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TBeholder
Great Reader
2390 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Oct 2016 : 19:33:52
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, I was just wondering if the Ee'aar (winged elves of Mystara) and Aearee had some linkage. Seems I wasn't the only one.
Of the winged sharp-eared folk, we have:
"Classic" Avariel: the ones with dual culture thing; use glassteel a lot. Religion: the Winged Mother all the way. Areal: relatively widespread type; present on Faerun mostly in Snow Eagles aerie, possibly migrants on other continents.
Avariel in hiding: lost lots of knowledge and live much like wood elves, retained at least bladesong, but apparently no glassteel. Religion: unknown. Areal: unknown, on Faerun - introduced in The Year of Rogue Dragons.
Al karak elam: (name was used in some Dragon article before Avariel took the later shape, IIRC, then merged back). Live much like wood elves, except they share nest-towns with giant eagles and other raptors, and have traces of dual society (hunters / artisans) - they are fine with this. Religion: Remnis (god of giant eagles), but thanks to planewalking some (on Beastland community) worship Aedrie Faenya now. Areal: the described tribe lives on Beastland, Brux (twilight layer). Possibly more.
Ee'aar: known to be created from the wingless elves, use glassteel, up to making elven chainmail of it. Less reclusive than all of the above. Religion: the local common elven pantheon. Areal: Mystara. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 06:25:38
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@Dazzerdal - This is what I used to love so much about this place - the synergy, where one idea leads into another. 
I had never thought of the 'washed away' aspect of flooding the tunnels, just more of a 'drowning the rats' kind of thing. So here's a thought (you inspired) - what if the solution the Imaskari came up with WAS a gate? Or rather, the Sarrukh's solution?
The Sarrukh can't defeat the Phaerimm (they ARE nigh-unstoppable), so they build a mega-portal that leads to the underdark beneath the old Raurin Basin (future site of Imaskar and later, another desert). They build this portal at one end of all the series of passages that wind through the Anauroch underdark - and then they divert the course of that sea, and literally 'flush' the phaerimm down the drain (out the portal, which they built to be 'one way').
They arrive in the Raurin, and for whatever reason, become trapped there as well (perhaps they were 'magically drained', and had no access to magic, so went into a sort-of hibernation). Then fast forward about 20K years and the Mujhari settled in that region, and discover 'ancient magics', which leads to the rise of the Imaskari. Now, I had always gone with Rip Van Wormer's wonderful theory about the Imaskari and Sigil, and said the proto-Imaskar found an ancient temple to Aoskar in the Raurin. But what if they instead (or also) found the mega-portal the Sarrukh used? Or, at least, some evidence of it (the temple on the surface?) There were Sarrukh in that area as well (around the Lake of Salt), so perhaps those were originally there as 'guardians' for the far side of the gate? 20K years later and those Sarrukh are long gone, and the Imaskar don't trip the alarms, and wind-up accidentally freeing the Phaerimm (which may have happened over time, as they started using powerful magics, re-awakening the sleeping Phaerimm).
Then some interdimensional being(s), like the Fey (or whats left of them in the Taan) show up and warn the Imaskari - maybe thats what they were giving them. Maybe it was instructions on how to deal with the problem. Maybe it involved Pandorym (something perhaps even worse than the Phaerimm) - they may have used that primordial/elder evil to drive the Phaerimm back through the Gate (after fixing it to go the other way), and dumped them all back into the Anauroch region (which was also fertile at that time), right back on top of the sleeping Sarrukh. Then along comes the people of Seventon, and when they start their magical rise to become the Netherese, the Phaerimm are once-again reactivated (maybe that portal is special, like the bloodforges - it somehow drains all the magic of anything that passes through, leaving them weak/in stasis). That all works.
I like the idea of portal that really only works on powerful magic-users, because it needs to drain them in order to power itself for the translocation. It would be a nifty (dirty) trick to pull on someone like Elminster, or a PC. 
Or, it could be the Phaerimm are just like pilot fish, drawn to strong magic... which I think was the original premise anyway. But then why didn't they show-up at any of the other highly magical empires, like those of the elves, or Calimshan at its height, or even Narfel & Raumathar... or Thay, for that matter? Why haven't the Phaerimm ever bothered Thay? Or Halruaa? 
This is why I'm leaning toward a 'they were drained' stasis type of explanation. Who knows? Maybe after the Godwar (against Imaskar), there were some Phaerimm in the area, and thats how the Raurin and Quoya deserts came about? Only the Plains of Purple Dust were caused by the Godwar itself.
