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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1670 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2018 :  09:02:54  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I truly wish game designers would understand the RW a little better - my life would be so much easier. I just ran into a problem on a city map I am working on. The city supposedly is a major ship-building port... and yet has NO 'dry dock' facilities. Do game designers think ships get built in the water? Or do they think some shipwright is building them in his little shop (and I HAVE seen 'little shops' for shipbuilders!)?

Ship-in-a-bottle shop?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Its actually the second time that's happened [...]
I think thats the true mark of fame - when a rumor can start on the internet that you are dead.

Just that you need some sort of a sign, like "I ATE'NT DEAD".

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2018 :  21:02:53  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am the Walrus... Goo goo gajoob.

Its funny that you mention the ship-in-a-bottle thing, because something else reminded me of those tiny animals (Minimals) that are on that island (Bulta), and also there was a mage who was trying to figure out how to minimize animals for long caravan hauls, and then re-growth them on the other end (for ease-of-transport - they'd save a fortune on feed, and it would be so easy to get fresh meat and produce to market that way). I have to wonder why more mages haven't considered all the virtues of 'miniaturization'.

And the reason why I thought of that was Sleyvas' fault. I was thinking one night (a few days ago) about how I shouldn't post any more maps, because no matter what I post, Sleyvas will try to stick a Tharch in it. I even considered posting an X-ray of my colon just to see if he'd put one in there, and that got me thinking about how small an area I could possibly 'map' just to thwart him. I thought about an island only 1' round, not even enough room for one person to stand on, and then I thought, "Naw... he'll just shrink everyone..." . And that's how I started thinking about little people, and little animals, etc - ways to fit a settlement into a place it shouldn't go (and then Rich Bryers posted something about 'tiny men' on his FB page, so it all coalesced into some weird musings on my part).

And now you know the strange places my brain drifts off to when I am half-asleep and its 3AM.


*P.S. - I went back to my doctor. Turns out that 'dark spot' on my X-ray WAS a Tharch! He gave me something to drink for it, and now I've been pooping Red Wizards all week!

(I've been dying to use that since I thought of it the other night... couldn't resist)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2018 01:31:30
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7246 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  13:15:56  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I am the Walrus... Goo goo gajoob.

Its funny that you mention the ship-in-a-bottle thing, because something else reminded me of those tiny animals (Minimals) that are on that island (Bulta), and also there was a mage who was trying to figure out how to minimize animals for long caravan hauls, and then re-growth them on the other end (for ease-of-transport - they'd save a fortune on feed, and it would be so easy to get fresh meat and produce to market that way). I have to wonder why more mages haven't considered all the virtues of 'miniaturization'.

And the reason why I thought of that was Sleyvas' fault. I was thinking one night (a few days ago) about how I shouldn't post any more maps, because no matter what I post, Sleyvas will try to stick a Tharch in it. I even considered posting an X-ray of my colon just to see if he'd put one in there, and that got me thinking about how small an area I could possibly 'map' just to thwart him. I thought about an island only 1' round, not even enough room for one person to stand on, and then I thought, "Naw... he'll just shrink everyone..." . And that's how I started thinking about little people, and little animals, etc - ways to fit a settlement into a place it shouldn't go (and then Rich Bryers posted something about 'tiny men' on his FB page, so it all coalesced into some weird musings on my part).

And now you know the strange places my brain drifts off to when I am half-asleep and its 3AM.


*P.S. - I went back to my doctor. Turns out that 'dark spot' on my X-ray WAS a Tharch! He gave me something to drink for it, and now I've been pooping Red Wizards all week!

(I've been dying to use that since I thought of it the other night... couldn't resist)



You didn't know I'd developed the "summon tharch" spell now did you? You'll want to go get yourself further checked out, because you are in fact a nyama-nummo, and they were extracting things from you internally.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
106 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  06:24:47  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Markustay,

I've been very curious to know. Do you make any kind of city maps, or just primarily regional Maps?

