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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 00:45:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So, with no disrespect intended to anyone, I think the existence of the Starym moonblade must be accepted as established, canonical Realmslore. You are certainly free to do as you will within your own campaign, but the blade does exist.
As I see it now, it is a "former" Moonblade, much as Eric said in the other scroll Kuje alluded to above.
Quoted here for completeness -
quote:
Not to disagree, with the lovely Elaine, but in my opinion, as the creator of said Starym Moonblade, I would characterize it as a "former moonblade." It was a moonblade. Then it was corrupted by a god (Moander). Therefore, it's not really a moonblade any more, but obviously it is still referred to as such (and thinks of itself as such).
--Eric
PS FWIW, if I recall correctly, I developed the Starym Moonblade after Elaine created the concept of a moonblade in Elfshadow / Elfsong, but before she published Evermeet: A Novel. In fact, I may have created it while she was writing Evermeet. In any event, if I had seen her later most excellent Realmslore on moonblades in Evermeet, I might not have created it. Water under the bridge.
The whole "thinks of itself as such"... could lay the ground work for some realised errors in the internal Realmslore at play in the actual campaign -- in other words, lore than the PCs come across.
Details about the Starym Moonblade are complete enough for the PCs to assume the blade is still as it was before the corruption -- rather a pure Moonblade. They are simply not privy to the details about the time in which Illitran eliminated the character-test powers of the blade.
Other internal lore may actually relate more to Darkmoon, the blade as it is now... and therefore not really a Moonblade in the traditional sense -- thanks largely to Moander's influence. But when the PCs encounter it, they are left with conflicting details since the blade still thinks of itself as a Moonblade.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 00:57:43
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Elaine, I am currently desperately trying to think of something to ask you that has absolutely nothing to do with Moonblades, for fear that your increadibly creative head might explode . . . just what would Jack Bauer do to Volo anyway?
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 01:11:03
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Working in a shared-world setting requires flexibility, and time and again I've adapted to changing rules. But there comes a time when a concept has gone so far afield from your original idea that it is no longer "yours." If you can no longer work with it, the only thing to do is walk away. I think moonblades and I have come to a parting of the ways. I'll have to adjust the final Swords & Songs book accordingly.
::shrugs:: It happens. Bob Salvatore had planned to write a trilogy about the bladesinger Josidiah Starym, but when he discovered that the character introduced in a short story had been detailed in various game products, he realized the story was no longer his to tell.
Comes with the territory--one of the hazards of writing in a shared-world setting.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 09 Feb 2006 01:56:02 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 01:43:47
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Elaine, . . . just what would Jack Bauer do to Volo anyway?
Many of the same things Elaith Craulnober would do to Kymil Nimesin, if he were to catch up with that particular elf.  |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 01:53:13
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| You continue to remind me of my wife . . . she is a recent 24 addict . . . and we'll keep my facination with a certain petite female drow wizard between the two of us. Speaking of Liriel, any chance you might sneak her into a cameo in any upcoming work, even if you don't write a full blown Liriel story? |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 02:00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
You continue to remind me of my wife . . . she is a recent 24 addict . . . and we'll keep my facination with a certain petite female drow wizard between the two of us. Speaking of Liriel, any chance you might sneak her into a cameo in any upcoming work, even if you don't write a full blown Liriel story?
Afraid not. But there IS a possibility of a new short story in the upcoming "Best of ec" anthology. Phil Athans has indicated he'd like to squeeze as much stuff in the book as he can fit, so if I have time to write a second new story, there's a chance it might make it in.
But a cameo in the S&S#6 book, no.
Has your wife ever watched a season of 24 in real time? Gotta love those DVD whole-season releases! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 02:10:19
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She made it to about the 14 hour mark, then had to throw in the towel. But considering this is a woman that can never make it more that thrity minutes into a movie without falling asleep, that's really saying something.  |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 02:32:51
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
She made it to about the 14 hour mark, then had to throw in the towel.
Lightweight. 
