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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jan 2018 : 15:30:02
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OoOOOOooh, I'm excited.
Have you ever thought about turning in your work as a resume to WOTC. You'd be a great addition |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2018 : 20:46:25
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Thank you, NO.
I don't work well with others. You can ask at least a dozen people around here about that. I have my own methodology and speed (or lack there of), and its not conducive to a good working relationship. The only kind of job I'd ever except is "guy in charge of everything", and A) who'd hire someone to be THEIR boss? And B) that would be stupid if they did, because I'd want to micromanage every last detail and do it all myself. In other words, I'd be exactly like Gary Gygax. And while we may applaud his creation and vision, and his epic talent, in the end he became an anchor holding D&D back (because I think his personality was very akin to my own).
There is nothing wrong with being 'imperfect'. We all are. It only becomes a problem when you refuse to understand your limitations and work-around them.
Cheers |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2018 : 20:01:37
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| Hate to be that guy, but... have you worked on the Nentir Vale, Markustay? Just to know, no pressure. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2018 : 22:14:57
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| No - I saw your post in the other thread, and it reminded me. I'm looking at the 1st week in March for that. Sorry I haven't been back to it yet - so much has been catching my interest lately, and I have a paid map I also have to get done before then. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2442 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2018 : 01:29:33
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Seeing that Nentir Vale was the place of the new Unhearted Arcane, I came here to pester again  |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2018 : 15:20:13
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| Shhh! MT is busy working... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2018 : 20:28:34
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I was going to say the same thing, but 'the boss' has spoken. LOL
So many projects, so little time. I really wish they'd move-forward with this whole 'cloning' thing already.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Feb 2018 20:28:49 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2018 : 20:36:57
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So my attention has come back to Anauroch ATM (a place I tend to, sadly, ignore). Playing with the maps once again, I realized I had made a grave error back when I did a couple of rather bad maps for someone over on the WotC boards (maps that also ended up hosted here at CK, despite them being pretty atrocious). I did those when I had first started mapping, and both my skills and my FR knowledge were nowhere near what they are now.
What I discovered is that that Anauria inset map from the Anauroch product is WRONG. I had used this in my two old (craptastic) maps, and because I couldn't get things to work-out, I stretched and/or rotated stuff to try to make it work. That was a BIG mistake. And the problem with all that is the Brian James later used them as a reference for the 4e Cormyr map (which we can now all pretend happened beause of 'Spellplaguey chaos').
After doing a triple-superimposure, the main cluster of mountains in Anauroch - the ones EVERY edition (including Arcane Age) had in the same exact spot, in the same exact shape - are NOT THERE on the Anauria map, which is what caused me so much grief way back when. Those are the mountains (The Scimitar Spires) that Shade reappeared in, and we had a lake there in 3e (and the same lake was there on the Netheril map as well). So while we can imagine all sorts of 'magical chaos' going on during the fall of Netheril (Karsus, you bastard! {shakes fist}), the mountain range is there both before and after the time of the Netherese Survivor States... but not on that one map.
And this all actually started out with me trying to 'correct' (for probably the 20th time) the problems with all the lore surrounding the Battle of the Bones. It looks as if Mike Shley finally tried to correct some of that - he seems to have gotten the size and shape right - but he also has it too far from the desert (which GREW since then, so if anything, it should be partially in the desert), and he also weirdly turned the Hill of Lost Souls into a mountain... that's too far away. There HAS TO be a 'choke point' there somewhere, because of the way that conflict unfolded, and that's what I was trying to figure out when I got involved with Anauroch and its own problems again. I was going to use the Shadden hills (which I used on my old maps, and Brian James followed suit and they wound up on the Cormyr map Mike Schley did in 4e), but now I realize I had put them WAY too far west... because of the original inconsistencies with the Anauria map.
