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Red Marauder
Acolyte
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 20:15:00
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Its likely you cannnot answer this for me yet but il take a shot, will the short story in Dragon magazine relating to Elaith after he awakened his moonblade likely to be in your anthology??
Thanks in advance for any reply!! |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 04:50:42
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Well met, Red Marauder!
It would appear that all of my Dragon Magazine stories will be in the anthology, with the possible exception of "Stolen Dreams," which is a retelling of the basic story of "Speaking with the Dead" (Realms of Mystery) from Isabeau Thione's point of view.
I have already sent the files for these stories* to Phil Athans, the project editor. New stuff (there will be at least one new story) is due by the first of May.
* DRAGON Magazine, Issue #246: "The Great Hunt" (April, 1998)
DRAGON Magazine, Issue #259: "Stolen Dreams" (May, 1999)
DRAGON Magazine, Issue #282: "Possessions" (April, 2001)
DRAGON Magazine, Issue #335, "Games of Chance" (August, 2005) |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 17 Feb 2006 05:09:25 |
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Feanor
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 09:39:46
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Warning :
SPOILERS
RELATED
TO
EVERMEEET
ISLAND
OF
THE
ELVES
AHEAD !
Hello. I have a question for Mrs.Elaine Cunningham, not about FR lore, but about a literature issue. In Evermeet:Island of the Elves there is a moment when Zaor is placed in a no-win position, having to relinquish either kingship, either his love. Here is the sequence :
quote:
Amlaruil sat silently as the Gold elf matron herded the others from the pavilion, as relentlessly and efficiently as a Craulnober hound might drive a flock of northland sheep from a pasture.
"She knows," the mage said simply when at last she and Zaor were alone. "She knows, and does not approve."
"Lady Durothil has been High Councilor for many years," Zaor said hastily. "She knows how the noble clans will respond to news of our love. She has spent a lifetime dealing with the nobles and their small intrigues."
"Which only give more weight to her opinion."
"It doesn't matter. None of it matters." Zaor covered the distance between them in a few steps and took both of her cold hands in his. "Amlaruil, we made a pledge to each other. Whatever happens, I intend to honor that! There can be no one for me but you."
Amlaruil’s gaze was sad, but steady. "If you refuse this alliance with Amarillis, war among the clans—the very threat that the moonblades were intended to forestall—seems possible. Even if you rule in peace, offending Amarillis will almost certainly ensure the failure of the very task for which you were chosen: bringing unity to the elves. You must understand that clan Amarillis forms both a link and a buffer between Moon elves and Gold. Without Amarillis, you might as well take scepter and crown and place them directly into Durothil hands."
Gently, she slipped her fingers from Zaor's grasp. "The gods have chosen you as Evermeet's king. They have chosen me to help you, and so I must."
The Grand Mage of the Towers went down on her knees before the appalled elf. "I pledge my personal allegiance, as well as all the power of the Towers of the Sun and the Moon, to Zaor, King of Evermeet, and to Lydi'aleera his queen. May you both live long, and reign well." Tears sparkled in her eyes, but her voice was firm.
Before Zaor could speak, Amlaruil disappeared. Only a faint silver sparkle of magic in the air, and the tiny mark of two fallen tears upon the earthen floor of the pavilion, betrayed that she had ever been there at all.
The Moon elf warrior dashed from the tent, looking frantically about for a glimpse of Amlaruil's beautiful red-gold hair among the crowds of elves. She was nowhere to be seen.
Lady Durothil came forward and grasped him by his forearms, her eyes searching his stricken face. Relief and sympathy mingled on her countenance. "You have chosen well," she said gently.
"I did not choose at all!" he blurted out. For a moment, the Moon elf's loss and heartache was naked in his eyes.
"The Lady of the Towers has acted with honor," Lady Durothil said softly. "And she has taken the worst burden—the burden of choice—from your shoulders. She did what she must, and now so must you."
Zaor was silent for a long moment. "I have always heard that the sacrifices demanded of those who would lead can be great. Had I any idea of what would be required of me, I would have wanted no part of this!" he said passionately.
