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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 11 May 2014 : 18:59:44
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I think if you cross a fiend with a god you get an Infernal, is there a goodly (or even Neutral) equivalent?
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2014 : 19:17:55
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Infernals, to my knowledge, are only found in the Epic Level Handbook and there aren't any good equivalents (presumably the child of a good-aligned god wouldn't be an abomination like an Infernal). Though potentially, you could have an atropal born of a good god, one of the parents wouldn't necessarily be a celestial though. The ELH does have a LN abomination called an Anaxim, but these are not technically children, more an artificial creation gone wrong. Apart from Anaxims, they are all CE or LE.
In the Forgotten Realms, gods having children is a rare event. There are only two confirmed cases I can think of off of my head, Bright Nydra (born of Selune and Shaundakul) & Iyachtu Xvim (born of Bane and a marilith demon). Iyachtu was not an Infernal, but a particularly powerful half-fiend and Bright Nydra was a demi-god.
Edit: I suppose there are also the children of Hiatea and Othea who were gods and giant progenitors depending on the father but I think that their offspring are potentially too confusing. The orc goddess Luthic also had a son with Gruumsh who is a lesser deity. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 11 May 2014 19:34:01 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2014 : 19:40:34
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Each god and each group of gods is basically a unique and special exception to normal rules. Each of their offspring is technically a demigod (although not necessarily an actual demigod in D&D divine rank categories) which is also a unique and special exception.
Although this (God + Fiend = Infernal) definition is new to me. Is it 4E lore?
In 1E/2E lore, (God + whatever = Demigod), and Infernal (aka Devil/Baatezu) is only one major subtype of Fiend (the other major subtypes being CE Demon/Tanarri and NE Daemon/Yugoloth). There are also various Archfiend types (Archdevils, Demonlords, etc) which are essentially gods (at least within their own realms), allthough they are comparatively few in number. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2014 : 20:54:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Although this (God + Fiend = Infernal) definition is new to me. Is it 4E lore?
3.5 Epic Level Handbook has infernal as a type of "abomination" (unheartly horrors that shake campaign worlds) and both god+devil and god+demon are bunched together in this category (with obvious alignment differences). In the same "abomination" category are the atropal (undead godly fetus), the anaxim (mechanical nightmare created by the gods and now free-willed) and the ecatonchieries (i'm sure i got the spelling wrong: pillars of flesh with one hundred arms able to slice most gods to pieces and so feared by all) plus other nasties i don't remember without checking the source.
Yeah, that book has a lot of unbelievably and uselessly overpowered things in it. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2014 : 23:04:10
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Hekatonkheires are 50-headed 100-handed giants from classic Greek mythology. Known as Hecatoncheires in AD&D 1E and in the D&D3.5E SRD.
Hmmm, interesting stuff. Looks like it might be time to look again through all that 3E/3.5E lore. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 02:50:20
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| 50 heads and 100 arms..... man that poor guy's single penis will be wore down to a nub. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 06:07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
[quote]Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Infernals, to my knowledge, are only found in the Epic Level Handbook and there aren't any good equivalents (presumably the child of a good-aligned god wouldn't be an abomination like an Infernal). Though potentially, you could have an atropal born of a good god, one of the parents wouldn't necessarily be a celestial though. The ELH does have a LN abomination called an Anaxim, but these are not technically children, more an artificial creation gone wrong. Apart from Anaxims, they are all CE or LE.
In the Forgotten Realms, gods having children is a rare event. There are only two confirmed cases I can think of off of my head, Bright Nydra (born of Selune and Shaundakul) & Iyachtu Xvim (born of Bane and a marilith demon). Iyachtu was not an Infernal, but a particularly powerful half-fiend and Bright Nydra was a demi-god.
Edit: I suppose there are also the children of Hiatea and Othea who were gods and giant progenitors depending on the father but I think that their offspring are potentially too confusing. The orc goddess Luthic also had a son with Gruumsh who is a lesser deity.
Mordukhaver is supposedly the offspring between Tiamat and one of the dark 8, not sure if he's canon, but he's described as an abomination even though they are similiar alignments. I can't really remember, but didn't he make a brief appearance in "Elminster in Hell?" When Mystra invaded?
http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=929
I'd be really curious to find out what would result from a union between a Solar and a Goodly God. I'm sure unions like this have to happen from time to time since they are in such close proximity.
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2014 : 10:22:21
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Well Heironeous(a god associated with paladins from Oerth) has a half celestial daughter, imprisoned by Dispater. Dicefreaks created a counterpart to Infernals, celestial/deity offspring called Galaxars, continuing on the Astral Deva-Planetar-Solar astral theme.
http://dicefreaks.freeforums.org/galaxar-stats-old-t10.html |
Edited by - Baltas on 12 May 2014 10:35:03 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 01:16:56
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Mordukhaver is supposedly the offspring between Tiamat and one of the dark 8, not sure if he's canon, but he's described as an abomination even though they are similiar alignments. I can't really remember, but didn't he make a brief appearance in "Elminster in Hell?" When Mystra invaded?
http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=929
He was the spawn of Tiamat and Cantrum (see the last print issue of Dragon). As for being an abomination, the word was used in the general sense of meaning, not the ELH sense. That was the intent at least. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Byte Man
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 01:54:08
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quote:
In the Forgotten Realms, gods having children is a rare event. There are only two confirmed cases I can think of off of my head, Bright Nydra (born of Selune and Shaundakul) & Iyachtu Xvim (born of Bane and a marilith demon). Iyachtu was not an Infernal, but a particularly powerful half-fiend and Bright Nydra was a demi-god.