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  07:27:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Almost exclusively regional maps.
I have done a couple of city maps, but I find them too tedious and its like pulling teeth trying to finish one.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
106 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  11:26:36  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Almost exclusively regional maps.
I have done a couple of city maps, but I find them too tedious and its like pulling teeth trying to finish one.



Hahaha, cool. I was just curious to know.
I agree about being tedious, I drew a few city maps and it took me quite a while.


What are you working on now?

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  21:15:42  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
About a dozen different FR maps (which includes my highly detailed main project, and we'll probably see the Unapproachable East 1st, which I hadn't meant to do), at least two FR citymaps (yeah, I know what I said...), one plane (the Feywild), a genealogy tree connecting ALL the gods together (that will never, EVER get finished), at least three different writing projects for the DMsGuild (which also may never see the light of day), a couple of buildings, two settlements (one canon, the other completely homebrew), and if I am not mistaken I should be seeing a contract for a regional map for a new setting appearing in my Email in the next few days.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
106 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  10:11:34  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Awesome, I can't wait to see your work.

I'm actually really excited to see the feywild map. 1, because I don't think there is a definitive feywild map out there. 2, there might be a chance my players will go to the feywild

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  10:27:22  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its going to be very non-detailed - it is a PLANE, after all. One that approximates all the traversable land in the universe! I actually plan to inset tiny world maps of differnt worlds as small island clusters (I saw this done with Larry Niven's Ringworld, and thought it was AWESOME).

I was looking at the official (4e) Feywild map by Mike Schley, and while its lovely, it only shows a very tiny area (comparatively). In fact, I am probably going to have trouble even placing that (it would just be a 'dot' on a Planer map). So I don't know how useful it could possibly be for running a game - I just need it as a reference for some of the history-lore I am working on for Katashaka (showing how the 'Giant Lands' relate to the rest of the Feywild).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jan 2018 10:29:48
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
106 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2018 :  15:30:02  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OoOOOOooh, I'm excited.

Have you ever thought about turning in your work as a resume to WOTC. You'd be a great addition

Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2018 :  20:46:25  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you, NO.

I don't work well with others. You can ask at least a dozen people around here about that. I have my own methodology and speed (or lack there of), and its not conducive to a good working relationship. The only kind of job I'd ever except is "guy in charge of everything", and A) who'd hire someone to be THEIR boss? And B) that would be stupid if they did, because I'd want to micromanage every last detail and do it all myself. In other words, I'd be exactly like Gary Gygax. And while we may applaud his creation and vision, and his epic talent, in the end he became an anchor holding D&D back (because I think his personality was very akin to my own).

There is nothing wrong with being 'imperfect'. We all are. It only becomes a problem when you refuse to understand your limitations and work-around them.

Cheers

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1076 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  20:01:37  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hate to be that guy, but... have you worked on the Nentir Vale, Markustay? Just to know, no pressure.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  22:14:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No - I saw your post in the other thread, and it reminded me. I'm looking at the 1st week in March for that. Sorry I haven't been back to it yet - so much has been catching my interest lately, and I have a paid map I also have to get done before then.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1076 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2018 :  01:29:33  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeing that Nentir Vale was the place of the new Unhearted Arcane, I came here to pester again

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2018 :  15:20:13  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shhh! MT is busy working...

AD&D for me!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2018 :  20:28:34  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was going to say the same thing, but 'the boss' has spoken. LOL

So many projects, so little time. I really wish they'd move-forward with this whole 'cloning' thing already.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 15 Feb 2018 20:28:49
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2018 :  20:36:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So my attention has come back to Anauroch ATM (a place I tend to, sadly, ignore). Playing with the maps once again, I realized I had made a grave error back when I did a couple of rather bad maps for someone over on the WotC boards (maps that also ended up hosted here at CK, despite them being pretty atrocious). I did those when I had first started mapping, and both my skills and my FR knowledge were nowhere near what they are now.