My question is : what is the literary purpose of that sequence ? I shall elaborate : such crucial moments do have a purpose in the story. Often the main characters are offered this choice "duty or love" and the purpose is to create a no-win situation, to emphasize the value of the main character. The idea is that you can't have everything and you have to sacrifice something. Some sacrifice their duty, some sacrifice their love and both cathegories can be admired. Those who go for love fall into the cathegory of "people who give a crown for their love", those who go for their duty fall into the cathegory of "people who put the well-being of their people before their personal desires". Both are heroic in their ways, because making a sacrifice is one of the most certain paths to heroism.
In case of Zaor, it seems that love was to be sacrificed to emphasize that Zaor was indeed fit to rule. But when I saw Zaor and Amlaruil, some pages later, frolicking together, well, my chin hit the floor. Literally. First of all, I really don't understand why was the need for all that dramatic tension in the quoted sequence if Zaor, in the end, did not sacrifice anything. The decision of putting Zaor and Amlaruil back together practically voided the previous sacrifice, making it worthless.
Second, the way Zaor received back his love was most unfortunate. The point is that Zaor is depicted as an exceptional character, the one chosen by the gods to rule, yet from the way his sentimental problems were dealt with he resulted as an "ugly" character, at least for me. First, I was struck by his reaction when he is confronted with the choice, reaction which seemed to lack the dignity which should be seen in a king, not to mention that he needed Amlaruil to tell him what to do. But, ok, I can accept that it was not an easy choice and I can understand that Zaor was at a loss. But, in the end, I finished the book in simpathy with Lydi'aleera and hating Zaor with passion.  Why ? Well, first, what I already said, that Zaor has his love back by cheating on his wife. I was quite shocked at such a decision : no matter how many arguments about the fact that his marriage was forced upon him are brought, a king is still supposed to uphold the law and I still have to find a society where adultery is regarded as something commendable, no matter the circumstances. And it is not only this : second, there is also the way Amlaruil is proclaimed queen and Zaor's wife, only 10 minutes after the death of her predecessor, with her ash nearby. I shall express my opinion with a smilie :  . And the third reason is the constant bashing of Lydi'aleera in the book, although her fall was a result of Zaor's carelessness and her brother's manipulations. It's not an easy thing to live with a man who does not show her any affection and brings the children of his mistress in her home, yet she is denied any understanding. |
Edited by - Feanor on 17 Feb 2006 10:03:07 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 11:22:56
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Hi, Feanor,
Sorry the characters didn't work for you. After reading your post, I'm not sure there's anything I can add that would be of relevance to you.
I will point out, however, the concept of "point of view." A story could be told many times through the eyes of various characters, and each time it would look quite different. |
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Feanor
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 12:20:17
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Mod edit:
Elaine's told me she didn't find anything wrong with this, so I'm going to return Feanor's original post.
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Hi, Feanor,
Sorry the characters didn't work for you. After reading your post, I'm not sure there's anything I can add that would be of relevance to you.
I will point out, however, the concept of "point of view." A story could be told many times through the eyes of various characters, and each time it would look quite different.
Fine with me. But 2 observations I still have to make (for you to consider them for future products) :
1. I think the characters did not work out for me because the book insisted too much on their perfection. They were somehow regarded as a kind of elvish apostles, without any flaws. This is a risky decision, because, when a book goes to the extreme in insisting how great a character is, there is enough one single mistake or questionable attitude from that character for the previous compliments to backfire and make the character look bad. To give an example : for Zaor, the questionable situation is his adultery, for Amlaruil the adultery and her ascension to the throne which, giving the circumstances when it occurs, it creates the impression that Amlaruil is stepping on the corpse of Lydi'aleera to reach kingship.
2. Second, and the most important, the book insists too much on Amlaruil's perfection. Just one quotation : "Amlaruil is not the queen of Evermeet. Amlaruil is Evermeet." This is just one example and I would object to such a statement. IMO, it is quite diminishing for the elves of Evermeet, because, if a civilization has come to depend on a single personality, then it is something wrong with that civilization. My point is that there are so many compliments towards Amlaruil that it starts to seem like a personality cult.