You seem to be forgetting the whole Bhaalspawn saga, which has been confirmed canon. And let's not forget, with goddesses like Sune and Sharess, who knows HOW many progeny arerunning around with Divine Level 0? |
All will be well... |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 03:11:38
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Quasi Gods, in the book the FR gods during 2e, and maybe 3e in the section on deity ranks, the childern of gods are Quasi-Gods, one step below demigods. They are partially divine, but not powerful enough to grant spells, or anything like that. They just have a stat boost and maybe a few minor powers.
There are two Solars in Corellon Larethian service that some elves concider demigods, might be examples of two Solar's with divine parentage. |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 03:29:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Quasi Gods, in the book the FR gods during 2e, and maybe 3e in the section on deity ranks, the childern of gods are Quasi-Gods, one step below demigods. They are partially divine, but not powerful enough to grant spells, or anything like that. They just have a stat boost and maybe a few minor powers.
The term quasi-god has been used to describe some -very- different creatures in 2e and 3e.
2e for instance discussed Apomps the Triple-Aspected as a "quasi-power" ('power' being the term used for gods in Planescape), but Apomps was very clearly powerful above and beyond what 3e described quasi-gods as, plus he granted spells, plus he had an entire race of outsiders as literal extensions of himself (demodands/gehreleths), though his power was considerably restricted in some ways (confined to Carceri).
Other 2e uses may not have considered one another when using the term, and 3e made it something entirely different altogether. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 05:38:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Byte Man
quote:
In the Forgotten Realms, gods having children is a rare event. There are only two confirmed cases I can think of off of my head, Bright Nydra (born of Selune and Shaundakul) & Iyachtu Xvim (born of Bane and a marilith demon). Iyachtu was not an Infernal, but a particularly powerful half-fiend and Bright Nydra was a demi-god.
You seem to be forgetting the whole Bhaalspawn saga, which has been confirmed canon. And let's not forget, with goddesses like Sune and Sharess, who knows HOW many progeny arerunning around with Divine Level 0?
I wasn't forgetting Bhaalspawn but, according to Dragon magazine, Bhaalspawn was a template, not a race and no bhaalspawn ever had a divine rank.
Sune and Sharess having children is an interesting line of thought but I don't recall them ever having any kids mentioned. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 06:56:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Well Heironeous(a god associated with paladins from Oerth) has a half celestial daughter, imprisoned by Dispater. Dicefreaks created a counterpart to Infernals, celestial/deity offspring called Galaxars, continuing on the Astral Deva-Planetar-Solar astral theme.
http://dicefreaks.freeforums.org/galaxar-stats-old-t10.html
Wow thanks dude, I feel validated! :) |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 06:58:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Mordukhaver is supposedly the offspring between Tiamat and one of the dark 8, not sure if he's canon, but he's described as an abomination even though they are similiar alignments. I can't really remember, but didn't he make a brief appearance in "Elminster in Hell?" When Mystra invaded?
http://creaturecatalog.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=929
He was the spawn of Tiamat and Cantrum (see the last print issue of Dragon). As for being an abomination, the word was used in the general sense of meaning, not the ELH sense. That was the intent at least.
Yeah you're probably correct , but you have to admit Mordukhaver does fit the bill perfectly as an infernal abomination... |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 09:05:44
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my best guess to what you want is
Nephalem..... whether or not it is in 3.x I dunno, but it is in pathfinder |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2014 : 23:41:53
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanz
Yeah you're probably correct , but you have to admit Mordukhaver does fit the bill perfectly as an infernal abomination...
I actually wrote the portion of that article that covers Tiamat (a few other classic villains in there as well). While I couldn't go into detail in such a short piece, I tried to draw some connections between various 1e/2e/3e sources on Tiamat, some named consorts of hers, and some named offspring.
The abomination terminology in the ELH never really saw airtime outside of that book, and without the implicit in-setting linkage and prior usage in canon material I didn't want to define Mordukhaver or others by that new term (especially when he has some really nice earlier material covering him).
Fwiw. :) |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2014 : 18:58:59
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| Sharess had a son, Selvertarm with the Drow God of thieves. I believe many of the Aasmir in Mulhorand and Surrounding areas are descended from her. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2014 : 08:16:03
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Sharess+Vhaeraun goes under the same category as Hiatea+Othea or Gruumsh+Luthic, i.e. two gods mating.
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SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Topic |
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Offspring between a God and Celestial