I really need to just drop every other project and get back to my MAIN project of mapping The entirety of the Realms - I am doing double (triple? quadruple?) work here. On the other hand, figuring some of this stuff out as I go along will help me later, I suppose. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2018 20:38:54 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2018 : 22:32:16
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Why, what happened to it? Its was in the middle (bottom/south originally, until they annexed Thaeravil) of Netheril, and the stuff happened, and it should have been on the western edge of the survivor-states 9which that map simple leaves-out), and then they are there again, on all other maps. Thus, I have to assume just leaving that region 'blank' was an aesthetic choice. Since the mountains were indeed 'swallowed by the desert', the artist/cartographer did not feel the need to elaborate any further (which is a shame, because its very misleading).
As for a history of Netheril, I already have one, although most of it is my head. It more like a history of Thaeravel, and Netheril is only 'in it' because it took over Thaeravel. Also, the Anauroch product mentions several kingdoms in Anauroch originally, "the greatest of which was Netheril". This means that Netheril probably annexed other small Realms during its history. This works splendidly for me, because in the beginning, they were located way up north, in Seventon. 
I think the only way to truly capture what Netheril was like in its growing stages is with one of those time-lapsed maps. Maybe someday... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Feb 2018 22:33:08 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2018 : 07:17:15
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Ya know, I have always felt a bit....... ELITIST. C'mon, you guys feel it too. We're not just gamers, we are old-school P&P tabletop gamers! We are the Crème de la Crème. We're SMARTER than everyone else. They're all just 'pissants', am I right?
And today I was on a page about RPG mapping, where there's usually a lot of P&P gamers around. A guy posts a decent map he is working on, and HERE is one of the comments - "Only thing that is missing is what equals 100 miles? An inch? Half an inch..it just shows 100 miles between two vertical lines..other then that the map is amazing". I kid you not - that was a direct C&P.
Methinks our standards have lowered, or perhaps we weren't all as smart as I had assumed? 
{This was COMEDY... but true} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2018 07:18:05 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2018 : 07:34:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think the only way to truly capture what Netheril was like in its growing stages is with one of those time-lapsed maps. Maybe someday...
That's why I need your blank, layered map of Faerûn.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2018 : 06:24:32
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I would ask George to keep out of one of my sandboxes but to be honest i want to see what he does with netheril more than i want to keep my ideas.
Given how (un)prolific I am, you have no need to worry about what I'll do to your sandbox. Go for it and have fun.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2018 : 19:00:29
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The Hidden Vale/Lost Vale is where the saurials live, no? Thats over on the 'side' of Netheril (eastern Netheril, or rather, eastern Anauroch, because Netheril actually extended in that direction past where Anauroch now lies). Thats NOT what I was talking about at all - I am talking about that central cluster (another crater-shape mountain-ring) of mountains that had the lake in it in 3e, right where Shade was parked. I have the maps open ATM and superimposed, and the 'survivor state' map is missing those mountains - Orolin, in fact, should be on the other side of them! I also notice that the city of Mhaelos (Hlondath's capital) falls out almost right on top of Dagger's Point (and considering the maps get a little warped when scanned, it probably IS right on top of it). The only more northerly city of Hlonadath shown is Rulvader (Darthvader? ), and that falls ut fairly close to where Delia fell.
Just reading through Delia's entry, I never noticed before that it seems Delia started-out as an Elven/druidic enclave and only later became part of Netheril-proper. Now THAT is interesting. Once it started to become more like the other enclaves, most of the elves left. But what of lady Polaris? Was she fey/Elven?
Fey... Polaris... 'North Star'... Aurilandur? 
It literally says she took over the thing, and then got bored with running it. It almost sounds like something an ancient being who was just looking for ways to kill time would do things. She was also intensely interested in the Phaerimm, and reported directly to Iouluam and Karsus. What's odd is the rest of her personality screams 'very independent', but on this one thing she was almost like their 'lacky'. The lore even states she forced the enclave to join Netheril after 'taking over' (which further suggests she wasn't the one who created the enclave).
Interesting...
