Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Products
 Forgotten Realms Novels
 Hero [Spoilers]
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 9

sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  15:22:44  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where could Zak have gone after he died? The only thing that makes sense to me is if Eilistraee somehow noticed his nature, either directly through some godly means that we can only speculate about, or being clued in to him by what we know are Eilistraeens hiding in Menzoberranzan. Someone with Zak's reputation is bound to be known even to the lowest houses, and even with Eilistraeens laying low, they'd have a good information network, so maybe it's conceivable that they knew about him and made Eilistraee know to steal him away before Lolth could?

Even if that made sense though, wouldn't Bob's refusal to acknowledge Eilistraee make that possibility nonexistent? Furthermore, if Eilistraee or some other goodly or at least non-evil diety had Zak, how could Lolth return him?

If it wasn't Lolth who returned Zak, who could've been responsible for his full and complete resurrection? Including the complete reconstitution of his body? I'm not clear on the way that D&D mechanics regarding resurrection is in the current edition, but I remember it being the case around the time when Zak dissolved his body in acid that it was a move that rendered him impossible to resurrect, since all living matter of him was completely disintegrated. I guess his soul could've crossed over from whichever Astral Plane like that halfing that followed Gromph over from the Green Fields had, but that's clearly not what happened here. Is it the case that in the more recent editions of D&D that a high enough cleric or priest can reconstitute a body from nothing? Yvonnel's certainly a very high level priest. I suppose, baring Lolth granting her another powerful spell, the likes of which is more powerful than even the one that she used to bring Drizzt back from when Malcanchet pretty much killed him, wouldn't it have to be divine intervention to bring Zak back to life?
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  15:27:19  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When a cleric resurrects someone, they don't need to be a follower of the cleric's deity. We could assume that, if Lolth wanted to bring back Zak, and Zak was with a non-evil deity, then that deity let it happen because they were ok with it for whatever reason. Maybe they even protected Zak from whatever plan Lolth had in mind.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  15:34:43  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Where could Zak have gone after he died? The only thing that makes sense to me is if Eilistraee somehow noticed his nature, either directly through some godly means that we can only speculate about, or being clued in to him by what we know are Eilistraeens hiding in Menzoberranzan. Someone with Zak's reputation is bound to be known even to the lowest houses, and even with Eilistraeens laying low, they'd have a good information network, so maybe it's conceivable that they knew about him and made Eilistraee know to steal him away before Lolth could?

Even if that made sense though, wouldn't Bob's refusal to acknowledge Eilistraee make that possibility nonexistent? Furthermore, if Eilistraee or some other goodly or at least non-evil diety had Zak, how could Lolth return him?


That Zak felt Eilistraee somehow is entirely possible, beacuse of this:

"Eilistraee sings her call to all dark elves—from the highest matron mother to the lowest male slave—sending them dreams or visions, showing them a different, better life (especially when they are close to the surface). Lolth is powerless to stop these visions, as too much interference from two goddesses could easily bring a mortal's mind to insanity. The drow definitely come to know about and "feel" the Dark Dancer at some point in their lives, but many of them either don't understand said dreams or emotions or choose to ignore, disbelieve, or reject them. Even then, while not many refuse Lolth to cleave to Eilistraee, many secretly yearn for the goddess and all that she wishes for them. In fact, it is not unusual for them to choose to spare a stricken worshiper of Eilistraee if they think that no priestess of Lolth is watching, or to fail to pass on to other drow something they might have seen of their activities, or to stop to watch a dance of Eilistraee worshipers rather than disrupting it.[17]"

But yeah, I don't think that RAS had Eilistraee in mind when he said that Zak was in a good place.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Oct 2016 15:36:17
Go to Top of Page

hairogumasan
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  15:38:15  Show Profile Send hairogumasan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig

I have my say on this book later. For now, i think Mods should clear this scroll. There is so much ranting and negativity on it right now. It really sadens me.



Switching from fulltime lurker status to registered forum member status to agree with this. ;-P

A forum for intelligent discussion, such as what I've known Candlekeep to be, should be tolerant, if not accepting, of different views, especially on literature. There shouldn't be a precedent in which it's all right for someone to be attacked for simply feeling different about a subject matter.