That is all I had to say.
Take care. |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Feb 2006 15:14:48 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 13:33:37
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Again, the "perfection" of Zaor and Amlaruil is very much a matter of perception. I certainly didn't view either character in that light; indeed, their complicated relationship was intended, in part, to portray them as being (for lack of a better word) more "human."
I didn't mean to blow off your comments, and I hope you didn't read my response as such, but long experience has taught me that it's usually best to let the books speak for themselves. Also, I did read the other EVERMEET thread, and most of the issues raised seemed to be a matter of personal viewpoint. If a someone feels that a character who has a sexual relationship outside of marriage is tarnished beyond redemption, there's not much room for discussion. I'm a former history teacher, so I could name enough royal (and papal) mistresses and illegitimate offspring to challenge the notion that adultery carried a death sentence in medieval Europe--at least, where kings were concerned. But this argument, too, speaks to a particular viewpoint. Obviously you feel strongly about this matter; in such cases, there is little point in discussion. I grew up in a conservative fundamentalist environment, and I understand that certain issues can become a very powerful lens.
While I respect your viewpoint and have no desire to change it, perhaps a bit of backstory might add another facet to the characterizations. EVERMEET is, at heart, an Arthurian novel. The ordeal by sword, the otherwise great king whose personal life is, shall we say, less than straightforward, the legendary queen. Amlaruil reflects elements of both Gwenevere and Morgan le Fey. She is the magic-wielding kinswoman who owns the king's first love and bears his child, but she is also the true queen, and she was recognized as such at her first meeting with Zaor.
So when Zaor was confronted by Amarillis demands, his conflict was based on a series of moral dilemnas, not simply upon the love he and Amlaruil shared. She'd already been acknowledged by his moonblade. They were already joined in a very deep sense--the moral and spiritual equivalent of marriage. Ceding to Amarillis demands and marrying Lydi'aleera was not only a violation of this union--moral bigamy--but also a repudiation of the moonblade's acknowledgement of Amlaruil. The moonblades' purpose was to recognize a royal family, and it was abandantly clear that this purpose had been achieved. The Amarillis demands subverted the process. But no canny politician would make such a demand unless he could back it with powerful support and a legal loophole that lent a certain legitimacy to his demands. Zaor felt that no matter what he decided, he would be betraying Evermeet in one sense or another. It was a difficult decision for many reasons, not just because he loved Amlaruil.
So it was Amlaruil who made the decision, and it is my opinion that she made a mistake--an opinion that was tacitly reinforced throughout the rest of the book. She was Evermeet's queen, but she turned away from her duty and destiny in a tragic, impulsive decision. Amlaruil was pregnant at the time, and any woman who's ever dealt with the first-trimester emotional roller coaster was probably nodding in recognition when she read that passage. But this goes beyond hormones: Amlaruil was proud. She wanted Zaor to choose her for herself, not for the child she carried, and her pride caused her to overreact. I think Amlaruil is a great queen, but she is far from perfect. She went a little nuts in her grief over Zaor's assassination: she exiled her own daughter, ordered that the moonblade Amnestria carried be dismantled (tampering with an artifact is a HUGE no-no...), and carried a potentially lethal grudge against her half-elven granddaughter, Arilyn Moonblade.
Zaor had reason to be wary of Lydi-aleera, first from the first. She and her brother declined to undergo the test of the moonblade; instead, they used blackmail to achieve royalty. It's LEGAL to decline a moonblade, but it's very much like "taking the fifth:" there's a presumption of guilt involved. If someone doesn't attempt to claim a family moonblade, the assumption is that he (or she) is pretty sure he won't live to brag about it. Big strike against her right there. Lydi-aleera was hardly a shy, demure elfmaiden. Her conversation with her brother showed that she was hardly under his thumb, and was every bit as manipulative and ambitious as he. She cared so little for Zaor that she was willing to let him die rather than warn him of danger. She blackmailed Zaor into marrying her and blackmailed Amlaruil into providing a love potion. She committed rape through magical means, and in the process, caused a noble elf to act so greatly against his conscience that he took his own life in remorse. She was willing to risk the almost certain death of her son against the very slight chance of covering her own ass and concealing her lies. Zaor never spoke of his life with Lydi-aleera, but his silence indicated that her private conduct was more of the same. Zaor quickly realized that a mistake had been made; he didn't "withhold affection" from Lydi-aleera so much as try to ensure that the offspring of such an elfwoman would not inherit Evermeet's throne.