EDIT:
Better idea than Auril... Iyraclea! Iyraclea came from Halruaa, and we all know the Halruaans came from Netheril. She's described as "ancient and mighty". It would make perfect sense if Iyraclea was really Polaris. The ruler of the only Elven enclave to be a Chosen of a fey goddess (which she was BEFORE she moved to the Great Glacier, and isn't it extremely odd that a Chosen of the an Ice Goddess would be living practically on the equator in a tropical region?) I think she went to Halruaa (like most of the other important folk who survived), and then grew bored there and moved back north, near her old home.
Also, the very last line of the Delia entry says she was 'intimate' with the Phaerimm. Polaris' city was located right near where Rulvader was later founded, which was just north of Hlondath's capital, Mhaelos, which appears to be a renamed Dagger's point. THAT settlement was said to have 'survived' after Ntehril's fall because it had some sort of 'arrangement' with the Phaerimm. I have to wonder if Polaris' "intimacy" with the Phaerimm enabled the formation of Hlondath - she wanted to give her people a chance to survive (maybe before she herself left for Haluraa)? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2018 19:15:13 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2018 : 19:37:10
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I never really took this in-depth a look at Netheril from a mapping perspective before -so many things I was unaware of.
Seventon - the original lands and name of Netheril was FAR north, like at the same latitude as The Frozen Forest! (the southern tip of it, anyway).
Now, we KNOW the Hgh Ice was the Narrow Sea back then (which has to be completely unrelated to the Annam/Ulutiu stuff). This indicates a much warmer climate, which ties into my theories about a northern tearfall in or around the Moonsea region. That tearfall may coincide (and even be related to) Karsus and the fall of the Weave (New Theory: Every time the Weave goes haywire, another 'tearfall' occurs).
Also, if Polaris is as ancient a personage as the lore indicates, and she lived in or around Seventon, that mean she lived quite close - at the SAME latitude - as she does later as Iyraclea! Furthermore, I have suggested that Arual has been looking for - and may have found some - of her 'Frost regalia', one piece of which is Ulutiu's necklace. the lore unequivocally states that Iyraclea is actively searching for Jothûn, which was a part of Ostoria. And to make matters even MORE interesting, the only pic I can find of Iyraclea shows her near a being frozen in ice!!!
Ulutiu? Did Iyraclea retrieve Auril's necklace finally?
EDIT:
Okay, spotted some weirdness - did Evereska exist at the time of Netheril? Because according to the Netheril map, it didn't.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2018 20:03:24 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2018 : 05:02:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It may have existed, but was entirely unknown to the Netherese.
The Netherese settlement of Wreathe is literally sitting on top of Evereska itself. When i superimpose them, its in the same exact spot.
Yet the Wreathe lore (from the Netheril box) makes no mention of elves, at all.
quote:
Nestled at the base of the Purple Mountains* within the Far Horns Forest in 1714, the city of Wreathe served Netheril as a permanent hunting camp. From here, hunters took out parties of inexperienced warriors and taught them how to hunt game in the wilds of the Far Horns.
More experienced warriors were taken into the Purple Mountains to hunt more dangerous game: dragons, wyverns, manticores, and others. These creatures’ body parts became a popular export for the city, which suddenly found itself specializing in dragon jerky, tail charms from manticores, and wyverntooth necklaces.
And it actually gets worse, talking about the dragons those 'mountains' were filled with. One ancient Blue one named 'Brightstrike' had a brood that turned around and made war with Wreathe.
Funny how all of that didn't bother the elves of Evereska... who were walking around in the same physical space... and weren't ever noticed by the humans or monsters...
Those Tricksy Elves!
*The Nethrese called the Greycloak Hills "The Purple Mountains" (maybe they were taller?), which included both the upper 'range', and the lower one that evereska sits in. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Feb 2018 05:04:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2018 : 05:08:30
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On the old Anauroch map there's a ruin called 'Orofin' (if someone has the physical map can you double check that?), and on the Inset (survivor-state) map, there is a capital city of Orilin, which isn't that far away from Orofin; same place?