It helps if you have weekend houseguests who are keen on the idea--you can't exactly doze off and leave them sitting there--and if you order indigestible food to be delivered regular intervals. The heartburn generated by Hawaiian pizza can keep you up a couple of extra hours. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 09 Feb 2006 15:07:45 |
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VonRaventheDaring
Learned Scribe
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 11:11:34
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Hello Elaine,
I have to say i love your books and your writting style is very good. I have to say though i like your approach to the surface elves better than your drow elf books, but thats just my personal taste. I do love Elaith Craulnober, and love all of the twists and turns that the serpent has for all his foes, and allies. I would love to see you try your hand at some other races though I notice almost no one rights about the gnomes, the forgotten folk of the forgotten realms. lol sorry that just ammuses me anyway I was wondering about the cliffhanger from Evermeet: Island of Elves and if you are planning on delveing in to that particular plot line at all.
Also did you enjoy writting the magehound series? I have to say it is amazing especially since you give us the first real glimpse of the nation of wizards. |
"Develop the latent abilities within you for that is your power alone. Psionics is the ultimate art of magic and you are its practitioner. Through lifelong dedication, strive to unite your will with your physical form to become one. Only through the unrestrained union of one’s mind and body can the magic of psionics truly be mastered. Throw off the yoke of any who would impose tyranny upon you. Likewise, do not ever force another to submit to your will. Free your mind, free yourself and you have only just begun the path to true psionic mastery. Free others, open their minds to the Invisible Art, and you will show them way to Auppenser."
---Dogma of the Church of Auppenser |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 15:05:07
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Hi, Von Raven. Thanks for the kind words.
Yes, the Halruaa trilogy was an interesting departure. I'd never written a trilogy before, so a big part of the challenge was figuring out how to write self-contained stories that would nonetheless fit into a larger story arc. It was definitely a learning experience, and one of the most important insights it yielded was how much I have yet to learn! I enjoyed writing Matteo's story. He was, to all intents and purposes, a paladin, but he had to muddle through the way the rest of us do: dealing with moral dilemnas and difficult choices.
You asked about future writing plans. There are no plans at this time to pick up the story told in EVERMEET. As for gnomes, I'm probably too tall to get into the right frame of mind, and since the last four books I wrote focused on elven characters (Windwalker; the two Changeling books: Shadows in the Darkness and Shadows in the Starlight; and The Blood-Red Harp, the EverQuest book), it may be that a break from elves is in order. I'd have to say that I'm more in a werewolf place these days.
What I DO plan to write is at least one new short story for inclusion in a collection of my Forgotten Realms short stories, and the sixth and final book in the Songs & Swords series. That's it. I'm not saying I WON'T write another FR story, just that there's nothing else under contract or discussion.
At present, I have several ongoing projects. Shadows in the Starlight, a contemporary mystery with dark fantasy elements and the second in a series by Tor books, was released in January, and I'm waiting to hear about plans for the third book. I finished revisions to the EverQuest novel, which is scheduled for a September release. This week I'm finishing up a 30,000-word novella for a four-author anthology of "paranormal romance." My story is a mystery with a romance subplot, featuring a woman who worked in the discontinued "Star Gate" program--a real-world government attempt at psychic spying. Once the first draft for that goes in, I'll be turning my full attention back to the historical novel I've been researching and writing for several years. I plan to get that wrapped up this month, then I'll get to work on FR stuff: the short stories and the Songs & Swords novel. The stories are due in late spring, the first draft is due in early 2007. I plan to do a writing blitz and turn it in several months early.
And that's pretty much my life between now and June. I have several projects in mind, but I'm not sure what I'll be working on next.
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2006 : 16:37:26
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quote:
the sixth and final book in the Songs & Swords series.
I am happy and yet sad at the same time about this bit of news. I look forward to your historical project when it ever gets finished! And I can't wait for the remote viewing book. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2006 : 21:52:14
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Well met, Elaine!
I wish to thank you for writing City of Splendors with Ed - it is simply fantastic!  I have admired your writing since Elfshadow but this joint effort (hopefully that is the correct term ;) with the Bearded One has produced a book that is filled with splendid details and paints a truly "splendorous" image how life is in Waterdeep. My deepest thanks, lady!
