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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
 Posted - 12 May 2014 : 22:38:15
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As far as I know most ways of attaining a form of immortality for humans on Toril are arcane and/or involve becoming undead. I think attaining divinity probably counts as one means that doesn't have to involve arcane or profane rituals. Are there any other non arcane ways known on Faerun or beyond that allow a man of faith or martial prowess to attain true immortality?
If taken for truth, druids and monks attain a higher state of being at their apex of power, and stop aging. If the druids power over age is granted by Silvanus and he hasn't taken away that power in a legend of some sort, could the agelessness be a taken as a form of limited immortality? Monks attain outsider status through their meditations, which is a psionic way in a sense. Could some of these transcended monks or psions of old have found true immortality?
Are there not legends of immortals walking the lands of the distant east? The Nine Travelers might have been just a bunch of very high level monks.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 22:56:04
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One of my Realmsified warforged, the eidelar, were folks that found immortality through psionics, instead of magic. They transferred their consciousnesses into crystalline statues that they'd prepared, and animated those.
Outside of psionics, though, I think immortality requires either magic or divinity, either directly (becoming a lich) or indirectly ("Hey, a never-ending supply of potions of longevity!).
You could make an argument for a monk-type achieving such great unity of body and mind that he was able to stop aging, I suppose... Of course, someone capable of doing that wouldn't be likely to do so... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 23:19:44
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Well one should consider a deity granting dive power, or the even worst case of killing a deity and managing to claim some part of the portfolio in order to become dive.
I do not see a PC earning divine or immortal status without dive assistance in the Realms. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 00:40:03
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Wizards, priests and psionicists can lich themselves. Although I'm only aware of Baneliches, not any serving other gods. Hierophant druids, some monks, bards, and other classes receive agelessness at their apex levels.
Elves have the option of becoming baelnorn, basically a type of lich variant.
One might become a vampire, ghost, specter, or other apparition and retain at least a partial sense of their living identity.
Chosen of various deities are effectively immortal (ageless and damned hard to kill), and not all of these need be spellcasters.
There are potions of longevity, elixirs of youth, and other such things which remove aging (just erase all those years).
There are phylacteries, painted portraits, hourglasses, and other items which cancel aging (the item ages while its owner does not, to a limit).
A journey through the Demiplane of Time (aka Temporal Prime) could revert one to an earlier point in their lifepath.
One might find Mystra's Well (I think that's what it's called) and receive great longevity, with or without her boon.
Various devils might grant years of life in exchange for eternity of afterlife. Just ask around.
Wishes can remove some years, or can slow future aging ... multiple wishes could effectively halt aging to a crawl.
The list goes on. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 02:19:58
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| There really shouldn't be a non-magical/divine/psionic method of achieving immortality. That said, you could get Pathfinder's Mythic ruleset for other means of achieving immortality (or close to it). You may also want to look into the GURPS rules for a point-buy method of extending life. Otherwise, what Ayrik just said. Cheers. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 05:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Wizards, priests and psionicists can lich themselves.
So can druids. See Lossarwyn the Ice Lich. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 17:27:55
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I agree somekind of external magic is needed to grant immortality to 'mundane' folk or (anti)heroes of the realms. Fountains of Youth anywhere in canon?
During the time of troubles random people that were slain in wild magic zones have been reported to rise as Cursts, a rare type of undead that retains a (severly diminished) sense of self but that slowly regenerates all wounds and stops aging. A Curst is no true undead, but isn't living anymore either. Some of their kind have gained infamy as very elusive but vengeful creatures.
Deathknights are also effectivly immortal, but fully undead and not likely to stay out of trouble for long enough to effectively make use of their longevity. The most prominent deathknight in the Realms I know of is the one serving that Impilturan succubus Soneillon, the fallen king of Impiltur Imbrar Heltharn. But I doubt he is gonna last long, despite his high level. Anyone know of his fate in the 15th century of the Realms? |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Syllick Rhondial
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 03:19:37
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| Some reach immortality through some accident, (although it's magical in nature). Aoth Fezim, Sayeed, and Zeeahd were all given immortality through the Spellplague. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 04:30:21
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Immortality can also be achieved via "an unfortunate accident with an irrational particle accelerator, a liquid lunch, and a pair of rubber bands. The precise details are not important because no one has ever managed to duplicate the exact circumstances under which it happened, and many people have ended up looking very silly, or dead, or both, trying."
Credit to the late Douglas Adams, for that one. |
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Ilmarinnen
Acolyte
Ukraine
29 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 16:04:49
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The description of the spell Reincarnation states:
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spell creates an entirely new young adult body
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Thus, I suppose, anyone able to find a willng druid of 7+ level, to pay and compensate him the components, and to provide the caster's loyalty while he'll be dead, can get a new lifespan.
This creates an interesting concept of characters - reincarnated into some completely unpredictable race, or even living centuries in shape of different lifeforms.
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 18:15:17
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@Ilmarinnen
Reincarnate is exactly how my high level Cormyrean noble planned to continue on. Leadership feat and a whole lot of charisma on that guy.
He figured, once he started slowing down too much, he'd grab his second or even third tier gear and go on a bit of a rampage. Try to destroy threats to Cormyr that may be a little too big for him to succeed at. After all, death would only mean it's time for a new body. Wash and repeat.
Never got a chance to try it in game though. I wonder if the permanent Telepathic Links he had would carry over to the new body. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 19:08:33
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@Ilmarinnen: That's a very interesting work around, I've never thought of it. I'm not sure I would over indulge that as a DM as one could make the case that the gods would see it as an abuse of their power. I would see Silvanus, for instance, as more likely to allow several reincarnations on a servant of his rather than a random PC.
@Artemel: That would be an interesting campaign. Personally, I would rule that the Telepathic Links break upon death and can't be restored upon reincarnation, or even resurrection for that matter. They would have to be reforged. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 22:08:10
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@The Arcanamach: Yeah, that was my thought. It would have simplified things too much if they remained. After all, it would be pretty good evidence that the reincarnated fellow is the same as the old guy... even if he came back as something not even remotely similar.
Heh. Reminds me of a Lathandarite who went from Half-elf to Kobold. That took some explaining. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 22:29:38
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Hmm SRD 3.5 offers quote:
A reincarnated creature recalls the majority of its former life and form. It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body. First eliminate the subject’s racial adjustments (since it is no longer of his previous race) and then apply the adjustments found below to its remaining ability scores. The subject’s level (or Hit Dice) is reduced by 1. If the subject was 1st level, its new Constitution score is reduced by 2. (If this reduction would put its Con at 0 or lower, it can’t be reincarnated). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.
This strikes me as over powered, by far.
2nd Edition offered quote:
The corpse is touched, and a new incarnation of the person appears in the area in 1d6 turns. The person reincarnated recalls the majority of his former life and form, but the character class, if any, of the new incarnation might be very different indeed.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 23:48:29
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at dm's will, reincarnation can bring you back as a dragon.... alot of good your top tier gear would do you at that point.......
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 14 May 2014 23:50:12 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2014 : 02:22:29
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I don't really see the 3.5E reincarnation as a problem. You've used the spell to continue on in your game and campaign. It just gives the DM some free rein (with a bit of consultation) to change the racial make-up of that PC and inject some nuance to the campaign. The old 1E "Rogues Gallery" product had both lizard man and centaur PCs that had become that way through use of the reincarnation spell. I always thought that both were mega-cool.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Roads to Immortality for non casters