EDIT:
The FRIA map states "Orofin, formerly Orolin" (so if its ruin, how does a ruin have a 'former name'?) I believe this was an error - the places were 50 miles apart, and one was on the far (west) side of the mountains, while the other was 'in' those mountains (and probably on the near/east side - it may have been where the folks of Orofin resettled after the fall). The mountains themselves were the divider for the desert during the survivor-state period - there is no way Anauria had its capital inside the blasted desert region, when the rest of the kingdom was on the verdant side of the mountains.
I am re-working this region now - I am going to tweak the Wreathe lore as well (move it into the northern cluster of mountains, and we can just say that Evereska's mythal can generate an illusion of invisibility around itself.
I have five different Anauroch maps pasted on top of each other - its interesting to see where some of the Netherese stuff fell-out later. A lot of the Bedine stuff falls-out within the survivor States, which makes a lot of sense. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Feb 2018 05:22:56 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2018 : 18:04:15
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Well, Evereska existed, even though its not mentioned in the Netheril lore. I am starting to understand why some of the 'luminaries' we've had around here developed an eye-twitch when it came to the Netheril (box) lore - the guy went out of his way to rename stuff. He literally created cities on top of (Ed's) ruins with names different than the ruins. Why would someone do THAT?!
On the other hand, as I 'line-up' stuff on the maps, I have found one very interesting little detail - there is a hill just to the west of Shadowdale called "Oakwood Knoll". It happens to be in the exact spot the Netherese settlement of Monikar was!
And Monikar was a magic-HATING settlement of Netheril... how odd. They even had a subterranean temple of Kozah!!! Now, why would a storm/sky god want a temple in the Underdark? Its almost as if this was a completely different aspect of another god. 
Oh... and they had non-magical devices - purchased from DWARVES - they gave them flight capabilities. 
Personally, I'd re-spin that as gnomes... and even then its still.. odd.
When it comes to FR/D&D lore and mapping, some people say I have the attention span of a gnat. This simply isn't true - I ENVY gnats for their attention spans.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Feb 2018 18:04:51 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2018 : 19:01:41
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I probably have more 'canon' info on Everesa than is available to 'the masses', since Eric Boyd went to great lengths to flesh Evereska out for his High Forest book (and I even re-drew the map of Evereska for him). I should check my (HIS) own notes on the matter. The weird thing is, it was 'off the map' on the regional map I did, but he needed to work-out all the details because of the all the Elven kingdoms that existed IN The High Forest. I had planned an extension of that map (the maps of both his projects sync-up on a MUCH larger canvas - and show a LOT more than even he ever got to see LOL) that would show Evereska as well, but then he stopped working on it.
I plan to keep most of the Netheril stuff - it doesn't make sense to completely overhaul it. The two sets of names for stuff is easily reconcilable - the original names were in Netherese, and that's the names we usually see on the ruins. When Larloch was talking to Szass Tam, he was automatically translating the names into their modern equivalents. It really is that simple. Oh, and one 'extra fix' - the word 'Shade' comes directly from Netherese, which is why that 'nickname' was also used during Netheril. In other words, 'we' got it from 'them'.
I changed my mind back to dwarves. I have a good idea for Monikar - they didn't hate magic... they hated Arcane Magic. It even specifically says that they were heavily influenced by dwarves in the area. Rune Magic - the same stuff that kept the cities aloft in the Cloud Kingdom! THAT could explain the weird, non-magical flying contraptions. If we DO look at it from Larloch's PoV (as we should), they had NO magic, because HE had zero understanding of Rune-based magic. More tie-ins for my Thaeravel lore! 
Thus, Monikar became 'not a thing' after the dwarves left Tethyamar. Its interesting that it is under a mound now - was it buried on-purpose?
Also, I truly wish I had been around when Eric and George (and Ed, and Steven, etc.) used to hash-out all the history 'in the background', because geography has a big impact on that, and I think those guys - brilliant as they are - may have missed a few things. For example, why would the greater percentage of surviving 'low Netherese' have become barbarians? At least three different 'kinds', too. The Bedine thing I already worked-out a fix for, but we still have the group that traveled up to Hartsvale (because when you are trying to escape a suddenly inhospitable land, the brightest thing to do is head into an even MORE inhospitable land), and also the folks who joined the Rengart(sp?)