As for the quote about "Amlaruil IS Evermeet," this was not intended to be a statement of fact. It's the sort of hyperbolic compliment commonly used in talking about royalty. Read some of the courtly verse dedicated to Elizabeth I, and you'll have a better idea of the context.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 17 Feb 2006 13:41:29 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 13:35:56
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| Sage, for what it's worth, I had no problems with Feanor's response. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 14:31:01
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I'll have to confess that I didn't find Amlaruil and Zaor in particular that memorable, either, but I think your explanation's given a good context to their behavior.
Besides, the difference of viewpoint and the hint that Amlaruil's not perfect have been very much implied by her treatment of Arilyn. (And, for that matter, Arilyn's attitude toward her -- I recall that she was perversely glad when her declaration as Amlaruil's ambassador to the wood elves in Silver Shadows wasn't received so readily, since those elves weren't exactly in abject awe of the queen. Or Arilyn's eye-rollingesque remark when the good captain in the same book goes googly-eyed at the very mention of Amlaruil. Heh.) |
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Feanor
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 15:00:41
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Mrs.Cunningham, first let me say that it was a great response. After this, I really wonder why you said "I'm not sure there's anything I can add that would be of relevance to you", because you did added something which was indeed of GREAT relevance. Your answer clarifies indeed many questions.  Between you and me, maybe this should appear in the book that readers would not draw wrong conclusions about the characters.
quote:
Again, the "perfection" of Zaor and Amlaruil is very much a matter of perception. I certainly didn't view either character in that light; indeed, their complicated relationship was intended, in part, to portray them as being (for lack of a better word) more "human."
As I said, this is how I perceived them. More precisely, I did not view them as perfect, but I remained with the impression that Evermeet tried to depict them as such. Taking Zaor as example : the idea with this stuff about the moonblades is that they were meant to choose the most worthy ruler, yet Zaor did not strike me as much different from any good aligned elf. After all, why Zaor and not Elanjar Craulnober Keryth Blackhelm or Belstram Durothil ? What I meant by "Zaor was depicted as perfect" is the fact that the moonblades' choice pointed towards him, yet I do not see that he was better than any of those 3 characters I mentioned. But, from what you said, it seems it was not your intention to present Zaor as the embodiement of elvish perfection and my initial impression was wrong.
quote:
If a someone feels that a character who has a sexual relationship outside of marriage is tarnished beyond redemption, there's not much room for discussion. But this argument, too, speaks to a particular viewpoint. Obviously you feel strongly about this matter; in such cases, there is little point in discussion.
You misunderstood me. My point was that the idea of Lydi'aleera commiting adultery was chastised (as example, think of Shanyrria considered her deed treason against the crown), while Zaor's adultery was not. That is why I used the words "different standards". But your comments about Lydi'aleera clarified this issue.
quote:
I'm a former history teacher, so I could name enough royal (and papal) mistresses and illegitimate offspring to challenge the notion that adultery carried a death sentence in medieval Europe--at least, where kings were concerned.
I'm also a history student, so you have with whom to talk.  First, I want to emphasize that I said in SOME societies, not in all of them. The mongol code, for instance, Iassa, punishes adultery by death. The islamic law, Shar'ia, punishes adultery by death and, unfortunately, does that even today. The jewish law as well. And others. Certainly, this laws did not apply to the kings because there was no one who could judge them, but there was still against the law.