On the other hand, I have to blame you a bit for sleepless nights and sleeping at work (which is generally considered inappropriate behaviour for a librarian) |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Starblade
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 06:24:33
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quote:
Originally posted by VonRaventheDaring
I would love to see you try your hand at some other races though I notice almost no one rights about the gnomes, the forgotten folk of the forgotten realms.
She did have minor gnome characters in Silver Shadows and the short story in Realms of Mystery. |
Edited by - Starblade on 15 Feb 2006 06:25:20 |
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Starblade
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 06:50:07
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Working in a shared-world setting requires flexibility, and time and again I've adapted to changing rules. But there comes a time when a concept has gone so far afield from your original idea that it is no longer "yours." If you can no longer work with it, the only thing to do is walk away. I think moonblades and I have come to a parting of the ways. I'll have to adjust the final Swords & Songs book accordingly.
That seems like an awfully harsh thing to do to Arilyn, striping her of her link to her mother and her last name in one fell swoop.
Oh well I'm sure Danilo will find some way to cheer her up. It's great that you're getting to write another novel with them after such a long time. It didn't look like another one was ever going to come out.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 12:49:45
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Hi, Asgetrion. Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you enjoyed City of Splendors.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 12:53:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Starblade
She did have minor gnome characters in Silver Shadows and the short story in Realms of Mystery.
"Speaking With The Dead" in Realms of Mystery is set in the Friendly Arms, a gnome-run tavern. In THORNHOLD, Bronwyn's shop, Curious Past, is run by a gnome. I don't recall a gnome in SILVER SHADOWS, but please don't let this stop you from reading the book! |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 12:59:05
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I don't recall a gnome in SILVER SHADOWS, but please don't let this stop you from reading the book!
Wasn't there Gnome potion-maker who was a bit quirky and tended to blow-things up? I seem to remember a character like this from one of the books but I'm not really sure which one. I seem to remember him crafting/brewing something for Arilyn, but I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read the novels. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 13:28:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Starblade
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Working in a shared-world setting requires flexibility, and time and again I've adapted to changing rules. But there comes a time when a concept has gone so far afield from your original idea that it is no longer "yours." If you can no longer work with it, the only thing to do is walk away. I think moonblades and I have come to a parting of the ways. I'll have to adjust the final Swords & Songs book accordingly.
That seems like an awfully harsh thing to do to Arilyn, striping her of her link to her mother and her last name in one fell swoop.
Oh well I'm sure Danilo will find some way to cheer her up. It's great that you're getting to write another novel with them after such a long time. It didn't look like another one was ever going to come out.
To qualify, Arilyn's sword has been acting up for some time. In this book, this issue will come to resolution. That's something that has been in the planning stages for a long, long time. I don't plan to abandon this.
But the moonblade lore has developed a life of its own, and some of the things I'd planned to do with it are no longer possible. I will definitely have to delete an intended subplot. While I'm not going to change Arilyn's relationship with her sword from the path I'd intended to take, I'm going to downplay the lore of moonblades in the overall story.
I'd also intended to do an extensive history of the moonblade page for my website, a reference for folks who are interested in the topic. Not sure this is a good plan.
::sigh:: But let me think this over. Right now my head's too deeply into other projects to think this issue through. It might be possible to adjust to the game lore. I've definitely made larger adaptations, such as when the 3E changes to rules on drow magic completely blew away the underlying premise of my first two Liriel books: her determination to bring her drow magic to the surface. The only reasonable way I could think of to deal with this was to write the rule changes into the plot. Maybe something could be done with the moonblade lore. At this point, my gut feeling is no.
A question: If the swords are so easy to subvert, why hasn't the entire elven nation risen in revolt against a royal family chosen by so fragile and corruptible a method?
Heh. Maybe there's a story hook in there.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 15 Feb 2006 13:52:25 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 13:33:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Bane
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I don't recall a gnome in SILVER SHADOWS, but please don't let this stop you from reading the book!