I'll admit that I didn't like Hero much at all either. I thought it a rather poor ending to a series that's had some quite good elements. Candlekeep is one of the few places where I lurk in which I could nod in satisfaction that people can handle dissonant voices from the, well, overly amorous Drizzt following. ;-P It saddens me greatly to see the trend of someone daring to speak out against Salvatore's work getting attacked viciously and unfairly carried to this peaceful place.

Edited by - hairogumasan on 27 Oct 2016 15:41:46
Go to Top of Page

sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  16:02:11  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, thanks for the insight regarding resurrection (and many other things :D) Irennan!

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
That Zak felt Eilistraee somehow is entirely possible, beacuse of this:

"Eilistraee sings her call to all dark elves—from the highest matron mother to the lowest male slave—sending them dreams or visions, showing them a different, better life (especially when they are close to the surface). Lolth is powerless to stop these visions, as too much interference from two goddesses could easily bring a mortal's mind to insanity. The drow definitely come to know about and "feel" the Dark Dancer at some point in their lives, but many of them either don't understand said dreams or emotions or choose to ignore, disbelieve, or reject them. Even then, while not many refuse Lolth to cleave to Eilistraee, many secretly yearn for the goddess and all that she wishes for them. In fact, it is not unusual for them to choose to spare a stricken worshiper of Eilistraee if they think that no priestess of Lolth is watching, or to fail to pass on to other drow something they might have seen of their activities, or to stop to watch a dance of Eilistraee worshipers rather than disrupting it.[17]"



This touches on something that I've been trying to wrap my head around. See, in the real world, we're all one species, so it's fair to say that our psychologies are, in a very general sense, similar, as it's shaped by evolution and/or social factors. At the very least, humans are pack animals because it's a survival tactic that suited us in the early days, and to some degree, we're programmed such that altruism feels good, as it helps us survive. There are outliers of course, but in general, for humanity, what's good versus what's evil (or at least not good) is something that we all inherently psychologically recognize and internalize.

But can the same be said about all the intelligent races of the Forgotten Realms, or any fantasy setting for that matter? For instance, the whole thing with the goblinoids has been retconned in 5th ed that they are inherently evil, much like humans of the real world, as a race, are inherently good. Drow we've been led to believe to be inherently evil as well, which was why Drizzt was such a special snowflake in the first place. So then, why would Eilistraee's song of "a better life" even seem that way to the drow? It's an alternative lifestyle that is the opposite of what the drow know and supposedly love. I can see the oppressed males turning to it more because they're sick of Lolth and the matriarchy's oppressive BS, but what about those powerful priestesses that are living the Lolthite dream?

Basically, I'm wondering, why would that work at all? Aren't drow supposed to be different inherently psychologically than us? Aren't all naturally evil races not the same as us, completely alien even, such that we shouldn't really hold them to the same standard?
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  16:10:46  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Because the drow are not "genetically" evil, and have never been in the Realms (correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read that even in GH, when they were first introduced, drow commoners were painted in a more neutral light, even as possible allies for the PCs). Given their history, it doesn't make sense. If you take a look at Eilistraee's followers mostly being made up of "tainted" drow, it doesn't make sense. That was something that WotC tried to force in 4e (because apparently Drizzt wasn't special enough in their eyes) but it was reverted in 5e. Besides, why would drow be inherently evil, if tieflings, who have much more fiendish blood, aren't (in 5e it is even said that such blood has 0 influence over their alignment)? In the Realms, not even orcs and goblinoids are irredeemably evil (orcs in Thesk prove that, Many Arrows maintaining peace for more than the entire average lifespan of an orc also proves that they orcs can maintain a civil coexistence with other races. That goblin that Drizzt met also proves it. Mielikki's words are just her take on the race--maybe even only Catti's interpretation of that--IMO, not absolute truth).

It's why Eilistraee intends redemption as embracing a choice, not forcing stuff on the drow, or removing a pseudo original sin.