Second, what you say is true, but I want to remind you of the consequences. If that ruler was not a very strong personality, usually his affairs had disastrous consequences. Some examples :
- in 1314, Margaret of France, wife of the future king Lewis X-th, was caught cheating on her husband and she was sentenced to prison for life by king Philip the Fair (1285-1314) ; two years later, her husband Lewis X died ; he had only one heir, a daughter, Jeanne ; and there was a problem : no one could tell if she was indeed the daughter of the king. So, what to do ? Finally, the solution found by the Council of Pairs was to remove all women from the succession to the throne. There was no problem until 1328 : at that moment, Charles V, the last of the legitimate sons of Philip the Fair, died and there was no male heir ; there were 2 pretenders : the future Philip VI, his cousin, and Edward III of England, his nephew. But the connection of Edward III to the crown of France was his mother, Isabelle, and women had no hold to the crown of France. Yet Edward III did not give up and this led to the first phase of the one hundred years wars, between 1337 and 1360. What is the point : if Margaret of France had kept her hormones in check, the rights of her daughter to the throne would have never been questioned, thus the need for sundering the women from the throne would have not appeared and the wars for the crown of France would not have happened. Other examples :
- Marc Anthony's affair with Cleopatra rekindled the civil war in Rome, exactly when peace was about to come, due to his marriage with Octavian's sister ;
- Lewis XIV revoked the law of Nantes in 1685 under the influence of his mistress, Madame de Maintenon ;
- Lewis XV's affairs greatly contributed to the decrease of the prestige of the monarchy in France ;
- among the popes, Alexander VI : and the consequences are that there is no pope more disliked than him in the history of the church ; not to mention that his behaviour was one of the factors which contributed to the discreditting of the Church and to Luther's Reform.
My problem, when I first raised this issue, was not with Zaor the person, but with Zaor the King. Because, as a history student, I've seen many cases when kings could not control their passions and their people paid for it.
quote:
So when Zaor was confronted by Amarillis demands, his conflict was based on a series of moral dilemnas, not simply upon the love he and Amlaruil shared. She'd already been acknowledged by his moonblade. They were already joined in a very deep sense--the moral and spiritual equivalent of marriage. Ceding to Amarillis demands and marrying Lydi'aleera was not only a violation of this union--moral bigamy--but also a repudiation of the moonblade's acknowledgement of Amlaruil. The moonblades' purpose was to recognize a royal family, and it was abandantly clear that this purpose had been achieved. The Amarillis demands subverted the process.
Good points. The fact that Zaor does not mention this issues is quite misleading, making him look quite weak. A pity they are not uttered by the main character, because, indeed, what you said above truly shows Zaor as he was supposed to be. But on the other hand, I wonder why Zaor did not hand his sword to Amlaruil at that moment. If she was accepted by the Moonblade in front of all gathered elves, that should have shut Mondagor's mouth.
quote:
It's LEGAL to decline a moonblade, but it's very much like "taking the fifth:" there's a presumption of guilt involved. If someone doesn't attempt to claim a family moonblade, the assumption is that he (or she) is pretty sure he won't live to brag about it
True about Mondagor, but was Lydi'aleera in her rights to claim a moonblade ? A moonblade would kill even if you are worthy, but you are not the rightful heir, and she had no moonblade to claim. She could not claim Zaor's moonblade and neither Mondagor's moonblade, because both belonged to their heirs, the offspring of Zaor and Mondagor.
quote:
Zaor quickly realized that a mistake had been made; he didn't "withhold affection" from Lydi-aleera so much as try to ensure that the offspring of such an elfwoman would not inherit Evermeet's throne.
This is just a personal viewpoint, but if Lydi'aleera was evil, what this has to do with her offspring ? Maybe I'm biased because I'm not a big fan of heredity.
quote:
As for the quote about "Amlaruil IS Evermeet," this was not intended to be a statement of fact. It's the sort of hyperbolic compliment commonly used in talking about royalty. Read some of the courtly verse dedicated to Elizabeth I, and you'll have a better idea of the context.