Wasn't there Gnome potion-maker who was a bit quirky and tended to blow-things up? I seem to remember a character like this from one of the books but I'm not really sure which one. I seem to remember him crafting/brewing something for Arilyn, but I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read the novels.
That would be Tinkersdam, and I can see where the confusion comes in. He's a human from Lantan with a gnome-like fascination for gizmos and potions that go BOOM. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 14:40:08
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I've definitely made larger adaptations, such as when the 3E changes to rules on drow magic completely blew away the underlying premise of my first two Liriel books: her determination to bring her drow magic to the surface. The only reasonable way I could think of to deal with this was to write the rule changes into the plot.
I sincerely hope that you don't feel bad about this, because I found the transition from Liriel's story and the rules changes wonderfully and seamlessly executed. If I didn't know better from reading your posts here, I would have thought that it was orchestrated rather than you dealing with the changes.
On a semi-related note, I got my fiancé to read Liriel’s story, and she burned through all three books in four days, loving every single second of it. She called from the bookstore, furious, wanting to know why she couldn’t find the fourth book in the series. Apparently, the fact that there isn’t a fourth book is my fault. While I have given her the Arilyn books, she is still insistent that there needs to be more Liriel stories.
I agree with her. ;)
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 14:56:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jindael
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I've definitely made larger adaptations, such as when the 3E changes to rules on drow magic completely blew away the underlying premise of my first two Liriel books: her determination to bring her drow magic to the surface. The only reasonable way I could think of to deal with this was to write the rule changes into the plot.
I sincerely hope that you don't feel bad about this, because I found the transition from Liriel's story and the rules changes wonderfully and seamlessly executed. If I didn't know better from reading your posts here, I would have thought that it was orchestrated rather than you dealing with the changes.
On a semi-related note, I got my fiancé to read Liriel’s story, and she burned through all three books in four days, loving every single second of it. She called from the bookstore, furious, wanting to know why she couldn’t find the fourth book in the series. Apparently, the fact that there isn’t a fourth book is my fault. While I have given her the Arilyn books, she is still insistent that there needs to be more Liriel stories.
I agree with her. ;)
Heh. Thanks for the thought, both of you. If it were up to me, there would be a story entitled "Daughter of Darkness" in the pipeline, dealing with the adventures of a kick-ass elven sisterhood, and adding an ironic twist to Liriel's attempts to live under the light of the sun.
But it's not, so there isn't.
Maybe I'll pitch the idea when I'm finished with the Arilyn and Dan book, but there's no sense in suggesting new projects before I turn in the book and the short story (possibly more than one short story)I owe them. |
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monch9
Seeker
Poland
67 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 15:50:53
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
But the moonblade lore has developed a life of its own, and some of the things I'd planned to do with it are no longer possible. I will definitely have to delete an intended subplot. While I'm not going to change Arilyn's relationship with her sword from the path I'd intended to take, I'm going to downplay the lore of moonblades in the overall story.
Elaine,
To add a little something here. Though I haven't been able to get a copy of the Realms of Elves Anthology, I've read from the book club forums that Rich Baker has a story dealing with a Moonblade. So hope this helps.
Monch |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 15:58:28
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quote:
Originally posted by monch9
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
But the moonblade lore has developed a life of its own, and some of the things I'd planned to do with it are no longer possible. I will definitely have to delete an intended subplot. While I'm not going to change Arilyn's relationship with her sword from the path I'd intended to take, I'm going to downplay the lore of moonblades in the overall story.
Elaine,
To add a little something here. Though I haven't been able to get a copy of the Realms of Elves Anthology, I've read from the book club forums that Rich Baker has a story dealing with a Moonblade. So hope this helps.
Monch
Thanks for sharing. I'll have to check it out. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2006 : 17:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
A question: If the swords are so easy to subvert, why hasn't the entire elven nation risen in revolt against a royal family chosen by so fragile and corruptible a method?
Heh. Maybe there's a story hook in there.