And if thats the case, maybe there are some Phaerimm under Calimshan as well. Perhaps the Phaerimm were drawn to the power of the Calimemnon(sp?) Crystal? Its the closest thing to one of those 'primal' power sources that became so popular post-3e. They are drawn to power sources of magic, and once there, they begin to suck all the 'life' (mana/magical energy) out of everything around, creating deserts, in mush the same way they had defilers in Dark Sun. Could even be Phaerimm ARE from Athas. Now there a thought - they do fit that places' weirdness (and then there's my theory that Athas is really the southern hemisphere of Abeir... but now I'm reaching again).
EDIT: And now I just thought of something else - this whole 'drawn like moths to a flame' thing really works as well. Maybe THAT is why the Thalud dragged every magic item they could find and put it all into one great big pile under Anauroch? Maybe that was the massive power-source the Phaerimm were drawn to, and didn't want to leave? (Calimemnon Crystal, primordials trapped in stasis, mythals, mythalars, etc - all just giant 'mana engines' {Raw elemental power} for Phaerimm to feed off of.) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Oct 2016 06:50:18 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 10:39:47
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Well im still more of a fan of keeping imaskar and netheril as separate as possible but thats probably just me.
One thing i have been musing over is why the phaerimm went to istossefifil and imaskar. For me they live outside the prime dimensiom (like the sharn but the phaerimm are less free to travel between and use constructed portals).
George penned the phaerimm as ancient enemies of the sarrukh that are addicted to the magic of the nether scrolls.
Others have penned the phaerimm as an end stage of transformation through magic.
And others have made the phaerimm require magic to survive.
So what if the phaerimm were sarrukh. The precursors and splinter of the baetith that transformed themselves into the first phaerimm.
They make a home for themselves away from other sarrukh (who cannot believe there is a more perfect form than sarrukh). This home is an entirely new plane as big as toril itself, and is powered by an artefact of limitless magic.
The sarrukh steal this artefact and transform it into the nether scrolls.
The phaerimms home begins to shrink. They are forced to steal magic to keep their home alive.
The phaerimm are mad. Cue a war of destruction that nearly annihilates both races. The sarrukh win by submerging the portal the phaerimm used to get to toril and cut them off in a dying plane with dwindling resources.
Jergal takes one lot of nether scrolls to imaskar. The imaskari plumb its secrets, and when they get to learning about portals and extra dimensional spaces they stumble upon the almost vanished home of the pharrimm, even abducting one and bringing him home.
He escapes makes a new portal and cue another war (although this one is more subtle and waged with disease and insurrection from the shadows).
The raurin desert could be caused by a survivor state of imaskar battling a few phaerimm that didnt return homr when the netherese accidentally reopened the portal in anauroch.
Just an idea of course that merges as much of the lore as i can think of.
Ive never read of fey contributing to the nether scrolls. I consider them more to be teachers of ritual magic. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 12:21:38
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I like the idea of getting rid of Phaerim by sending them somewhere else (and it happening multiple times as no better solution was found).
My phaerim are batrachi creation to battle fey originaly (Fae'rim) and later used/waked by sarrukh and again by netheril. I had a problem with imaskari encounter with them but this solution seems fine and even explains the desert in imaskari space... |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 19:18:34
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The major schools of magic are
Nether Scrolls based
Shadovar Shadow Magic (possibly a Shadowfell influenced branch of the Nether Scrolls school.
Batrachi who are the most likely source for Imaskari magic
Mulan- Mulan Gods, Southern Magic
Calishan- Elementals (especially Genies)
Narfellian- Imaskari and Mulhorand at first, but mostly Infernal/Abyssal by the end
Warlocks- Mostly Planar, but Undying Pacts might have regional variants.
Elves- The LeShay and other Fey.
Divine Magic- They're God, may have other influences, such as Southern Magic
Thayan- Branch of Southern Magic, less Divine compatable.
Jamdathan Psionics: Jamdath
Sorceror: Innate with Regional influences
Bards: varied, with influences from every other school.
Dwarf Magic: Dwarf Gods
Chultan Magic: Chultans
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 21:11:23
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I'd say you have too many divisions - for example, I'd say that both "warlocks" and "Thayan" could easily be lumped into Narfellian.