True, but I mentioned this because I took this in the context of the novel and from the novel I had the impression that the elves rely too much on Amlaruil. Yes, Amlaruil reminds me of Elizabeth I, but I think I'm subjective on this matter, because I would not like to depend THAT much on our ruler. If one goes down, we'll have another. |
Edited by - Feanor on 17 Feb 2006 17:06:14 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 15:13:17
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Sage, for what it's worth, I had no problems with Feanor's response.
As long as you're okay with it Elaine... I'll return it .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 17:46:38
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Feanor,
I think one of the problems you have here is that you are basing Evermeet on Earth's history when FR is not Earth and it doesn't have Earth's morals and laws, etc. And thus adultry in FR is not based on Earth's history for its laws and consequences. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Feanor
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2006 : 20:13:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Feanor,
I think one of the problems you have here is that you are basing Evermeet on Earth's history when FR is not Earth and it doesn't have Earth's morals and laws, etc. And thus adultry in FR is not based on Earth's history for its laws and consequences.
Well, there were some hints in Evermeet which pointed the contrary. But anyway, the answer was given, it was very good, so let's not hijack the thread. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 22:32:17
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Elaine, I hate to say it, but I have to agree (mostly) with Feanor's assessment of Amlaruil and Zaor--and I've mentioned similar comments in the novels forum. I just did not care for these characters, and like Feanor I felt like there was a double standard being imposed. I'm not saying it was supposed to be there, but that is what I felt. Amlaruil lacked the fire, spirit, and poignancy of, say, Anarzee, the Moonflower woman who has to make a real sacrifice and become a sea elf. I thought her story was much more interesting and touching.
As for the adultery issue...I'm not a person who believes that one is "forever tarnished" if one commits adultery. However, what puzzled me about the situation was, if Amlaruil is still having sex with Zaor and bearing children with him, then what kind of "sacrifice" did she make? I just fail to see what is so tragic about her self-imposed sacrifice if it exists in name only. I have thought before about whether or not Amlaruil was truly married to Zaor in spirit before Zaor married Lydi'aleera. However, if their "spiritual marriage" is what counts, they why wouldn't the elves of Evermeet recognize it? Surely they would look upon moral bigamy as something evil, so what's the point of a formal, ceremonial marriage to Lydi'aleera if Zaor was technically already married? Also, while I'm no radical feminist, I was scratching my head when Lydi'aleera is refered to as a "whore", among a list of other (more valid things). Firstly, I have to wonder if Lydi'aleera's sexual activities would have been mentioned if she were male (this is a nitpick, I'll admit, but it's something I've noticed as a human being, not just as a reader). Second...well, I could say Amlaruil was an adulterer herself, even if she didn't do evil things in the end like Lydi'aleera did.
As for Zaor--I was not impressed with him, either. I would appreciate it much if you would help me understand what the point was of Zaor and his friends (I forgot what the name of that one friend was) picking a fight with the group of gold elves. That didn't raise my opinion of Zaor, but perhaps I missed the point. I didn't care for the moonblades either. I prefer to root for heroes who shape their own destiny by the choices they make, not heroes who have a destiny bequeathed to them by a magic item (or the gods, or what have you). I also was troubled by the fact that moonblades can destroy an elf outright--that seems very cruel and wasteful for a supposedly benevolent magical item.
For the most part I love your work, Elaine, but this particular novel rubbed me the wrong way. Please don't take my comments personally. I have a history of feeling sorry for characters who don't deserve it, as well...I'm the type who feels sympathy for Cain, of Cain and Abel fame.
Take care,
RF
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"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 23:34:34
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Rinonalyrna, I certainly don't take your comments personally. Some of my best friends and family members don't read my work at all, as they simply don't like fantasy novels. If I don't take THAT personally, I'm surely not going to be offended when a reader comments that a character or even a novel simply didn't work for her.
That said, I'm going to pass on explaining the whys and wherefors of EVERMEET. If the story didn't stand on its own, nothing I say here is likely to change your opinion. For that matter, I don't think that changing someone's opinion is always a worthwhile goal. You've stated your opinions and objectives very well, and most of them boil down to personal preference. And hey--you're entitled. Sometimes too much explanation and backstory can come across as trying to brush aside opinions and reactions as somehow "wrong" or invalid.