EDIT: the words about Yvonnel that you posted a while ago point to that as well. They reinforce Eilistraee's point.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Oct 2016 16:33:24
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1798 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  16:13:58  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zak's soul could have gone a number of places. My guess would be Eilistraee, but since Bob doesn't really acknowledge her, I think another god is more liekly. He was no Lolthite, to be sure, and even if he didn't worship another god (or he did it in secret), a god who aligns with his ideology could have easily taken him in. Mielikki is a possibility, even though Drizzt didn't know of her at the tiem, she surely knew of him, being a deity and all.

I am happy Zak has returned, but I am curious about the who/what/when/where/how lol.

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  17:44:25  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But why Mielikki, other than her later association with Drizzt? Do gods and goddesses have the ability to see the future? If Drizzt "meeting" her was pre-destined, then sure, I think it'd make sense for her having taken Zak. However, the tenets of Mielikki have nothing to do with drow or anyone who's not a ranger or druid or maybe some other nature-associated thing. I suppose Bob could go that route as Mielikki's the only other diety of prominence in his books, so if the whole world was only his corner of the Realms, then sure, I could see Zak's soul as having been stolen away by Mielikki before Lolth could. Otherwise, in the grand Realmsian scheme, I just don't see why it would be her. :( I mean the other members of the elven pantheon would make more sense, and even with some of them it'd be a stretch.

Edited by - sno4wy on 27 Oct 2016 17:45:01
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  17:48:07  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think that many deities have that power, some more than others perhaps. Eilistraee seems to have a rather prominent version of it: in Evermeet it is said that she receives glimpses of the future in the form of visions. She chose to wander Toril among the dark elves because she had foreseen that they would have needed her in the future, for example.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Oct 2016 17:48:32
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  17:49:47  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Perhaps deities see time in a whole different manner from mortals. Maybe they see many different future possibilities at the same time. Although, the way WOtC protrays them, you'd say that they have blinders on :/

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Oct 2016 17:50:11
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  17:52:39  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But, returning to your original point, I don't even know why Mielikki would see Drizzt as a special follower. I don't recall him doing anything particularly meaningful towards the cause of people living in harmony with nature, and things like that. Has Drizzt ever been much of a "tree-hugger"?

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
Go to Top of Page

DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  18:07:44  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Deities have never been written as being able to see into the future in the novels, not even as omniscient, actually. They have, like the Greek pantheon, always been limited players that could be fooled, even if they had the ability to be in many places at once and hear all their followers prayers and follow their paths to a certain extent. it was the only way writing them made sense in a universe that's tied to its playable equivalent, I guess.

As for Drizzt being a follower of Mielikki, maybe being a big player while remaining so was enough. After all, she wasn't exactly a major godess. How many readers know Eldath from the top of their heads who've just followed some of the novel lines? I mean, the audience here isn't especially represantative, so even if lots of *you* may shout"Here, me!" - well - I think you get my point... he's good news because he's news.

And here's a possible solution: By the time he learnt Zak's soul was "in a good place", Drizzt was already a bigger player and had been following Mielikki for quite a while and had been blessed with the sighting of a unicorn relatively early in the books, so it meant something as to his special relationship with the godess. (Sigh, the old times. Now he carries one around, and it's no big deal.)

So, Zak may have wandered the Fugue Plane for quite some time, since Loth had no right to his soul since he defied her. Mielikki could have had pity and picked him up much much later in the books.


Edited by - DandelionClock on 27 Oct 2016 18:09:27
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  18:13:30  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If mortals have spells that allow them to contact deities to receive answers about the future, or spells that flat out make them see the future, then I guess deities can too. Canonically, I think we've only had direct info about Savras (ofc, he's the god of divinations), and Eilistraee having those glimpses of future. But maybe there's more and I'm missing it.

But yeah, in novels they wear blinders.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Oct 2016 18:15:37
Go to Top of Page

DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  18:22:15  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, forget it, the Wall of the Faithless was put back up, I have no idea why I saved it on my mental harddrive as taken down. Probably because I dislike the idea of it.
Go to Top of Page

DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  18:25:17  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Let's say it happens now and again that they grant or have visions of the future... I guess mostly plot-convenient future-vision.
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  18:28:21  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock
had been blessed with the sighting of a unicorn relatively early in the books, so it meant something as to his special relationship with the godess. (Sigh, the old times. Now he carries one around, and it's no big deal.)