If you had those three survivor states there - and the desert sure as hell didn't 'happen overnight' - the folks had PLENTY OF TIME to settle nice areas, and NOT be 'barbarians. The survivors literally had a choice - nice lifestyle in lovely regions, or become subsistence-level hunter-gatherers living in extremely inhospitable areas. And here I thought the Netherese were 'smart'. It almost appears that after the Weave collapsed, all the IQs were reduced to about 3 or so.
NO - they pushed east, which is VERY evident by that survivor-state map. There were a couple of Netherese settlements already in The Dalelands, and several more appeared during the survivor-state period. That's indicative of the Dales having been settled by the ex-Netherese, over-time. It took several centuries for the desert to push to where it is today - plenty of time for the people to keep moving out of the way. Then they would have also had to have pushed into the Moonsea area - probably starting around Daggerdale and Zhentil Keep - as the 'monster realms' fell (the People of the Black Sails, and whatever else was going on up there). The original format of 'The Dales' may have even been refugee camps setup by the elves (not because they're 'nice guys', but to keep watch over them... like disobedient beasts).
I never liked the whole "Cormyr was settled from Impiltur" thing because it never made much sense to me, geographically. Its all wrong. However, there are a LOT of indications that the Impultarran settlers were running into already-existing human settlements the further north they pushed (like Eveningstar, or Arabel). So we basically had 'new blood' landing on the shores of a place that already had a few human outposts (only in the north, where the elves permitted); settlements of tired and war-weary folk from Low Netheril. This would help explain Cormyr's rapid growth. The Impilturrans were only half the picture - the existing Netherese survivors (who were mostly in actuality Thaeravel survivors, since southern Netheril was Thaeravel which they annexed) were already there, but disorganized (and the elves kept it that way). The Impultarrans brought with them a new sense of propose and destiny, which shifted the paradigm (and annoyed the elves, which is covered in the novels). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Feb 2018 19:46:51 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2018 : 20:50:39
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You do realize 'Seventon' (the original 'realm') is at the same latitude as The Tortured Lands, right? WAY north of the Moonsea and even Thar. It was just barely below the southern edge of Sossal (latitude-wise)! That's why I think that the Fall of the Weave (and Netheril) interrupted something else that was effecting weather, or perhaps interrupted something that was already interrupting a weather changing effect. For example, suppose the Giants of Jothûn - an Ostoria survivor-state - finally figured out how to do a ritual that would dampen the effects of Ulutiu's necklace? So a nice chunk of territory begins to 'warm up' for them, and keep the glacier at bay for a thousand years or so. Then the Weave comes crashing down and the magic runs amok - all that 'stored up' cold that's been holding back sweeps down and starts freezing everything like crazy.
I'm not saying I would use that (in fact, I already hate it, because I don't think Rune Magic should be Weave-dependent), but those are the lines I am thinking along here something was holding back all that cold-magic, until the Weave fell. It may have even been something the Netherese themselves did (although I think it should predate them, since they settled around Seventon, which was right on the edge of the High Ice, which was water at the time. So maybe post-giants but pre-Netheril. The Ogres supposedly had a Kingdom up in Thar, although that's quite a leap saying they would have been that powerful (Orcs also say they had a kingdom there - maybe Gruumsh, in his Kozah aspect?) Thar is pretty central to the area I see being 'de-iced' for a time.
But lets talk about Rivers. I like rivers. I know some people don't, because it interferes with all the fantasy explanations for stuff (because rivers are where REAL settlements belong). I just discovered a NEW river. Or rather, just realized two major rivers used to be one. After superimposing the maps, I realized that the Ashaba used to be a MUCH more 'major' river, and began in the High Ice, or what was The Narrow Sea back in the day. It cuts right through the mountains there and on over into Shadowdale. Once I layered all the maps, it becomes plain as day. Now its divided into the (lower) Ashaba River, and the River of Gems that runs through Anauroch. When Basin Lake (and Lake Miir) dried-up, they became 'unconnected'. This explains all those small rivers running out of the Desertmouth Mountains (you can see where they go on the Netheril map). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2018 : 21:35:03
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Thanks to an old post by Dalor Darden, I found it...
quote:
–2465 DR
The elves of Lethyr use High Magic to stop the spread of the Great Glacier southward and to regulate temperatures, thereby preserving their forest home and surrounding lands.