I hope you'll find the next story more to your tastes, but I look forward to hearing your opinions regardless. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this particular book. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 21 Feb 2006 11:51:21 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2006 : 23:47:15
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*nods* All right, you're welcome. Thank you for hearing me out, as well. It feels good to get some of these quibbles off my chest. In any case, I do very much look forward to your next FR book.
Take care,
RF |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 20 Feb 2006 23:47:33 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 01:47:15
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
That said, I'm going to pass on explaining the whys and wherefors of EVERMEET. If the story didn't stand on its own, nothing I say here is likely to change your opinion. For that matter, I don't think that changing someone's opinion is always a worthwhile goal. You've stated your opinions and objectives very well, and most of them boil down to personal preference. And hey--you're entitled. Sometimes too much explanation and backstory can come across as trying to brush aside opinions and reactions as somehow "wrong" or invalid.
I'd have to agree with that Elaine... Evermeet works best when you "discover" it on your own.
Rinonalyrna, Elaine has discussed some of her thoughts and feelings about Evermeet previously here at Candlekeep. If you perform a search here, you'll likely find the relevant scrolls. Or simply look through the compiled replies at the URL on Kuje's sig for past comments Elaine has posted about the novel in question.
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Feanor
Learned Scribe
100 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2006 : 13:09:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
*nods* All right, you're welcome. Thank you for hearing me out, as well. It feels good to get some of these quibbles off my chest. In any case, I do very much look forward to your next FR book.
Take care,
RF
One observation I have to make : there is the distinct possibility that the book is written from the perspective of one of Amlaruil's subject.
Although Elaine uses a third-person approach, through Danilo Thann, there is a mention in the book that Danilo sent his work to be revised by one of the queen's scribes. If that is the case, I don't think you need to look farther for an explanation why Amlaruil and Zaor's mistakes are overlooked.
Most elves in the Realms, especially the ones from Evermeet, simply fall head over heels when they hear the name of the queen.
But this is just one possible interpretation. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2006 : 00:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
That said, I'm going to pass on explaining the whys and wherefors of EVERMEET. If the story didn't stand on its own, nothing I say here is likely to change your opinion. For that matter, I don't think that changing someone's opinion is always a worthwhile goal. You've stated your opinions and objectives very well, and most of them boil down to personal preference. And hey--you're entitled. Sometimes too much explanation and backstory can come across as trying to brush aside opinions and reactions as somehow "wrong" or invalid.
I'd have to agree with that Elaine... Evermeet works best when you "discover" it on your own.
I don't doubt that. Don't get me wrong, I thought the book was, as a whole, well-written and had quite a few memorable stories and characters in it, it's just that some of the characters and ideas just didn't work for me. And I'm OK with that, I am content with the response Elaine gave me.
Thank you, Sage, for your comments as well. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 13:15:19
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I’ve a question:
You’ve mentioned a few times here and on your webpage that back in the “Harpers” era of novel writing that the folks at TSR were aiming at the authors producing characters that could be picked up by other authors and they would continue their plotlines. As is pointed out a few times, especially with Thornhold, this never really came to fruition.
Now that that particular plan seems to be scrapped, and you are going to gift us with another “Songs and Swords” book, how much freedom do you have to pick up these discarded characters (Bronwyn, Ebenezer Stoneshaft or even as minor as Kendal Leafblower, etc) and run with them?
Or would that be telling? ;)
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 14:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
... how much freedom do you have to pick up these discarded characters (Bronwyn, Ebenezer Stoneshaft or even as minor as Kendal Leafblower, etc) and run with them?
No one has ever told me I couldn't write about them. In fact, I'll probably deal with several of the characters from Thornholdin a new short story for the reprint anthology. No details are available quite yet, as plans for that anthology are still somewhat nebulous.