What I discovered is that that Anauria inset map from the Anauroch product is WRONG. I had used this in my two old (craptastic) maps, and because I couldn't get things to work-out, I stretched and/or rotated stuff to try to make it work. That was a BIG mistake. And the problem with all that is the Brian James later used them as a reference for the 4e Cormyr map (which we can now all pretend happened beause of 'Spellplaguey chaos').

After doing a triple-superimposure, the main cluster of mountains in Anauroch - the ones EVERY edition (including Arcane Age) had in the same exact spot, in the same exact shape - are NOT THERE on the Anauria map, which is what caused me so much grief way back when. Those are the mountains (The Scimitar Spires) that Shade reappeared in, and we had a lake there in 3e (and the same lake was there on the Netheril map as well). So while we can imagine all sorts of 'magical chaos' going on during the fall of Netheril (Karsus, you bastard! {shakes fist}), the mountain range is there both before and after the time of the Netherese Survivor States... but not on that one map.

And this all actually started out with me trying to 'correct' (for probably the 20th time) the problems with all the lore surrounding the Battle of the Bones. It looks as if Mike Shley finally tried to correct some of that - he seems to have gotten the size and shape right - but he also has it too far from the desert (which GREW since then, so if anything, it should be partially in the desert), and he also weirdly turned the Hill of Lost Souls into a mountain... that's too far away. There HAS TO be a 'choke point' there somewhere, because of the way that conflict unfolded, and that's what I was trying to figure out when I got involved with Anauroch and its own problems again. I was going to use the Shadden hills (which I used on my old maps, and Brian James followed suit and they wound up on the Cormyr map Mike Schley did in 4e), but now I realize I had put them WAY too far west... because of the original inconsistencies with the Anauria map.

I really need to just drop every other project and get back to my MAIN project of mapping The entirety of the Realms - I am doing double (triple? quadruple?) work here. On the other hand, figuring some of this stuff out as I go along will help me later, I suppose.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2018 20:38:54
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4014 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2018 :  20:53:50  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did quite a bit of work on Netheril a year or two ago (wow how time flies) and had a few theories about what happened with the Hidden Vale (or the Scimitar Spires as you called it). If you want to talk shop then just shout.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2018 :  22:32:16  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why, what happened to it? Its was in the middle (bottom/south originally, until they annexed Thaeravil) of Netheril, and the stuff happened, and it should have been on the western edge of the survivor-states 9which that map simple leaves-out), and then they are there again, on all other maps. Thus, I have to assume just leaving that region 'blank' was an aesthetic choice. Since the mountains were indeed 'swallowed by the desert', the artist/cartographer did not feel the need to elaborate any further (which is a shame, because its very misleading).

As for a history of Netheril, I already have one, although most of it is my head. It more like a history of Thaeravel, and Netheril is only 'in it' because it took over Thaeravel. Also, the Anauroch product mentions several kingdoms in Anauroch originally, "the greatest of which was Netheril". This means that Netheril probably annexed other small Realms during its history. This works splendidly for me, because in the beginning, they were located way up north, in Seventon.

I think the only way to truly capture what Netheril was like in its growing stages is with one of those time-lapsed maps. Maybe someday...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2018 22:33:08
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2018 :  07:17:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ya know, I have always felt a bit....... ELITIST. C'mon, you guys feel it too. We're not just gamers, we are old-school P&P tabletop gamers! We are the Crème de la Crème. We're SMARTER than everyone else. They're all just 'pissants', am I right?

And today I was on a page about RPG mapping, where there's usually a lot of P&P gamers around. A guy posts a decent map he is working on, and HERE is one of the comments - "Only thing that is missing is what equals 100 miles? An inch? Half an inch..it just shows 100 miles between two vertical lines..other then that the map is amazing". I kid you not - that was a direct C&P.

Methinks our standards have lowered, or perhaps we weren't all as smart as I had assumed?