Sure, but I was more wondering if an in-world explanation for that was given. If a goddess takes interest in a mortal, it's usually because that mortal has the potential to further their cause, or for a very specific reason (see Mystra and her chosen). That's unless Mielikki simply liked Drizzt.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Oct 2016 18:29:47
Go to Top of Page

sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  18:42:52  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Sure, but I was more wondering if an in-world explanation for that was given. If a goddess takes interest in a mortal, it's usually because that mortal has the potential to further their cause, or for a very specific reason (see Mystra and her chosen). That's unless Mielikki simply liked Drizzt.



This is my entire struggle with Bob's stuff, there's a great deal of lack of in-world explanations for things. If his books were entirely his setting, then ok, that would remove a bunch of the inconsistencies and only leave the ones that are inconsistent within themselves.

I feel like FR fans can work to come up with viable and believable explanations for all the things that Bob doesn't explain, but to me personally, that exercise always feels more than a little futile. Like, what's the point? I think I want to do it because Bob's books are FR canon and I want there not to be these gaping illogical holes of inconsistency, but I feel like we're futilely trying to tape together a bunch of bandaids and use that to cover up these huge voids. :

On a subject opposite that of the gods, namely, the demon lords, what are the extent of their powers? When Yvonnel used a spriggan disguised as Graz'zt to scare away Malcanchet, how viable is that, in actuality? Yvonnel is a very powerful priestess, but Malcanchet is a demon lord (or "princess", as she's called in the book). Don't creatures of that power level "see" with more than just their visuals? Shouldn't she have been able to sense the true nature of that Graz'zt illusion? I mean, shouldn't it even have been something that Kane sensed (and he seemed to at least a little, in any case)? Which begs the question, if it's something Kane could sense, even being the ascended being that he is, shouldn't Malcanchet be able to as well?
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  18:47:31  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They usually have things like True Sight that makes illusions hardly viable against them. Some of them even have perma-true sight. But an illusion that manages to scare a demon lord and to win the fight seems very anticlimatic to me :/

Especially because they should be very clever. Which leads to this: did Graz'zt's presence make any sense in that situation? Was he involved somehow in the matter? Was it believable?

If so, then maybe Malcanthet didn't use her true sight and believed it. But if Graz'zt was pulled out of nowhere, then I have no clue.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Oct 2016 18:50:34
Go to Top of Page

sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  19:16:32  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

They usually have things like True Sight that makes illusions hardly viable against them. Some of them even have perma-true sight. But an illusion that manages to scare a demon lord and to win the fight seems very anticlimatic to me :/

Especially because they should be very clever. Which leads to this: did Graz'zt's presence make any sense in that situation? Was he involved somehow in the matter? Was it believable?

If so, then maybe Malcanthet didn't use her true sight and believed it. But if Graz'zt was pulled out of nowhere, then I have no clue.



Yvonnel, who orchestrated the illusion, revealed the fake Graz'zt to Malcanchet. Malcanchet had no idea who Yvonnel was though, until Yvonnel introduced herself as the one who also orchestrated the defeat of Demogorgon. Is it conceivable that Malcanchet knows exactly how Demogorgon was defeated in Menzoberranzan, down to the very details? It isn't like he could've been like, "Hey babe, I'm back in the Abyss now, but just so you know, an upstart young Matron Mother got together with the illithid hivemind and some renegade to defeat me with a psionic trick". It isn't mentioned, only that Malcanchet was threatened by the presence of Graz'zt prowling through the Underdark.

She took up Yvonnel's story pretty quickly, but come to think of it, I don't understand why Graz'zt would've been all the way in the Bloodstone Lands when he was last seen in the Underdark near the Gauntlgrym area. Malcanchet asked Yvonnel if the drow desired a war against her, and Yvonnel replied to the effect of that they'd rather have a war against Malcanchet than against Graz'zt, and that was when "Graz'zt" was revealed. Malcanchet turned tail and ran, right back to the Abyss, yet, at that.
Go to Top of Page

sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  19:19:52  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I feel like, it might've been a clever ruse, but it's a difficult one to accept. Then again, I'm not clear about the exact dynamics between Malcanchet and Graz'zt, nor of passive demon powers (such as perma-true sight). I also don't know the exact level of loathing that demons have for the Abyss, or rather, the level of desire for and relish of them being on the Prime Material Plane. Malcanchet certainly ran back into the Abyss quickly enough, so that makes me wonder: is she *that* terrified of Graz'zt? So much so that she wouldn't try truesight, or at least some other sort of way to "measure" him, think about negotiations, or flee to a different part of Toril but on the Prime? Does what she did make sense?
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1798 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2016 :  22:28:36  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, I finished the book. I actually liked it for the most part, though it felt a bit rushed, like he was trying to cram a lot into the last volume. I have some issues, but I give it 4 stars. I feel it is a good ending to a long series.


Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2016 :  01:11:51  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

I feel like, it might've been a clever ruse, but it's a difficult one to accept. Then again, I'm not clear about the exact dynamics between Malcanchet and Graz'zt, nor of passive demon powers (such as perma-true sight). I also don't know the exact level of loathing that demons have for the Abyss, or rather, the level of desire for and relish of them being on the Prime Material Plane. Malcanchet certainly ran back into the Abyss quickly enough, so that makes me wonder: is she *that* terrified of Graz'zt? So much so that she wouldn't try truesight, or at least some other sort of way to "measure" him, think about negotiations, or flee to a different part of Toril but on the Prime? Does what she did make sense?



Malcanthet and Graz'zt are decidedly enemies. I think that it's a nice alternative to defeat such a creature (at least they didn't use magic and other tricks to power up Drizzt and turn him into the uber juggernaut of doom to 1 shot Malcanthet), but it would have felt better if they had used something to empower that illusion. Mostly because a demon lord is a really smart entity, and Malcanthet is supposed to be really good at manipulating and deceiving, so she should be good at recognizing a ruse.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 28 Oct 2016 01:13:02
Go to Top of Page

sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
274 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2016 :  01:58:21  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Returning to the discussion of drow not being genetically evil and the mention that tieflings now necessarily being evil even though they carry "evil blood", would it follow then that half-orcs shouldn't be anymore likened to their orcish heritage than tieflings should be to their devilish ones? I ask, because I thought it very odd that Palishchuck was used as an example as to why not all orcs are evil. I feel like's as faulty of a parallel to draw as it is to use any sort of half-race to assess the qualities of their parent race.
Go to Top of Page

Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2607 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2016 :  02:07:59  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree that using a half orc as a basis to claim that not all orcs are X isn't correct. But we do have examples of groups of orcs being able to act civilized in the Realms.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 28 Oct 2016 02:08:22
Go to Top of Page

Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe

USA
216 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2016 :  03:22:29  Show Profile  Visit Drizztsmanchild's Homepage  Send Drizztsmanchild a Yahoo! Message Send Drizztsmanchild a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

I feel like, it might've been a clever ruse, but it's a difficult one to accept. Then again, I'm not clear about the exact dynamics between Malcanchet and Graz'zt, nor of passive demon powers (such as perma-true sight). I also don't know the exact level of loathing that demons have for the Abyss, or rather, the level of desire for and relish of them being on the Prime Material Plane. Malcanchet certainly ran back into the Abyss quickly enough, so that makes me wonder: is she *that* terrified of Graz'zt? So much so that she wouldn't try truesight, or at least some other sort of way to "measure" him, think about negotiations, or flee to a different part of Toril but on the Prime? Does what she did make sense?



Malcanthet and Graz'zt are decidedly enemies. I think that it's a nice alternative to defeat such a creature (at least they didn't use magic and other tricks to power up Drizzt and turn him into the uber juggernaut of doom to 1 shot Malcanthet), but it would have felt better if they had used something to empower that illusion. Mostly because a demon lord is a really smart entity, and Malcanthet is supposed to be really good at manipulating and deceiving, so she should be good at recognizing a ruse.


Do you think that maybe since Malcanthet knows of the drow and how devious and powerful they are,topped with the fact that she is mortal enemies with Gra'zt that maybe she did take it at face value? It would be different if it was say a human wizard using the Spriggin for the same purpose. Just curious
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 9 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000