I doubt Kendal Leafbower ("Leafblower!" Hee hee...) will make another appearance. He and Jill are off adventuring, but their adventures are of the minor sort. I've frequently been surprised by the number of requests for more stories about Jill, who, though fun to write, was very much a one-trick pony. I don't think he'd be as well received now, since in the intervening time "dwarves as comic relief" has come to be regarded as a fantasy cliche. Also, the recent movie about Johnny Cash might lead more people to realize whence came the inspiration for Jill's name, and obvious real-world connections can be distracting. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 14:41:58
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
No one has ever told me I couldn't write about them. In fact, I'll probably deal with several of the characters from Thornholdin a new short story for the reprint anthology. No details are available quite yet, as plans for that anthology are still somewhat nebulous.
That’s good news, on two fronts: 1) Some resolution is going to be grand. 2) Since you are wrapping up a bunch of stuff (Thornhold, Song and Swords) this might actually free you up to take on something totally new. (Don’t think that means I want to stop reading about your established characters, just that I really liked when you struck out and did the Counselors & Kings.)
I love those reprint anthologies. I miss so many stories by not getting Dragon magazine. This is good news.
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I doubt Kendal Leafbower ("Leafblower!" Hee hee...) will make another appearance. He and Jill are off adventuring, but their adventures are of the minor sort. I've frequently been surprised by the number of requests for more stories about Jill, who, though fun to write, was very much a one-trick pony. I don't think he'd be as well received now, since in the intervening time "dwarves as comic relief" has come to be regarded as a fantasy cliche. Also, the recent movie about Johnny Cash might lead more people to realize whence came the inspiration for Jill's name, and obvious real-world connections can be distracting.
Now that you've commented on my mispelling, I can't go back and edit. :p (Sadly, until right now, I honestly thought it was Leafblower. Heh, I always disliked that last name. I’m glad I’ve been wrong for years.)
You've said as much about Jill before, and I agree. It's Kendal I'd like to see in action again. If you scroll back through this scroll, you will probably see that I’ve mentioned him to you before, as well as on the now defunct WotC board.
However, I am now going to make an "arrangement" with you *he says with a bad Italian accent*. If I don’t see some Kendall Leafbower, at least in passing sometime soon, I’m going to write him into some REALLY bad fanfiction where he is the ‘kick-ass elven sisterhood’s” boytoy. So there. :p
P.S. REALLY REALLY bad fanfiction.
:p
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 15:22:49
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| I think it could be fun to revisit minor characters. The problem is not the desire, but the lack of publishing opportunities. There aren't many outlets for FR short stories. Unless WotC decides to publish a "Realms of Second Bananas" anthology, I'm not sure where I'd place a short story about Kendal. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 15:28:42
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| That brings me to another question: If you were free to write whatever you wanted about (in the realms)and your only limit was existing canon and a reasonable editor (and not including projects you already have in the offical pipeline) what would you choose? |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 15:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
That brings me to another question: If you were free to write whatever you wanted about (in the realms)and your only limit was existing canon and a reasonable editor (and not including projects you already have in the offical pipeline) what would you choose?
Something completely different--I'd write a "caper" novel with Elaith Craulnober as the central character. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 18:03:59
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Something completely different--I'd write a "caper" novel with Elaith Craulnober as the central character.
Craulnober's Eleven has a nice ring as a title. |
Edited by - SiriusBlack on 02 Mar 2006 18:04:15 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 19:19:49
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Craulnober's Eleven has a nice ring as a title.
I suppose "Elaith's Eleven" is a bit too alliterative. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 02 Mar 2006 19:24:59 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 20:35:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Serpent's Eleven.
I'd buy it in a heartbeat. ^_^ Eliath with a whole group of specalist rogues? That would be such a blast. |
"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 20:37:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Serpent's Eleven.
Or perhaps, The Serpent's Sting? If you don't mind a bit of a pun mucking up your title... |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2006 : 20:40:59
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| Puns should be encouraged. I'd be a bit worried for said eleven though (unless it's the Manchester United starting-eleven at least *evil cackle*). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Questions for Elaine Cunningham
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