Thats at least one example of 'weather tampering' in regards to the far north of the Glacier(s).
I'm 'drawing a bead' elsewhere though - there is literally a circle of 'unfrozen' land where The Great mount of Ghaethluntar is. Hmmmmmm...
ED:Tquote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
The rivers thing really confused me. I'm not certain but I think the Netheril boxed set had the river flowing south to north but the Anauroch boxed set had it flowing the opposite way around. I split it in two and around about the same level as the scimitar spires it flows south to north up to the Narrow Sea and also north to south down to the Dalelands.
When the desert forms it changes all that with a huge glacier growth and accumulation of sand and other magical oddities that cause the river to flow north to south the entire way. But I was never much of a geographer so I'm happy to alter things if someone can come up with a better explanation of what is going on. I can try and find the quotes that say which way the water is flowing and then see what can be explained.
You'd be surprised by how many 'intelligent' people I have run into (doing maps, etc.) that think rivers flow INLAND from the coast. They think that the water moves from the sea to the land, instead of vice-vers.
It boggles the mind.
But as for that river, it clearly runs all the way from the Narrow Sea (which itself formed from glacial run-off), down to the lake(s) that were in the survivor states, through the mountains (there is even a pass there), and hooks up with the Ashaba.
Going through old threads trying to find WHAT was up in the Tortured Lands, Ed mentions 'ancient lost kingdoms' from a time before humans became prevalent (Not saying some of them weren't human - just a time predating human 'supremacy'). Something about Mount Ghaethluntar has always bugged me - its just sitting there all by itself. Mountains do NOT form like that. And its riddled with tunnels and caverns.
There are some truly (pre-human) 'dwellings' in K-T as well, over in Guge, that look like 'honey-combed mountains', that are very similar to ant-hills designed by something roughly human-sized. I've linked those to eastern drow, but perhaps they are even old than the drow. Some sort of fey-mounds? Although Ghaethluntar - if it is one - would have to be the largest one ever recorded in the Prime Mate4ial (AFAIK). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Feb 2018 22:21:03 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2018 : 22:22:42
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Spellweaver ruin by the monument of the ancients (although i could be a few thousand miles out as that map was the wrong way up)
Plus, that map is also using the warped 3e topology.
It would be MUCH further left (off the northern edge of the map) than the MotA map shows. I also just noticed that map is missing the village of Bluestone, which should be at that intersection just above the double 'oo' in Moonsea North. Tsk Tsk
The 'effect' seems to be centered some hundred miles NE of Ghaethluntar, almost right in the middle between that mountain and the Sunrise (Taurax) Mountains, but its easily reconcilable. First off, meta-gaming, they 'twisted' a lot of the north from Ed's originals because of Vaasa & Damara. Secondly, the Phaerimm's life-draining effect seems to also 'suck up' warmth as well (I think they are like vampires but the what they 'drink' is the ultraviolet spectrum of energy), so what we may have here is two (or more) effects 'conflicting', throwing the center-point off.
In other words, Ulutiu's necklace freezes the whole of the north (giants go bye bye). Then certain groups do what they can to either counter or 'turn off' the effect within a set region, like the Lethyr elves. Lets say Ghaethluntar is tied to one such effect. That means the 'de-icing' effect from it should spread at least another 150 miles SW. What we see there (on the FRIA and Fonstad maps) is a circle that's been 'flattened' on one side - what I assume to be the Phaerimm's "Life-Draining Magics" countering the warming 'magic' or whatever is going on there.
And it may not even be magic - it could be natural volcanism at play. If Ghaethluntar is a dormant volcano, and the whole area is filled with hot springs and other geothermal activity, that could explain it as well (Nature has its own magic). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Feb 2018 22:42:18 |
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