I don't know that it's all that easy... We only know of two that it's happened to: the very temporary subversion of Elaith's reawakened moonblade (that short story in Dragon), and the Starym moonblade. One subversion was very momentary, and the other took a deity of corruption to pull off.
I'd imagine that some members of the Eldreth Veluuthra, knowing of Darkmoon's history, could use that as a reason to oppose Amlaruil's rulership of Evermeet... But I'd also imagine that not many members of the Victorious Blade really know Darkmoon's history. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 02:47:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
We only know of two that it's happened to: the very temporary subversion of Elaith's reawakened moonblade (that short story in Dragon)
Was the Craulnober moonblade subverted, or did Elaith simply make that assumption? He felt a sensation of gathering power and heat from the sword, but did he misinterpret what was happening? He never did try to claim the moonblade after its restoration, because he assumed the outcome. Is it possible that he was wrong?
Just before Elaith drew the sword, he and the Lantanner were discussing the problems of testing the effect of the mechanical device. It was established that they really had no way of knowing whether or not the device would worked as intended. It is quite possible that it did not.
At the end of the story, Elaith was temporarily overcome by despair, and he welcomed the thought of death. But when reminded of his responsibilities, he took action that indicated an intention to honor these responsibilities.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?  |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 03:21:03
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My final word on moonblade lore:
The original concept of moonblades, the defining motif in the life of one of my primary characters and the focal point of an ongoing series of novels, has been adapted by game designers and other writers to the point where my original intent (not to mention future plans) are no longer relevant.
According to the game lore and Richard Baker's short story in Realms of the Elves, moonblades can be wielded by gold elves. They can be turned to evil purposes. They have little or nothing to do with issues of royal succession. They are no longer hereditary. The only criteria is "worthiness," which is a vague, catch-all term that could arguably include any good-aligned character. They can be wielded by non-elves. They don't develop a unique character that reflects a family's talents, values, and challenges: they have random and possibly contradictory powers that can be rolled up from tables.
Well, okay. None of this is "wrong," it's just very different from the concept I've been developing over the past fifteen years in a series of books and short stories. But it is what it is. Adapting to changing situations is one of realities of writing in a shared world. Let's move on.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 04:10:43
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You might hate me for asking, but is a question that seems to be hanging out there that I never found an answer for.
Yes I know moonblades could not be weilded by Gold when first presented, did you envision them being weilded by Green?
It strikes me that all elves, except black, were called together to the Elven Court and the warning issued for only Gold Elves. That it follows that at least some Green elves would have been called to the gathering as repersentitives of their clans.
Some believe the moonblade was only useable, in your design, by Silver Elves. Was that your intent?
I do understand your fustration with seeing your concept going in a different direct. While I do not write books for a shared world I do interact in a few and the surprises that occur at times are distressing. Ed expressed surprise at whom the Seventh Sister was so surprise and change of direction clearly not a problem that you alone have faced. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 16 Feb 2006 04:13:20 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 04:53:29
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Sorry, Kentinal, but I'm going to pass on this. See above reference to "final word."
I really, really need some distance from this issue. New topic, anyone?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 05:09:20
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At least you did not say you hate me.
New Topic:
The Tree of Life, the new Elven enclave. Where do you consider good likely places to be selected?
Do you see a mariage for the prince and his short life expectant consort?
Can we expect more about Srar Elves soon from you? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2006 : 12:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Tree of Life, the new Elven enclave. Where do you consider good likely places to be selected?
I was going to write this story for the Realms of Elves anthology, but had to withdraw due to health problems. If time permits and a publishing opportunity arises, I wouldn't mind revisiting this tale. Until then, however, I probably shouldn't speculate. There's always the possibility that this tale will be told by someone else in another book or game product, and I don't want to confuse the matter.
quote:
Do you see a marriage for the prince and his short life expectant consort?
At the end of EVERMEET, they considered themselves to be married.
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Can we expect more about Star Elves soon from you?
"Soon" is a relative term. My next FR book is scheduled for 2008, so anything else would be later than that. |
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Questions for Elaine Cunningham
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