Also, Psionics are NOT magic, even though they seem a lot like it. Literally every source about them I've ever read emphasized this point. Basically, they do not use the Weave at all.
"Sorcerer" magic is the same as any other magic-user, they just have a different way of learning the spells and casting them. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 21:27:37
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Thats a good breakdown.
I just feel that the 'further back' one goes (in time), the more interconnected everything becomes. I feel like there was one form of proto-magic (Eldritch?) that splintered-off into all the different schools/disciplines we have today. I was never really a fan of the 'parallel evolution' theories. Thus, a 'tree' might work better than a list.
@Dazzerdal - you say you aren't a fan of the Netherese and Imaskari 'interacting' (which I never say they did - they just interacted with the same things themselves), and then you have a set of Nether Scrolls go down to Imaskar? I MUCH prefer to keep the Imaskar with the Fey (or on their own), and have the Nehtherese owe their rise to the sarrukh (and indirectly, the other two Creatori). I truly like to keep them separate - we already have Imaskar being the ancestor of several other 'magical empires'. I would also like to keep Calimshan as a 3rd, (nearly) completely separate set of 'traditions'. That would give us three branching-off points in Faerūn-proper.
Even though my own Netherese Archmage - Enrev Seluj - was a Calimshan/Netherese mixed blood (his father was a Calishite sorcerer who went to Netehril to study, and became an archmage himself). But thats 100% homebrew (pertaining to some K-T material I worked on, believe it or not).
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I like the idea of getting rid of Phaerim by sending them somewhere else (and it happening multiple times as no better solution was found).
My phaerim are batrachi creation to battle fey originaly (Fae'rim) and later used/waked by sarrukh and again by netheril. I had a problem with imaskari encounter with them but this solution seems fine and even explains the desert in imaskari space...
I prefer the Phaerimm as being an aberration - something from the Far Realms - and more 'naturally' occurring. Basically, the universe's form of 'magical cancer'. Too much magic in a specific area, and the 'cancer' grows. The Sharn, on the other hand, are the universe's 'antibodies'. I didn't really care for Steven Schend's take on them in Blackstaff (otherwise, a great novel).
I do really like that either the Sarrukh, or the fey, 'weaponized' them against the other. That works on a lot of levels. Whereas the other three worked together (at least, for a time), the Fey seem to keep their distance from the others (and nurtured humanity - the last, if not least, of the creatori).
In my homebrew lore, I have it where GOD (Greatest Over-Deity) has a contest to see who can create the 'perfect race' - a group of mortals that will eventually supplant them. The Ordials took up the challenge, and the four main elemental lords each created their own -
Kossuth - Sarrukh (identifying dinos with volcanoes - its stretch, I know)
Istishia - Batrachi (thats an easy one)
Akadi - Aearee (another easy one)
Grumbar - Fey ('of the earth' - more of a 'nature thing')
Unknown (Gaia?) - Humans ('life', or in medieval magical lore, the '5th element', a combination of the other 4.)
Humans - the slowest to grow - eventually 'win' (the contest may be still going on). They are the 'inheritors of the universe', the 'Race of Destiny'.
I spin it that the Fey knew they were 'tied' with the other three, but saw something more in humanity, and helped them, for whatever reason (they ARE mysterious, after all). Thus, the Fey and Mankind are closely linked/bonded. Maybe its like when you play Risk (or similar games) - you know YOU can't win, but you CAN decide who will.
And once again, all purely homebrew - part of my over-reaching, 'Theory of Everything'. Someday I may try to write that all down again.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Oct 2016 21:28:28 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 23:16:20
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For psionics I have a single origin: batrachi. We can see a clear pattern in that - aboleths, mind flyers, dopplegangers and duergars. Jhaamdath was exactly above the same ilithid city that abducted duergars...coincidence?
BTW phaerim looks like a enlarged leech that swims through air (with one closed eye). |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2016 : 23:27:52
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Ed's psionics were still not magic - and did not tap into the Weave. It was a whole 'nother ball of wax.
I personally think they are too similar to make it worth the effort to put psionics into play.
As for the whole Netheril/Imaskar discussion, I for one think they are undoubtedly linked. However, in my Realms things were reversed. Those arcanists who eventually learned to travel through time made trips to Imaskar - which eventually creates a chicken and the egg sort of feedback loop of who time-traveled to where/when first. Where did the missing Nether Scrolls go? Imaskar of course... And on and on and on - literally any question can then tie the two together in infinite chases.
