of' anyone who was competent, in fear of his own position. If a general won too many battles, he had them killed. He also had them killed if they lost. A system completely designed to make everyone NOT aspire to get noticed, or be anyone 'important'. Right up until the Americans were about to attack his palace his 'advisors' were lying to him, telling him they were winning the war. Thats what happens when you surround yourself with 'Yes men' - you end up swinging from the rafters.
Funny thing about the universe... it's self-correcting.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2016 : 22:27:30
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I wouldn't say the universe is "self-correcting". It's "self-consistent".
A company like WotC can attain great fortune, fold into bankruptcy, or simply continue to languish behind the curve indefinitely. The last option offers an optimal compromise between bloated job securities and sheer laziness, so it seems the most likely outcome unless Hasbro deems WotC (and it's various IPs) is a "brand" worth cashing in. I don't think WotC will ever want (or need) to change unless Hasbro decides it's time to overhaul, reorganize, and take out the trash.
Perhaps in future products we'll start seeing some former-Wizbro game designers appear in the Realms as NPCs? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Nov 2016 22:28:52 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 14:17:32
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| Considering that 5e is one of the best selling, if not THE best selling RPG right now I'm fairly certain that they [WotC] will continue to do as they please in regards to their settings and what goes in them. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 16:19:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Considering that 5e is one of the best selling, if not THE best selling RPG right now I'm fairly certain that they [WotC] will continue to do as they please in regards to their settings and what goes in them.
Well you are the best selling when you are essentially in a one person race. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 19:17:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Considering that 5e is one of the best selling, if not THE best selling RPG right now I'm fairly certain that they [WotC] will continue to do as they please in regards to their settings and what goes in them.
Well you are the best selling when you are essentially in a one person race.
So we're not counting Paizo anymore? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 20:26:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Considering that 5e is one of the best selling, if not THE best selling RPG right now I'm fairly certain that they [WotC] will continue to do as they please in regards to their settings and what goes in them.
Well you are the best selling when you are essentially in a one person race.
So we're not counting Paizo anymore?
Indeed. And Paizo was actually outselling WotC, before 5E came out (I don't know how the two compare now). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 22:00:18
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I don't know how it stands NOW, but when I wen to Gencon in 2012, WotC had a booth (where they strangely were not selling anything) I believe they did have a few official games planned in the general room somewhere, but I never saw any of that (in four days).
Then you go up to the second floor... Paizo had a FLOOR. Nearly the whole floor, with all those partition-wall thingies taken out, for their insanely huge Pathfinder gaming room. You had to be on a waiting list to play, and it ran the full four days. They ALSO had a booth on the first floor... SELLING stuff... and much bigger then WotC's (albeit WotC did have a couple of nice statues of Drizzt & Lolth).
That was pretty telling. I spent four days talking-up the Forgotten Realms to every young person who'd let me (I took over a Blizzard table... they just looked at me and then looked away... LOL) and did my best to 'sell them' on it. Most of them never even heard of the Realms, or said things like, "Isn't that where Drizzit comes from?" Granted, 5e has been released since then (They did the Sundering announcement at that Con... and four years later I'm STILL trying to figure out what it was all about... outside the hype), but I would be pretty surprised if WotC managed to turn all that around again. Pleasantly surprised, I suppose - I would hate to see D&D just die-off.
And 4e isn't an easy thing to bounce-back from. Kudos for them if they've done so.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2016 : 22:55:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
but I would be pretty surprised if WotC managed to turn all that around again. Pleasantly surprised, I suppose - I would hate to see D&D just die-off.
And 4e isn't an easy thing to bounce-back from. Kudos for them if they've done so.
Well, then you must have lived under a rock those last 4 years -> at least as far as following RPG sales is concerned. No offense intended
Beats me how or why, but 5e is obviously the best thing since sliced bread -> at least as far as RPG are concerned
It not only claimed the top spot as best selling RPG in no time and holds it ever since, it also outsold each previous edition (except 1e I think) in PHB sales (individually, not all together).
Even the switch that you now have to buy the modules to run in organized play instead of getting them for free didn't hurt it at all. And I was sure that would kill OP, guess I was very wrong
The PHB is already in its 7th or 8th print run. |
Edited by - Mirtek on 21 Nov 2016 22:57:40 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2016 : 01:28:03
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| I'm the biggest 4e fanboi I know and even I admit that 5e has done a pretty excellent job of bringing a LOT of what best from 3e, 4e, and TSR-era D&D. I know I've started getting old 2e adventures a.d converting them to 5e and it's ridiculously easy. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2016 : 01:30:09
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Can't comment on sales for WotC vs Paizo. I confess I haven't gone to any kind of Con in a long, long time lol. I do see tons of Wizbro and Paizo books sitting in the same store shelves they've occupied for years, sharing space with dozens or hundreds of competing products. The shiny Newest-Edition tomes are always all there, but they make a smaller segment than all of the (obviously very unpopular) tarnished Older-Edition leftovers which have accumulated over the years. And as often as not some RPG geeks, old and new, are present to peruse these materials, old and new, and something seems to be sold every few hours yet Bucknard's Ever-Full Inventory magically replenishes the store shelves every morning. Only vague answers to this question are ever offered by the otherwise-garrulous salesfolk employed at these fine establishments. Hasbro, Wizbro, and WotC are all "industry leaders" in terms of paranoid evasiveness about ever disclosing their revenues, sales, or marketing figures - their example has been followed by Paizo and others.
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[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 22 Nov 2016 01:31:46 |
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So what's this about Acererak being in FR?