{This was COMEDY... but true}

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2018 07:18:05
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5161 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2018 :  07:34:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


I think the only way to truly capture what Netheril was like in its growing stages is with one of those time-lapsed maps. Maybe someday...



That's why I need your blank, layered map of Faerûn.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4014 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2018 :  07:53:52  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nothing really happened to the hidden vale after netherils fall. I can give you approximate times that i feel the vale was incorporated into netheril and i can tell you what happened after the fall (goblinoid overrun it, the forest in it expands southwards and creates the large forest on the western edge of anauria that they burn).

The timelapse of the successor states is more interesting as the various states war with each other and then die until only hlondath is left with all of asram and anauria in its borders but too few people to work the land.

Also worked on a 4th successor state based around the tunlands but that had no contact with the others and began to fall apart too early.

I would ask George to keep out of one of my sandboxes but to be honest i want to see what he does with netheril more than i want to keep my ideas.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5161 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2018 :  06:24:32  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal


I would ask George to keep out of one of my sandboxes but to be honest i want to see what he does with netheril more than i want to keep my ideas.



Given how (un)prolific I am, you have no need to worry about what I'll do to your sandbox. Go for it and have fun.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4014 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2018 :  11:00:12  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its quality that matters in the long run. Take your time, i will wait because i know it will be worth it.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2018 :  19:00:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Hidden Vale/Lost Vale is where the saurials live, no? Thats over on the 'side' of Netheril (eastern Netheril, or rather, eastern Anauroch, because Netheril actually extended in that direction past where Anauroch now lies). Thats NOT what I was talking about at all - I am talking about that central cluster (another crater-shape mountain-ring) of mountains that had the lake in it in 3e, right where Shade was parked. I have the maps open ATM and superimposed, and the 'survivor state' map is missing those mountains - Orolin, in fact, should be on the other side of them! I also notice that the city of Mhaelos (Hlondath's capital) falls out almost right on top of Dagger's Point (and considering the maps get a little warped when scanned, it probably IS right on top of it). The only more northerly city of Hlonadath shown is Rulvader (Darthvader? ), and that falls ut fairly close to where Delia fell.

Just reading through Delia's entry, I never noticed before that it seems Delia started-out as an Elven/druidic enclave and only later became part of Netheril-proper. Now THAT is interesting. Once it started to become more like the other enclaves, most of the elves left. But what of lady Polaris? Was she fey/Elven?

Fey... Polaris... 'North Star'... Aurilandur?
It literally says she took over the thing, and then got bored with running it. It almost sounds like something an ancient being who was just looking for ways to kill time would do things. She was also intensely interested in the Phaerimm, and reported directly to Iouluam and Karsus. What's odd is the rest of her personality screams 'very independent', but on this one thing she was almost like their 'lacky'. The lore even states she forced the enclave to join Netheril after 'taking over' (which further suggests she wasn't the one who created the enclave).

Interesting...

EDIT:
Better idea than Auril... Iyraclea! Iyraclea came from Halruaa, and we all know the Halruaans came from Netheril. She's described as "ancient and mighty". It would make perfect sense if Iyraclea was really Polaris. The ruler of the only Elven enclave to be a Chosen of a fey goddess (which she was BEFORE she moved to the Great Glacier, and isn't it extremely odd that a Chosen of the an Ice Goddess would be living practically on the equator in a tropical region?) I think she went to Halruaa (like most of the other important folk who survived), and then grew bored there and moved back north, near her old home.

Also, the very last line of the Delia entry says she was 'intimate' with the Phaerimm. Polaris' city was located right near where Rulvader was later founded, which was just north of Hlondath's capital, Mhaelos, which appears to be a renamed Dagger's point. THAT settlement was said to have 'survived' after Ntehril's fall because it had some sort of 'arrangement' with the Phaerimm. I have to wonder if Polaris' "intimacy" with the Phaerimm enabled the formation of Hlondath - she wanted to give her people a chance to survive (maybe before she herself left for Haluraa)?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2018 19:15:13
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