In the end I tie all the big time mages of all the campaign worlds together into one, who created all the chronomancy artifacts/spells. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2016 : 07:02:08
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As a DM, 'psionics as magic' works for me. its just easier.
As a player and fantasy/scify fan, not so much. I prefer them be separate things. However, there should be a 'synergy' between the two, which Ed has alluded to in several works (not to mention Elminster himself).
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Phaerimm in imaskar and netheril happens. Nether scrolls in both as well.
Imaskar had Nether scrolls in canon? I don't seem to recall that from anywhere. 
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
For psionics I have a single origin: batrachi. We can see a clear pattern in that - aboleths, mind flyers, dopplegangers and duergars. Jhaamdath was exactly above the same ilithid city that abducted duergars...coincidence?
I've much of the same notion. Perhaps the Batrachi-written portions of the Nether Scrolls pertained to that?
Its funny, I've never been a fan of aberrations in D&D (I prefer 'classical' monsters), and I'm not big on Cthulhu lore either (nor the 'Far Realms'), and yet, I stole the Batrachi (or something very much like them) for my homebrew world, and just about everything important to the setting stems from 'antideluvian horrors'. I just don't know how that even happened, considering its not my taste at all, but it just sort of grew organically from a simple concept I had - Morphic Blood.
I guess if you want an underlying level of 'creepiness' in your setting, you have to blame a lot of stuff on some ancient ebil race that's long forgotten. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Oct 2016 18:20:37 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2016 : 14:16:37
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BTW is there any notion about Netheril meeting Imaskari? There was enough time when both empires were standing and either of them should have no problem with distance. Only question is if they knew about each other.
About Nether scrolls - I still believe that they were purely sarrukh creation. There is only info about use of knowledges of other races and no clear indication about their cooperation imho. Why would those most advanced civilisations help each other in arms race because that is what magic stands for in fantasy... Also why it would be named skins of world serpent if aocraa/fey/batrachi had hand in it? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2016 : 18:32:46
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There was an entry in the GHotR where the Imaskari (probably an out-lying region) spotted a flying city "in the distance". Thats as close to contact as they came. That was one of the many entries that were dropped from the book for space reasons.
I ran with that for my homebrew lore on Enrev Seluj, Half-Calishite Archmage extraordinaire - it was his city that was spotted, en route to the eastern realms (Kara-Tur). That (non-canon) city was over K-T when the Sundering of Webs (Netherfall?) ocurred, and wound-up underwater just off the coast of K-T. It was my (FR) version of an 'Eastern Atlantis' (Mu).
EDIT: I also had some other, non-related homebrew lore regarding Halaster (Hilather) - that he was actually 'amongst them' for a time, and was the one responsible for the founding of the Sargauth Enclave, which he later moved to post-Netherfall. The fact that he was able to move about freely (and may have even been one of the famous archmages) without the Terraseer knowing, or even suspecting anything, demonstrates his level of power even thousands of years ago. Hilather, on the other hand, knew there was something 'not quite right' about the Terraseer. All homebrew, of course.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
You got me there, i just automatically consider anything by george, ed, eric, steven, to be canon by default whether published or not.
As do I...
Its just that I had never read that article. I am correcting that accordingly. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Oct 2016 18:40:06 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2016 : 20:13:52
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If I were ever to write it up for the guild (or whatever), I would change the name (probably just shift a couple of letters around).
Basically, the guy used a Helm of Two Minds to be able to create his enclave, and then shear a second piece off the bottom, creating a flat disk. The first (flat) piece he headed out toward K-T, while he himself was on the second (conical) piece. When Mysryl fell (Karsus' Folly), his mind could no longer handle the 'split'. The mountaintop shot into space (and eventually became the first Dwarven SJ Citadel). The flat piece was going to Krash into Shou-Lung, but the 'Giants in Grey' intervened, and managed to guide it to the coast (so it wouldn't harm anyone in K-T), and then let it sink beneath the waves. Some of the people on it survived, though, and became Sea-Kin. Seluj himself fell like a fiery comet somewhere in the Yehimals. The mountain he used, BTW, was one of the Yehimals - the flat mountain top he created by stealing its 'peak' later became The Dock - a Spelljamming port.
So the name for the archmage came from the fact that I named the now subsea city the 'Nautilus Enclave'. The name caused all the lore to grow out of that.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Oct 2016 20:16:17 |
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Pedigree of Magic, from Creator Races on
