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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Feb 2014 : 01:10:16
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Just thought these two references interesting. Yeah, I know, its not the same people (the two are separate entities)..... but might we have made some assumptions in our translations of old history about who did what... you know, like what happened with the Cult of the Dragon and all. You know, something like we saw "the hidden one" and people naturally assumed Ao.... when it was the being that the Rashemi are worshipping (who in 3rd edition was being aliased by Midnight/Mystra).
From 4th edition campaign setting
Yet before the world was torn completely asunder, the Hidden One intervened. Lord Ao created a twin of the planet, granting the primordial dominion over the new world of Abeir and the gods
control over the original world of Toril.
From 2nd edition Spellbound campaign setting
Worship of #147;The Three#148; (Chauntea, Mielikki, and Mystra) is strong in Rashemen, but the Rashemaar refer to these goddesses by other names. (Chauntea is often called Bhalla, Mielikki is known as Khelliara, and Mystra as the Hidden One.) They also venerate a host of local place-spirits, spirit-heroes, and demigods little known elsewhere in Faerūn.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2014 : 01:23:11
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Just to add more fuel to the fire. From Netheril: Empire of Magic
Mystryl
Greater Power of Limbo#130; CN
PORTFOLIO: Magic, spells, the weave, wizards, spellcasters, energy, creativity, knowledge, invention, song, time, spring
TITLES: The Lady of Mysteries, the Muse, the Mother of All Magic, Our Lady of Spells, the Hidden One
Also to note the spellplague happening when "the hidden one" was killed while in her deific form (not an avatar... and actually killed, not what happened when Mystryl lost control for a couple seconds and then absorbed a young woman into the weave after Karsus' Folly). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2014 : 03:20:22
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In that first quote, why does 'The Hidden One' have to be Ao? Yes, it most-likely was meant to be Ao, but it doesn't necessarily HAVE TO be that way. For example -
"The Hidden One intervened (and then ran and got Ao). Lord Ao created a twin of the planet, granting... yadda yadda yadda..."
There is another way to spin it... a way that would probably piss some people off, but it would explain a few things, like how Mystra can be so all-powerful.
What if Mystra is an self-aware Avatar (what I've dubbed an Ubertar) of Ao? She is the aspect of the Overgod that is 'in charge' of the Weave. By taking a tiny piece of his essence (The Weave) and bestowing it upon a mortal, he creates the being that is Mystryl/Mystra.
Then we could even extrapolate further, and say that 'The Earth Mother', Fate (AQ), the Celestial Emperor, and Maztica are all aspects off Ao (along with others we don't even know about). In fact, Ao himself may actually be an aspect of this mysterious 'Hidden One' (the aspect in-charge of keeping the deities in-line). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Feb 2014 03:25:36 |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2014 : 10:01:14
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| When shade came back to toril they called Shar the hidden one. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2014 : 17:57:57
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| Yeah, there could be several spins on it. For instance, what if when the tearfall happened is somehow when Mystryl was split our from Selune and Shar (i.e. we have a large portion of the "moon" being torn out and hurled ... possibly in reaction to something being performed at the hill of the seven lost gods utilizing the power of the weave against the "Drifting Stars" according to the entry in GHotR page 48 on Kisonrathiisar.... which those stars may have been drifting because the world was being twinned already and the people didn't understand that it was already in motion (noting that the sarrukh note a changing of the stars) ). Then who in that case was the hidden one that intervened and did Mystryl inherit the title from that one? Or, as you suppose, is Mystryl some kind of "sub" aspect of Ao.... or is Ao some kind of collection of godly energy. Anyway, just thought it was interesting enough to mention and see where it goes. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2014 : 20:36:21
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well, since Mystryl and Shar are/were 'two sides of the same coin' (so to speak), then each could be half of 'The Hidden One', and THO actually best translates as "the fundamental forces of the universe".
Its almost an arcane/Realmsian term for 'physics'.
Thus Ao becomes the aspect (force) that is in-charge of keeping the deities in-line (in other words, he is the force that keeps the other forces balanced, if gods actually represented the fundamental forces/concepts they embody).
Which would make the concept of 'The Hidden One' (in MY theory) much like The Adama of the Shining Lands, or the Brahma religion of the east (that all gods are part of some greater 'cosmic force').
Or we could just ask THO... she should know.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Feb 2014 20:37:05 |
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Thorn Illance
Seeker
53 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2014 : 22:10:02
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Why would Shar and Mystryl be considered 'two sides of the same coin'?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
well, since Mystryl and Shar are/were 'two sides of the same coin' (so to speak), then each could be half of 'The Hidden One', and THO actually best translates as "the fundamental forces of the universe".
Its almost an arcane/Realmsian term for 'physics'.
Thus Ao becomes the aspect (force) that is in-charge of keeping the deities in-line (in other words, he is the force that keeps the other forces balanced, if gods actually represented the fundamental forces/concepts they embody).
Which would make the concept of 'The Hidden One' (in MY theory) much like The Adama of the Shining Lands, or the Brahma religion of the east (that all gods are part of some greater 'cosmic force').
Or we could just ask THO... she should know.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2014 : 22:52:17
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The whole 'Weave' and 'Shadow Weave' thing.
Although it really should be Shar and Selune - thats one of the many oddities of the setting. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2014 : 00:44:18
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on that note, it should also be noted I guess that the witches of Rashemen had the "the hidden one" role taken over by Selune after the spellplague. They notate the "House of the Three" and still have the original 2, but Mystra is replaced by Selune.
From 4th edition FR Campaign Setting
The House of the Three, in which Chauntea, Mielikki, and Selūne are worshiped as the Rashemi pantheon, has a central garden court open to the sky.
From Spellbound prior to the spellplague
Worship of The Three (Chauntea, Mielikki, and Mystra) is strong in Rashemen, but the Rashemaar refer to these goddesses by other names. (Chauntea is often called Bhalla, Mielikki is known as Khelliara, and Mystra as the Hidden One.) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Hidden One
